Phil McGee Posted January 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 12 hours ago, GOAT said: I covered this a little on my discussion topic but I feel like the way it's setup, if you a criminal and you're actively fighting people, punishments are almost a given at some point. You only have to shoot somebody in the heat of the moment or not act a certain way when you've got a gun on you and six hours later on are on the forums six hours later explaining yourself. In PD, it's a lot easier. You just to have to be able to justify the use of force. You only shoot when you or someone else is in danger. You are never actively looking to kill someone, so there is a safety blanket there. Criminals don't have that and they will get into situations where it's kill or be killed but if they don't act right in that moment, they are screwed. I do PD and WCA right now and I can only half-criminal, because any punishment I get will affect me on PD. Depending on the punishment, I think if you go a certain amount of time staying out of trouble, you should be able to apply to get a punishment overturned, even if it was legitimate and the appeal was rejected. You don't want to let people off too easy but at the same time, they are more willing to work positively with a more considerate punishment system. No reason why most player can't alter their behaviour and make amends for past mistakes. That being said if it's clear that a person can't conform to the rules of the server, they should be permanently banned and never allowed back. Playing with bad players, makes more bad players and a bad community. The process must be reasonable and transparent, one we are all subject to and all aware of. Pretty spot on to be honest. Having played from both perspectives its so easy to rack up punishments doing criminal RP. And people saying it wont happen if you follow the rules its not always that simple. Its up to x admins interpretation of the rules to a certain point. I would also agree with the punishments voided being automatic if it did happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamalBratan Posted January 17, 2020 Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 Huge +1 it would be nice to get these old punishments removed. Cause basically alot people gets their punishments when they was new in the server and they was still learning the basics. Same as me most of my punishments when i came in the server and i was a rookie. Right now i spend many time on the server and just one small mistake can result me in perma ban and thats kinda sad. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldarine Posted January 17, 2020 Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 Personally I don't think punishments should ever expire/be voided unless an appeal is accepted. One of the biggest reasoning for this is because people can end up doing the exact same thing they did previously to get the expired punishment. I think something that may be better is to increase the categories of punishments. Right now a lot naturally falls under Non-RP which I believe is compensated by how many infractions you can get but it could still be divided into different categories. Players should also be aware that your punishment history is taken into account during the appeal process which is why many state that they have been playing for a while without any infractions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Copperhorse Posted January 17, 2020 Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 +1 I personally just login a couple times a month now if even because I'm afraid that I might accidentally break a rule (especially since I took a break and all the rules / how they're applied aren't in the forefront of my mind as they were when I played hours a day). So because I have year old punishments (most from my first few months learning how to play) I'm on non-rp #5 and dm #1. Not really trying to login just accidentally do something stupid and get perm banned and lose all my crap. I think if your punishment system fears players into logging into the server there's something wrong. This has been recommended before but was denied, hopefully because there's a lot of community support something will change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havana Posted January 18, 2020 Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 +1 With the insane amount of time that some people put into this game, it would be sad to see people have their favourite video game taken away because of a mistake/misunderstanding/misjugdement If someone can manage to keep a 100% clean record over 6/8/12 months of active playtime, they clearly have a dedication to the rules, roleplay, and community, and it would suck if they were banned over something like a misinterpreted rule/rules that are harder to understand because they got punished for something ages ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt12 Posted January 18, 2020 Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dim Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 On 1/17/2020 at 5:33 PM, Phil McGee said: Pretty spot on to be honest. Having played from both perspectives its so easy to rack up punishments doing criminal RP. And people saying it wont happen if you follow the rules its not always that simple. Its up to x admins interpretation of the rules to a certain point. I would also agree with the punishments voided being automatic if it did happen. True, RPing as a criminal is how you get all the punishments and it’s so much easier to get them if you’re a criminal. I feel like it’s almost not worth it anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dashingly Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) On 1/19/2020 at 7:41 AM, InvestedCereal said: True, RPing as a criminal is how you get all the punishments and it’s so much easier to get them if you’re a criminal. I feel like it’s almost not worth it anymore. preach. i'm walking on fucking egg shells every time an rp situation arises where i have to use my gun. it's like, i feel like im