Malcolm Carter Posted July 4, 2019 Report Share Posted July 4, 2019 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Aldarine said: I don't think it is necessary to start name calling (ie: "most boring person in the world"). You are correct that this is indeed a game but at the same time it is a roleplaying server. What I believe alex is getting at is that at the end of the day if you are roleplaying a criminal and committing crimes/misbehaving then that is your roleplayed choice and therefore you are subject to the downside of that. The exact same can be said for leaving your car unlocked, disobeying demands, etc. It is completely your choice within the game to roleplay these actions which all then have consequences. And the point that so many people have made on the forums since the update is that these consequences are far too harsh. Yes, it's a roleplay server. So we shouldn't be putting people in solitary confinement where they literally cannot roleplay! I really wish people with police characters would stop throwing around the "actions have consequences" mantra. They need to realise that criminals and police are codependent for fun and exciting roleplay scenarios, and by placing these enormous OOC punishments on criminal players (multiple un-AFKable hours in a virtual jail is without a doubt an OOC punishment, there is still nothing to do), they are totally killing the criminal side of the server, which a sizeable majority prefer to play. Implementing cycles of debt, increasing sentences and the fines you receive all just contribute to making the server less fun. Of course people with cop characters won't care, they still get their steady hourly income, never risk any personal assets, can speed through camera zones in their cop cars and so on. I totally understand the perspective of 'criminal characters ruin the experience for law-abiding players by robbing them', but the 'hands up this is a robbery' culture can be changed by more positive measures. More criminal-focused updates; give criminals more to do, more rewards for the risk they take, and give them more opportunities fight amongst themselves instead of forcing them to go preying on civilians. The server is a police state right now. Speed in the city in a stolen car not registered to you? You've now got an automatic reckless driving charge on your head (total non-RP). Now you're wanted. Got an illegal handgun because you cannot ever get a license for committing a misdemeanour offence 6 months ago? Well unlucky pal, either never carry a gun or be wanted forever. Get pulled over by a cop who just ran your plates and try to drive off to evade them? Better hope you're driving one of the couple of expensive cars that can actually outrun a cruiser. And, even if you are, good luck to you because they've already got a chopper in the air and can x-ray for your exact location. Get shot in the head when they finally catch up to you? Well, no death RP for you because they just spent 20 minutes chasing you and there needs to be 'consequences for your actions!'. Now, take this 50k fine and go to jail for 5+ IRL hours, which you now can't AFK. But we've got lots of great content in prison, like drilling rocks and dropping them off. Amazing! What a great update, thanks guys. TL;DR it's a game, actions should have some consequences sure, but they should be balanced and not waste hours of player's time on non-content Edited July 4, 2019 by Malcolm Carter 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Powers Posted July 4, 2019 Report Share Posted July 4, 2019 (edited) 17 hours ago, money said: This is what the development team wants, some kind of Alternate RP experience where you live out your criminal life in prison for long periods of time, You say 120 minutes, what about 3 weeks in prison? I think its a too idealistic idea, it sounds nice, if you are not the one in prison. Its just not possible to simulate this accurately. Its like how a person imagines prison to be like, all this danger and gangs etc. meanwhile its just mental torture sitting in a box with nothing to do. DOC was a mistake The only way to make a proper punishment system is to say, You cant earn any money, but your debt to society is repaid when you catch 100 fish, or collect 100 ore, or something similar. Hard Labour. Getting 3 weeks in prison is going to possibly destroy this server, the long prison times are a deterrence to businessmen flipping their real profits from legit jobs, and its going to work but might generate a massive downturn in donations or other activity. I'm a farmer myself right now, and i have noticed a huge influx of farmers swarming to the fields to avoid the dangers of criminal behavior. I agree this pressure is needed on real life behaviour to improve our lives overall in the game, but I think it might have been deployed to early, if we had the judicial system in place first it might have been more agreeable. Edited July 4, 2019 by Brandon Powers Added word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reckless311 Posted July 4, 2019 Report Share Posted July 4, 2019 (edited) Being a criminal is a choice. You know there are severe consequences and you choose to still do it. The old way offered no deterrence and now everyone is up in arms that they can't be a heinous, ruthless criminal and get out in 8 hours of prison (IC). The solution is be smarter about your crime and don't get caught. Civs were often stuck running for their lives to do ANYTHING, not being able to enjoy RP because of the overwhelming threat that they faced every second in town. Criminals had no regard and no fear. Now you do. Live with the fear like civs have had to. Edited July 4, 2019 by Reckless311 Corrections 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexalex303 Posted July 4, 2019 Report Share Posted July 4, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Malcolm Carter said: Are you actually the most boring person in the world? At the end of the day this is a game, and nobody wants to spend their free time sitting on their own in a little cell in a video game for hours on end for "misbehaving" in a virtual prison In role-play, your IC actions have IC consequences. You can call anything you