Make Prison Sentence Cap at 120 mins again

[kennyGribbins]

I believe the prison sentence should have a Cap at 120 minutes. I believe it should cap because some people don't have time to sit in a prison for 6 hours. Also the police department could abuse the easily. A lot of people don't like the change to the prison making the times unlimited. Also if you make the prison sentences this long some people probably would stop playing on the criminal character. For example: people wont want to risk having to spend a day in prison because they shot at someone or they wouldn't want to go to prison for a long time for un paid tickets or like reckless driving. I believe 120 minutes was long enough.  Making it unlimited is to much. People have to go to work and they cant play to go finish there sentence. Hope you can consider making a cap on the prison sentence.

Edited July 2, 2019 by kennyGribbins

[kushsauce]

+1

[Alverin]

31 minutes ago, kennyGribbins said:

I believe the prison sentence should have a Cap at 120 minutes. I believe it should cap because some people don't have time to sit in a prison for 6 hours. Also the police department could abuse the easily. A lot of people don't like the change to the prison making the times unlimited. Also if you make the prison sentences this long criminal Roleplay will start to slowly stop. For example: people wont want to risk having to spend a day in prison because they shot at someone or they wouldn't want to go to prison for a long time for un paid tickets or like reckless driving. I believe 120 minutes was long enough.  Making it unlimited is to much. People have to go to work and they cant play to go finish there sentence. Hope you can consider making a cap on the prison sentence.

-1

Let's go over these point by point.

• "Some people don't have time to sit in a prison for 6 hours."

Yeah and some people don't have time to play the game at all. We're not changing the game so that they can play. The server is tailored to a specific long term experience, if you can't find the time to play then the developers aren't going to make it a battle royal so you don't have to "grind for guns to get to the good parts". Could you imagine you asked the developers to shorten the time it took to get guns or make connections to get guns so that you could get to shoot-outs with the police faster? The server is already geared toward people who have a lot of time to spare, if you don't have the time required, no one's forcing you to do crimes that will put you in jail for 6 hours.

• The police department could abuse this easily.

Criminals could abuse the act of getting weapons easily, but we have rules in place that address that and make it apparent you'll get banned for doing that. More importantly, this isn't even an argument against no caps, this is an argument against bad players. You wouldn't say "REMOVE GUNS FROM THE GAME BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE USE THEM TO DM!" would you?

• "A lot of people don't like the change to the prison making the times unlimited"

Citation needed* (In other words, that's yet to be seen and unless you can show us some data suggesting  the MAJORITY of the 200-300 people who play on this server don't like this change, then we don't have a lot to talk about here.)

• "Also if you make the prison sentences this long criminal roleplay will start to slowly stop"

*Citation Needed, again on what authority do you derive this conclusion? Criminal roleplay is already incentivized by SEVERAL factors. First it's more fun than other types of roleplay, secondly it makes more money than other types of roleplay, thirdly it gives more FREEDOM to your roleplay and finally it is the most popular type of roleplay and has the largest USER BASE. So no, probably not. Criminal Roleplay might CHANGE (for the better) but it won't "stop" as you suggest. You give the examples of "because they shot at someone" which I think naively reveals an important point. We DON'T WANT people who just "shoot at someone" roleplaying criminals. We want people who are going to be motivated to do things for reasons deeper than "I want to rob him". What the developers have done has naturally increased the VALUE of crime. This allows it to be more rare but also more IMPORTANT. We're tired of seeing civillians get mugged out in the middle of the street or 7 vehicles pulling up on a truck full of ore just to shoot out the tired and mug them with AK-47's in the middle of the street. This is a step in the direction of tempered but exciting criminal behavior. I don't want dumbass criminals who mug me because the worst thing that happens is they get into a shootout and go to jail for 120 minutes while they watch Netflix. Screw that, start playing your criminals like actual criminals or deal with the consequences.

