Re-Cap Adjust Prison/Jail Time & Cut-off

[Balastas]

I work in PD and i always give way lower time for people who tried to rp good. On the other hand if person rp like shit I will but all the charges that he did. It's due to people not wanting to rp but rather win. We have bunch of zetas running around infront of gun while they are unarmed and not even giving a shit about fear rp. Therefore I will put max sentence for them if we catch them while doing so. 

And in that video I either get arrested or we need to do a shoot out.... There's other options like surrender and get less jail time when you knew clearly that you had small chance to escape?

[xxxJustTimmy]

idk dude I personally love spending 6-8 hours in a jail where you fall through the floor every time you login then die and lose all your stuff then respawn and have absolutely no stamps/pickaxe so then you end up stuck in a cell with absolutely nothing to do for the remaining 6 hours you're in jail for. 
Love it. 

 

[kenichis]

Deleted. Accidentally posted twice.

Edited July 31, 2019 by kenichis

[kenichis]

3 hours ago, CycloneDavid said:

The more I think about the more I believe this might be a good option. When you watch those vids civilians are driving to speed limits and following road rules whether they are criminals or not (in most cases), and that's because they don't know who the real players are, and visa versa. If I drive to the speed limits and road rules in this server I don't stand a chance. Criminals can commit crimes, evade police, and disguise within normal traffic in attempts of going undetected. AI protection provides less robberies which also allows the PD to setup proper speed traps, etc as well, but like you said, are there issues preventing this?

What makes Eclipse special for me is that there are NO NPC's.

When you are lost IRL and is looking for someone passing by to help you, when you see a car going in your direction your first instict would be to go to that car and ask for directions. Imagine you're in a roleplay situation like that and when you ask the person he turns out to be just another NPC and doesn't respond

 How much of a let down would that be? It would break the immersion of the situation instantly. Also regardint NPC's are their cars, when you see a car in Eclipse its special because its unique, in the sense that even if it is just a regular car it belongs to someone and only one like it exists. What happens when the streets are cluttered by generic cars? Or what happens when you chop a car and its just an NPC car? When you chop a car you get that feeling that someone out there is goint to wake up and lose their car because YOU jacked it. With NPC's what happens then?

Just my thoughts about the idea of adding NPC's.

Edited July 31, 2019 by kenichis

[CycloneDavid]

18 minutes ago, kenichis said:

What makes Eclipse special for me is that there are NO NPC's.

When you are lost IRL and is looking for someone passing by to help you, when you see a car going in your direction your first instict would be to go to that car and ask for directions. Imagine you're in a roleplay situation like that and when you ask the person he turns out to be just another NPC and doesn't respond

 How much of a let down would that be? It would break the immersion of the situation instantly. Also regardint NPC's are their cars, when you see a car in Eclipse its special because its unique, in the sense that even if it is just a regular car it belongs to someone and only one like it exists. What happens when the streets are cluttered by generic cars? Or what happens when you chop a car and its just an NPC car? When you chop a car you get that feeling that someone out there is goint to wake up and lose their car because YOU jacked it. With NPC's what happens then?

Just my thoughts about the idea of adding NPC's.

I see your point, though playing as a clean citizen if I see someone I immediately think I have to hide because very rarely (unless in NCZ) will a person just pass me by and let me be, or stop to just ask how I'm doing. Every car that passes by literally see's me in my vulnerable, slow work truck, makes the U-turn and holds me up. Currently in game its real simple - If a criminal see's a car or person they are easy pickings. And when I'm in my normal car I think I could easily blend in with AI traffic/cars.

I also think that criminal characters may be against the idea of AI for the simple reason that real players would be harder to find, and thats my point exactly! Why should it be easy? When I get robbed I don't think "lets by a gun and get revenge". And even if I purchased a gun I'm not driving around with it armed ready for the next person I see like criminals do. I'm not actively looking for someone, therefore when they pull me up they have the gun already drawn and ready. The immediate demands are to pull over and/or get out of the vehicle. Server rules puts me in the immediate disadvantage. I lose that situation too. That criminal just got all my stuff and that's it. They win. What did I get out of the situation? Hope you see my point here too.