don't like an "ooc punishment" but it doesn't invalidate the fact that is is completely in-character. No one should have to get attacked every 15 minutes by the same prisoner because you want your action in an RP server. GTA Online allows you to experience as much action as you want without consequences, but this isn't the place for that. Edited July 4, 2019 by alexalex303 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flucifial Posted July 4, 2019 Report Share Posted July 4, 2019 Any arguments that are not about the suggestion itself can be taken elsewhere, this is where we provide feedback on the actual suggestion not the comments of other players. -1 from me on the actual suggestion; People don't need to be stacking up a multitude of charges at a time if they cannot suffer the consequences! - Flucifial 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrUntouchable215 Posted July 4, 2019 Report Share Posted July 4, 2019 Are we just going to continue to act like criminals have other shit to do than make drugs and rob people? I'm confused as to where these "Consequences" keep coming from. The market right now is NOT realistic in any way. I've seen players try to make their own businesses like uber and such and it flops every time because it just isn't set up that way. People die and respawn, cops die and respawn and don't lose anything. Where are the consequences to your actions? If PD actually acted like cops, I'd be saying something totally different but these dudes show up to labs they already know the location of and shut it down for hours on end. I saw MD destroying a lab with combat pistols, hello? Just say OOCly you don't want crime, for the love of God. Say you want the server to be crime free and people will stop arguing the point. All I see from PD these days are old gangsters that couldn't make it in the criminal world so they put on body armor and do what they want for free and we are seriously just going to sit here and ignore that, it's amazing honestly. Let me just change my last name, fill out a PD job application and be set, no worries. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padpilot Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 This is the biggest excuse for the big guys to really start coming together, planning things out and changing the city. There are numerous ways to fuck this system up that much IC that they are forced to change it. the combined might of The Council needs to react to this. Why cant we attempt to fix this in-game? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riderz Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, alexalex303 said: In role-play, your IC actions have IC consequences. You can call anything you don't like an "ooc punishment" but it doesn't invalidate the fact that is is completely in-character. No one should have to get attacked every 15 minutes by the same prisoner because you want your action in an RP server. GTA Online allows you to experience as much action as you want without consequences, but this isn't the place for that. Great! Then you agree cops deserve some consequence for arresting someone for these charges like being kidnapped, executed, issued a hit on etc correct? Cause if you want to place additional charges on someone then you can enjoy the consequence of the retaliation from the gangs. As a cop has no better security then a soccer mom Edited July 5, 2019 by Tezhl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMILE_ Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 I had friends who used to play in this server, they stopped playing because they always got robbed and arrested for nothing, like %80 of prisons are abused by cops or speed cameras why we need to make everything so hard to play in this game, the application part of this server is taking over a month, they start playing and first impression of the server is bad because they always get ticket because they don't even know about speed cameras, they work to pay them tickets and go to jail for 2 hours, why for god sake everything is so hardcore let them people get the experience they want why sitting 24 hours in jail would make the game fun? this is stupid My friend had black character and always got bothered by cops, he was a new player he got arrested for 2 hours(max sentence) you know for what? reckless driving while trying to make money to pay tickets because no one told him there are cameras around, while making money to pay tickets he got in trouble and had to wait 2 hours, lost his time his car and his money, good job eclipse making everything so hardcore +1 stop people being so heavy and let everyone play and enjoy the game instead of comparing everything to irl stuff, this is a game we want to have fun at all making progress is so cancer for new players that they give up 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCanadian Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, MrUntouchable215 said: Are we just going to continue to act like criminals have other shit to do than make drugs and rob people? I'm confused as to where these "Consequences" keep coming from. The market right now is NOT realistic in any way. I've seen players try to make their own businesses like uber and such and it flops every time because it just isn't set up that way. People die and respawn, cops die and respawn and don't lose anything. Where are the consequences to your actions? If PD actually acted like cops, I'd be saying something totally different but these dudes show up to labs they already know the location of and shut it down for hours on end. I saw MD destroying a lab with combat pistols, hello? Just say OOCly you don't want crime, for the love of God. Say you want the server to be crime free and people will stop arguing the point. All I see from PD these days are old gangsters that couldn't make it in the criminal world so they put on body armor and do what they want for free and we are seriously just going to sit here and ignore that, it's amazing honestly. Let me just change my last name, fill out a PD job application and be set, no worries. Honestly this seems to be the reasonable solution funnily enough. Rather than hamstring the fuck out of criminal