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alexalex303

Reducing crime through deterrence: prison time

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It would be irresponsible to increase these times to such an extent without the addition of two things. Mini games within the prison and two a judicial system and bail system that would be able to create a trial process that these people can have a fair chance in a court of law to defend their side of the story. This would increase rp on both sides of the table and also give more rp jobs. So yes I do think there should be an increase in prison times. However, there are two many things that need to be sorted and added before this can come to reality 

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I agree there is a lot that needs done to facilitate the increase in jtime, a court system would be good also, but its hard to plea innocent to shooting a cop or murder when there is no way for dectectives to collect ballistics and evidence beyond /me and /do, as rules state you cant lie in a /do but it happens all the time.

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15 hours ago, alexalex303 said:

This has been brought up in a lot of different threads, but I think it's time we bring it it's own thread to talk about. The current maximum prison sentence is too short, and it's having a negative impact on the state of the server.

If there are no serious consequences for committing serious crimes, then they will be committed at exaggerated rates. This results in people robbing people in the middle of the street, or even people robbing cops for a bag, because they get a chase and even if they're caught? Release is a Netflix show away. The very exaggerated amount of crime also means that the LSPD is not free to deal with non-emergency stuff like the Impound Lot. @Kai

There is also another problem with having the max prison sentence being so relatively low, in that, someone that commits any felony and then evades, would receive max. time anyway, so he has no further incentive to not commit more crimes in his evasion (such as shoot cops), which results in people shooting a lot more than they should, when realistically, no one would be shooting cops over 3 reckless operation charges.

It was stated multiple times that max. prison time will be increased when DOC settles in as a faction. In my opinion, that has happened. DOC, especially now with the new leadership, is stable, recruiting, and maintaining presence in almost all timezones. 

What's the actual suggestion? Increase the maximum prison time to eight hours. (480 minutes) but no crime sentencing should be changed. That means that no one should be getting the max time, unless they really do commit that many crimes.

For reference: 

Attempted Murder is 150 minutes, Felony Evasion is 75 minutes. Therefore, someone that shot someone else, then evaded in a car, would receive a sentence of 225 minutes. (105 minutes over our current max)

Armed Robbery is 105 minutes, Felony Evasion is 75 minutes. Therefore, someone that robbed someone with the use of a gun, then evaded in a car, would receive a sentence of 180 minutes. (60 minutes over our current max)

There will be an increase of about an hour for most reasonable criminals, however those that commit a lot more crimes before getting arrested will get a longer sentence, as it should be. Under the old system, someone that killed 10 cops would get the same sentence as someone that robbed a store and evaded, because of the relatively low max. sentence.

I support more prison time, DOC has been asking forever to be able to add/deduct a portion of time to inmates who constantly fight with no result except go to doc to rinse and repeat. If we were able to add time for bad behaviour or deduct time for good behaviour lets say example 25-40 percent, it would give DOC more power to do their job and have some more realism. Right now alot of inmates just fight and laugh at the fact they go solitary with no extra time or punishment. But yeah, more time and ability to add time for fighting in prison would be fantastic. Longer sentences when we get the new prison, ability for inmates to do a job that pays ten percent of what jobs do outside, and the ability for doc memebrs to add/deduct time, stop inmates from working if they misbehave would be in a fully ideal world...but yeah.

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-1 I feel like OP has very weak points. In  my opinion; the best way to reduce crime would be to present more attractive opportunities. Currently, the only ways to make any actual money are by working for the government, and by committing crime and joining a gang. The "normal" jobs are godawful and pointless as they pay almost nothing. The "government" jobs are boring and smothering, with your "leaders" breathing down your neck constantly. The "Criminal" jobs are fun and unique. How about we either make government jobs more relaxed, or pay more for normal jobs? That would significantly reduce crime rates.