Edited July 31, 2019 by CycloneDavid

[kenichis]

3 minutes ago, CycloneDavid said:

I also think that criminal characters may be against the idea of AI for the simple reason that real players would be harder to find, and thats my point exactly! Why should it be easy? When I get robbed I don't think "lets by a gun and get revenge". That criminal just got all my stuff and that's it. They win. What did I get out of the situation? Hope you see my point here too.

When you are out to rob someone on the street IRL, do you find it immersive that some people act like brainless robots, while others talk to you and respond to your commands?

Please keep in mind this is a Roleplay server, I think the immersion and quality of roleplay should he prioritized.

[CycloneDavid]

22 minutes ago, kenichis said:

When you are out to rob someone on the street IRL, do you find it immersive that some people act like brainless robots, while others talk to you and respond to your commands?

Please keep in mind this is a Roleplay server, I think the immersion and quality of roleplay should he prioritized.

I get it, I really do. But unless your the criminal looking to drive/ride around robbing people there isnt much fun in the same thing happening time and time again. Its the same RP situation every single time that only lasts a matter of seconds and you lose everything. IRL situations your not out on the street running or driving flat out every time you see someone either.

Edited July 31, 2019 by CycloneDavid

[Aldarine]

I do not think there should be a prison sentence cap due to the abuse that comes with implementing it as well as the fact that realistically there is no cap (people can be sentenced to prison for multiple life terms). What was stated before by another poster regarding the abuse of the 2 hour limit is absolutely true. There was nothing stopping a criminal from going on a rampage after they know their crimes sum up to the max prison sentence. That being said, I do think that the prison system needs some heavy work and to me it's a combination of 3 things - criminal players mentality, prison activities, and DOC involvement.

1. Criminal Player Mentality - When criminal players (not all) get arrested and jailed they like to complain (it's pretty evident on the forums especially on threads about prison sentence caps). They are very quick to state "it's an OOC punishment for something IC" "I'm just going to sit in my cell and AFK" or something along those lines. This mentality needs to change. As players on a roleplay server, we have to find ways to create scenarios. Stuck in prison for a few hours? Round up some inmates and play dice which secretly recruiting them into your gang. Make some new connections for when you get released from prison. There is a lot of RP potential with inmates alone if the effort was put in to create these scenarios. 

2. Prison Activities - There should be more scripted activities in prison such as laundry duty, library duty, etc. I do think the stamps system was a good call but it needs to be heavily reviewed and adjusted.

3. DOC Involvement - I am not speaking bad of the faction in any way, shape, or form, but I do believe that members of the DOC faction do need to step it up. There have been countless times where I've seen groups of DOC members fooling around outside the gates, hanging out outside the prison entrance, etc. when instead they could be inside the prison watching over inmates. Yes, guarding the gate and everything else is part of their job too but when there are so many doing it, it raises the question of how much attention is given to the inmates and increasing their RP enjoyment as well. As I am not a member of DOC, I cannot speak to how their internal structures/guidelines are set up nor their full job duties but I do think some balancing needs to be done to ensure that the internal area of the prison is properly staffed for the inmate population along with potentially scheduled rounding and RP scenes involving moving prisoners from one area to another for things like lunch, showers, etc.

[Mopop]

We need a system to reduce time within the DOC to promote the ones who are roleplaying cause most of the time its a clusterfuck of fail RP. 

[alexalex303]

You do not get punished for being a criminal, you get punished for getting caught. The solution is to stop robbing people in the middle of the street, stop getting into chases over tickets, and so on. 

Smart criminals are not punished.

[Rubsmeister]

19 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

You do not get punished for being a criminal, you get punished for getting caught. The solution is to stop robbing people in the middle of the street, stop getting into chases over tickets, and so on. 

Smart criminals are not punished.

