Prison Sentence Reform

[MusketDeezNuts]

+1 nice suggestion

[trashplayboi]

Allow prisoners to have jobs inside prison, make a little circle marker like at the mines and give them the opportunity to do some jobs. 

Have people sweep the yard, go out with some guards to chop wood, do the prisoners laundy, have a kitchen where prisoners can cook meals for others etc. That way, people can chose to be alone in their cells, socialise or go on jobs and earn a little bit of money while in prison. 

[Daniel_Underwood]

-1 Prison still needs many improvements it's only AFK simulator at the moment. Introduce jobs, something to do inside it, then think about making the sentences longer.

[MrSilky]

+1 but this is conditional.

DOC needs to have some strict RP regulations (similar to how PD are regulated) so that their RP can be inclusive of all involved. Whenever I get arrested on Roberto and taken to Bolling Broke, whatever RP I try, it is always responded with "/do no success". Then if I try to counter that RPly, I get tased, cuffed and carried (/carrybody) to a cell and get locked inside (or solitary) with no means of roleplaying in-between. 

The whole point of DOC and the new prison was to develop roleplay, not to rush it and get /prison stats up. 

As for script support, I don't think anything needs adding. Roleplay doesn't require script, just props. The new prison has plenty of props and roleplay is user created so further script support is un-required in my opinion.

[AEEKAY]

56 minutes ago, MrSilky said:

+1 but this is conditional.

DOC needs to have some strict RP regulations (similar to how PD are regulated) so that their RP can be inclusive of all involved. Whenever I get arrested on Roberto and taken to Bolling Broke, whatever RP I try, it is always responded with "/do no success". Then if I try to counter that RPly, I get tased, cuffed and carried (/carrybody) to a cell and get locked inside (or solitary) with no means of roleplaying in-between. 

The whole point of DOC and the new prison was to develop roleplay, not to rush it and get /prison stats up. 

As for script support, I don't think anything needs adding. Roleplay doesn't require script, just props. The new prison has plenty of props and roleplay is user created so further script support is un-required in my opinion.

 

2 hours ago, trashplayboi said:

Allow prisoners to have jobs inside prison, make a little circle marker like at the mines and give them the opportunity to do some jobs. 

Have people sweep the yard, go out with some guards to chop wood, do the prisoners laundy, have a kitchen where prisoners can cook meals for others etc. That way, people can chose to be alone in their cells, socialise or go on jobs and earn a little bit of money while in prison. 

 

+1 

[Wizzidy]

4 hours ago, trashplayboi said:

Allow prisoners to have jobs inside prison, make a little circle marker like at the mines and give them the opportunity to do some jobs. 

Have people sweep the yard, go out with some guards to chop wood, do the prisoners laundy, have a kitchen where prisoners can cook meals for others etc. That way, people can chose to be alone in their cells, socialise or go on jobs and earn a little bit of money while in prison. 

At the DOC we have been playing with this, but there is so much potential for abuse if you let inmates out to do work... that being said I think its a great idea... also PD MD Mechanics... all have secondary income, where DOC only has government... so we can't actually grow without government consent... so this could be a way to bypass it... working in the prison could be taxed.. part of it going to the inmate and part of it going to the prison.

[Wizzidy]

2 hours ago, MrSilky said:

+1 but this is conditional.

DOC needs to have some strict RP regulations (similar to how PD are regulated) so that their RP can be inclusive of all involved. Whenever I get arrested on Roberto and taken to Bolling Broke, whatever RP I try, it is always responded with "/do no success". Then if I try to counter that RPly, I get tased, cuffed and carried (/carrybody) to a cell and get locked inside (or solitary) with no means of roleplaying in-between. 

The whole point of DOC and the new prison was to develop roleplay, not to rush it and get /prison stats up. 

As for script support, I don't think anything needs adding. Roleplay doesn't require script, just props. The new prison has plenty of props and roleplay is user created so further script support is un-required in my opinion.