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Big -1 , why everyone wants to make criminal RP harder I don't understand , maybe remove criminal gangs better and make the server cops and civilians , also 8 hours in prison is long time , and there is no RP in prison , everyone goes AFK and if you try to RP fighting guards or something in first 5 minutes they will just put you in private solitary and bye bye nothing to do now

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On 4/16/2019 at 12:44 AM, alexalex303 said:

This has been brought up in a lot of different threads, but I think it's time we bring it it's own thread to talk about. The current maximum prison sentence is too short, and it's having a negative impact on the state of the server.

If there are no serious consequences for committing serious crimes, then they will be committed at exaggerated rates. This results in people robbing people in the middle of the street, or even people robbing cops for a bag, because they get a chase and even if they're caught? Release is a Netflix show away. The very exaggerated amount of crime also means that the LSPD is not free to deal with non-emergency stuff like the Impound Lot. @Kai

There is also another problem with having the max prison sentence being so relatively low, in that, someone that commits any felony and then evades, would receive max. time anyway, so he has no further incentive to not commit more crimes in his evasion (such as shoot cops), which results in people shooting a lot more than they should, when realistically, no one would be shooting cops over 3 reckless operation charges.

It was stated multiple times that max. prison time will be increased when DOC settles in as a faction. In my opinion, that has happened. DOC, especially now with the new leadership, is stable, recruiting, and maintaining presence in almost all timezones. 

What's the actual suggestion? Increase the maximum prison time to eight hours. (480 minutes) but no crime sentencing should be changed. That means that no one should be getting the max time, unless they really do commit that many crimes.

For reference: 

Attempted Murder is 150 minutes, Felony Evasion is 75 minutes. Therefore, someone that shot someone else, then evaded in a car, would receive a sentence of 225 minutes. (105 minutes over our current max)

Armed Robbery is 105 minutes, Felony Evasion is 75 minutes. Therefore, someone that robbed someone with the use of a gun, then evaded in a car, would receive a sentence of 180 minutes. (60 minutes over our current max)

There will be an increase of about an hour for most reasonable criminals, however those that commit a lot more crimes before getting arrested will get a longer sentence, as it should be. Under the old system, someone that killed 10 cops would get the same sentence as someone that robbed a store and evaded, because of the relatively low max. sentence.

I strongly disagree with this thread. If we're gonna basically remove criminal RP, may as well remove police RP, too.

-1

Edited by Sauer Stein
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Given current prison circumstances I have to say -1

 

If they added more activities in prison, such as the ability to work off time, or even just work crappy jobs that pay like 1/4 compared to normal jobs, just anything really to make you want to be active in prison. (With the new hunger and thirst system for example they could make being a cafeteria cook a thing) I honestly don't think an 8 hour sentence would be overly extreme for someone who say killed a government employee and then engaged in reckless evading and destruction of government property and then had several other charges like assault with a deadly weapon, but I also think someone who gets arrested for armed robbery should get a small sentence in comparison, such as 1 and a half hours.

 

Essentially if there were activities that anybody could engage in to occupy their time then not only would I think this was an okay idea, I would actually recommend it, but given what prison is at this point in time I think there's no real point in sentencing someone for so long just to force them to AFK longer than they already do.

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The two hour limit for prison is perfectly acceptable when it comes to misdemeanors and the lesser felonies. No one wants to go to prison for 4 hours because you are a persistent speeder.

However, I do seriously think that the developers should look at adding a higher limit to 5-6 hours if you have a serious felony pending on your character. I don't think we should just lock people away but there is less consequence of being caught so criminals are more brazen with their activities AND the investigation bureau in the PD are basically cucked in their duties because they spend longer building a case on someone than a person gets!

For example, the Penal Code stipulates if you commit murder, your sentence is 300 minutes. That's 5 hours, but because of the cap, you'll only serve 2 at max.

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On 4/16/2019 at 4:13 AM, JayGamble said:

-1

I think suggesting such a massive increase in sentencing without anything to fill the current void that is "prison time" is incredibly irresponsible. DOC is still a minimalist faction, without a lot of the features initially mentioned. Things have already been made more difficult for your average criminal with licensing and such. Advocating that one spend a full "work day" inside prison, with very little to offer in that span of those hours is just very unreasonable to me. This isn't coming from the perspective of "oh I am a criminal", most will tell you prison still feels like an ooc punishment (most people simply afk prison, as there is no real consistent rp offered), especially with how often "random" charges are acquired. I think this change doesn't really make sense on any level, to the extent it's been suggested; I think more depth is required of prison before we get there.