life and claim its to add realism when all it does is completely fuck over those interested in playing a criminally inclined character, why not just say you are trying to remove the majority of crimes on the server. Make criminal life even further difficult and add updates further promoting a civilian lifestyle and script support for that as an incentive for people to move towards legal work. Maybe not 2hrs, but make it a 3-4hr cap. At the end of the day this is a game. Even with the prison script recently added, it is not enough of stuff to do for 2+hours work. The mining in prison did not add enough rp or things to do, neither did the poker. i can't be fucked mining for 10minutes to remove 20seconds off my sentence and from what i saw in the discord general on the update, many feel the same way. This seems to be a weird limbo stage. I say there should be a very clear side and path chosen for further updates. Do you want criminal activity to be common or very scarce? In the past the way the server has behaved it was always very common, and what most non legal faction workers did. If you want to change that, then Okay, go for it. Make illegal life very hard to get into, difficult and punishing.But also make it rewarding for those who dare to do it. I would be against moving the server into a majority legal worker. But i would prefer that being said by the developers so the intentions of the updates are clear and it doesnt feel like they are just trying to fuck over criminals as hard as possible. Potentially add further non-faction legal work script support. Why the fuck would i risk grinding out labs or chopshop when i can make about the same mining with a pounder and avoid 2+hours in jail. Edited July 5, 2019 by TheCanadian 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCanadian Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 1 hour ago, padpilot said: the combined might of The Council needs to react to this. Why cant we attempt to fix this in-game? Because the prison update is an OOC implementation. how would this be solved ICly? "hey mr commissioner, please go back to making the max prison sentence 10 years, kthxbye". There is no mayor, no form of government, its a police state. This cannot be solved ICly. Same way the salary changes wouldnt be able to be solved ICly. its an OOC implementation. Sure we might be able to RP along with it in character, but no changes will come from it without the community speaking out about it on the forums. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padpilot Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 1 hour ago, TheCanadian said: Because the prison update is an OOC implementation. how would this be solved ICly? "hey mr commissioner, please go back to making the max prison sentence 10 years, kthxbye". There is no mayor, no form of government, its a police state. This cannot be solved ICly. Same way the salary changes wouldnt be able to be solved ICly. its an OOC implementation. Sure we might be able to RP along with it in character, but no changes will come from it without the community speaking out about it on the forums. oh ok fair enough, I just figured the impact was felt IC, it could b treated, playfully, as an IC issue, the 24 hours issued to someone is sure as hell an IC issue. I believe a lot can be done IC that can heavily influence outside of the game? i mean, they want people to stop robbing citizens, so what should criminals do, they should rob literally everyone who is not gang affiliated, see how long the changes stay in place for when no one can enter or leave the bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartgg Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 Where are you guys getting the outrageous times for sentences (I.e. “11 days” “3 weeks” prison sentences). Literally nobody except those that abused driving too fast through NCZs suffered from that. (And funnily enough Osvaldon wiped those charges so you road pirates have a second chance) A normal Joe Shmoe criminal who robs a store and evades is gonna get less time than from before the update... please stop thinking that you are gonna go to prison for more than 6 hours. In my opinion, less than 10% of criminals are gonna get above 6 hours when caught. go and take a look at the updated penal code to see new charge amounts (they have been reduced) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennyGribbins Posted July 5, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 49 minutes ago, heartgg said: Where are you guys getting the outrageous times for sentences (I.e. “11 days” “3 weeks” prison sentences). Literally nobody except those that abused driving too fast through NCZs suffered from that. (And funnily enough Osvaldon wiped those charges so you road pirates have a second chance) A normal Joe Shmoe criminal who robs a store and evades is gonna get less time than from before the update... please stop thinking that you are gonna go to prison for more than 6 hours. In my opinion, less than 10% of criminals are gonna get above 6 hours when caught. go and take a look at the updated penal code to see new charge amounts (they have been reduced) well if your like me and get searched because "I look like im in a gang" then you will probably get over 6 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isBrainDed Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 6 minutes ago, kennyGribbins said: well if your like me and get searched because "I look like im in a gang" then you will probably get over 6 hours. To give more info in how much time someone gets today. I arrested someone today for attempted murder of government employee, carrying unlicensed firearm and manufacturing narcotics and the person received 135 minutes jail time I believe. So even though the crimes the person did were serious, they only went to the prison for 15 minutes more than before. Where with the old penal code, attempted murder would get you 150 minutes alone and you would hit 120 min cap with 1 crime 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gohena Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 +1! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizzidy Posted July 6, 2019 Report Share Posted July 6, 2019 On 7/4/2019 at 10:14 AM, Malcolm Carter said: Also, there really needs to be like a 15 minute cap on solitary, if not just a complete removal. The DOC guards use it way too readily and often for your entire sentence. Last time I was in jail I was given 9999 minutes in solitary for disrespecting a guard; they should not have the power to complete remove your opportunity to roleplay in prison. Especially now that you can't AFK it, solitary is a purely OOC punishment. We have policies in place about solitary now. If you feel somebody is abusing solitary since the update, make an IA report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizzidy Posted July 6, 2019 Report Share Posted July 6, 2019 On 7/4/2019 at 3:02 PM, Brandon Powers said: Getting 3 weeks in prison is going to possibly destroy this server, the long prison times are a deterrence to businessmen flipping their real profits from legit jobs, and its going to work but might generate a massive downturn in donations or other activity. I'm a farmer myself right now, and i have noticed a huge influx of farmers swarming to the fields to avoid the dangers of criminal behavior. I agree this pressure is needed on real life behaviour to improve our lives overall in the game, but I think it might have been deployed to early, if we had the judicial system in place first it might have been more agreeable. Nobody is getting 3 weeks, again weve had shootouts and breakouts result in 4-5 hours.... we have not seen any crazy times (that were not a bug) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Powers Posted July 6, 2019 Report Share Posted July 6, 2019 That is good to hear, I was worried at the start about this early release of prison time unlockings, but not any longer, its seemed to make the cops more aggressive in protecting farmers and ensuring the future success of startup companies of all types in the country style towns and throughout the state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zcahman Posted July 9, 2019 Report Share Posted July 9, 2019 On 7/3/2019 at 7:04 PM, money said: I think its a too idealistic idea, it sounds nice, if you are not the one in prison. Its just not possible to simulate this accurately. Its like how a person imagines prison to be like, all this danger and gangs etc. meanwhile its just mental torture sitting in a box with nothing to do. They did it in San Andreas Role Play why cant prison life evolve here too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Powers Posted July 10, 2019 Report Share Posted July 10, 2019 4 hours ago, Zcahman said: They did it in San Andreas Role Play why cant prison life evolve here too? Yeah exactly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie_J Posted July 10, 2019 Report Share Posted July 10, 2019 +1 I personally spend more time in prison doing nothing just wasting my time other than roleplaying with other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete_Stanley Posted July 10, 2019 Report Share Posted July 10, 2019 On 7/2/2019 at 5:26 PM, Chronius420 said: he was clean , also he got 130k fine... i'l give ecrp 2 months , and then police can play without any calls and with 30 players online. is this what staff wants? +1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_McNulty Posted July 12, 2019 Report Share Posted July 12, 2019 -1 Two hours is not that long, especially if you are talking 5-7 serious felony or murder charges. Based on what people are saying here you would think Corrections does no RP and people in jail do nothing but stand in a cell. Is that actually true?. There needs to be scheduled activities and routine RP done within prisons between the guards and inmates. The Yard, food, laundry, etc. People hate Prison so much because they are painfully bored and just want to AFK and listen to their music. I think that longer prison sentences are fine and add to the quality of your RP. Makes you think twice before making what would IC'ly be considered dangerous and illegal decisions. Am I talking four hours for a DUI?, no. But if you rob a bank and bang out with SWAT you should expect to be RP'ing in a Prison for at least 3-4 hours IMO. If we keep the sentences heavy and serious and adapt and evolve the NLR and CK rules this server could go from light to medium RP to a heavier status. Which would be awesome. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Carter Posted July 12, 2019 Report Share Posted July 12, 2019 (edited) 45 minutes ago, James_McNulty said: -1 Two hours is not that long, especially if you are talking 5-7 serious felony or murder charges. Based on what people are saying here you would think Corrections does no RP and people in jail do nothing but stand in a cell. Is that actually true?. There needs to be scheduled activities and routine RP done within prisons between the guards and inmates. The Yard, food, laundry, etc. People hate Prison so much because they are painfully bored and just want to AFK and listen to their music. I think that longer prison sentences are fine and add to the quality of your RP. Makes you think twice before making what would IC'ly be considered dangerous and illegal decisions. Am I talking four hours for a DUI?, no. But if you rob a bank and bang out with SWAT you should expect to be RP'ing in a Prison for at least 3-4 hours IMO. If we keep the sentences heavy and serious and adapt and evolve the NLR and CK rules this server could go from light to medium RP to a heavier status. Which would be awesome. From my experience, it is true that there is no RP in prison. I agree that there should be scheduled activities and routine RP should be pushed, but right now the DOC don't do any of that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pp4poGtA_ec https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AarXjfmHBNM Obviously these videos are just anectodal but this has been my experience of the post-update prison. IMO there was actually more roleplay in prison with the 2 hour cap, because people weren't in for ridiculously long periods they actually engaged with each other instead of just going AFK Edited July 12, 2019 by Malcolm Carter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