Not exactly sure who did this to you, but unless we are absolutely overwhelmed we almost always try to RP resistance.... Honestly more than I have ever seen PD because we dont just shoot you. The taze and carry body thing is also against policy, if it happened to you report it to DOC IA please. Also for /do no success a person would have to reasonably explain why... or be in violation of server RP standards... I have had all kinds of prison RP experiences, people smuggling radios in under their ballsacks, guns and knives tossed over a fence....f it happens a lot but like expecting PD to deal with a court case for every single arrest, we do not have time to RP a prison break or hostage situation for every inmate... and some of them are super greedy... they are known runners and fighters so we RP special precautions to try and limit the time they take from other prisoners. 

We have a lot of standards at the DOC they are just hard to keep in check with no reports made and a literal clown fiesta non stop coming in with 3-4 people to process all of them and RP with PD and other inmates... we do our best but honestly its exhausting every hour you are there because it feels unfair that your time is stretched....

As for the props... those props are BS and the new cell block objects are BS... no way would an inmate ever be given open access to wooden tables and pool sticks... people keep suggesting we should RP with that stuff that is nonRP to begin with... and if they want that we can just keep them locked in their cells all day... so its a double edged sword... either we force people into cells for the entirety of their prison sentence... or we cannot RP a fucking barfight with 5 inmates every time we process a 10-15 when we get like 30+ a night... 

There needs to be something for inmates to due that does not solely require RP from guards... we are stretched too thin with the time we have, longer prison sentences would let them RP with each other more, but most dont want to RP so something scripted would be helpful... and definitely charges... the fact that inmates aren't punished with jailtime for doing crimes in jail makes it far too common.... but PD has made it clear they wont add charges for us so DOC needs the right to add for crime and remove time for good behavior (parole board regulated)

[DGanja]

13 hours ago, Wizzidy said:

name changing doesnt fix anything because PD has begun ooc denying people and applying ooc knowledge to charges because why not...  also hardly any cops? 





I think you might be sleeping... I am more likely to see a cop than anything else in this city...

I'm a straight gang banger always robbing in the streets, always hitting stores or holding labs. I usually pull over if engaged by officers for the RP, but for a 5 hour sentence I'll just take my bike up into the hills. This wouldn't encourage rp with officers instead would discourage it. 

[Bala]

9 minutes ago, DGanja said:

I'm a straight gang banger always robbing in the streets, always hitting stores or holding labs. I usually pull over if engaged by officers for the RP, but for a 5 hour sentence I'll just take my bike up into the hills. This wouldn't encourage rp with officers instead would discourage it. 

Maybe I can put it in perspective for you. If you do all that dirt @DGanja and you roleplay with cops, you get 2 hours. If you do all that dirt and you flee as well, you get 2 hours.

If you thinking about the time, you'll think about the crime. You're always going to do dirt but you are going to fight harder and smarter to stay out of prison if you know more time is coming your way. 

[Paulo]

+ 1 Great Suggestion
Don't like to recall the amount of times I've been adding charges to criminals and they just say "I've already got maximum sentence". However I do feel some in-prison games like chess should be scripted in to help make prison seem like less of a drag.

[YuSoHelpful]

+1 Completely agree with @GOAT. Very good and well-described suggestion!

[DGanja]

38 minutes ago, GOAT said:

Maybe I can put it in perspective for you. If you do all that dirt @DGanja and you roleplay with cops, you get 2 hours. If you do all that dirt and you flee as well, you get 2 hours.

If you thinking about the time, you'll think about the crime. You're always going to do dirt but you are going to fight harder and smarter to stay out of prison if you know more time is coming your way. 