within my rights (RP wise and rule wise) to shoot this player, but is it even worth it to shoot my gun, knowing there's a chance it may end up on the forums? i feel you. Edited February 10, 2020 by Dashingly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsThisSeige Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 major +1 to this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasmine Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 I actually disagree for one simple reason: The more you play the more you should know the rules. I see cases where people get a DM, then play gaining 500k XP (equivelent of 2000 hours played...) Then get a 2nd DM months or even a year later. In my opinion, they should know better... As we review cases, we take the history and experience of the player into account, and I don't think we should have a set rule whereby rule-breaks are just thrown out. I like the system how it is, where we can see the entire record, and based on all factors, award the appropriate punishment. In most cases this results in a 30-day break from the server (and maybe they need it, if they are DMing), then they appeal and continue on. The idea here is if you are a consistent, long term member of the community, you should be setting the example and not DMing. I don't think we should get breaks, instead we should be held to a higher standard the longer we play. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amaim Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jasmine said: I actually disagree for one simple reason: The more you play the more you should know the rules. I see cases where people get a DM, then play gaining 500k XP (equivelent of 2000 hours played...) Then get a 2nd DM months or even a year later. In my opinion, they should know better... As we review cases, we take the history and experience of the player into account, and I don't think we should have a set rule whereby rule-breaks are just thrown out. I like the system how it is, where we can see the entire record, and based on all factors, award the appropriate punishment. In most cases this results in a 30-day break from the server (and maybe they need it, if they are DMing), then they appeal and continue on. The idea here is if you are a consistent, long term member of the community, you should be setting the example and not DMing. I don't think we should get breaks, instead we should be held to a higher standard the longer we play. Even with experience people can make honest mistakes specially in chaotic situations. It's a game after all. Edited February 20, 2020 by Amaim 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childofkorn Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 (edited) -1 The more you play on the server the more you should learn and know the rules. Yes you may not know them fully or gain a few punishment in the beginning of your role play adventure. But even if people make mistakes, a year down the line you should be doing your up most best to not brake any rules and there for, shows you realy haven't been learning them during this time. I think they should always be on your account to reflect this and punishments are issued correctly and fairly for this. Edited February 20, 2020 by childofkorn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justpositivity Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 Basically anyone who replied with a -1 they're saying that said user should perfectly understand the concept of RP within a 6 months period. I'm sure everyone reading this has made the same mistake within a 6 month period, whether it be small or huge. Messing up is easy, and it's scary. Knowing that you can be perma banned by shooting someone who you thought had shot at you or in an active shoot out and you mess up within the heat of the moment can lead to you being banned. I personally have maintained a clean admin record since November however I had joined the server with about a year's worth of RP knowledge of this wasn't the case I'm pretty sure things would have been different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaesarSeizure Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 I don't think anyone is talking about permanently removing the punishments from your logs, just that if you have a DM #1 and DM #2 with a 1 year gap, and you have been actively playing, maybe that should not be an instant ban. People make mistakes, you can get a couple of punishments at the start and go punishment free for a long time, and then make a bad judgement call which would get you banned, even though you were playing without any incident for a very long time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil McGee Posted February 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 (edited) On 2/20/2020 at 9:50 AM, Jasmine said: The idea here is if you are a consistent, long term member of the community, you should be setting the example and not DMing. I don't think we should get breaks, instead we should be held to a higher standard the longer we play. You're talking about people going out and intentionally breaking rules. This is simply not always the case. I've seen people with lots of experience and years of playtime getting banned for very minor infractions. I've also witnessed admins get perma banned for breaking rules. It's not just DMs we are talking about here. Also this is just my personal view but I feel some reports are not handled equally. It can really come down to does X admin dislike Y or even what gender is being reported. Id like to think people can be impartial but it's just human nature sometimes especially when it comes to gang affiliated admins. I suppose the key point from above is if it was treated as a legal system then mistakes happen hence the difference between , death by negligence , manslaughter and murder. Even some states wipe your record clean if you stay out of trouble long enough. This would be weighed up before sentencing. And it's so easy to shoot the wrong person wearing the same colour gang in a shootout. It's not malicious behaviour most of