MrUntouchable215

The only concern I have on this is even through leasing, 150k+ should still be considered a sizable amount in my opinion. I only say this because with the amount of blank properties GTA has to offer, there are plenty to spare. If a new-ish player join the server and wanted to open a coffee shop, relevant to his characters back story, he should be able to is my point. Money should only be a driving factor when it comes to making sense of a certain things. For example, how I justify owning a 4G mansion, or how I justify driving around in a Massaro as my daily driver. Yet, not when it limits roleplay to a waiting game. I'd bring something like this up IC but I just don't feel there's a proper way in doing that without some sort of mixing being involved. I'm sure we'd all love to see more businesses being open daily with the goal of giving players things to do and places to socialize, rather than the sole purpose of making cash. You also gotta keep in mind that there's little room for players to make back the money they spend on these properties, as there's little script support in helping them do so. If I ran a coffee shop, selling coffee isn't going to pay back 150k+ anytime in the near future, unless there was a way that business could be funded on another level. I.E, getting hourly paychecks as I'm clocked in to work, as well as selling coffee. These are things we need to keep in mind as a community, that the RP experience is much more important than the cash it can bring. The one thing I'm starting to see as I'm recently coming back is we're more understanding on the need to fix and promote things on an OOC level, rather than an IC one. This is a good thing, because it places down the foundation needed to do things properly IC. We should figure out ways that regular civilians can make money to enhance their RP experience without feeling the need to work at LSC, Bayview, DCC, or anything else for a while until they raise their funds. Take possible backstories into consideration, as not everyone understands how to fix a car or take a bullet out of someone's shoulder. Sorry for the weird and unorganized way of typing, I literally just woke up and didn't get a slurp of coffee yet.

I'm going to skip wide detail and just list things that I think would heavily improve RP More civ support: 1. Cheaper Property requests on a case by case basis, with proper reasonings. Currently I feel RP is hindered by the need to make millions, money should not dictate RP. 2. Much less heavy, stackable furniture to make building less tedious. (I.E, stacking 2 of the same floor lights for less clutter) 3. A proper way to sell back furniture that isn't used. (Can add it to the ctr+x option) 4. Scripted business support in order to allow businesses to open much more often. Remove 24/7 automated scripts from stores and/or allow players to run their own businesses for example. Allow us to hire managers, employees, etc and pay a salary. The only time a business should be automated is if there isn't another one being ran by a player somewhere else. 5. Similar to the above but add more variety of food and items that isn't sold in stores. It's rough to RP something like a burger shop whenever someone can just buy one from the nearest store. 6. Too many automated script jobs and activities hinders roleplay, some should be removed. Trucking faction, rather than a scripted trucking job for example. There's many ways to freak this. 7. Add different activities for players to do that doesn't include grinding for cash but promotes a social aspect. Scripted poker anywhere, more dice options, blackjack, etc. Realistic Crim Improvements: 1. Prison needs to have its own set of OOC rules that either merge with or are separate from the normal rules. Currently, prison on ECRP is a cesspool of trolling and DMing. There needs to be much harsher rules for prison in order to promote a more realistic environment for both the guards and players. More defined escalation, prison faction support with imported contraband, etc. 2. Add a vehicle list that changes daily for the chop shop. Currently, you literally cannot put a car anywhere and leave it for five seconds. I can't go into the furniture store without someone baby sitting my phantom, hell, I can't even walk into a property I'm building without someone trying to pick lock any car that's outside, regardless of the time of day. I know there's many more crim improvements I could have added but honestly, just focusing civ support adds a ton more to both legal and illegal factions, even players without a faction. Someone who does crime doesn't do it 24/7, you still go out to bars, hang out with friends, etc. My point is, there should be some type of means to promote a more naturally flowing LS; a more lively one.

