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alexalex303

Reducing crime through deterrence: prison time

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I can see both sides of this, yes there isn't much happening in the prison, it was the original focus of the DOC to create RP for criminals inside, but at the same time, criminals need to be creating rp for the DOC workers and for other criminals, as I have said in multiple other posts.

Government faction workers are not here to entertain you, we are all here playing a game, some like the gta online mentality others don't, I personally would much rather have a traffic stop, chat to someone get some rp, then move on, I have minimal desire to drive to a drug lab and get into a shoot out all the time. 

So, Prison needs rp options, well RP is limited by your imagination, get in there, play dice, go outside rp with each other, find a new boyfriend... all valid options that don't need scripting.

Prison guards afking on duty, then report them as you would anyone else.

Scripting, yes add some jobs inside the prison that if you complete a task that takes 5 mins of active moving and collecting objects dropping them off, then it knocks 10minutes off your sentence allowing you to essentially cut your jail time into 1/3 of the sentenced time, should you actually want to do the work and rp with people. Create "cigarettes" that would be a tradable currency inside the prison, earned by completing tasks. The cigarettes would be able to be traded between players as if its cash. The cigarettes could be traded to prison guards ( a blue triangle at the convection shop) for time served 1 cig = 1min... completing a task that if focused takes 10mins yields 30 cigs. For those that link to gamble setup one of the tables to allow gambling of cigs (jtime) where players can gamble their earned cigarettes in hopes of winning more.

But if you find prison boring, then create RP inside it. There is absolutely nothing stopping you from RPing with each other, your gang affiliations etc.... hell I don't know DOC policies but im sure you can have visitors under supervision.

RP is limited by a players imagination, I personally have spent 3 hours rping with 5 people, and not one of us used a script or /anim during it, and we all had a blast. Use this as a chance to write a story, sit your character down, write a note to your long lost dead spouse... or your daughter... anything is possible, it is only yourself to blame if you cant find something to RP in prison. I have never afk'd a jail sentence, and well I was jailed before DOC was even a thing.

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1 hour ago, DiCarlo said:

-1

I Strongly disagree with a lot of these points. Although I agree that there are some crimes that should carry a long time like mass murder or terorism anything over 8 hours should only be able to be given to someone by a court appointed system. If the max time is raised to 8 hours you will have cops (not all) but some who will just stack charges on people to see how long they can put them away for. 

The reason most crims run away is because of how high the times are for smaller crimes such as a robery (105 minutes) If you are already going away fro 105 minutes why not just run and murder who ever cause 120 is the max. If however you lowered armed robbery to say 20 minutes and then felnoy evasion was another 40 ontop of that, someone is more lily to be like "well if i run im gonna get tripple the time so i might as well compley" 

These are not the time im suggesting these crimes be it is just an example. My point is when all crimes carry an almost max jail time of close to 2 hours you might as well go all out and do whatever you can to get away. 

Not to mention the fact that there is nothing to do at all once you are in jail and just have to AFK for 2 hours. If there were things to do like jobs to lower your time or if like on other servers you could log out and the time still continues then high times wouldnt be so bad cause at least you have something to do while you wait. 

first issue with this logic, is that people don't commit petty crimes, there are a TON of them that hold very low jail time, see the penal code https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qMm9u2Tl59RBpNyNSA88G7WYPFwiOgzXqL-1cWgAHEc/edit#gid=123845845

Problem is that most people play like this is GTA online. 

I can assure you if you shot at anyone in real life the judge / jury and lawyers are going to hammer you with attempted murder (assuming you didn't kill em) they are going to get you with aggrevated assault, brandishing a firearm, unlicensed possession of a firearm... if you leave the scene, felony evasion, if you cause a pursuit... felony evading, reckless operation, felony public endangerment, at the minimum,

god forbid you shoot at a cop and then run..
Attempted murder of a LEO
Felony Evaision
Felony Public Endangerment
Unlawful discharge of a firearm
Brandishing a firearm
Reckless Operation of a road vehicle
Assault with a deadly weapon (your car is a deadly weapon)
Resisting Arrest

