Reducing crime through deterrence: prison time

[alexalex303]

This has been brought up in a lot of different threads, but I think it's time we bring it it's own thread to talk about. The current maximum prison sentence is too short, and it's having a negative impact on the state of the server.

If there are no serious consequences for committing serious crimes, then they will be committed at exaggerated rates. This results in people robbing people in the middle of the street, or even people robbing cops for a bag, because they get a chase and even if they're caught? Release is a Netflix show away. The very exaggerated amount of crime also means that the LSPD is not free to deal with non-emergency stuff like the Impound Lot. @Kai

There is also another problem with having the max prison sentence being so relatively low, in that, someone that commits any felony and then evades, would receive max. time anyway, so he has no further incentive to not commit more crimes in his evasion (such as shoot cops), which results in people shooting a lot more than they should, when realistically, no one would be shooting cops over 3 reckless operation charges.

It was stated multiple times that max. prison time will be increased when DOC settles in as a faction. In my opinion, that has happened. DOC, especially now with the new leadership, is stable, recruiting, and maintaining presence in almost all timezones. 

What's the actual suggestion? Increase the maximum prison time to eight hours. (480 minutes) but no crime sentencing should be changed. That means that no one should be getting the max time, unless they really do commit that many crimes.

For reference: 

Attempted Murder is 150 minutes, Felony Evasion is 75 minutes. Therefore, someone that shot someone else, then evaded in a car, would receive a sentence of 225 minutes. (105 minutes over our current max)

Armed Robbery is 105 minutes, Felony Evasion is 75 minutes. Therefore, someone that robbed someone with the use of a gun, then evaded in a car, would receive a sentence of 180 minutes. (60 minutes over our current max)

There will be an increase of about an hour for most reasonable criminals, however those that commit a lot more crimes before getting arrested will get a longer sentence, as it should be. Under the old system, someone that killed 10 cops would get the same sentence as someone that robbed a store and evaded, because of the relatively low max. sentence.

Edited April 16, 2019 by alexalex303

[cyruss613]

OK while i agree that maybe the prison time and sentencing needs work+1.... but 8 hours (480mins) is WAY too extreme -1. I could see some people leaving town all together to avoid that stretch.

[Marca]

I agree with this, prison times are too low and as a result, people just keep committing crimes that no criminal would IRL (like shooting cops because they got a reckless driving charge). People that have VIP even get 25% less jail time, which is pretty useful.

But spending 8 hours ingame can be a bit tiring. I think 25% of a players jail time could be served while they're offline, but at a 4x slower time. So if someone is jailed for 2 hours, they can go offline and return in 4 hours and serve the remaining 1hour and 30minutes. With VIP, their sentence is basically reduced to 50% without them needing to play the game. I feel like it's a healthy tradeoff and can give people some breathing room in case they manage to get 8 hours.

[D133790]

Maybe increase the prison time, but add in ways for people to reduce their prison time by doing jobs inside prison or just simply RPing with others instead of standing AFK, so basically long as their character is on the move instead of standing idle their time will reduce faster.  

Edited April 16, 2019 by D133790

[JakeInnit_]

8 hours is a long time to AFK. There is literally fuck all prison RP. 

[Kai]

+1 to the increase but 8 hours is maybe a bit much, at least for now, even if it is only for those who commit more serious crimes. 

My only worry is although DOC is settled as a faction, prison RP is still relatively quiet with it usually ending in punching DM matches.  Quite often DOC guards dont RP with prisoners at all, apart from Jack. 

I do agree with it being increased though, maybe more to a max of 4-5 hours for serious crimes.

[djnugget]

Also being one of the people who has mentioned this is other threads im glad to see it getting its own space

 

however the point stands that the prison system is horrendous. The fact it is already so long and boring turns people too crime, id rather kill and run from cops to avoid spending 25 minutes in there nevermind 8 freaking hours. Than to properly RP an arrest.

 

When i first joined i was involved in some splendid RP with a couple coppers and even a rookie ride along when i was caught stealing. As a first offender and a normally upstanding citizen i was treated no differently and given almost the max time in prison and it nearly killed me IRL 

 

It made me a fully fledged crim who will do whatever it takes to avoid going back to that hellhole.