 

[alexalex303]

You can't sit in prison because you have to go to work (No AFK timer by the way), but what about the guy you just robbed in broad daylight? He lost his car, his map, his gps, his gun, and then you went on a hour long chase with the cops, and killed three of them. 

At the end of that you should be able to watch an episode of your favorite tv show and be out? It doesn't make any sense. You did the crime, now do the time.

[Riderz]

N/A

Edited June 20, 2020 by Tezhl

[Alverin]

31 minutes ago, Tezhl said:

Let's go with your hypotheticals, why can police open fire on a vehicle not stopping? This would be non-rp and support the concept of trigger happy cops. Why doesn't the PD have a force matrix report form where you detail every interaction performed documenting the outcome of traffic stops, firefights and so on a so forth with evidence of each outcome? Why isn't there a casefile case outlining charges that can be review by a judge that then decides charges place since cops IRL can't charge then sentence?  How come cops have .50 Cal rifles given it's only permitted on stop vehicles within the US? How come PD have a teamspeak channel where information can be metagamed? How come PD has the ability to take out firearms without billing the department when they are lost? How come weapons are bound to the character of the Police member and can't be taken like any other? How come PD has a panic button that can be pressed outside their GPS'd car? How can your cruisers total the speed of super? Why isn't there a forum section cataloging all evidence collected as it applies to crimes? 

 

Seems like we only want roleplay that fits outcomes we want, doesn't it?

Didn't you read my response to you in your own thread? This isn't the argument ANYONE here is making. We're not striving for more "RP" or reality. We're striving for balance and outcomes associated with the meta of the game. @NBDY didn't make the decision to remove the jailcap because it'd be more realistic (why do you think this?) they made the decision to remove the jailcap because it would effect the decisions of criminals in a way that would create more fun for certain people on the server and facilitate a certain style of player for criminals. They didn't make the game harder on criminals they just changed the way criminals have to play to win.

[alexalex303]

47 minutes ago, Tezhl said:

Let's go with your hypotheticals

Sure.

Quote

 

why can police open fire on a vehicle not stopping? This would be non-rp and support the concept of trigger happy cops. 

 

Because there are certain times when doing so is a lesser harm than letting the vehicle drive away without shooting at it. For example if four people just gunned down three cops, and they all get in a contender, that's not going to be a one twenty minute pursuit while their friends setup for a second ambush. They're going to be stopped. People that haven't shot themselves will rarely be fired upon, I'm talking less than 1 out of 100.

Quote

Why doesn't the PD have a force matrix report form where you detail every interaction performed documenting the outcome of traffic stops, firefights and so on a so forth with evidence of each outcome?

Because if that were the case, the officers would NEVER EVER unimpound your vehicle again, as they would be buried in paperwork, because in los santos there is an Afghanistan cca 2001 level of firefights. There are timezones in which there are literally three firefights happening at the same time.

Quote

Why isn't there a casefile case outlining charges that can be review by a judge that then decides charges place since cops IRL can't charge then sentence?

Because the charges aren't long enough to justify it compared to IRL. It doesn't make sense to have a person compile a casefile, have it reviewed only for the person to get three hours of prison. If you would get week long sentences instead of hour long sentences, I'd be up for a system like that.

Quote

How come cops have .50 Cal rifles given it's only permitted on stop vehicles within the US?

To put it simply, cops don't have that, unless you are being very reductionist. There are about 110 cops in the LSPD, about 15 of them are members of SWAT, of those 15, about 7 of them are certified to use the sniper rifle. So the smallest percentage of the small percentage of players that are cops in the server have it. And they have it because people are not supposed to fight SWAT, when SWAT rolls up, the only response should be to run, but people, because they have a lot of advantages (numbers, assault rifles, even armor now) sometimes try to fight them, and the sniper rifle is the ultimate advantage, meant to push you away from such an action. However even with that, I can think of at least a dozen situations in which SWAT lost a gunfight.