Those are the ones on the top off my head.... these in real life in the usa would = death penalty where possible if not its 25-life with no chance of parole. So you complain about people getting max time, well dont be "gangbangers" be citizens, i can assure you my criminal was as hard as anyone elses, (was one of the leaders of the original irish back about 8months ago) thing was i was smart about it, i didn't run around with aks on me if i didn't need it... didn't ever shoot at cops, because that doesn't make sense to... if they caught me, well then they caught me but never did i get max time, because i didn't stack up a huge list of charges by being foolish and trying to kill my way out of it. Treated them with respect rather then disrespecting them full time, or running around trying to copbait. 

Cops and DOC workers are not here to entertain you, they are here to play a character, just like you, difference is they are not criminals, they have different mentality, I would reccommend if anyone thinks either of these jobs are easy, apply and come find out. Assuming you have a clean admin record of course... because thats a requirment.

 

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Im not complaining about the max time of 2 hours, im just saying raising to 8 hours that just any cop can sentence a criminal to would just be stupid. 2 hours is adiquite, granted things are added to prison for people to do. You say to go roleplay with other inmates but a majority of people would just afk and if you are there by yourself all you can do is watch the grass grow. There is also only so much rp you can do when confined to a prison for 2 hours. 

And in no way am i saying being a cop is easy, i have plenty of experiance being a cop in the old samp days, i know what its like to deal with people who treat this like normal GTA. ITs just really unfortunate that we who like to actually roleplay have to deal with thier consquences.

58 minutes ago, Scott Cleverley said:

Also prison shouldn't be fun, prison is not fun IRL, it's not vacation it's a punishment so to whoever.

Also this is a roleplay Game. Emphasis on the game, even though somepeople like to treat this like real life others are here to have fun not stare at a wall by themselevs in jail for 2 hours. Yes people should deal with the consquences of their actions in game but they should also be able to have fun while they are in jail with things to do. 

 

 

 

Edited by DiCarlo
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6 hours ago, alexalex303 said:

Increasing prison sentences will add population, and with it, roleplaying opportunities. I also refuse to believe that most people afk prison, with how often people attempt and succeed prison breaks, prison smuggling, and other prison related activities.

Refuse or not, most of the time your mentioned things happen is when someone of a high rank of a certain gang has been imprisoned. This is not a standard of RP that is consistent inside DOC. Not to mention the lack of a script to approve prison breaks (i.e cops # check, or whatever else). I have spent 10mins setting up a prison break and waited over an hour for admins to answer, all the while we are just sitting doing nothing waiting on this. We cannot move forwards with plans to collect a hostage until we get the admin go-ahead and this stops prison breaks in their tracks. There should be a script to allow or decline prison breaks, especially if more time is added as more prison breaks will be common then.

@alexalex303 It is also very easy to make suggestions as someone who mains a PD character. This would only help your character, less criminals on the streets because more are AFKing in SADOC. But you on your PD character would never have to face the consequences of this equivalent to a full work day in DOC AFKing for a majority of your RP.

 

as Philippe put it:

1 hour ago, MrSilky said:

it's essentially an Admin punishment for an IC infraction.

There is little difference right now between admin jail and DOC.  Put me in 60mins for DM or for an IC crime, the same thing would happen. Alt tabbed and watch netflix as there is nothing to do in prison other than inmates punching each other, or if someone of a sufficient rank was thrown in maybe a prison break if the staff on at the time actually answer your /report 1 in time. There is little to no RP between DOC and prisoners. I have only ever seen them bust in to stop a riot, or escorting a prisoner to there cell. There is no regime in prison to follow where guards escort you to the job of the day you will do for some money or reduced time, no games to play, no schedule such as: X go eat, X time go do work inside the prison, X time hit the showers, X time free time (scripted games and such). etc. There is fuckall to do in prison. There are a few exceptions such as being thrown in with your friends and you shoot the shit, but even then usually it will turn to "ok, ill be back when my time is over, see you then". Then everyone AFKs.

All im saying is there is a reason the devs removed the ability to afk in prison, then added it back so you can AFK 3 days later. There is nothing to do in prison. 