So if I'm a bad criminal I should be punished the same way a rulebreaker is punished? This makes no sense. In it's current state I prefer admin jail over DOC, I'd rather get punished for breaking the rules that RP'ing with police and getting caught. The optimal solution in my opinion is not reducing jailtimes but allowing criminals to log off during their sentences. This way there is a serious reason to not commit crimes obviously or think twice about comitting crimes, which is definitely good and adds an RP element, but at the same time the prison sentence isn't stupid and boring, I can just think "well shit, I got caught, I guess I'll have to play something else for now and once I come back I can rethink the way I'm going to commit crimes". This also defeats the issue mentioned earlier, where people do crazy shit once they've reached their cap.

[alexalex303]

5 minutes ago, Rubsmeister said:

So if I'm a bad criminal I should be punished the same way a rulebreaker is punished? This makes no sense. In it's current state I prefer admin jail over DOC, I'd rather get punished for breaking the rules that RP'ing with police and getting caught. The optimal solution in my opinion is not reducing jailtimes but allowing criminals to log off during their sentences. This way there is a serious reason to not commit crimes obviously or think twice about comitting crimes, which is definitely good and adds an RP element, but at the same time the prison sentence isn't stupid and boring, I can just think "well shit, I got caught, I guess I'll have to play something else for now and once I come back I can rethink the way I'm going to commit crimes". This also defeats the issue mentioned earlier, where people do crazy shit once they've reached their cap.

No. Going to prison is not an OOC punishment. It is an IC one. You are not allowed to roleplay in admin jail, you are allowed to roleplay in prison. There are a couple of prison breaks every few days, that wouldn't be possible if it was an OOC punishment, would it now?

I think the main reason prison is "stupid and boring" is because people go in with that attitude. The fact of the matter, there is very little difference between sitting in prison RPing or sitting next to the 24/7 behind bank RPing. You can talk to people, roleplay, do whatever. The only exception to that is solitary, which is another discussion entirely.

[RickyB]

15 hours ago, James_McNulty said:

What if DOC actually had the assets and ability and potential to offer RP for the prisoners to take part in so people won't WANT to AFK in Prison. This is all band aids on an issue that is much larger. Everyone seems to just listen to music or AFK in Prison because there is little to no roleplay to be had inside ( so I hear from people, I'm not implying or insulting DOC as a faction ). I see nothing wrong with 4-6 hour and other heavy sentences for series felonies that stack. Imagine if DOC was more than a hall and cells and some isolation units. Why can't there be scheduled activities and routine roleplay for the prisoners to do?. Some basic ideas below.

 

- New Prisoner Intake / Gang Tattoo Affiliation Checks

- Laundry Detail

- Yard / Weight area

- Cafeteria and Meals

- Cell Inspection 

- Role Call 

- Etc...

 

It seems that the community is legit split on this. One side we have the legal factions (LSPD, Sheriff's , EMS ) who are outnumbered and outgunned as well as robbed and face legit car chases and gun fights all day who think its fair to have heavy jail sentences. On the other we have the criminals and illegal factions that already get a low reward for their activities but now face high risk of lengthy imprisonment. And since there is no RP to be had within the prison everyone wants to NOT be there. At all. Or for as little time as possible. That is not good. People should WANT to roleplay within Department Of Corrections. They should NOT want to AFK, listen to music and enable AFK script avoiding binds , etc. I have heard from 4-6 different people and all of them have said there is only people AFK'ing in DOC or beating eachother up and getting put in isolation. That's the full extent of what goes on from what I have heard so far. That is downright unacceptable IMO. 

 

In Summary, has anyone thought that maybe the Prison Environment is the problem and not the time your spending within it?.

100% hit the nail on the head of the CORE issue. As someone with extensive OOC corrections knowledge who ultimately would love to work for SADOC, calling the prison RP on this server lacking would probably be too kind. I am honestly astonished that DOC is so far behind the other factions in RP. Is there even anyone at the DOC helm setting a threshold? There appear to be enough employees, facilities and im sure creative minds in the DOC to make the RP everyone has been asking for happen. 