Quote

How come PD have a teamspeak channel where information can be metagamed?

It's meant to provide a stable platform for IC communications during moving situations. You will rarely have criminals update their locations during pursuits as they already do with the in-game radios, cops should always have more organization and teamwork, and having good, reliable communications is a good way to ensure that happens.

Quote

How come PD has the ability to take out firearms without billing the department when they are lost?

It works the same way as you not having to buy a new car every time you dump it into water by accident, or lose it in a gunfight with a rival gang. It just appears again.

Quote

How come weapons are bound to the character of the Police member and can't be taken like any other?

Because in every roleplay server where that has been allowed, people look for petty reasons to rob cops in order to get guns, whereas in real life no one would rob a cop for a gun.

Quote

 

How come PD has a panic button that can be pressed outside their GPS'd car? 

 

It's roleplayed as their radio having a GPS system on it, many criminals take away the cop's radio, and they will no longer use the panic. It happens quite frequently.

Quote

How can your cruisers total the speed of super?

Because some sports cars are above-average and some supers are below-average. There are about 10 sports cars that are faster than the cruiser, the schafter V12 is a famous over-used example that will easily lose a cruiser on the highway. High top speed supers also lose cruisers in a matter of seconds (811, Banshee 900R, X80). The cruiser is simply an above-average sports car.

Quote

Why isn't there a forum section cataloging all evidence collected as it applies to crimes? 

See the answer for evidence regarding shootouts. There is too much crime happening for that to realistically be possible. If we reduced our crimes to realistic rates, we could see such a system. For example in 2014 there were 260 homicides in Los Angles. I'm pretty sure Los Santos does that daily.

Seems like we only want roleplay that fits outcomes we want, doesn't it?

Edited July 2, 2019 by alexalex303

[Riderz]

N/A

Edited June 20, 2020 by Tezhl

[kennyGribbins]

you cant afk in prison

[kennyGribbins]

2 hours ago, Alverin said:

-1

Let's go over these point by point.

• "Some people don't have time to sit in a prison for 6 hours."

Yeah and some people don't have time to play the game at all. We're not changing the game so that they can play. The server is tailored to a specific long term experience, if you can't find the time to play then the developers aren't going to make it a battle royal so you don't have to "grind for guns to get to the good parts". Could you imagine you asked the developers to shorten the time it took to get guns or make connections to get guns so that you could get to shoot-outs with the police faster? The server is already geared toward people who have a lot of time to spare, if you don't have the time required, no one's forcing you to do crimes that will put you in jail for 6 hours.

• The police department could abuse this easily.

Criminals could abuse the act of getting weapons easily, but we have rules in place that address that and make it apparent you'll get banned for doing that. More importantly, this isn't even an argument against no caps, this is an argument against bad players. You wouldn't say "REMOVE GUNS FROM THE GAME BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE USE THEM TO DM!" would you?

• "A lot of people don't like the change to the prison making the times unlimited"

Citation needed* (In other words, that's yet to be seen and unless you can show us some data suggesting  the MAJORITY of the 200-300 people who play on this server don't like this change, then we don't have a lot to talk about here.)

• "Also if you make the prison sentences this long criminal roleplay will start to slowly stop"

*Citation Needed, again on what authority do you derive this conclusion? Criminal roleplay is already incentivized by SEVERAL factors. First it's more fun than other types of roleplay, secondly it makes more money than other types of roleplay, thirdly it gives more FREEDOM to your roleplay and finally it is the most popular type of roleplay and has the largest USER BASE. So no, probably not. Criminal Roleplay might CHANGE (for the better) but it won't "stop" as you suggest. You give the examples of "because they shot at someone" which I think naively reveals an important point. We DON'T WANT people who just "shoot at someone" roleplaying criminals. We want people who are going to be motivated to do things for reasons deeper than "I want to rob him". What the developers have done has naturally increased the VALUE of crime. This allows it to be more rare but also more IMPORTANT. We're tired of seeing civillians get mugged out in the middle of the street or 7 vehicles pulling up on a truck full of ore just to shoot out the tired and mug them with AK-47's in the middle of the street. This is a step in the direction of tempered but exciting criminal behavior. I don't want dumbass criminals who mug me because the worst thing that happens is they get into a shootout and go to jail for 120 minutes while they watch Netflix. Screw that, start playing your criminals like actual criminals or deal with the consequences.