Anytime I get engaged by cops with lights and sirens I always take into consideration the time I could spend for fleeing. 2 hours I think is a fair time to be locked in a cell doing not a single thing but hitting my w key every 10 minutes. Now I'll have to suffer 5 hours of that? Inevitably we don't know until this is in full swing what effects it will have but I don't see this adding more RP or anything like that, it'll just promote the "I gotta win and gotta get away from police mentality" and thus I think the jail population would drop. Leaving even less to do on the inside. Criminals imo have it hard at the moment aside from selling weapons etc... Since drugs hardly sell for anything and there's nothing to do if not an official faction it doesn't make sense to kick criminals down even more. Criminal RP could use some tweeks so it's not just hands up but what else is there as a criminal to do? So now since I already have a record and can't get a government job, I have to stick with criminal RP. If more was added for criminals to do around the city that was illegal, I'd definitely be open to longer jail time but as is I dont think it's a realistic issue. If cops think it's hard as is rounding up criminals, imagine when people are considering 5 hours for their wreckless driving charges etc... Noone will stop. We'll either pull over and get charged and arrested for ticket accumulation or I flee and stand a good chance at losing the officers. 

Edited June 6, 2019 by DGanja

[alexalex303]

10 minutes ago, DGanja said:

Anytime I get engaged by cops with lights and sirens I always take into consideration the time I could spend for fleeing. 2 hours I think is a long time to be locked in a cell doing not a single thing but hitting my w key every 10 minutes. Now I'll have to suffer 5 hours of that? Inevitably we don't know until this is in full swing what effects it will have but I don't see this adding more RP or anything like that, it'll just promote the "I gotta win and gotta get away from police mentality" and thus I think the jail population would drop. Leaving even less to do on the inside

It's the opposite. People that already have 2 hours in charges will do anything because they can not get any more. If they knew that committing more crimes means more prison time, they might make different choices. It also comes down to doing crime in a smart way, if you are decent about it, you will never see a cop. If you run from traffic stops or rob in the middle of the street, then you can't complain about the prison time.

Edited June 6, 2019 by alexalex303

[Scott Cleverley]

The thing with this server is people don't get that you should be afraid to go to jail. I have watched loads of documentary about mafia/gangs, guess what, once they would get caught they would snitch on each other since it is a big difference between being wealthy and rotting in a jail and here people don't care if they get caught. I understand that in reality some people ain't afraid to go to jail, but it's because they have mental problems in the first place.

I don't think that if we increase time anything will change, people will just try to evade even more from PD. The problem what this server has, that people don't understand how role play works in the first place, now everyone is running as a hero, who is not afraid to get tazed, shot, punched or stabbed when irl you would try to avoid such situations.
Second thing people don't understand that street bikes shouldn't go off road expecialy hachou street bike ( it would litteraly crash even if there would be some sand on street) but people just drives trough the mountains with it and so on which is bs in the first place. If they see blocked road they won't decrease speed they will just increase it and try to ram the cars.

What I'm saying is that the problem is with people mindset on this server, other true rp servers gives you 15 minutes jail time and so on, but you roleplay that you don't want to get there in the first place and act like you care about it.

[Wizzidy]

14 minutes ago, Scott Cleverley said:

The thing with this server is people don't get that you should be afraid to go to jail. I have watched loads of documentary about mafia/gangs, guess what, once they would get caught they would snitch on each other since it is a big difference between being wealthy and rotting in a jail and here people don't care if they get caught. I understand that in reality some people ain't afraid to go to jail, but it's because they have mental problems in the first place.

I don't think that if we increase time anything will change, people will just try to evade even more from PD. The problem what this server has, that people don't understand how role play works in the first place, now everyone is running as a hero, who is not afraid to get tazed, shot, punched or stabbed when irl you would try to avoid such situations.
Second thing people don't understand that street bikes shouldn't go off road expecialy hachou street bike ( it would litteraly crash even if there would be some sand on street) but people just drives trough the mountains with it and so on which is bs in the first place. If they see blocked road they won't decrease speed they will just increase it and try to ram the cars.

What I'm saying is that the problem is with people mindset on this server, other true rp servers gives you 15 minutes jail time and so on, but you roleplay that you don't want to get there in the first place and act like you care about it.

Yea prison and time in prison isnt really respected, we cant add time for crime in prison, and the cap on prison time is relatively low... I think a 2 hour cap on jailtime should not be the case... I feel like it should be a 30 minute cap, but every charge can stack... so when I see people pulled over with like 20 charges... it means something and nobody should be getting 120 months of prison time for reckless operation... PD and the government need to change that speeding charge...

