Re-Cap Adjust Prison/Jail Time & Cut-off

[Sandiego]

Well, currently I am in prison for 6 hours 20 minutes, and I will be honest, I dont even want to log in anymore, because I cant rp anything, all I can do is afk and leave my pc running for 6 hours with no interactions what so ever, theres barely any guards that you can interact with and theres barely any prisoners, and even if there is everyone is afk, so what am I supposed to do now, afk the whole day and watch netflix? Changes should be made. 

[TheCactus]

I agree with capping the jail time back again but it shouldn't be less than 360 minutes (6 hours). A 120 minutes cap is too low and we all, Law Enforcement Factions and civilians, experienced the consequences of that. Pursuing someone, knowing that he committed a massacre 3 hours before bores me.

On the other hand, staying in jail for more than 6 hours makes me think I should skip ECRP today and play something else.

[SamuelGunn]

The problem is not even the cap it self, the problem is PD higher up's look on this. I have seen multiple times where higher ups says oh you shot at 5 pd officers ATTEMPTED MURDER OF POLICE OFFICER 5X and don't say it's not like that since it is, I've been there I worked in PD and got suspended for rewarding people for good rp which made me "corrupt" (reducing their charges and not giving them bs 5 hours jail time).

This can be solved by awarding people for good rp without even implamenting a cap. But ofc big +1

[Z0thian]

+1 As a person who spends most of their playtime in prison I think something seriously needs to be done. I don't mind prison and the time doesn't bother me at all. When in prison I always find SOME form of RP to do just to save me having to tab in and out watching Netflix all the time. 

I think more people would be incline to RP in prison if there was more to do. Mining in the prison simply isn't worth it, the time spent actually mining is grueling enough, then you get such a small amount of time reduced with the stamps. 

I think people also need to cut down on the amount of DM that happens in the prison. People seem to think that Prison is exempt from the rules and will just randomly come up to me in the cells or the yard and punch me trying to down me for my stamps, or just from pure boredom. 

[aXoL]

I made a topic about this problem a couple months ago too.

Big +1

As a criminal i always try not to get in trouble with the cops and there are several reasons for that.

The most important reason is that it's not worth it!

Why would i start a criminal action which can lead me to prison for more than 2 hours?! there is nothing to do in the prison and its 100% worse than an ooc punishment because you can't afk, you can't log out. you have to just sit there and look at the wall for 8 hours.

Some people just told me : don't do crimes, do the crime serve the time and bullshits like that which is retarded to any role player who has a healthy mentality about role play.

Actions should have consequesnes but i guess people here forgot that its a role play server and everyone here should have fun during their play time.

Second reason is the big gap between criminals and cops in power:

I am 100% agree that cops should be stronger and more organized than criminals, but why would you want to close all the rooms for rp between the cops and criminals? If you are talking about realism, let me tell you that role play is not meant to be realistic. Role play is about sinking in your character and perform a role which everyone can enjoy from it. And if you are trying to run a realistic enviroment why would you just make cops realistic? why criminals are not able to pickup weapons from the cops? the answer is we should sometimes make some changes to make rp enjoyable and smooth. You can't pickup the weapons because cops would just change to a loot box to criminals, and that's why in eclipse you should not be able to pickup the cop guns. So why don't we make more changes like this? why shouldn't we open much more room for rp between the cops and criminals?

why should lspd bring super cars and helicopters and detectives because of a traffic stop and close any room for a wanted criminal to get away from a traffic stop. I was wanted and a cop was trying to stop me because of speeding, so i just drove off and faced over 20 cop behind me driving supers and helicopter and carrying smg in their hand when i had no guns on me. I was driving a schaffter and even their SUV's could catch me easily and i had no chance to get away. maybe some people just say: so don't go above 70km. It's not about making a mistake or doing a crime, its about the role play behind it and how much space you got to rp with.

the jail time and not balanced power between the cops and criminals( in a right way ) just stops me from rp'ing with cops and most likely would just lead 90% of players to start robbing randoms and ruin everyone's experience. 

Changing some stuff about the jail and cop-criminal activities can really improve the rp level out here. We have been talking about these stuff on the last few months but never got a answer from related staffs which is unfortunate. Changing some jail time and talking about the rp situations don't need heavy scripts and cods so i don't really know why staffs are not trying to change some rules and times and stuff like that. i really don't.

 

[alexalex303]

Big -1

Have you noticed how discussions about DeathRP are never about whether or not its realistic or good? They're mainly centered about cops being perceived as not being fair. As in cops granting privileges to their friends, whether or not it happens.

If you allow the cop to decide if the cap is lifted or in effect, it will inevitably lead to accusations and further alienation between law enforcement and criminal members of the community. If John and Dan get jailed for the same crimes, but in one instance PD High Command X decided to lift the cap for John's sentence, but PD High Command Y decided to not lift the cap for Dan's sentence, inevitably, John will be upset.