New Chapter: Here But I'm Gone After the separation of the LS branch of Los Zetas, Capone decided it was better to leave entirely and let the legend speak for itself. With LS in a terrifying power struggle, he took a long trip to Nuevo Laredo, Tamaulipas, directly across the border from Laredo, Texas. There, he would meet the now fragmented Los Zetas Vieja Escuela once again and secure not only his safety, but he'd fold into past familiar faces. It was here that Capone would learn the proper trades of shipping and handling, drug distribution and mostly anything surrounding gun supplies. To put it simply, it was definitely an eye-opener for him, knowing those same guns Zetas would import into the US, came directly from US gun companies that would ship the supply to the Mexican military & Police and thus in turn, would end up in the Cartel's hands. Going forward, it was no longer the loud, flashy lifestyle that he was used to living. It was..well, different. Different in the sense that, they didn't wear colors, didn't drive in fast, fancy cars and their operations were much more subtle. It wasn't all subtle though, sometimes the cartel needed to get a point across; a message if you will. Running with Los Zetas Vieja Escuela was not only a learning experience for Capone, it was a culture shock, a reality check if you will. Efforts by authorities to quell the Cartel's influence failed largely due to their inability to learn from lessons of the past; a similar fate LS felt not long ago. You see, Capone soon learned that the cartels harm stretches far beyond the sheer violence of it all. A successful cartel has pernicious efforts on the economy as well. They raise prices above the competitive level and reduce output on a business level. Consumers then choose either not to pay the higher price of the cartelized product that they need, thus forgoing the product, or they pay the cartel price and thereby unknowingly transfer wealth to the cartel operators. Needless to say, Capone was taken to school during his time in Tamaulipas and what started as an LS Zetas confidant, soon became flush with the knowledge of corruption and monetary power far greater and far less showcased than what he previously experienced in Los Santos. Capone's next move was to eventually travel back to Los Santos and contact Jay, using what he learned to benefit his long time friend. What he came back to instead, was a dying underbelly. The underbelly that he poured his blood, sweat and tears into was fading and just the same as he left, the Los Santos's branch of Zetas were nowhere to be found. You see, he had been through a wave of distractions in his time away, not truly grasping the fact that the blue army he put his soul into was gone, not a soul in sight. What he needed was time, time to grieve, time to make amends and time to gather himself. This was truly his New Chapter.

-1 on anything involving robberies unless it's to make it less common. We definitely don't need another robbery culture.

The problem is, wearing a mask 24/7 is non RP in itself. People put themselves in situations where they're being hunted by police and figure the best way to avoid it is by putting on a mask to hide their alias, which genuinely isn't ideal at all. Name tagging should be enforced as metagaming, because well..it is. Think about this, you shot someone for whatever reason and cops saw you do it, rather than wearing a mask 24/7, why not change clothes, RP wearing your hat low and go hide out until the heat dies down. There should be zero reason you're wanted unless they know for a fact it's you and if you're driving around and you look entirely different, it's easy to prove you were name tagged in the first place, staff just needs to be really hands on about this type of thing because it isn't uncommon for these things to happen. There is a script manner in which you can hide ID's through tinted windows, I've seen it and while I agree that it's a great approach, it still starts at home. If you know you're about to do some wild shit? Throw that mask on, it's what it's there for but not every single crime should require a mask as the entire point is to be lowkey. That goes to my next point, for whatever reason, people are entirely too well known to PD to the point where it makes some of that shit entirely pointless. The amount of time my character has been arrested is just bonkers and in no world should that even be possible. I'd appreciate it if a cop who's reading this could MDC Flint Capone, Flint Johnson or Flint Carwyn and post my record here for OOC purpose, simply so I can stress the point even further. CK's when they're not being forced by an Admin or Faction should be requested by forums with the reason as to why you want to CK that character and the story that lead up to the CK, thus eliminating people doing it for a "get out of jail free card". If people want to CK and join another faction, let them. As long as they're an entirely new person and have to meet people all over again, that's fine and there's zero wrong with that.

Since I can't seem to edit this post, I would simply like to add that I'm not pointing at anyone in particular, mainly just a widespread issue I've come to see as of late. To anyone here that knows who I am, ya'll know I got nothing but love for a lot of people in this community and I simply want things to improve for everyone, not just a certain niche of people.