 

I get prison is a punishment but it should be IC punishing my guy not IRL punishing me especially if its a legit RP situation thats put me there. 

 

 

[Hoza]

8 hours is way too much, unless you make that you could do something in there. Even a poker table would do the thing. Make some jobs there. Another idea with jobs, let the prisoners go out of prison, but they have to work specific job or something. Also you're saying about not everyone getting 8 hours as depends on how many charges you get which would be unfair as cops give out random charges anyway.

[Pvle]

8hours in prison just for afk? no thanks

-1

[NoobDude]

I like the idea of increasing prison time but in my opinion 8-hrs is way too much. Prison jobs such as serving food, cleaning floors (move from a checkpoint to another), gardening etc would be great. Right now there is no prison RP at all. Unless we increase prison rp, idling for such a long time inside prison is a waste.

[hashishas]

8hours in prison is nonsense since prison is afk simulator, if there would be anything to do for example reduce your prison time with some prison rp(prison currience and etc.) that would be alright but now nonsense.

[JayGamble]

-1

I think suggesting such a massive increase in sentencing without anything to fill the current void that is "prison time" is incredibly irresponsible. DOC is still a minimalist faction, without a lot of the features initially mentioned. Things have already been made more difficult for your average criminal with licensing and such. Advocating that one spend a full "work day" inside prison, with very little to offer in that span of those hours is just very unreasonable to me. This isn't coming from the perspective of "oh I am a criminal", most will tell you prison still feels like an ooc punishment (most people simply afk prison, as there is no real consistent rp offered), especially with how often "random" charges are acquired. I think this change doesn't really make sense on any level, to the extent it's been suggested; I think more depth is required of prison before we get there.

[alexalex303]

26 minutes ago, JayGamble said:

-1

I think suggesting such a massive increase in sentencing without anything to fill the current void that is "prison time" is incredibly irresponsible. DOC is still a minimalist faction, without a lot of the features initially mentioned. Things have already been made more difficult for your average criminal with licensing and such. Advocating that one spend a full "work day" inside prison, with very little to offer in that span of those hours is just very unreasonable to me. This isn't coming from the perspective of "oh I am a criminal", most will tell you prison still feels like an ooc punishment (most people simply afk prison, as there is no real consistent rp offered), especially with how often "random" charges are acquired. I think this change doesn't really make sense on any level, to the extent it's been suggested; I think more depth is required of prison before we get there.

How do you propose consistent RP will form around prison when most people sit there for an hour and change? (with VIP).

Increasing prison sentences will add population, and with it, roleplaying opportunities. I also refuse to believe that most people afk prison, with how often people attempt and succeed prison breaks, prison smuggling, and other prison related activities.

[DaniDota]

As someone who is in prison quite a lot, there is always something to do (I barely afk in there, maybe for 5 to 10 minutes at max).

You can roleplay with guards, I've had friends fly into the yard and RP with me there, which results in a huge lockdown which is always fun to RP.

I've had some insanely fun roleplay with Stephen Black, Joe, CJ & some other CO's.

Yes.. there could be more activities like tiny games (think darts 'n that). But overall, prison time should be increased, making it 3.5hrs or 4 for my part, but lower the sentences for things like reckless driving 'n that. Because getting 4 hours for reckless driving is plain on stupid.

 

+1 in general though

[krillinas]

41 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

How do you propose consistent RP will form around prison when most people sit there for an hour and change? (with VIP).

Increasing prison sentences will add population, and with it, roleplaying opportunities. I also refuse to believe that most people afk prison, with how often people attempt and succeed prison breaks, prison smuggling, and other prison related activities.

When the last time you were in prison? At the moment prison is more like OOC punishment, more than 3hours would be ridiculous to ask. But i agree that  sentencing times needs work. For example you if u commit assault crime it doesn't matter if you surrender easily and comply or you just never surrender and try to shoot cop it would  make max sentence(2h). 

[Pvle]

46 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

How do you propose consistent RP will form around prison when most people sit there for an hour and change? (with VIP).