 

Not every criminal robs civilians 

[kennyGribbins]

2 hours ago, alexalex303 said:

You can't sit in prison because you have to go to work (No AFK timer by the way), but what about the guy you just robbed in broad daylight? He lost his car, his map, his gps, his gun, and then you went on a hour long chase with the cops, and killed three of them. 

At the end of that you should be able to watch an episode of your favorite tv show and be out? It doesn't make any sense. You did the crime, now do the time.

You cant afk in prison anymore 

[Alverin]

3 minutes ago, kennyGribbins said:

Not every criminal robs civilians 

Yeah I agree.

[MikeyyyG]

With the new prison times death RP needs to be reworked. 

Right now if you do get in a gunfight and end up taking a .50 Cal sniper bullet to your skull you will always get that one officer saying “/b DENIED” no matter how good rp you do. 

Scenario thats happened to myself a couple of weeks ago:

officers showed up to a robbery, around 5 officers shoot me with carbines and shotguns. 

They call for medics, no medics respond. 

At this point I request deathRP since we have been waiting on medics for 5+ minutes. This request was then denied by everyones favourite officer.

The officers then wrap a bandage around the 70 bullet wounds on my body, force you to reply “/do the bandage would stop the bleeding of the shotgun shells and carbine bullets” then stick me in their cruiser, take me to MD and carry my over their shoulder and drop me inside MD so they can arrest me.

It simply makes no fucking sense.

Edited July 2, 2019 by MikeyyyG

[isBrainDed]

I can't tell about how other officers grant death RP, but I can give you how I do it.

 

Whenever there is someone that I have downed and they ask for death RP, I look at what lead to the wounded state of the player. Did the player just come up to me arresting their friend and started shooting? That is denial and not much will change my mind, as you didn't add anything to the RP.

Was I transporting someone to Bolingbroke and you they blocked me with the vehicle and instantly started firing? Death RP denied, because they didn't add to the RP.

Someone being in a chase because they are wanted, flipping their vehicle and actually RPing crawling out of the vehicle, roleplaying being all dizzy and everything, then doing a kind of last stand. I would grant Death RP as that, as they didn't just reach for the guns instantly, but they RPed for it.

Someone being in a chase and ending up in a massive collision with an object or another vehicle ( not dying, just stalling the vehicle at high speed ), and RPing getting serious injuries, I would grant death RP for that. But if the second they stall, they step out of the vehicle, pulling out guns, that is an instant denial.

Or if the whole experience is fun for everyone involved, then that I might also consider granting death RP for that, but if we have someone that is off-roading in a sports vehicle while in chase and then stalls because of that, there is a very small change I would grant them death RP for that.

Edited July 2, 2019 by BrainDed

[Exodical]

+1 I don't have a problem with it being a little longer, but unlimited is just to much. I don't have the time to be in prison for 24 hours.

[Yannick]

Alright, I understand your point but, in my opinion depending on the severity of your charges your prison time should be accordingly. The LSPD now has a huge responsibility, if they are well prepared, for example their leaders need to make a guidebook (if they haven't already) for charges and their time penalty, this would erase confusion among LSPD members and convicted criminals.

[Wizzidy]

23 minutes ago, Exodical said:

+1 I don't have a problem with it being a little longer, but unlimited is just to much. I don't have the time to be in prison for 24 hours.