Just as the title says. You see, I've taken a slight break from ECRP and come to understand the value of RP as a whole during that break. To the extent that coming back to the server, it just genuinely feels like night and day. I'm guilty of a lot of things here and as much as I never expected to post something like this, just stepping on the server makes me cringe. This isn't to diss the server in any type of way but anyone who's ever played anywhere else will surely understand where I'm coming from. I had a friend join ECRP, someone who's heavily into RP in general and I watched them try to RP a different voice, RP eating, driving speed limit and interacting with people and if I'm being honest? I damn near cringed out of my skin because I genuinely felt like the level of RP this person was doing, just wasn't the norm. I urge everyone to go take a look at these forum threads and take a solid look at the amount of mask wearing that's going on. Dudes be standing in the middle of stores and the bank with masks on, they wear a mask everywhere they go. That shit needs to stop and for the people who are going to post "IC issue" eat a dick tbh, we all know it isn't an IC issue at all, it's as nonRP as it can get. This doesn't just go one way as well, as I know crims will likely see this and think Flint's being two faced and I completely agree, I am. This is a recent thought of mine and before I played anything else, it never once occured to me. Benny, the old Clown Leader made a post on Zeta's thread going "I still don't like the constant mask wearing" and if I'm being honest, I got heated about that but when I think back on it, he was 100% correct. This post also moves forward to PD as well. Stop metagaming name tags through tinted windows and using third person view to spot guns from behind the car. PD needs to be held accountable and start acting like actual Police. There's some examples that were set and needs to be followed. Shout out to Shadow, Bacon, Hamilton and likely many others for RPing really well as a cop on an RP server. It's sad to say, but these people are/were in rare form. I cannot say that about a lot of PD members on ECRP and it isn't their fault, this simply needs to be enforced better on an OOC level. Start kicking people from the faction that aren't upholding RP standards and this goes to everyone. Another point I would like to make is that none of this is any one person's fault. Somewhere along the lines, we stopped valuing RP and started doing whatever the hell we wanted to, all while point the finger at each other. It's a collective problem. You know things are bad whenever faction members become inactive because there isn't shit to shoot and unfortunately, I feel that staff overlooked a lot of these things for entirely too long. People DMing bank and getting appeals accepted, people having like 30 NonRP's returning to the server and many more. Also ffs, bring back the CK system. Stop allowing people to die 1000 times and return as themselves. Factions should be permitted CK perms on their members and CK's need to be handed out to people who can't seem to grasp the idea of valuing their characters life. Last but not least @FatherOsborn and anyone else involved, Good shit on that announcement titled "State of EclipseRP" it's good to see that things are moving in the right direction. All I ask is that staff keeps that same energy involving government factions as well. I dead ass feel like an opp right now posting this, but there were things I needed to get off my chest.

I agree 100%. Back when Zetas first formed, FM were strictly there to help push us in the right direction. Bakmeel would sometimes give harsh, but WELL needed advice and we molded ourselves around it. I'm sure we used to give him a major headache, always debating and shit, yet it helped us tremendously. Recent days, it just felt like there was a foot on our necks, that we couldn't react to certain situations out of fear that we would get punished or hounded on because of it. I wouldn't have an issue if FM was a more IC thing, aka This Cartel that's always spoken about, the people who do the special imports. I think that would have been a wonderful addition to FM. If an organization was fucking up too bad, they would mediate both parties in a fashion that made sense and it would be strictly IC. Considering our connects to guns came from them, it would have made sense to obey the Cartel. FM means well and I'm sure they're doing their best, but in some situations, it gets to the point where it forces us to Mix IC and OOC as players.

All HC agreed that if one of us were done, all of us were done. We talked about passing it on before, but we thought it better to disband instead and it's healthier for everyone else as well. It's much more fun to grind to the top but once you get there, it becomes almost a full time job to maintain.

Not trying to be that guy but isn't this DojinxMurda on the very first day Zetas disbanded? Didnt you guys start hunting and isn't this basically PD bridge? Seems like the Current State of LS right now and not the current state of The Council if im being honest. It's a power struggle, it'll pass. And here's a time stamped video Yall be the judge.

Thank you all so much for the experiences. I keep trying to tell myself that it's just a game and I should just move on, but man..this thing of ours, I miss it already. Just the feeling of logging in daily, in order to keep building this empire with not just people I met on ECRP, legitimate friends. I still remember when I met Jay. I was working at LSC and at this point, I was so corrupt, in and out of the Crim scene as a mech. Jay Gamble rolls in to LSC with his warrener, completely new to ECRP. I still can't put my finger on why, but he was my fuckin homie ever since. I watched this man go from nothing to his name, stashing drug mats in my 2G on grove, to a multi million dollar kingpin. I love yall niggas man and I appreciate all of you. We've been through so many sleepness nights and weighty decisions, it's bat shit crazy thinking back on it. The saying "You don't know what you have until it's gone" hits so hard right now. I feel I really took this shit for granted sometimes. An old but golden weazal news documentary

Not going to lie, that's actually really well said. I will keep that input in mind.