Increasing prison sentences will add population, and with it, roleplaying opportunities. I also refuse to believe that most people afk prison, with how often people attempt and succeed prison breaks, prison smuggling, and other prison related activities.

all the time when im in prison guards just farming salary and do nothing yesterday i try to do something they just tase me and runs away locking doors

[DaniDota]

Just now, Pvle said:

all the time when im in prison guards just farming salary and do nothing yesterday i try to do something they just tase me and runs away locking doors

That's kind of weird, I've never had such an experience with the guards. They always try to RP scenarios.

If you do something absurd as trying to kill them with your fists, that's obviously not going to be RP'd as that's just plain stupid (not saying you did this just giving an example).

But overall, prison guards are solid people to RP with. Just don't take it out of hand and it'll be a fun time regardless.

[ryzenje]

-1

[Daniel_Underwood]

-1 there's no rp in prison except for fighting and sitting there afk for 8 hours wouldn't be great, no thanks

[DaniDota]

26 minutes ago, Daniel_Underwood said:

-1 there's no rp in prison except for fighting and sitting there afk for 8 hours wouldn't be great, no thanks

Don't agree. I've had a lot of fun RP in prison. Doesn't contain fighting most of the time. 

[Eshu]

-1 If there was a big prison with guards, movies, games, maybe a sort of mini game where prisons could break out, meal time this could be a neat concept but locking someone in a little room for 8 hours, that's not what people play video games for.  

[MusketDeezNuts]

Bump it up to 24 hours and form gangs in prison. 

[MrSilky]

-1 for now.

Until there is more scripted abilities in DOC and roleplay opportunities, it's essentially an Admin punishment for an IC infraction. There needs to be something for prisoners to do while in jail. Right now, it is simply an AFK pool of people watching Netflix.

[DiCarlo]

-1

I Strongly disagree with a lot of these points. Although I agree that there are some crimes that should carry a long time like mass murder or terrorism anything over 8 hours should only be able to be given to someone by a court appointed system. If the max time is raised to 8 hours you will have cops (not all) but some who will just stack charges on people to see how long they can put them away for.

The reason most crims run away is because of how high the times are for smaller crimes such as a robbery (105 minutes) If you are already going away fro 105 minutes why not just run and murder whoever cause 120 is the max. If however you lowered armed robbery to say 20 minutes and then felony evasion was another 40 on top of that, someone is more lily to be like "well if i run im gonna get triple the time so i might as well compley"

These are not the time im suggesting these crimes be it is just an example. My point is when all crimes carry an almost max jail time of close to 2 hours you might as well go all out and do whatever you can to get away.

Not to mention the fact that there is nothing to do at all once you are in jail and just have to AFK for 2 hours. If there were things to do like jobs to lower your time or if like on other servers you could log out and the time still continues then high times wouldn't be so bad cause at least you have something to do while you wait.

Edited April 16, 2019 by DiCarlo

[Scott Cleverley]

6 hours ago, Kai said:

+1 to the increase but 8 hours is maybe a bit much, at least for now, even if it is only for those who commit more serious crimes. 

My only worry is although DOC is settled as a faction, prison RP is still relatively quiet with it usually ending in punching DM matches.  Quite often DOC guards dont RP with prisoners at all, apart from Jack. 

I do agree with it being increased though, maybe more to a max of 4-5 hours for serious crimes.

I worked at DOC it's really draining to rp all the time with inmates when they talk shit most of the time to your face, attack you for no reason since there's no punishment for it, oh yeah we will drag you to solitary that you could afk stay there doing nothing. Most of my experience entering cells would be instantly getting jumped on.

Also prison shouldn't be fun, prison is not fun IRL, it's not vacation it's a punishment so to whoever.

4 hours ago, Pvle said:

all the time when im in prison guards just farming salary and do nothing yesterday i try to do something they just tase me and runs away locking doors

And you sir, you're just problem yourself, attempting to attack a officer it's just low rp standarts, what kind of rp you expect to get when attempting to attack them? 
I would even consider it FEAR RP since you're trying to jump on 2 officers who have tasers out, not even caring that your sentence will increase and so on for no valid reason. And then you keep crying about DOC rp while you show low rp, dont you see problem here? 

That's the main point why I left DOC in the first place, it's just DOC staff are prisoners themselves, inmates don't want to rp anything besides punching you and once you taze them (since the protocol of DOC states that you must have tazer at hand all the time you enter cells) people just start crying about it.

 

Edited April 16, 2019 by Scott Cleverley