 

Oh yeah, and -1

Edited by TheCanadian
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11 minutes ago, DiCarlo said:

Also this is a roleplay Game. Emphasis on the game, even though somepeople like to treat this like real life others are here to have fun not stare at a wall by themselevs in jail for 2 hours. Yes people should deal with the consquences of their actions in game but they should also be able to have fun while they are in jail with things to do. 

 

 

 

Yes this is a game, but if you have never worked as DOC/COP you don't get what kind of rp goes in there. All the worst rp'ers are in there, because lets be real, most of people who abuse roleplay is criminals that end up in the prison. They don't care if they get banned or no and so on, they here just to rob people and you don't need to have clean admin log to do that. Also yes this is not a real life people came here to have fun. So what if I tell you there's other ways to have fun besides doing something illegal that won't end up being in jail? Anyways my point is that most of the people plays this game as GTA online, not like a rp server even experienced players do that. 

And I'm not even saying that just because I want to make SADOC look better, I'm saying that just because what me made to quit it. It's tiring to sit in the prison most of the time with limited script while 70% of inmates just have really bad rp standarts. I would rather see people getting harsher punishments for shitty rp, since the main reason what is lacking in this server is rp standarts.

Edited by Scott Cleverley
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2 minutes ago, Scott Cleverley said:

Yes this is a game, but if you have never worked as DOC/COP you don't get what kind of rp goes in there. All the worst rp'ers are in there, because lets be real, most of people who abuse roleplay is criminals that end up in the prison. They don't care if they get banned or no and so on, they here just to rob people and you don't need to have clean admin log to do that. Also yes this is not a real life people came here to have fun. So what if I tell you there's other ways to have fun besides doing something illegal that won't end up being in jail? Anyways my point is that most of the people plays this game as GTA online, not like a rp server even experienced players do that. 
 

 

Clearly didnt read my post in full, i have been a cop on other roleplay serevrs back in the day og GTA:SA or SAMP. I do know what it is like to deal with these people. And if the system works as it should those types of people will get banned and never come back. 

Well just like you roleplay being a cop because you either want to be one in real life and cant or maybe you just enjoy being one, some players like to roleplay being a criminal because they think it would be fun and its not like they can do it in real life. Those who play this game like GTA onling will eventually lose interest or be banned. If you are trying to rp with people in jail as a DOC member and they are just attacking you for no reason, then report them. Otherwise you rp with them, dealing with dangerous criminals is a hazard of working for DOC. 

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22 minutes ago, Jbacon said:

Cops and DOC workers are not here to entertain you, they are here to play a character, just like you, difference is they are not criminals, they have different mentality, I would reccommend if anyone thinks either of these jobs are easy, apply and come find out. Assuming you have a clean admin record of course... because thats a requirment.

The difference is though, that "character" does nearly nothing to interact with prisoners other than throw them in their cell, and roll in en masse when a riot starts, tazing everyone and tossing their ass in their cell to lock them. There is no prison RP between guards and prisoners, no set schedule with RP jobs like you would have to do in prison. There is nothing. I think also what a lot of people mean by 'afking on duty' is that alot of DOC just book the prisoners, then chill outside or doing random things not involving the prisoners. Essentially making it a free for all inside the prison. This is not Prison RP. There should be a set schedule for people to follow, alongside guards actually doing things with prisoners taking them to the lunch room, go work, etc. but there isnt. once thrown in jail the RP is either: Breakout, beat the shit out of each other for no reason, or AFK watching netflix. Most people pick the last as there is nothing to do.

38 minutes ago, Jbacon said:

But if you find prison boring, then create RP inside it. There is absolutely nothing stopping you from RPing with each other, your gang affiliations etc.... hell I don't know DOC policies but im sure you can have visitors under supervision.

 RP is limited by a players imagination, I personally have spent 3 hours rping with 5 people, and not one of us used a script or /anim during it, and we all had a blast. Use this as a chance to write a story, sit your character down, write a note to your long lost dead spouse... or your daughter... anything is possible, it is only yourself to blame if you cant find something to RP in prison. I have never afk'd a jail sentence, and well I was jailed before DOC was even a thing.

