Chebbidy Posted July 30, 2019 Report Share Posted July 30, 2019 Hi there, I'm pretty sure that everyone here is aware that since the introduction of extended prison sentences, a lot of people remain unhappy. Whilst I can agree that the introduction of extended sentences was something that was introduced on the basis of promoting civilian RP, I want to throw my points out there to see if any changes can be made. I sincerely believe that the removal of AFK whilst being jailed was a poor choice. I understand why it was added, however, it's critically unfair to criminals who have been jailed where charges have been wrongfully or generously stacked based on their criminal actions. What I believe would be beneficial is capped prison sentences. I think the way it used to work was too fair to criminals, however. I think a cap would be better introduced at around 6/7/8000 seconds dependent on the criminals actions or prior convictions. I don't think that sending people to jail for 37,000 seconds is going to promote any kind of roleplay other than standing around and answering the occasional /afkmath. All it does is impact criminal rp to the point where noone wants to do it anymore. I get that was the sole point anyway, but this is Grand Theft Auto, and realism isn't always fun. The only real people that benefit from this is generally the police department, who face next to no losses for an rp situation where they may not win. We're talking about people who already gain benefits from choosing that rp pathway. They don't have to pay for their own vehicles, equipment or anything else. Getting killed ICly means very little to police officers. They will respawn at PD with no financial deductions. They are equipped with high power weaponry, body armour, helicopters, insurgents and ridiculously fast cruisers. At the moment I find myself punished enough for choosing a criminal pathway. Everytime I go to jail I face ridiculous charges (most likely puts me in debt) my car gets impounded (more $$$) and on top of that I have to serve an insufferable sentence in which i'm punched at random intervals, and half an hour of mining reduces my sentence by a minute? The introduction of the stamps system was pointless as the rewards are so minimal you're better off sitting in your cell. I find myself looking for roleplay in jail, however these rp standards remain the same. There are most of the time hardly any prison guards online during the week. Other than that, a lot of the rp is people just dming each other. 12 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalvinKlein Posted July 30, 2019 Report Share Posted July 30, 2019 Oh sometimes they lock you in a cell or solitary for 4,5 hours because "they don't like you " 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenichis Posted July 30, 2019 Report Share Posted July 30, 2019 I agree with some of what you're saying. I don't think they should revert back, just make more incentive to make good rp in prison. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrus Raven Posted July 30, 2019 Report Share Posted July 30, 2019 Can't really give a +1 or -1 right now. I think something should be done to encourage Civilian RP, but I also recognize that the cost of being a criminal vs being a police officer is very unbalanced. As an officer, I am given all of my equipment, fully loaded (actually more ammo than a normal gun at around 140 rounds for the pistol), vehicles (which I can repair at any point at no cost) and the consequences of me dying or having an RP situation not pan out is essentially nothing (in terms of monetary value or time-wise either). Now, don't get me wrong, I am not pointing this out to say that there is something inherently wrong with how PD works, but just an observation that criminal RP seems to have a ton of consequences and frankly very little to gain from it. 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chebbidy Posted July 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2019 8 hours ago, Kyle White Raven said: Can't really give a +1 or -1 right now. I think something should be done to encourage Civilian RP, but I also recognize that the cost of being a criminal vs being a police officer is very unbalanced. As an officer, I am given all of my equipment, fully loaded (actually more ammo than a normal gun at around 140 rounds for the pistol), vehicles (which I can repair at any point at no cost) and the consequences of me dying or having an RP situation not pan out is essentially nothing (in terms of monetary value or time-wise either). Now, don't get me wrong, I am not pointing this out to say that there is something inherently wrong with how PD works, but just an observation that criminal RP seems to have a ton of consequences and frankly very little to gain from it. Thank you for your perspective. This is what I was looking for. A very well worded response. Commendations to you sir. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flucifial Posted July 30, 2019 Report Share Posted July 30, 2019 Neutral. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCactus Posted July 30, 2019 Report Share Posted July 30, 2019 There should be a cap, yes. It should be smaller than 4 hours, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester Posted July 30, 2019 Report Share Posted July 30, 2019 +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riderz Posted July 30, 2019 Report Share Posted July 30, 2019 +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubsmeister Posted July 30, 2019 Report Share Posted July 30, 2019 Yesterday this happened: https://youtu.be/vfOpQyVJk50 Me and Benjamin got pulled over by police while we happened to have heavies equipped. We tried to play it cool and we RP'd as criminals to the best of our abilities, ultimately deciding that our best chances was to try and attempt a shootout with the first responders. Sadly, didn't end well for us and we got caught. That's fine, part of the experience part of the game. Whats not fine is that once I am brought to DOC I am greeted with this. Not only do I have to spent a wopping 8,8 HOURS at my pc doing basically nothing