Edited July 31, 2019 by RickyB

[James_McNulty]

37 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

No. Going to prison is not an OOC punishment. It is an IC one. You are not allowed to roleplay in admin jail, you are allowed to roleplay in prison. There are a couple of prison breaks every few days, that wouldn't be possible if it was an OOC punishment, would it now?

I think the main reason prison is "stupid and boring" is because people go in with that attitude. The fact of the matter, there is very little difference between sitting in prison RPing or sitting next to the 24/7 behind bank RPing. You can talk to people, roleplay, do whatever. The only exception to that is solitary, which is another discussion entirely.

Agree with that first part, but I don't think that people consider DOC boring and stupid based on attitude alone. They are saying it's boring and stupid because it is. It's a IC prison with no IC roleplay to be had. That is what nearly half of the replies on this thread are about. DOC needs to offer more for prisoners. As I and others have said above. Give people some things to roleplay and do within DOC and maybe they will not be bored and hate it so much. As of now people punch, stand, and walk inside DOC. Those are the three actions that show the full extent of current RP in DOC. A hall, cells, and isolation area. Those three minor spaces and nothing else facilitate minimal RP. " The fact of the matter, there is very little difference between sitting in prison RPing or sitting next to the 24/7 behind bank RPing. You can talk to people, roleplay, do whatever. ". If there is no difference in setting, environment or roleplay standards between the bank , 24/7 or the Prison than there is a serious problem here. I hope other people would see that.

 

17 minutes ago, RickyB said:

100% hit the nail on the head of the CORE issue. As someone with extensive OOC corrections knowledge who ultimately would love to work for SADOC, calling the prison RP on this server lacking would probably be too kind. I am honestly astonished that DOC is so far behind the other factions in RP. Is there even anyone at the DOC helm setting a threshold? There appear to be enough employees, facilities and im sure creative minds in the DOC to make the RP everyone has been asking for happen. 

Thanks, appreciate it. I'm not here to argue with any staff or bad mouth DOC I am simply saying what I have heard and observed personally about DOC. I'm tempted to say what needs to happen, but I already did in a above reply so I'm not going to repeat myself. Bottom line is there is so little RP to be had in Prison it's almost considered OOC jail to most people in their head. That is a problem that needs to be addressed and it seems like a lot of people just want to dance around the DOC issue and talk about sentencing.

Edited July 31, 2019 by James_McNulty

[Xoza]

-1

I support the following summarized discussions..

• This is an RP server, not Cops/Robbers
• Bring more activity to Citizens, to discourage high crime. (Actually a lot has been added recently).
• Bring more activity to DOC
• Be smarter about being a criminal.
• Understand that being a criminal has consequences.
• Don't make a 1 hour crime turn into an 8 hour crime.

[Brandon Powers]

I just got told to shut my mouth so im going to tell you to shut yours.

[James_McNulty]

17 minutes ago, Brandon Powers said:

I just got told to shut my mouth so im going to tell you to shut yours.

You have been posting borderline nonesense spam and insults all over the server suggestions section the last half hour. Has your account been compromised or are you just upset or something?. 

[Msato]

+1 To this. I rarely end up going to prison, I've done 2 sentences in my 8 months on the server as a criminal but I still feel that there should be a limit to the amount of time you can spend in prison. Before the whole charge reset I was looking at serving around 50 hours in prison since the new update was introduced. Yes, this was months of charges but lets take this as an example.

1. I'll get caught eventually and have to spend 10+ hours minimum in one sitting with 0 AFK.
- This is a terrible experience considering the attitude of prison guards (end up in lockdown 50% of the time with 0 explanation) and refusing to engage in RP, instead of salary farming looking down on you from the bridge.
- Perhaps re-allow people to AFK their sentence or even introduce it so the sentence goes down when offline on that character at 0.25x speed. It could also be introduced that if they want to AFK they must sit inside a cell to do so, this will disrupt others RP even less.