I keep seeing this.... but I have to say... everyone has time to be in prison for 24 hours... this is an RP server, most people average 24 hours in a 3 day span(many of them more than that)... Im sorry this inconveniences your want but you have to remember... crime inconveniences the wants of others as well... You know how many times people have had to wait 4 hours to get their vehicle after it being chopped? Or spend time walking back into town, or have an hours worth of fish stolen in 15 seconds of sloppily managed RP. There are some good criminals who dont target civilian rpers, but we can't separate that way... unfortunately crime is crime, and 3-5 days of RP behind bars might make people rethink frivolous crime, you can be a criminal and not get caught.. I have worked a day job while being a criminal in the past... the two can coincide... just be more careful and start taking the penalties seriously.

[Daniel_Underwood]

+1 It should be limited and you should be able to AFK jail. Most of the recent updates have been just huge nerfs to criminals.

[Donovan]

In my opinion, this change came in too late and that's why there is an amount of salt regarding the topic, imo this change is only " bad " for people who consider chain muggings and playing for loot are viable RP options...

People need to criminal RP is not just robbing and shooting, and saying " mom look at my super", I cannot speak for every single member of this community but at least 95% of people who roleplay as criminals have not engaged with/spend time with a criminal or been one at any point in their lives and that's why they get shocked with some changes and updates

[Wizzidy]

4 minutes ago, Donovan said:

In my opinion, this change came in too late and that's why there is an amount of salt regarding the topic, imo this change is only " bad " for people who consider chain muggings and playing for loot are viable rp options

+1 this, if you like the current server norm it is probably bad for you, but for those of us who want to have engaging storylines without so much hands up wild west shooting looting, this change is a welcome break from those that would make us feel less like "Just another day in LS" and change the feeling to "whoa you don't see that every day"

Edited July 2, 2019 by Wizzidy

[Donovan]

Just think of any situation in which you approached your friend or a random criminal and asked what they are doing, answers are " cooking, chopping, robbing, raiding a house or chilling", you will very rarely get an answer that consists of an rp scenario or some heavy rp

[DaniDota]

As someone who has spent atleast 120+ hours in prison.

This change will be good, it'll require getting used to for most criminals but RP will improve over time, because now things like mugging, robbing etc will take more time, allowing a greater time window for detailed/in-depth roleplay. Which will make it (in general) more fun for both parties.

If you get a 24 hour jail sentence for instance, take it that way. Play poker, socialize in prison, make a few friends, stick together. Like it would happen in real prison, you'd have cliques 'n shit all over the place. Do that in the prison here and you'll have your fun, do your time and think of how not to be caught next time?.

 

In general, -1.

The change is good for roleplay, now you can bingewatch your favorite netflix series instead of just 1-2 episodes ;^)

[Donovan]

Just something I forgot to mention during previous posts, I have spent most of my time as a criminal, I am approaching 110 imprisonments across my characters, have around 350 charges placed against me and around 400 citations, so it's not like it's coming from someone who plays a legal faction character 

[Jonaseriksen07]

If the prison time should go up by this much I believe that the rewards for doing criminal activities also should become better. 

[MrSilky]

This is a roleplay server, not a cops and robbers/DM server. There has been a lot of development effort towards civilian RP and it only makes sense that realistic repercussions happen to criminals now too. With the extended prison times, you can now develop RP from within the prison. You can develop criminal relationships, plan revenge (within the DM rules ofc), create partnerships between organisations. You need to ignore the "time limit" and focus more on the roleplay. The previous system of 2 hours with AFK timer disabled was absolutely a Netflix AFK simulator but now you have opportunities to actually roleplay. Sure, you're not going to have your sports/super cars in there with you and your heavy weapons with civilians being told to get their "hends oop" around every corner but now RP can actually be developed. Think of how strong a gang's RP will be if they formed within prison, got together out of prison and tracked down those who sent them there initially creating a close bond? This is a fantastic change.

Edited July 2, 2019 by MrSilky