Reducing crime through deterrence: prison time

[Drizzy.]

14 minutes ago, xCKube said:

A lot of people don't have enough time to afk in jail for 4-8 hours. (I for example have a school to attend and i usually get home at 5pm)
Even afking for 2 hours is cancer for me cause GTAV takes a lot of resources to run and I can't really do anything else while I'm stuck in jail.
-1

Thing is a new prison is being developed with actual things to do while in prison rather than it be an afk activity

[xCKube]

2 minutes ago, DrizzyDre said:

Thing is a new prison is being developed with actual things to do while in prison rather than it be an afk activity

It can work with 2 hours but i would like to see how you are going to keep people active in the prison for 4-8 hours.
Eventually the activities you can do inside the prison will run out and it will get repetitive.

[TheCanadian]

7 hours ago, Marca said:

How about if a crime is committed against a government employee, the max jail time would be ignored for those crimes? Committing a crime against a cop/medic then would be faced with very harsh consequences and would make people think twice. It's kind of stupid that people keep attacking cops while they have a warrant for not paying their tickets, which is 15 minutes in jail. No criminal with common sense would attack a cop and risk life in jail for a minor thing like that, but unfortunately LS lacks a lot of common sense.

The thing is, this sounds good in practice but will lead to alot of people having wasted time with no way to counter the charges ICly, anyone who has been in a big gang knows of someone who has been charged or has been charged themselves wrongfully, especially when it comes to shootouts with police many get charged with no confirmation of ID from the police. Hell, i have been charged for a shootout that happened when i was off radio and just offroading in my trophy truck i got 3 charges kidnapping or murder of a government official. The only solution to this is IA reports in hopes to get financial compensation, but when you are talking about jail time sure it can be nice to get a lump of cash when wrongfully sentence. However when something is implemented OOCly to change the way sentencing works and you would have to sit in there for 4-8 hours at the end of the day it is still time wasted, and you are not getting that time back.

They need to add a lot of stuff to do in prison before the max. time is increased and interaction with the guards and prisoners has to be pushed more to promote RP in prison. It is dubbed AFK simulator for a reason, you get locked in and the guards throw away the key. Never interacting with you again, it turns into a alt-tab netflix or fist fight shit show. With friends sure it can be fun, just chatting. But do that for 6-8 hours? i dont think so.

[ImSuspensee]

Everyone is complaining about the jobs getting repetitive... the point of this is to make people not go to prison as often. If there is a prison update with stuff to do then I'd support the change.

[Linden]

11 minutes ago, ImSuspensee said:

Everyone is complaining about the jobs getting repetitive... the point of this is to make people not go to prison as often. If there is a prison update with stuff to do then I'd support the change.

Increasing the times won't make people not commit crime, they will just work harder to get away. Results in more people shooting you.

Then maybe quitting because they have to actively sit in prison for 8 hours, unable to even AFK.

Edited April 27, 2019 by Linden

[alexalex303]

6 minutes ago, Linden said:

Increasing the times won't make people not commit crime, they will just work harder to get away. Results in more people shooting you.

Then maybe quitting because they have to actively sit in prison for 8 hours, unable to even AFK.

[citation needed]

If someone is evading and they will just get an hour sentence for it, they will not shoot because they know they might get eight instead. 

It will reduce people shooting, until they get to the much bigger cap of eight hours, and then they will start shooting again.

[Linden]

6 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

[citation needed]

If someone is evading and they will just get an hour sentence for it, they will not shoot because they know they might get eight instead. 

It will reduce people shooting, until they get to the much bigger cap of eight hours, and then they will start shooting again.

Unfortunately spent ~6 years roleplaying as a cop on SARP/NGRP which entailed getting shot because you wanted to pull somebody over for reckless driving. Generally people won't stop at evading because they don't want that hour in prison. If, as I said before, prison weren't OOC punishment that requires you to sit there doing nothing then people wouldn't be so opposed to it.

People generally don't roleplay fear of the consequences of breaking the law and instead cry that police are overpowered. Feel free to read all my posts on LSPD related threads thus far, I am biased towards supporting the lawful side of roleplay; I just don't believe that spending a full work day standing in prison watching Netflix is a good suggestion.