2. Prison Stamps
- These need a full rework as much of a shame as is this is, the system is good in theory but the time stamps reduce your time per amount spent in unbalanced, never mind the 1.5k buy-in for poker.
- Increase the value of stamps by lowering the costs of items/lowering prison poker costs and convert the stamps to a real currency so they're not lost on death in the prison (90% falling through the floor)

As for the people claiming "Oh I've hit my jtime cap time to go crazy with crime" this is not the case for any criminal - with the introduction of debt the fines are a large factor and help prevent criminals from going wild. At the end of the day, criminals are still going to commit crime even if they have/haven't reached their jail time cap.

Overall I believe that there should be a cap somewhere in the range of 4-6 hours which is still a lot of time to be punished. I work 40 hours a week, coming home after work to the thought of spending 3/5 weeknights sitting basically AFK is not a good way to be punished as it feels like more of an OOC punishment rather than IC. 

[James_McNulty]

4 minutes ago, CallumMontie said:

+1 To this. I rarely end up going to prison, I've done 2 sentences in my 8 months on the server as a criminal but I still feel that there should be a limit to the amount of time you can spend in prison. Before the whole charge reset I was looking at serving around 50 hours in prison since the new update was introduced. Yes, this was months of charges but lets take this as an example.

1. I'll get caught eventually and have to spend 10+ hours minimum in one sitting with 0 AFK.
- This is a terrible experience considering the attitude of prison guards (end up in lockdown 50% of the time with 0 explanation) and refusing to engage in RP, instead of salary farming looking down on you from the bridge.
- Perhaps re-allow people to AFK their sentence or even introduce it so the sentence goes down when offline on that character at 0.25x speed. It could also be introduced that if they want to AFK they must sit inside a cell to do so, this will disrupt others RP even less.

2. Prison Stamps
- These need a full rework as much of a shame as is this is, the system is good in theory but the time stamps reduce your time per amount spent in unbalanced, never mind the 1.5k buy-in for poker.
- Increase the value of stamps by lowering the costs of items/lowering prison poker costs and convert the stamps to a real currency so they're not lost on death in the prison (90% falling through the floor)

As for the people claiming "Oh I've hit my jtime cap time to go crazy with crime" this is not the case for any criminal - with the introduction of debt the fines are a large factor and help prevent criminals from going wild. At the end of the day, criminals are still going to commit crime even if they have/haven't reached their jail time cap.

Overall I believe that there should be a cap somewhere in the range of 4-6 hours which is still a lot of time to be punished. I work 40 hours a week, coming home after work to the thought of spending 3/5 weeknights sitting basically AFK is not a good way to be punished as it feels like more of an OOC punishment rather than IC. 

 

" coming home after work to the thought of spending 3/5 weeknights sitting basically AFK is not a good way to be punished as it feels like more of an OOC punishment rather than IC. " 

 

That above quote to me indicates that DOC roleplay is so minimal it's not even considered an IC situation or Prison. It's being fully embraced as an OOC jail and people are treating it as such and AFK'ing and stuff.

The fact we have people arguing and formulating statements in defense of AFK'ing in Prison/Jail alone should prove that there is a deeper rooted issue here that is not being addressed. In no way shape or form should any form of AFK'ing be tolerated, more a less moderated and allowed. If we are really at this point then it should be evident that something is wrong with the prison system and structure here. 

Edited July 31, 2019 by James_McNulty

[Brandon Powers]

6 minutes ago, James_McNulty said:

You have been posting borderline nonesense spam and insults all over the server suggestions section the last half hour. Has your account been compromised or are you just upset or something?. 

Prison times need to be unlocked for server progression, i rather enjoyed LSRPs long prison times it was interesting to beat people up and run a prison.

[James_McNulty]

6 minutes ago, Brandon Powers said:

Prison times need to be unlocked for server progression, i rather enjoyed LSRPs long prison times it was interesting to beat people up and run a prison.