John will be in prison for a long time, and John will most definitively not be in a mood to RP, feeling that he was wronged.

If you make the cap dynamic, it needs to be governed by a certain set of clear rules, that are not up to debate. Allowing LSPD to grant huge favors at a whim will not be productive.

[Aldarine]

Personally I would rather see more activities scriptly added to the prison as well as a nicely sized criminal update as opposed to recapping jail time. I also am not keen on the idea of specific individuals being able to counter a placed cap as that will only lead to tensions and debate regarding why one person had their cap lifted as opposed to another. 911 calls for PD/SD may be decreasing because criminals are getting smarter or because they are not committing crimes which should in no way lead to an OOC prison time cap. At the end of the day activity for any faction/player will ebb and flow as it should considering it's the nature of the beast. There are alternate methods that can be used IC such as conversations with the government regarding the penal code and how charges should be placed/adjusted based on scenario. For instance, take the charge of attempted murder of a government employee. If a criminal shoots into a group of multiple officers, I've seen that single charge get double, tripled, etc. Instead, it could possibly be deemed one offense and thus only a single charge. The same can be looked at regarding lesser crimes in combination with higher level felonies and what the most appropriate charges can be to have a balance. As a DOC worker I've seen 10-15s brought in who are non-compliant while the PD/SD officer is present and more charges get added in those few minutes. Valid? Yes technically. Necessary? In my opinion, not really and only seems to serve as a type of charge inflation.

Overall -1 from me

[Bala]

4 hours ago, Sandiego said:

Well, currently I am in prison for 6 hours 20 minutes, and I will be honest, I dont even want to log in anymore, because I cant rp anything, all I can do is afk and leave my pc running for 6 hours with no interactions what so ever, theres barely any guards that you can interact with and theres barely any prisoners, and even if there is everyone is afk, so what am I supposed to do now, afk the whole day and watch netflix? Changes should be made. 

I mean in fairness, to get 6 hours 20 minutes, you obviously did some really bad shit to get that time. This suggestion isn't meant to go easier on people, but to keep them engaged in the role-play no matter what they are doing in the server. Prison isn't admin jail, you're there in-character so there should be an environment that should support role-playing in, which I don't think the current prison and the current sentencing supports.

People might say that prison shouldn't be "fun" but that doesn't mean it can't be interesting and make you want to role-play.

2 hours ago, TheCactus said:

I agree with capping the jail time back again but it shouldn't be less than 360 minutes (6 hours). A 120 minutes cap is too low and we all, Law Enforcement Factions and civilians, experienced the consequences of that. Pursuing someone, knowing that he committed a massacre 3 hours before bores me.

On the other hand, staying in jail for more than 6 hours makes me think I should skip ECRP today and play something else.

There would be very little point in having a cap if it was six hours. 

To be clear, with my suggestion it would be a two hour cap with the provision for the high command of PD to increase the cap for specific players depending on their crimes. If someone is a mass murderer, they can't just get two hours, either from a practical standpoint or an RP one. But if someone is going around robbing stores, from a practical standpoint, that's a victim-less crime (no player gets harmed) and they don't need to be out of the main world for that long as a result. 

What I would say is create an alt or even just go and sit with DOC for a couple hours and you'll see what the experience is like. It's not good and it's not the sort of experience that makes people to log in, even with only 3 hours.

1 hour ago, SamuelGunn said:

The problem is not even the cap it self, the problem is PD higher up's look on this. I have seen multiple times where higher ups says oh you shot at 5 pd officers ATTEMPTED MURDER OF POLICE OFFICER 5X and don't say it's not like that since it is, I've been there I worked in PD and got suspended for rewarding people for good rp which made me "corrupt" (reducing their charges and not giving them bs 5 hours jail time).

This can be solved by awarding people for good rp without even implamenting a cap. But ofc big +1

I think the mentality of 'rewarding good roleplay' in Eclipse is a little fucked up to be honest. You should expect good role-play from every one you meet in the server ideally. Now if someone is going to role-play exceptionally then maybe you can ask the admins to take some time off the sentence but I hate this idea that you should be rewarded simply for doing what you should be doing anyway. That amount of time should also be a universal limit so you don't have 1 cop giving you half your sentence and 1 cop giving you a quarter off.

A murderer might roleplay well when caught by PD, but it still doesn't change the fact they've murdered someone. They need to answer for that, good RP or not.

57 minutes ago, Z0thian said:

+1 As a person who spends most of their playtime in prison I think something seriously needs to be done. I don't mind prison and the time doesn't bother me at all. When in prison I always find SOME form of RP to do just to save me having to tab in and out watching Netflix all the time. 