The thing is, sure you can use your imagination. But that can only go so far when the only interaction you have is with other prisoners. but what we are talking about here is 8 HOURS of prison time with nothing scripted. no jobs, nothing. this is a full work day we would spend on the server with nothing to do other than imagine /mes and /dos. Sure, we can create this. But every other major faction has scripted things that contribute to the RP. DOC doesnt, prisoners are thrown in their cell, then most of the time left to rot by the guards until another person comes in. Most people afk because being surrounded by concrete walls doing fuckall is not enjoyable. Sure you can do a few /mes and /dos or chat with friends if you got locked up with them. but that is a big IF. 

This isnt meant to throw shade or anything along those lines, However alot of the suggestions regarding being more harsh on criminals, increasing prison time, etc. has been suggested by what appears to be PD players. It would make their life easier with less criminals and longer jailtime. But they would never/ rarely (in the case of alts) have to face the consequences of the suggestion. They are making their lives easier, and not having to go through their suggestion. such as this one, waiting 8 hours to be able to go out with no scripted anything in prison. 8 hours is the amount that some people play in a week with work, family, etc. wanting them to be forced inside prison with nothing to do is not a good idea in my mind, and would not be healthy for the community with the way things currently are in SADOC.

 

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1 hour ago, Scott Cleverley said:

I worked at DOC it's really draining to rp all the time with inmates when they talk shit most of the time to your face, attack you for no reason since there's no punishment for it, oh yeah we will drag you to solitary that you could afk stay there doing nothing. Most of my experience entering cells would be instantly getting jumped on.

Also prison shouldn't be fun, prison is not fun IRL, it's not vacation it's a punishment so to whoever.

Wait, holy shit. You're telling me, you, a prison guard... Got treated like a guard might in a very bad prison IRL?

Edit: theres also a difference between "fun" ICly and OOCly. Prison currently is not fun either ic or oocly, there is nothing to do. If it isnt fun ICly then that is different (i.e annoying jobs you need to work).

1 hour ago, Scott Cleverley said:

 And then you keep crying about DOC rp while you show low rp, dont you see problem here? 

I don't think most people are crying about DOC RP or crim RP. It's the lack of scripted jobs, and DOC engagement. Every single time i have went to jail, the only interactions i've had with DOC is getting thrown in jail, and seeing other inmates getting thrown in as well. A few riots have been stopped and what have you, but there is no proper routine for prisoners, nothing to do, DOC does not have control over prisoners, they do not have a presence, they do not RP with them consistently. No routine, no nothing. They sit outside the cell areas most of the time, often outside the prison just chilling while the inmates are either AFKing or beating the shit out of each other. I have never went to prison and had  DOC establish their presence over the inmates, take control and tell the inmates how the day will happen (RP /mes and dos to jobs, lunch times, etc.) Most of the time its like it this was the worst prison in south america, they throw you in and leave you with the other inmates, never interacting with you after your cell is locked unless another prisoner appears. Then leaving prisoners to do as they please with each other (most of the time beating the shit out of each other or AFKing). YOU are DOC. YOU should establish control of the prison and over the prisoners as guards would IRL. 

If there is 1 guard vs 20 inmates? sure, then just let them be, you know they will jump you. But how many times have those who drove by doc seen guards chilling outside for a very long time not doing anything when that time could be RPed with inmates and keeping control of the prison. Establishing your presence as the authority of the prison rather than the criminal inmates.

You seem to throw the RP blame a whole lot on the inmates despite you guys being supposed to have the control of the prison, and you RPly being in charge. DOC should escort inmates to their cells when the time comes, should bring them to the lunchroom for the 3 meals, should bring the inmates to RP jobs, working, being in the courtyard to work out or play basketball, run, etc. 

There are 2 parties involved in prison RP and you just threw the blamed entirely on the prisoners despite that the guards should have control over the prisoners, as it is after all their prison. But they dont, they throw the inmates in and leave them to rot and beat the shit out of each other.