Funny you mention that a lot of the suggestions I have for activities and routines for DOC here were taken from my time and what I saw when I RP'ed on the server you mentioned near a decade ago. In that server Inmates had routines, activities, inspections, meals, so much going on during the day and night. If there is roleplay going on and options for inmates they will not AFK in prison. If there is not, they will. I remember on that server a high risk inmate got transferred in and he had 72 ACTUAL hours to serve. But it was not a problem to him. Know why?. Because there was so much RP to be had in DOC. As mentioned before, the yard , cafeteria, cell inspection, laundry detail, so many things the guards RP'ed with the prisoners to pass the time. Meanwhile here you have a mine, whoopdy doo. There needs to be some serious changes with the Prison and DOC and this entire issue will resolve itself. 

Edited July 31, 2019 by James_McNulty

[Brandon Powers]

Maybe like a 10 hour cap to start? Until we get bigger.

[Goonaxe]

I fully agree with OP. I don't think anyone is expecting to have an experience as a criminal RPer free of consequences. But I can't justify being placed in there for so long, it's like an extra day of work. It really takes the right kind of people to make DOC enjoyable, but that doesn't seem to be commonplace. I've seen some DOC guards taking the initiative to try and do things like yard time, and running chow lines. There's been a few things added by the server team that are a massive step in the right direction, I think the poker, and Mining is at least a step forward. But as I've stated that's really not the common experience you're going to receive as an inmate.

Most of the time however there are things such as mass punishment lock down being used for extended periods of time. There are frequently inmates either DMing each other with fist fights with little to no RP, or I assume they're just flat out AFKing with Rage open in another monitor. I've been placed in solitary for 4 hours on what was supposed to be a hour long stint. Because there was flat out no one to open the hallway door online. And the frequent loss of items for being imprisoned, I'm talking non-crime related cannot be retrieved. Either it goes missing from evidence, or never arrives there. When I've been given things to keep OOCly, I've lost them falling through the prison.

I wouldn't mind spending two,three, even four hours in prison if you can find the right people to trade stories with. Prison experience can be very enjoyable ICly if you get the right group. However I've not found that to be far from the average experience. I don't believe this is a criminal versus civilian or anyone issue. I purely support this because I think overall it would be an improvement to the welfare of the entire community.  I've seen a massive improvement in the quality of DOC guard RP recently as a criminal main, my support of this isn't a shot at them in any way.

"This prison is fucking wack bro." -Mahatma Gandhi 1920

[SlickyRicky]

Maybe if civilian rp was interesting there wouldn’t be a cop / criminal problem. Sorry but I tried civilian rp and it was rather boring for my taste. Cop rp sounds fun but a bit more complex than I’d like so yea criminal is the path I take. It just sucks that the fines are ridiculous, charges stack insanely, and the time in jail is usually spent alone..... so much fun. 

The prison needs some things to keep you occupied. My rp basically stops once the guards leave and I just play on my phone and time out to afk math. 

Basically just make civilian rp have more options like jobs where you work with other people that doesn’t require knowledge of a long code system like cops and ems. Pretty much more like the mechanics jobs or something. 

[Steve1098]

On 7/31/2019 at 12:20 AM, Marca said:

If anything, reduced jail time should be earned, not given just because people want it. Officers will already reward people for good RP, so there's also that.

I have a couple of things to point out, bearing in mind I have not spent any time in jail and have little familiarity of the rules of being jailed. From what I gather you can't leave the game when in jail, if so, why not? Nearly 9 hours is a lot of time to stay online, can you not just respawn in jail at next sign on?

Secondly, working in jail for a significant amount of time has an incredibly insignificant reward re: reduced jail time. You say that reduced time should be earned (which I'm sure nobody will disagree with) but surely 30 minutes of mining should earn more than 1 minute off of your sentence? Perhaps minute for minute? Or a minute for 30s reduced?

Overall, I'm against a cap on jail time. You should respect life as though it was real according to the rules so killing 3 cops, yeah, that deserves a hefty sentence, but surely the prisoners should have sufficient material to RP in-game while in jail. Maybe be able to play basketball, work to reduce sentencing (fairly), and have further jail time added for dm'ing, etc.

I know prisoner shouldn't offer rewards but there should at least be something to do besides sitting on your hands trying not to annoy a prison officer who will lock you in solitary for no good reason.