^and the sentencing/charge system needs a complete overhaul. With that being said, sentencing makes no sense and modifications could appease the qualms cited by the OP. Max time for reckless driving and murder for example makes no sense and feels ridiculous. The fines and tickets are a massive deterrent alone as it stands - ask any successful criminal. 

There is a lot of added time in the form of RP with cops/prison guards and travel time. The punishment in fines/max time hits pretty hard OOCly sometimes. Losing an entire day or possibly more is not okay, unless a more detailed suggestion remedies such an issue. 

-1

Edited by Vito_Vanucci
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How about if a crime is committed against a government employee, the max jail time would be ignored for those crimes? Committing a crime against a cop/medic then would be faced with very harsh consequences and would make people think twice. It's kind of stupid that people keep attacking cops while they have a warrant for not paying their tickets, which is 15 minutes in jail. No criminal with common sense would attack a cop and risk life in jail for a minor thing like that, but unfortunately LS lacks a lot of common sense.

Basically if you keep being aggressive against gov. workers, you'll get the right sort of punishment later on. 

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Haven't played on this server yet, but from my experience on SAMP rp servers, the current jail time is more than enough, if not too much IMO. It would surely lower crime rates, but it would also demotivate players from playing since a lot of us have got real life jobs and sitting a ridiculous amount of time in jail, in a game which is meant to relieve some real-life stress, will just be a no-go for most players. After all buddy \/

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1 hour ago, Marca said:

How about if a crime is committed against a government employee, the max jail time would be ignored for those crimes? Committing a crime against a cop/medic then would be faced with very harsh consequences and would make people think twice. It's kind of stupid that people keep attacking cops while they have a warrant for not paying their tickets, which is 15 minutes in jail. No criminal with common sense would attack a cop and risk life in jail for a minor thing like that, but unfortunately LS lacks a lot of common sense.

Basically if you keep being aggressive against gov. workers, you'll get the right sort of punishment later on. 

That could be a good compromise. Nice idea.

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Personally I only support the increase of prison times in the event that prison itself goes through some changes. Allow for tasks to reduce the time you need to serve, as others have suggested. Furthermore change the system from requiring you to be online and active - prison is not supposed to be OOC punishment.

Assuming the above ideas were implemented, have different maximum sentences based on the classification of the most severe crime committed. For misdemeanours you should have a maximum time of 90 minutes. If you have committed any felonies then your maximum sentence goes up to 180 minutes, then for serious felonies 300 minutes.

 

Ensure the Penal Codes contain all necessary information. Add in some crimes such as littering, public intoxication, and assault with bodily fluids. Maybe separate murder into 1st and 2nd degree murder. Have the Penal Codes scripted in and allow modification from the panel. Allow charges to be selected in-game and for the total fine and punishment to be added up automatically.

 

Lastly, if a judicial system does end up being implemented then they should be able to sentence criminals for much longer than what the police are able to do. If criminals were to request bail and a trial rather than going to prison immediately then they run the risk of spending more time in prison if they lose. Additionally, police detectives would be able to open court cases to try and have suspects put away for longer.

Edited by Linden
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@alexalex303 You my friend are 100% bugging with increasing jail time. 2 Hours is more than enough.

There is no way that the majority of us would allow such thing to happen when you corrupt feds are doing a madness 24/7 giving people false charges and abusing power and forcing people to remain IC when clearly  even tho 60% of you feds conjure nonsense from OOC issues.

Bun that and implement a judicial system instead

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A lot of people don't have enough time to afk in jail for 4-8 hours. (I for example have a school to attend and i usually get home at 5pm)
Even afking for 2 hours is cancer for me cause GTAV takes a lot of resources to run and I can't really do anything else while I'm stuck in jail.
-1

Edited by xCKube
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