Edited by TheCanadian
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Just now, TheCanadian said:

Wait, holy shit. You're telling me, you, a prison guard... Got treated like a prison guard might IRL in a bad prison?

Wait have you ever even been to the prison? I bet you have not. I had a practice in there as a social worker, no one attempts to kill you and so on since they don't want their sentence extended, they want to get out on a good behaviour.  LOL

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3 minutes ago, Scott Cleverley said:

Wait have you ever even been to the prison? I bet you have not. I had a practice in there as a social worker, no one attempts to kill you and so on since they don't want their sentence extended, they want to get out on a good behaviour.  LOL

Thank you for addressing the what i thought was clear banter statement i made, and no other point i made. The reason i said 'bad prison' is because DOC is essentially a kin to the worst prisons in the case that you are locked in, nothing will help you or get you out (no good behavior, etc.) the guards throw you into your cell then dont interact with you, and you are left along with the other inmates to rot in your cell.

 

Care to address any of my other points?

Edited by TheCanadian
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2 hours ago, Scott Cleverley said:

I worked at DOC it's really draining to rp all the time with inmates when they talk shit most of the time to your face, attack you for no reason since there's no punishment for it, oh yeah we will drag you to solitary that you could afk stay there doing nothing. Most of my experience entering cells would be instantly getting jumped on.

Also prison shouldn't be fun, prison is not fun IRL, it's not vacation it's a punishment so to whoever.

And you sir, you're just problem yourself, attempting to attack a officer it's just low rp standarts, what kind of rp you expect to get when attempting to attack them? 
I would even consider it FEAR RP since you're trying to jump on 2 officers who have tasers out, not even caring that your sentence will increase and so on for no valid reason. And then you keep crying about DOC rp while you show low rp, dont you see problem here? 

That's the main point why I left DOC in the first place, it's just DOC staff are prisoners themselves, inmates don't want to rp anything besides punching you and once you taze them (since the protocol of DOC states that you must have tazer at hand all the time you enter cells) people just start crying about it.

 

i try to fall him down not attack, i was working at doc also scott and you know that most of them just farming salary.

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1 hour ago, TheCanadian said:

Refuse or not, most of the time your mentioned things happen is when someone of a high rank of a certain gang has been imprisoned. This is not a standard of RP that is consistent inside DOC. Not to mention the lack of a script to approve prison breaks (i.e cops # check, or whatever else). I have spent 10mins setting up a prison break and waited over an hour for admins to answer, all the while we are just sitting doing nothing waiting on this. We cannot move forwards with plans to collect a hostage until we get the admin go-ahead and this stops prison breaks in their tracks. There should be a script to allow or decline prison breaks, especially if more time is added as more prison breaks will be common then.

@alexalex303 It is also very easy to make suggestions as someone who mains a PD character. This would only help your character, less criminals on the streets because more are AFKing in SADOC. But you on your PD character would never have to face the consequences of this equivalent to a full work day in DOC AFKing for a majority of your RP.

 

as Philippe put it:

There is little difference right now between admin jail and DOC.  Put me in 60mins for DM or for an IC crime, the same thing would happen. Alt tabbed and watch netflix as there is nothing to do in prison other than inmates punching each other, or if someone of a sufficient rank was thrown in maybe a prison break if the staff on at the time actually answer your /report 1 in time. There is little to no RP between DOC and prisoners. I have only ever seen them bust in to stop a riot, or escorting a prisoner to there cell. There is no regime in prison to follow where guards escort you to the job of the day you will do for some money or reduced time, no games to play, no schedule such as: X go eat, X time go do work inside the prison, X time hit the showers, X time free time (scripted games and such). etc. There is fuckall to do in prison. There are a few exceptions such as being thrown in with your friends and you shoot the shit, but even then usually it will turn to "ok, ill be back when my time is over, see you then". Then everyone AFKs.

All im saying is there is a reason the devs removed the ability to afk in prison, then added it back so you can AFK 3 days later. There is nothing to do in prison. 

Everyone on this server is equal, no one is nor should be barred to making a suggestion just because they are in a certain faction, that's a great example of attacking the person, rather than the idea.