in DOC, I have also been robbed of 75k by the government. And all this for one shootout. These punishments are very harsh for only one shootout and should definitely be adjusted, so it's gonna be a solid +1 from me. In my opinion, you should either be able to log out during your sentence or their should be a cap at 2 hours. As the system is right now, you are punished more severly for RP'ing as a criminal then breaking the rules, which is absolute insanity 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenichis Posted July 30, 2019 Report Share Posted July 30, 2019 13 minutes ago, Rubsmeister said: Not only do I have to spent a wopping 8,8 HOURS at my pc doing basically nothing in DOC, I have also been robbed of 75k by the government. F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marca Posted July 30, 2019 Report Share Posted July 30, 2019 What about the mentality of "I reached my OOC cap, guess I'll keep doing more crimes IC"? People took advantage of that very heavily before and they will do it again. I don't think that introducing an OOC cap IC is the way to tackle this. To the post above where 2 guys get out of the car with heavy weapons and start killing cops, what was the logic behind that? You killed 3 cops, had heavy weaponry, resisted arrest and felony evaded + whatever previous crimes they did. Doing that will get you locked up for life IRL. 8 hours of prison may be a bit harsh, but it's honestly something that should be expected. The two players obviously did not care about the consequences of their actions, thinking they'll get away with it and not be charged with any crimes. And if they were already at their OOC jail time cap, it also wouldn't make a difference. That is the sort of mentality that has to stop, thinking that every gunfight has to end in a win and that there would be OOC systems in place to protect you IC, for actions you have committed because you wanted to. Your 8 hour jail time could've been way lower and that's the simple truth. Sometimes it's better to give up, but in the end, IC consequences for IC actions. Also lets be honest, there was absolutely 0 RP in that shootout. Drove off, got out, shoot, try to get back in and drive away. That's not really RP to me, if anything, sounds a lot like GTAO. Also not sure why you should be rewarded for doing that OOC'ly with a reduced jail time, but to each their own. If anything, reduced jail time should be earned, not given just because people want it. Officers will already reward people for good RP, so there's also that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_McNulty Posted July 30, 2019 Report Share Posted July 30, 2019 (edited) What if DOC actually had the assets and ability and potential to offer RP for the prisoners to take part in so people won't WANT to AFK in Prison. This is all band aids on an issue that is much larger. Everyone seems to just listen to music or AFK in Prison because there is little to no roleplay to be had inside ( so I hear from people, I'm not implying or insulting DOC as a faction ). I see nothing wrong with 4-6 hour and other heavy sentences for series felonies that stack. Imagine if DOC was more than a hall and cells and some isolation units. Why can't there be scheduled activities and routine roleplay for the prisoners to do?. Some basic ideas below. - New Prisoner Intake / Gang Tattoo Affiliation Checks - Laundry Detail - Yard / Weight area - Cafeteria and Meals - Cell Inspection - Role Call - Etc... It seems that the community is legit split on this. One side we have the legal factions (LSPD, Sheriff's , EMS ) who are outnumbered and outgunned as well as robbed and face legit car chases and gun fights all day who think its fair to have heavy jail sentences. On the other we have the criminals and illegal factions that already get a low reward for their activities but now face high risk of lengthy imprisonment. And since there is no RP to be had within the prison everyone wants to NOT be there. At all. Or for as little time as possible. That is not good. People should WANT to roleplay within Department Of Corrections. They should NOT want to AFK, listen to music and enable AFK script avoiding binds , etc. I have heard from 4-6 different people and all of them have said there is only people AFK'ing in DOC or beating eachother up and getting put in isolation. That's the full extent of what goes on from what I have heard so far. That is downright unacceptable IMO. In Summary, has anyone thought that maybe the Prison Environment is the problem and not the time your spending within it?. Edited July 30, 2019 by James_McNulty 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SophieBlitz Posted July 30, 2019 Report Share Posted July 30, 2019 (edited) +1 If this city was meant to be civilian RP only, with no criminal activity at all- there should not have been gangs allowed period. Right now Prison RP is identical to being put in jail for admin offences- except you can kill people if you want. A large amount of the population is made up of the gangs, and thus we should be represented more fairly when it comes to this stuff. If you want to make prison more of an IN CHARACTER punishment instead of an OOC punishment, add schedules like a normal IRL prison: Example: You have to be in your cell for a certain amount of time, then have to leave and eat breakfast, maybe clean the showers, then go outside and interact Maybe if criminals are doing well in the prison by following their schedule or being nice, their prison time can decrease on good behavior. Guards should be on patrol more often Simply saying "you're here for 8 hours, go mine if you want to or dont- but you have to stay active every 15 minutes.." is ridiculous and not rewarding/fun OR REALISTIC. If the infinite sentence cap was designed to make RP feel more realistic, then within the prison needs to be more realistic as well. Edited July 30, 2019 by SophieBlitz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_McNulty Posted July 30, 2019 Report Share Posted July 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, SophieBlitz said: +1 If this city was meant to be