I think more people would be incline to RP in prison if there was more to do. Mining in the prison simply isn't worth it, the time spent actually mining is grueling enough, then you get such a small amount of time reduced with the stamps. 

I think people also need to cut down on the amount of DM that happens in the prison. People seem to think that Prison is exempt from the rules and will just randomly come up to me in the cells or the yard and punch me trying to down me for my stamps, or just from pure boredom. 

You're a bit of a curious case Bonnie, because ultimately, you'll go to prison a lot regardless of the system. I think short of making the prison unbearable, it's not going to be a deterrent for you. But I do think with your frequent visits, your feedback for improving the prison itself should be considered. 

Devs only need to take a quick look at a game like Prison Architect to see the sort of things a prison could use. Not to the same degree, obviously but the idea of people using pickaxes in prison to mine for things seems like lunacy. This isn't the suggestion thread really for improving the prison itself but having a drug-lab type system with food ingredients and having random meal orders to prepare, being able to make license plates for vehicles in the prison workshop etc.

As for the non-rp behaviour in prison, think it comes down to a lack of incentive with no process for sentence reduction for good behaviour and no ability for DOC to increase time for bad behaviour. I ask myself if you are already in the spot for doing bad shit, why would you concern yourself at all with doing more bad shit, you're already in prison? Completely the wrong mentality I know but you can see why.

[Sandiego]

4 minutes ago, GOAT said:

I mean in fairness, to get 6 hours 20 minutes, you obviously did some really bad shit to get that time. This suggestion isn't meant to go easier on people, but to keep them engaged in the role-play no matter what they are doing in the server. Prison isn't admin jail, you're there in-character so there should be an environment that should support role-playing in, which I don't think the current prison and the current sentencing supports.

 

I had evading from police, heavy weaponry, gun without license, hit and run, criminal threats, and something else soo it wasn't the worst things.

[Bala]

18 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

Big -1

Have you noticed how discussions about DeathRP are never about whether or not its realistic or good? They're mainly centered about cops being perceived as not being fair. As in cops granting privileges to their friends, whether or not it happens.

If you allow the cop to decide if the cap is lifted or in effect, it will inevitably lead to accusations and further alienation between law enforcement and criminal members of the community. If John and Dan get jailed for the same crimes, but in one instance PD High Command X decided to lift the cap for John's sentence, but PD High Command Y decided to not lift the cap for Dan's sentence, inevitably, John will be upset.

John will be in prison for a long time, and John will most definitively not be in a mood to RP, feeling that he was wronged.

If you make the cap dynamic, it needs to be governed by a certain set of clear rules, that are not up to debate. Allowing LSPD to grant huge favors at a whim will not be productive.

I completely agree about there being clear guidelines and it being publicly available information, like we have with the penal code. The idea would be that certain charges would be cap triggers and having them when you go to prison, would mean that your prison time is going to be uncapped. 

I think perhaps my original post insinuated that High Command of PD would be changing the cap on a case by case basis, but what I meant is that High Command could change the cap limit but that change would apply to everyone that goes to prison and be changed rarely. 

From a system point of view, it makes more sense to have it adjustable than hard coded.

[vacant]

+1 last thing I expected was PD to be for the cap again, I agree with essentially all of your guys points, especially with the one about how more serious crimes could possibly end up longer than the cap due to the severity, the last two times I was caught on serious charges resulted in 5.5hour sentences which essentially resulted in me asking to be locked in a cell so I didn’t have to be punched every 2 minutes or have someone running around screaming. 

[KCAJ]

+1

[vuki]

Big +1

I hate arresting people knowing they can't play for the next 5 hours

[MohammedAli]

+1

No fun as a criminal.

No fun as a cop.

 

Will definitely increase my play-time if there is more fun to be had.

As a criminal, i find no crime worthwhile because of the absurd jail-time that can come with it.  As an officer, there is just nothing going on even when waiting hours driving around. I feel like I have participated in every role-play scenario there is between criminals and law enforcement. 

[Sineye]

+1 I think this is a good balance of nerfing offence stacking for minor crimes and punishing larger crimes more.

[aXoL]

1 hour ago, Sineye said:

+1 I think this is a good balance of nerfing offence stacking for minor crimes and punishing larger crimes more.

Punishing larger crimes more? Why would we want this. The larger crimes are the Ones which make rp interesting not carrying an empty illegal sns pistol. 

[SamuelGunn]

8 hours ago, GOAT said:

A murderer might roleplay well when caught by PD, but it still doesn't change the fact they've murdered someone. They need to answer for that, good RP or not.