Edited April 27, 2019 by Linden

[iAchieve]

In the current state of the DOC, this is a big -1 from me. Today, on my criminal alt, which I don't play often, I attempted to RP a malfunctioning toilet within one of the cells I was locked in. I was told "You better not try to clog it up with toilet paper next time." I cannot image spending longer than two hours in this type of place. My constant calls for a guard so I can RP something with them are consistently ignored. As I said, I don't really play a criminal character, but raising the maximum time even more is absolutely insane in my eyes. 

[Spergburger]

With the way prison RP is currently and the lack of any sort of judicial system I'd have to say -1 for now. The most I could see it reasonably being increased to as of now is 3 hours, maybe 4 tops. Looking at things in the long term, I could see increasing jail time to 8+ hours once there's more to do in a prison and there's been a justice system worked out. Players could create gangs in prison and have quality RP that can keep them occupied for hours, but due to the currently low amount of hours a lot of people would rather just watch Netflix or something since there's either not much to do, or not enough time to really engage in some good RP, since it'll be cut short within 2 hours. It'd also be unfair to have people imprisoned for hours and hours when there's no court system or legal system, since players can't really defend themselves from being wrongfully charged or imprisoned, their only option is to get reimbursed long afterwards by filling out an IA report which may not even end up helping them. I played back when we had the 10 hour prison time before DOC was implemented and it was terrible. You were essentially getting an OOC punishment, except you had to still "play" the game to serve it, you couldn't do something else like you can with an extended kick or short ban. I'd hate to see things go back to that. There needs to be a development focus on helping DOC get to where it needs to be before a change like this can really be discussed, but I think an increase to 3 hours could be a solid short term solution. It'd help prevent people from serving max time over relatively minor crimes, and would hopefully prevent every traffic stop and arrest from turning in to a shootout. This could potentially provide better RP on the server, and the added time could be used to gauge how much the max sentence should be increased to in the future.

[CaesarSeizure]

+1 While 8 hours sounds like a lot, it sounds like a good end target.

What needs to be done is improved RP in prisons (from what i understand there is a lack of it), more activities or something, just so you dont have to spend multiple hours afk.

But i do think big punishments would be good. This might not discourage serious offenders from committing crimes, but might decrease the random robbing of people on the streets. the argument that people will rather quit the server than do time, shows that the current punishment system is not enough, as consequences should matter.

[alexalex303]

2 hours ago, CaesarSeizure said:

+1 While 8 hours sounds like a lot, it sounds like a good end target.

What needs to be done is improved RP in prisons (from what i understand there is a lack of it), more activities or something, just so you dont have to spend multiple hours afk.

But i do think big punishments would be good. This might not discourage serious offenders from committing crimes, but might decrease the random robbing of people on the streets. the argument that people will rather quit the server than do time, shows that the current punishment system is not enough, as consequences should matter.

DOC has been recruiting and generally been exceptionally active recently, I believe I've seen them field 12+ officers in certain timezones. There is a new prison interior as well, which is amazing and full of roleplaying opportunities for those that want them. I do not think that there is a lack of it, if you want it to happen, it just won't be spoon-fed.

[CaesarSeizure]

1 minute ago, alexalex303 said:

DOC has been recruiting and generally been exceptionally active recently, I believe I've seen them field 12+ officers in certain timezones. There is a new prison interior as well, which is amazing and full of roleplaying opportunities for those that want them. I do not think that there is a lack of it, if you want it to happen, it just won't be spoon-fed.

Well a lot of the comments are a bit older, so was kind of going off of them, as i haven't been in prison before or after the changes.

[DGanja]

I mean I play in increments of usually like 4 hours so this would take me 2 days to fix unless I'm on my days off. I feel like the over exaggeration of people wanting this, vs the people that would probably just quit wouldn't be worth it. This would probably create even less rp between cops and civilians now too since everyone would flee or try their best to win

[John_MacAleese]

+1 As there should be a real consequence to the action your character does

 

[Astrox]

I am happily +1'ing the suggestion, however not because it's a crime deterrent, because it's a consequence.