civilian RP only, with no criminal activity at all- there should not have been gangs allowed period. Right now Prison RP is identical to being put in jail for admin offences- except you can kill people if you want. A large amount of the population is made up of the gangs, and thus we should be represented more fairly when it comes to this stuff. If you want to make prison more of an IN CHARACTER punishment instead of an OOC punishment, add schedules like a normal IRL prison: Example: You have to be in your cell for a certain amount of time, then have to leave and eat breakfast, maybe clean the showers, then go outside and interact Maybe if criminals are doing well in the prison by following their schedule or being nice, their prison time can decrease on good behavior. Guards should be on patrol more often Simply saying "you're here for 8 hours, go mine if you want to or dont- but you have to stay active every 15 minutes.." is ridiculous and not rewarding/fun OR REALISTIC. If the infinite sentence cap was designed to make RP feel more realistic, then within the prison needs to be more realistic as well. Exactly what I mentioned above, DOC is the issue and the lack of roleplay within it. It's not about the time. It's about what is going on during that time. Which it seems the majority of the time is nothing. There needs to be a large overhaul with DOC, and I'm not talking about staff I'm talking about giving them new interiors/exteriors and diversifying the facility to be more RP encouraging. Right now as he said and others feel it is practically an OOC Administrative Prison at this point with the stagnant roleplay and or complete lack there of it. As previously stated, it's about the place your in not the time spent within it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubsmeister Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Marca said: What about the mentality of "I reached my OOC cap, guess I'll keep doing more crimes IC"? People took advantage of that very heavily before and they will do it again. I don't think that introducing an OOC cap IC is the way to tackle this. To the post above where 2 guys get out of the car with heavy weapons and start killing cops, what was the logic behind that? You killed 3 cops, had heavy weaponry, resisted arrest and felony evaded + whatever previous crimes they did. Doing that will get you locked up for life IRL. 8 hours of prison may be a bit harsh, but it's honestly something that should be expected. The two players obviously did not care about the consequences of their actions, thinking they'll get away with it and not be charged with any crimes. And if they were already at their OOC jail time cap, it also wouldn't make a difference. That is the sort of mentality that has to stop, thinking that every gunfight has to end in a win and that there would be OOC systems in place to protect you IC, for actions you have committed because you wanted to. Your 8 hour jail time could've been way lower and that's the simple truth. Sometimes it's better to give up, but in the end, IC consequences for IC actions. Also lets be honest, there was absolutely 0 RP in that shootout. Drove off, got out, shoot, try to get back in and drive away. That's not really RP to me, if anything, sounds a lot like GTAO. Also not sure why you should be rewarded for doing that OOC'ly with a reduced jail time, but to each their own. If anything, reduced jail time should be earned, not given just because people want it. Officers will already reward people for good RP, so there's also that. What is the logic behind killing cops? Not wanting to get arrested? This mentality that comes from PD players that if criminals don’t just surrender as soon as they hear sirens it’s “bad RP” has to stop. I am playing the server within the rules and RP’ing as a criminal the way I like too. Don’t like my playstyle/RP? That’s fine. What is ridicolous is that you seem to think it’s normal to get punished OOC’ly for the way my character conducts itself. Let’s see how great you think this prison system is once you actually try playing as a criminal instead of constantly just bashing the way criminals play Edited July 31, 2019 by Rubsmeister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenichis Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 2 hours ago, James_McNulty said: In Summary, has anyone thought that maybe the Prison Environment is the problem and not the time your spending within it?. I completely agree, they should add things to do in prison like maybe working or other things to reduce prison time. There is currently a system like that using the mining mechanic but the reward you get is so trivial its not even worth trying. I would be thrilled to see more social jobs in prison like maybe doing laundry and needing 2 people to do efficiently (1 to wash and another to transport) to encourage socializing in prison instead of being afk. Prison right now just feels like a chore instead of playing a roleplaying game, I get that consequenses are needed but punishing the PLAYER and not the character by locking them out of good RP is not the way to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OBESE Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 All these crybabies would be like: 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCactus Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 3 hours ago, Rubsmeister said: Yesterday this happened: https://youtu.be/vfOpQyVJk50 Me and Benjamin got pulled over by police while we happened to have heavies equipped. We tried to play it cool and we RP'd as criminals to the best of our abilities, ultimately deciding that our best chances was to try and attempt a shootout with the first responders. Sadly, didn't end well for us and we got caught. That's fine, part of the experience part of the game. Whats not fine is that once I am brought to DOC I am greeted with this. Not only do I have to spent a wopping 8,8 HOURS at my pc doing basically nothing in DOC, I have also been robbed of 75k by the government. And all this for one shootout. These punishments are very harsh for only one shootout and