Assumptions and word of mouth? So your own people don't count as information? You guys specifically saying we never had previous altercations that warranted you being hit doesn't count as information? Aight cool. If what I said was hostile, then you must be hostile as hell as most of your comments involve our factions and you making your own assumptions, don't be a hypocrite. Numbers don't mean as much as people would like them to, no, they don't. Unofficial gangs have no member cap, nor restrictions on alliences. So making the excuse about numbers doesn't make too much sense. I'm not sure what you're expecting from fights but I don't care what restrictions you add, shootouts will never be pretty. Feeling overwhelmed? Go recruit and make relationships. Don't preach unfairness because you want your personal limitations to be universal. You want to only run 30 members? Cool, but know that's your decision and yours alone. I'm not going to sit here and argue with you back to back. If you want to compare sizes, talk about who's RP is better, and who has better shooters? you know how to reach me, but that's not what I'm looking to do here and that's a pointless conversation to have. You saying these recent fights proved that numbers are the main factor? I'm sure I know some goons that will disagree.

My man, you weren't forced onto either side, there's a better solution, it's called mind your business. I'm trying to keep what I'm saying to a minimum because the conversation we had I assumed was a private one, but either way, sitting out was an option and you made the concious decision to attempt to partake. No one was focusing hard on Shelby's until that day and that's a fact. So yes, my point still remains. I had your own people telling me that it was a mistake and shouldn't have even happened, so I'm not basing that statement on a random thought. My point is, people complain and want hard ooc limitations in order to benefit themselves. This cap doesn't effect us as much as it effects who comes after us. If y'all are complaining about numbers now, imagine when a new official faction comes up and they're capped at 40 while the council still exists. Talk about out numbered. Also to add, I'm not trying to be hostile towards you at all. All I'm saying is, people will kick the hornet's nest and act surprised when they get stung by hundreds of hornets. That mentality of "I can do it but when it happens to me? I don't like that shit" really needs to stop and I urge people to start smelling themselves and realize that their shit stinks too. If my RP isn't up to your standards, I apologize but at least make sure yours is up to par as well before you begin discrediting people.

When I saw you post this, I had to double check if you were who I thought you were. You're Aki from the previously Shelby's, yes? It's odd to me that you would say that, as your group did the prime example of what you shouldn't do as a new gang. When we were at war with WCA, you quite literally attempted to join a war that had absolutely nothing to do with you. There's even video on YouTube on how y'all were joining the war. Y'all legit just joined a war based on a 2 day relationship with another faction just for smoke. I still to this day I neverr understood the mentality of complaining about another group for the sake of it. I used to think that people had genuine reasons and I used to listen in and try to understand their pov. Yet when you see people who were all on some "Fuck yeah, let's back the council in war!" To "Fuck Council" because they got the same treatment they tried to dish out to others, it's borderline laughable. Check these guys forum history and you will find them backing the council 100%. I think I'm starting to understand it though. It's the old saying my old head used to say "Don't dish out what you can't take"

I think RP evolved naturally through dynamic IC events. I don't think RP is better without Irish, WCA, or Rooks. I'm leaving Vorys out of this because that was a personal IC vendetta and those guys are truly family. My point is, for every group that falls, another will take their place. It's funny that you mentioned Irish though, because all of this talk of the council is making me feel nostalgic. Considering Irish were founders of said Council and we wouldnt be here if it weren't for them. @alexalex303 I'm too stupid to double quote right now. My opinion hasn't changed. I think this effects both small and bigger factions. I don't have a single problem with people agreeing with the changes. I disagree, but that doesn't mean everyone has to. I don't think restrictions should be made like this, especially not like this, as in the grand scheme of things I feel it only serves to hurt factions rather than help them improve/advise them. Nothing changes for us as far as Council in the long run, we're still going to do the same shit. So not only is this restriction pointless, it just hits our recruitment RP directly in the gut and at complete random as well and that needs to be addressed, as a new cap wasn't needed. Also context does matter. My point in posting that is that when we were at war with Rooks, you didn't give a shit and proceeded to help this "council" stomp them out until they were damn near gone. You didn't care when it was you, Rooks and Vory fighting Aztecas and you didn't care when you were pushing around ballas until they had nothing left. Shit, when people were wanting to restrict IC relationships and progression through OOC means, you were NOT with that shit. So yes, I feel that now that the shoe is put on the other foot, your entire world view has changed. I'm not trying to be a cuck here, just something I've noticed from a few people so far. When they're the ones taking the fight to someone else, they could care less and when it happens to them, it's different it seems. Where was all that energy when you guys were helping us fight all these other gangs? No one seemed to mind the council then lmao

My man honestly, the fact that you even mentioned the thread says a lot. If you think we're deadass going to spam our faction thread 24/7, you're wilding out. We post when something relevant occurs and that's evident by the amount of pages we have. We don't spam faction thread, thats not what we're here for. Preach.