Right now, the only way to cure the issue with crime is through the rules, through restrictions to what gangs can and can't do.

 

[gyrhnr]

 

Make PD complaints a forum topic viewable by everyone and than I'll give it a +1.

For now I think some people might be uncertain on how PD complaints are dealth with.

 

[LongFist]

-1 what about people that have actual jobs irl?

[DGanja]

5 minutes ago, LongFist said:

-1 what about people that have actual jobs irl?

Yeah I'm gone if they change it. Not gonna be working up to 12 hours to come home and game but have to "rp" being in jail for 8 hours lmao

Edited May 23, 2019 by DGanja

[MSJC]

I think they should just have the same times with a 25% but you can't AFK. Also add in activities that reduces their time, be that crafting goods for the outside world or janitorial work.

[alexalex303]

1 hour ago, MSJC said:

I think they should just have the same times with a 25% but you can't AFK. Also add in activities that reduces their time, be that crafting goods for the outside world or janitorial work.

How much shorter can you make an hour sentence?

[MSJC]

1 minute ago, alexalex303 said:

How much shorter can you make an hour sentence?

My bad i mean a 25% increase on current sentences. But then again i have never been to prison so i don't know what the RP is like.

If i miss understand your question i appologise. The decrease in sentence time could stop at 1 hour and then instead of removing time it will remove money owed for speeding tickets.

[Astrox]

Honestly,

Every prison sentence should be what it is in real life, but with years converted to hours.

GTA would be something like 1 hour

Whereas murder would be something like 25 hours

 

HOWEVER

This shouldn't be a thing until the judicial system is launched, and that's being worked on.

[CaesarSeizure]

Everyone saying they don't have time to spend in jail, but have plenty of time to harass other players.

What if i have an hour trying to make some money, only to be interrupted by someone robbing, kidnapping, etc. me reducing the time i have for activities i want by causing me to spend time being robbed, interacting with PD (cause cmon RP is RP) or going to MD after potentially getting killed, which leads to me having to go rebuy equipment, avoid picking my car up etc etc etc.

Why do i have to waste MY time just because you feel that you can't waste YOURS.

like that old saying goes - "don't do the crime, if you cant do the time"

 

Edit. Or if time is too much, have fines for crimes that would act as deterence. I dont know how much the current fines are, but if they were more severe people might spend more time on other activities rather than just constantly robbing people for a few items.

edi2. So just checked on the gov website that the fine for armed robbery (which is most common) is $2k. Most of the time, the items taken off of someone will exceed that value so robbing someone then paying the fine is likely to still be profitable - which it shouldn't.

Edited May 24, 2019 by CaesarSeizure
improve suggestion

[LongFist]

1 hour ago, CaesarSeizure said:

Everyone saying they don't have time to spend in jail, but have plenty of time to harass other players.

What if i have an hour trying to make some money, only to be interrupted by someone robbing, kidnapping, etc. me reducing the time i have for activities i want by causing me to spend time being robbed, interacting with PD (cause cmon RP is RP) or going to MD after potentially getting killed, which leads to me having to go rebuy equipment, avoid picking my car up etc etc etc.

Why do i have to waste MY time just because you feel that you can't waste YOURS.

like that old saying goes - "don't do the crime, if you cant do the time"

 

Edit. Or if time is too much, have fines for crimes that would act as deterence. I dont know how much the current fines are, but if they were more severe people might spend more time on other activities rather than just constantly robbing people for a few items.

edi2. So just checked on the gov website that the fine for armed robbery (which is most common) is $2k. Most of the time, the items taken off of someone will exceed that value so robbing someone then paying the fine is likely to still be profitable - which it shouldn't.

Tough shit that at the end of thr day this is still a game if you dont want to be robbed dont be in a gang

[CaesarSeizure]

9 minutes ago, LongFist said:

Tough shit that at the end of thr day this is still a game if you dont want to be robbed dont be in a gang

uhm im not in a gang?