should definitely be adjusted, so it's gonna be a solid +1 from me. In my opinion, you should either be able to log out during your sentence or their should be a cap at 2 hours. As the system is right now, you are punished more severly for RP'ing as a criminal then breaking the rules, which is absolute insanity Dude, what you did there is a massacre. You deserved all that. You shouldve played smarter if you wanted to escape at all costs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubsmeister Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 15 minutes ago, TheCactus said: Dude, what you did there is a massacre. You deserved all that. You shouldve played smarter if you wanted to escape at all costs. How did I “deserve” to spend 8 hours of my life doing basically nothing? I didn’t commit an actual massacre, this was recorded in a video game. Why should I be punished OOCly for that? Ofcourse I should have gone to jail after what I did because that RPly makes sense but to then make jail excruciatingly bad does not. I am not asking to be teleported back to my house once I get arrested or caught by police, I am just asking to not get punished simply because I choose to play as a criminal that isn’t a little bitch and surrenders at the first sign of trouble 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OBESE Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 A lot of people have been giving their negative experiences on constant robberies for no reason, the fact that gangs are ruling the streets, but somehow no one who plays criminal gave jack shit about the bad experiences that was being given to civilian players and new players on the server and now you think we should give a shit about the fact that you are not a smart criminal and play as you used to only this time you get a harsh punishment? Dont think so! Im happy for you all criminals sitting in prison for 8hrs. Makes my gameplay more relaxed and happier. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_McNulty Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 (edited) 40 minutes ago, Rubsmeister said: How did I “deserve” to spend 8 hours of my life doing basically nothing? I didn’t commit an actual massacre, this was recorded in a video game. Why should I be punished OOCly for that? Are you aware this is a roleplay server and not a cops and robbers server?. Also even though DOC may not have good RP and be called "boring" does not magically make it OOC jail even though you may call it so. I mean you did say you consider the prison OOC punishment. Also in regards to your specific example with your chase/ambush alley shootout with LSPD. That was legit a chosen decision to stop your evasion efforts and deploy an attack. If you and your associate had used your sports vehicle appropriately and eluded the police in it and avoided the shootout that would have changed your sentence a lot. But of course that is not what your characters decided to do. You guys decided instead of continuing to run in your vehicle...-.. to stop and deploy an ambush on the pursuing officers. Had you just continued to drive you may have actually gotten away. But nope, you guys instead decided to break out the rifles and bang out with the LSPD in an alley instead. That was your characters personal decision(s) and your sentencing time reflects that. Edited July 31, 2019 by James_McNulty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CycloneDavid Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 I'm neutral on this one. I've chosen the "honest working citizen" approach for my time on this server, and man its hard to keep it that way when you do jobs that are easy targets to criminals. The money that can be made as a criminal in 1 sitting if your not caught for anything by far outweighs what a normal citizen will make driving a truck or a cab, so I think its a risk you take to get involved with it. On the other hand PD earn a good chunk of money and have everything provided, but I guess so they should. Maybe an approach would be to consider the option that if you die you can't return to duties for a certain period of time? You can watch countless youtube videos of other servers that have AI traffic to disguise/protect honest civilians, but on the other hand can also help criminals to out-run authority and try to mingle in with the AI in attempts to go undetected and get away with it. AI is b.s., but perhaps is a small amount of AI introduced into the game might not be a bad idea for both parties? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Carter Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 15 minutes ago, CycloneDavid said: You can watch countless youtube videos of other servers that have AI traffic to disguise/protect honest civilians, but on the other hand can also help criminals to out-run authority and try to mingle in with the AI in attempts to go undetected and get away with it. AI is b.s., but perhaps is a small amount of AI introduced into the game might not be a bad idea for both parties? I think this would be great, there must be some reasons why it isn't the case, though I'm not sure what they could be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CycloneDavid Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Malcolm Carter said: I think this would be great, there must be some reasons why it isn't the case, though I'm not sure what they could be The more I think about the more I believe this might be a good option. When you watch those vids civilians are driving to speed limits and following road rules whether they are criminals or not (in most cases), and that's because they don't know who the real players are, and visa versa. If I drive to the speed limits and road rules in this server I don't stand a chance. Criminals can commit crimes, evade police, and disguise within normal traffic in attempts of going undetected. AI protection provides less robberies which also allows the PD to setup proper speed traps, etc as well, but like you said, are there issues preventing this? Edited July 31, 2019 by CycloneDavid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