That's not a loophole. If people want to hang around us and bang shit out with us, we're not going to turn that down period. We can't have 60 members, but close friends are okay and the moment i get told that I can't hang out with another group on some abusive parent shit, that's it for me cuz. This is genuinely a step in the wrong direction and players are going to feel that one way or another.

But we're not the ones getting a disadvantage, smaller factions are. They don't feel it yet because they don't have the time zone issues when it comes to being official, but once you become official and feel even the previous cap, you're going to be at a big disadvantage number wise. You see, the Council consists of multiple groups with multiple time frames. The problem here is putting in so much work involving recruitment, only to be told we're getting another cap out of nowhere. Cap or not, if people want to hang around Zetas, they will. We're not going to push people away because there's a new cap rofl. This legit only serves to cut member counts and that has absolutely no correlation to new factions forming in the future. We're going to do the same shit we did with 60 members, with the new cap. Nothing changes on that front. So no, it makes absolutely zero sense to implement a change that's as random and limiting as this. We've been abiding by the previous cap for two years, just to get fucked on and told it's being reduced, again. That's extremely disappointing and I feel like we're being treated like idiots honestly. Not to sound rude, but that's exactly how it feels. "Who gives a shit how it effects you, you'll play anyway and if you don't, bye" type of mentality. This literally got shoved down our throats at random. This also effects LoA's as well. With a 60 member cap, if someone makes an LoA for personal life reasons, you're able to slightly fill that gap. Now? When someone takes an LoA, you're short 1 man out of 40 and it's only going to get worse. I bet my bottom dollar that none of that shit was even factored in.

I don't see how people are not comprehending that this player cap legit only serves to cut these factions entirely. As if some new gang is going to show up, have 40 members and all of a sudden his situation on ECRP improves because he has 20 less members. People argue "The Council" The Council will always be a thing, now you have less members, so good luck covering those time zones. During the next war @Icarus2766 you're going to see, that it's not just us that's limited, it's you as well. While you struggle to maintain against time zones, The Council will be just as big. I've also been noticing that these same people who held such a strong opinion on improving CrimRP in the past and telling people to "get over it" are the same people now flipping the script.

That's not a "we're going to find out" situation. Let's keep it real. If war happens, people who are capped at 40 while we're sitting at 60 are fucked. Not only that, this does not speak for the other gangs who are with us regardless. All this does is limit newer factions capabilities. This is is cutting 20 people and closing recruitment completely otherwise. If you want to get a snitch into Zetas, GL with that. We cant recruit anyway.

Are you joking honestly? If you think this cap will help smaller organizations, you're clearly not thinking correctly. If anything, this will harm them as now they have entirely no chance of reaching that point. You cant even fill in the void with more man power, you're literally going to get stomped out even worse now. You're going to have 40 members of spread out time zones vs an alliance of 120+ people still. This didn't change the outcome of smaller factions at all, if anything it made it worse on them, not better. Our recruitment is closed, but we don't have to remove anyone. So we can keep our 60, while you're stuck at 40. It makes ZERO sense to reduce our cap and forcefully close our recruitment.

Just recently found out about the new member cap and I have to say, I'm extremely disappointed in this. It feels like we're being choked out until we finally lose air. Knowing our pre's are instant denied, knowing in order to recruit again, we have to kick 20 members from our faction, this is diabolical. I've been pushing so hard, making discussions and suggestions and trying to push change on a more controlled platform and it just seems pointless. We've been at the 60 cap for so long and built so much shit around recruitment and to get this shoved down our throats really says a lot. When we became official, we personally had to remove lots of members and now we're being asked to do the same thing again if we want to maintain our recruitment. I honestly feel like whatever I say is just going to be ignored, it really doesn't feel like anyone gives a shit. +1 on everything you said above.