the time and even if it is and the person has proved through X amount of playtime and no rule breaks not to be perma banned for a mistake in a game mode essentially based around the medium of human nature? Edited February 22, 2020 by Phil McGee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_1bitcoin Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasmine Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Phil McGee said: You're talking about people going out and intentionally breaking rules. This is simply not always the case. I've seen people with lots of experience and years of playtime getting banned for very minor infractions. I've also witnessed admins get perma banned for breaking rules. It's not just DMs we are talking about here. Also this is just my personal view but I feel some reports are not handled equally. It can really come down to does X admin dislike Y or even what gender is being reported. Id like to think people can be impartial but it's just human nature sometimes especially when it comes to gang affiliated admins. I suppose the key point from above is if it was treated as a legal system then mistakes happen hence the difference between , death by negligence , manslaughter and murder. Even some states wipe your record clean if you stay out of trouble long enough. This would be weighed up before sentencing. And it's so easy to shoot the wrong person wearing the same colour gang in a shootout. It's not malicious behaviour most of the time and even if it is and the person has proved through X amount of playtime and no rule breaks not to be perma banned for a mistake in a game mode essentially based around the medium of human nature? For minor infractions, staff can warn instead of punish, which avoid the ban. generally, from what I've seen, the bans are coming after multiple infractions. Yes, maybe the "straw that broke the camels back" was minor, but for instance, it takes 6 NRPs to get banned....it wasn't the one minor infraction, it was the series of 6 NRPs which were ignored then the player continues to break a rule. Bans are not always permanent. There is an appeal process, and many (even severe) DM bans are eventually lifted. if a player can't stop DMing, a 30 day break may be what is required to get them to adjust their behavior. As far as mistakes go - mistakes are taken into account, I have seen plenty of mistakes made that the decision was a warning, or a note on the account instead of a punishment at all. There is a system in place to avoid these types of bans for minor offenses, or mistakes. That aside, its hard for a staff member to distinguish between a mistake and intentional DMing. If breaks are given and Bans are not issued because it was claimed to be a mistake, everyone will just say it was a mistake. (like how we see constant "my bike was stolen from an NCZ" reports, thinking they will get their bike back without question. More times then not staff proves the bike wasn't in an NCZ.) Sadly, when some people see a certain excuse or defense gets you out of a punishment, some people will abuse that. So we have to go off the evidence, and overall behavior of the player involved, and not assumptions it might have been a mistake. (side note: when players fess up and say "damn my fault, yah I did it, sorry", staff does take that into account) Lastly - Your overall point is individual reports are being punished excessively. If you feel that is the case, the suggestion should be to adjust how we review and judge DMs and NRPs, rather then just wipe out all offenses. If staff is being unfair and handing out frivolous or unwarranted punishments, then that needs to be addressed. I personally don't see that as the case, in many cases rule-breaks are thrown out due to lack of evidence, or both parties settling things ICly. Particularly when it comes to DM#2 offenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonAnderson Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 +1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigET Posted April 11, 2020 Report Share Posted April 11, 2020 (edited) 100% Agree, I myself have only a few punishments on my record. But the amount of time I have put into the game makes me slightly scared to even play incase I run someone over with decync or get baited into a report because someone is wanting to have a forum war and get banned then all my hard work over the space of a full year, 30 IRL straight days playing will be just lost. Completely. I agree stuff like RWT have hacking should be perm ban instantly because you have to actively go out your way to do that but everything else needs to expire over a certain amount of time. Massively agree with this please implement this +1 Edited April 11, 2020 by TheBigET 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankieP Posted April 27, 2020 Report Share Posted April 27, 2020 +1 People will invest thousands of hours (and often real money) into Eclipse and then suddenly get a ban because of a dumb mistake (some folks tend to forget that we're all human) or because someone got clapped and couldn't accept the L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PingasOner Posted April 29, 2020 Report Share Posted April 29, 2020 +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrJangoon Posted May 1, 2020 Report Share Posted May 1, 2020 +1 I messed up my Alog a while back and hae changed, but its too late to void the issues. Maybe if I showed good RP for a long time, it should void itself IMO 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelle Posted May 11, 2020 Report Share Posted May 11, 2020 +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saif Posted May 27, 2020 Report Share Posted May 27, 2020 +1, people learn, change and evolve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrJangoon Posted May 27, 2020 Report Share Posted May 27, 2020 (edited) 0, I am neutral on this. If this rule is applied, then I will eventually lose my alog if I stay clean. But I may be encouraged to begin nrp again Edited May 27, 2020 by MrJangoon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