The difference between admin jail and DOC is the fact that you can roleplay. If you get arrested with five other gang members, and you all just say "I'll see you when my time is over", then you're part of the problem, and you're the reason there is "fuckall to do in prison". This is a roleplaying server, and no one should be waiting to be spoon-fed roleplay by DOC.

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@TheCanadian Yes my main is a cop, but I also frequent my criminal, and do criminal activities. I have faced and served jail time for crimes I have done on my criminal, I know it can be boring in there, but rather then complain about it why not help develop ideas and "productive" suggestion threads rather then just complaining. Join DOC, make suggestions to them, and have the leadership present a list to the official faction leaders admins... same as PD does,

PD has a huge list of stuff that has been discussed and suggested by members of the faction and by those in other groups, we put together a comprehensive list of positives and negatives for each suggestion, along with suggestions on how it can be implicated as-well as how it would benefit the masses. One that was put forward 6months ago weapons licensing got added. Some of the suggestions get turned down, others get approved, some we don't hear from... its a matter that the development team is very busy trying to generate updates and content for all sides of the server... so if you want to make suggestions, I recommend getting in touch with a member of the faction management team and putting together a list, with complete thoughts. Positives, negatives and what benefits it will have. Patience is key when making suggestions.

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2 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

This is a roleplaying server, and no one should be waiting to be spoon-fed roleplay by DOC.

Right you mean DOC should not RP like it is IRL and have a proper regime with prisoners with a certain time to do certain things. Rather leave prisoners to interact with themselves while DOC does nothing, sit outside, rarely if ever talk to prisoners.

4 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

The difference between admin jail and DOC is the fact that you can roleplay. If you get arrested with five other gang members, and you all just say "I'll see you when my time is over"

After an hour of chatting, it can get boring. a lot of people use the time in prison to go do stuff IRL, go for a walk, cook, do chores. This is what i mean. i have spent 2 hours straight of prison time talking to friends. I have also alt tabbed the second i was booked. It is a case by case basis and currently the prison lends itself to little to no RP due to the limitations of it, and DOC not doing much. It is a prison, and should be RPed as such instead of letting prisoners do whatever they please.

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2 minutes ago, Jbacon said:

Join DOC, make suggestions to them, and have the leadership present a list to the official faction leaders admins... same as PD does,

I CBA'd doing this as legal RP does not entertain me.

I can see your point, but what would me making another suggestion that has been made 10 times before about better prison RP and prison jobs. There have been many suggestions regarding this issue, me making another to repeat the points made in the previous would not change anything. Similar to how many clothing suggestions have we had? closets, outfit sets, etc. Making another one will not change anything, it has been done many times before, and reviewed by staff also. The devs know the prison RP is an issue, and its why they put back the ability to AFK in prison.

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16 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

Everyone on this server is equal, no one is nor should be barred to making a suggestion just because they are in a certain faction, that's a great example of attacking the person, rather than the idea.

As for this, i then proceeded to attack the idea both before and after the comment i made about you and this suggestion. This was not meant as a direct attack, but rather a matter of fact. You are suggesting something that would barely, if at all impact most of your RP. While it would heavily hinder the RP of others and their experience on the server. making them wait 4x longer AFKing or having a very boring experience in prison while you would drop them off at prison and just go to another call.

Edited by TheCanadian
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2 minutes ago, Copperhorse said:

Maybe make it so that the fines dont send you to jail and people wouldn't always be wanted which leads to mass evasion which leads to shootouts.

fines don't send you to jail unless you fail to pay them in the allotted time. Same as in rl.

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22 minutes ago, Copperhorse said:

They dont give you max sentence irl for not paying fines.

not paying a fine is 15mins in jtime. so if your getting max time its because your getting reckless operation which is 45mins per. so if you get 3 your max time.

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59 minutes ago, Copperhorse said:

They dont give you max sentence irl for not paying fines.

No a failure to pay a fine is 15mins in jail and 500$, but when you add on multiple reckless operation tickets, which are misdemeanors then you can get to max time quickly especially when you drive at 200kph in the city. 

 

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