@Trenix Again, the point still remains. You seem to assume that the people here don't understand how to RP. I'm not against you when it comes to the constant mask wearing, I agree that it can sometimes be a bit too much. You're still walking that thin line again. You said it yourself, it's just a game, so we cannot expect 100% realism and that's the point, I agree with that. Should people run around chain robbing? No, you should be banned if that's the only reason you're on ECRP to begin with. Should I run up on you and rob you in a supercar? No, I shouldn't. And yet my fear is that I could drive an all black Washington and rob someone in that and yet people will still complain about it. You saying "You're stupid for robbing me because I have nothing" that isn't always the purpose of a robbery. If you were my die hard enemy and I could drive up to you and shoot you in the head at night time with a silenced pistol, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. If I see you and you're my enemy, the ONLY thing I can do is rob you in order to initiate that RP conflict. People tend to think that violence itself is nonRP on this server and that mentality genuinely fucks me up, I don't understand it. There's so much RP that goes into these illegal factions that it's pointless to push it all out here and yet some people think it's all just "rob, kill, steal, talk shit" There's so much diplomacy and overall politics that go into it and that seems to be the most ignored portion of CriminalRP. The mentality of "Just because I wasn't there, I don't believe it happens" There are plenty of factions that don't have "exclusive" weapons to import that do the exact same things, so that statement itself is pretty invalid. I'm telling you to pull your head out of your ass because you keep making this assumption that people are griefers and DMers for stating their opinion in a discussion post, as if you know these people and how they play the game. If you can figure out that not everything has to be realistic because it IS a video game, then you can also understand how certain limitations can severely disrupt conflict as an entirety. It's not all about robbing people, it's about the conflicts that stem from robbing people as an entirety. If two die hard enemies want it bad enough, telling them they can't because of some invisible barrier is just wild. I've seen two parties that wanted to rip each others head off, literally sitting there like "Uh...what do I do? I wanna kill you but I just cant for some reason" that shit is ugly as fuck to watch honestly. Two people scared of the other person reporting them. I don't see how anyone can think that's okay. Dude, I've legit watched people get off their bike and just aim their gun, hoping the other person aims back, to give both sides a reason to shoot it out. No demands, nothing. Just aiming. I'm sorry but that's funny as shit.

I'm going to be honest in saying, the way you're speaking to the people in this discussion feels borderline narcissistic and arrogant. Saying people are thinking like griefers and DMers from stating their opinion in a discussion post. I think everyone here understands what you're saying, I would ask for you to stop making the assumption that your level of thinking is above the rest, it isn't. Now, the robbery aspect of this rule is effecting conflict as an entirety, that's the issue a lot of people are having with it. We cannot do a straight up drive-by on our enemies as that would be DM in itself. So what do you have as a form of conflict in order to further the RP scenario? You have the option of remaining alive after this altercation if I simply rob you. Robbing someone isn't about just taking their shit for yourself, a lot of times it is used to send a message. Frankly, I think I'm really tired of people using this "I'm a roleplayer, think realism" mentality, because in my humble opinion, that's extremely naive considering the circumstances. Let's say you were my enemy and I was following you with a specific agenda. We're both driving speed limit. You're going to press C and notice that I'm following you. Why? Because there are no NPCs. I don't care how realistic you want to approach things, there's certain times where you just can't. Examples of Non Realism? 1. Noticing someone is following you because there are no NPCs 2. Cops shooting micro SMG's in a high speed chase, because there are no NPCs at risk for cross fire 3. Carrying furniture items in your inventory. "Yo, I got a couch in my pocket, don't take it" 4. Making almost every drug with a weed plant 5. Static Drop off NPC's for drugs 6. I can kill 20 cops in one sitting, go to jail and come out that same day. There are SO many others. Does that mean the server is bad? Fuck no. The server is amazing and I'm completely addicted. Yet what I really dislike is people walking this thin ass line of "Think realistic!" and "Well not everything can be realistic, it's a game after all" Just because it's an RP server doesn't mean everything has to be realistic. Roleplay doesn't require you to base your entire character on reality, that's not even the definition of the word itself. Players are walking around with like 40 pages of their criminal record and cops are shooting fully automatic rifles in "populated" areas. The point of this discussion is to discuss the rule itself, no one has to agree with each other, merely voice your concerns. Take your head out of your ass and let's try being civil, rather than pointing fingers at each other and labeling people as if you know them and their way of thinking.