Exactly that's the mentality I'm talking about, IT's A FUC*ING GAME PEOPLE wake up geesh and I don't role play criminal and I just hate the feeling while robbing others. And by rewarding I mean not puting 5 hours of jail time but giving instead 2 hours of jail time. WE ARE HERE TO HAVE FUN and there is no fun since Criminals are salty on PD and try to evade cops since well umm that's what criminals do? And due to such huge amount of jail time criminals are always salty and don't want to rp with you since they don't want to spend 6 hours in jail time. Rather suggestion would be maybe robbed people should get some kind of compensation from criminals rather than to goverment so if they would get robbed they would even earn money as you do in IRL.

Criminal Roleplay:
Make drugs,
Have a illegal gun since you're in a gang,
Trying to evade? Failure to evade, reckless operation, endagerment to the public

That's atleast 3-4 hours jail time cuz you're a criminal and that's the way you make moneeeeey and that's the way you're supposed to make money as a criminal.

And since there's such big punishment there's no room for healthy and fun rp between crims and police since everyone is just salty. Criminals try to evade since they're supposed to evade jail and police gets salty about that since sometimes criminals crosses the line to evade the jail time...

Maybe I'm just naive and expect people to rp like this: Keep in mind they receive like 10 minutes of jail time for such stuff since as I said everyone there's to have fun not to pretend and measure dicks of how hard you work as police officer in a game https://www.twitch.tv/vader/clip/FlaccidLightWalrusDerp?filter=clips&range=7d&sort=time
 

All in all I see this post as: We have nothing to do as police officers so lets decrease prison time, but not because it's boring for criminals too in jail it's just because we have nothing to do as police, don't you see how hypocritical this looks like? 

 

Edited December 13, 2019 by SamuelGunn

[Mopop]

-1

[BigDaddySco]

Massive + 1. I was sent to prison for 3.5hrs just for carrying a firearm and driving away from Police.  This ruined all of my game time for the whole night and ended up in Prison with nothing to do. There is almost zero RP in Prison and you cant even go AFK. Eclipse has to start changing for the better. On one hand devs and admin want it to be more RL like but there is so much that goes against it being anywhere near this. In my opinion eclipse devs have gotten real lazy and I doubt it will be long before players ship off to Mafia or some other RP server. 

I think sometimes that we forget at the end of the day this is a game and for good RP we need more to do and uncapped jail time makes this even worse.

[Machete]

Big +1 

The current meta is to shoot at the police instead of surrendering when surrounded by the police hoping to die instead of having to go to prison, then they usually start deathRP'ing  or asking for DeathRP which usually makes me quote the DeathRP rule but they still continue to argue in /b that it's not realistic.

 

 

[vacant]

49 minutes ago, CarlTTT said:

-1

Care to elaborate on why you are against it?

[Sineye]

4 hours ago, aXoL said:

Punishing larger crimes more? Why would we want this. The larger crimes are the Ones which make rp interesting not carrying an empty illegal sns pistol. 

Is that not exactly what happens in real life. If your risk a very organized crime or murder and get caught would it not make sense in rp for there to be large ramifications so you can't be sloppy.

[Mopop]

20 minutes ago, vacant said:

Care to elaborate on why you are against it?

Would rather see smarter criminals, instead of ones who know that there is a cap to their sentence. We have people who flee police for small warrants, or shoot a cop over a traffic violation. It just seems so GTAO to me at times. Organized crime is suppose to be well...organized.

[mexicanwave]

+1 for re-introducing the cap. It's no fun to sit doing nothing apart from the occasional afk math. If prison rp were do get an overhaul there would be a reason to uncap prison time. At the moment prison rp is brutally mundane. 

[dawpi]

2 hours ago, CarlTTT said:

Would rather see smarter criminals, instead of ones who know that there is a cap to their sentence. We have people who flee police for small warrants, or shoot a cop over a traffic violation. It just seems so GTAO to me at times. Organized crime is suppose to be well...organized.

I understand where you are coming from, but lets be realistic, at the back of our minds it is still a game. If we make a mistake while we role-play, what we do is jump into OOC chat and apologize, try to solve it. Of course, we are all here to make role-playing better experience and I do not believe that having 700 minutes in jail would make criminals smarter, it would make them more reason just to fight you even if it is just a traffic violation, why would someone go to jail at all if there is no limit to what you can get. This takes all the fun fully out of the game, of course, you don't have to sit in there for 6 hours a day and you can only play lets say... 3 hours total three times a week, so two of those play days are already ruined and you will only get such a small amount of time for playing.

Organized crime is supposed to be well organized, but not everyone is smart enough to know how the Police works and I do not believe that if somebody did not do their homework properly - should not be punished with 700 minutes in jail, I think a cap would even put more interest for prison role-playing since you know the maximum amount in jail you can be is two hours, might as well utilize that time normally rather than 6 hours which is 2 full Avengers End Game movies or lots of Beyonce Super Bowl performances.