Edited June 6, 2019 by Wizzidy

[DGanja]

1 hour ago, Wizzidy said:

Yea prison and time in prison isnt really respected, we cant add time for crime in prison, and the cap on prison time is relatively low... I think a 2 hour cap on jailtime should not be the case... I feel like it should be a 30 minute cap, but every charge can stack... so when I see people pulled over with like 20 charges... it means something and nobody should be getting 120 months of prison time for reckless operation... PD and the government need to change that speeding charge...

I definitely think that there should be a way to add charges in prison to keep unruly inmates longer as IRL you wouldn't be released for stomping out an inmate or guard. However for people outside of jail I don't think it should be changed to 5 hours just as said above I think it would deter even more RP from gangs towards cops. People in jail should have time added for commiting more crimes on the inside. Maybe then it would deter the RP I've seen in prison.

Ie waiting with 5 other inmates to jump guards who come through gate etc... They deserve more than just being locked in a cell. 

[Jbacon]

I like this idea.
@Wizzidy 95% of cops are not admins, so running around admin jailing, is not true.
The ones that mention cops placing charges on ids.... I have personally placed charges on someone that I know or saw a short while before without a mask on, and can visually recognize people. I don't alias 90% of criminals in the city, until they become repeat offenders that I see daily, and can recognize their car, cloths hair and some of the face features. (Yes I do look that closely)

I like the ideas mentioned above in the original suggestion, I feel that the prison times in place for charges are sufficient, but max time is off... saying that, I would also like to see increased activities for criminals, On that note, it would be great if some of the official criminal factions can get with DOC and discuss ideas on roleplay and "scripted" activites in prison and put together of a list of ideas they like and present it to their faction managers. (Which for those unfamiliar with the system, is the most streamline and best way to get your suggestions heard by the right people.)

I disagree with you on the @Wizzidy30min cap on jail times, that is just WAY to short... considering after the arrest a lot of officers file arrest reports, and duty reports... or if you happen to kill a cop while getting arrested... you get 30mins of jail, and at the same time hes honoring the 30min new life rule. I think that 2 hours is to short, but before increase id like to see the criminal factions get together with DOC and their faction handlers and sort out some ideas, and present them for development.

I agree with a few of the others stating, "I have max-time anyways" might as well kill as many cops as I can. This is a terrible mindset as your metagaming the prison sentence information to your character, as ICLY your being prisoned for YEARs, not minutes. Hence why when your arrested for 120mins, cops say MONTHS, and if your going to mission row they say days or weeks. I think a lot of this can be avoided with better RP quality, don't get me wrong there are plenty that RP well, and smart on criminals, some that often outsmart cops and know how to use the system to their advantage... then you have others that just don't give a damn and are here to be well, we are all familiar with the "hands up this is ROBBBBB", or you have 3 seconds or I shoot.... don't know about you guys but if im talking to someone and you come yelling at me 3 seconds or a I shoot its gonna take me a couple seconds to even realize your there... assuming your voip is working, and/or im watching text chat, as most of you are aware, one of the biggest killers in our city is (most you to young to remember, but anyone remember the car game Carmagedon… well that's our streets) cars.

Thanks and I love the suggestions! Well thought out well presented!

[Wizzidy]

28 minutes ago, Jbacon said:

I like this idea.
@Wizzidy 95% of cops are not admins, so running around admin jailing, is not true.
The ones that mention cops placing charges on ids.... I have personally placed charges on someone that I know or saw a short while before without a mask on, and can visually recognize people. I don't alias 90% of criminals in the city, until they become repeat offenders that I see daily, and can recognize their car, cloths hair and some of the face features. (Yes I do look that closely)

I like the ideas mentioned above in the original suggestion, I feel that the prison times in place for charges are sufficient, but max time is off... saying that, I would also like to see increased activities for criminals, On that note, it would be great if some of the official criminal factions can get with DOC and discuss ideas on roleplay and "scripted" activites in prison and put together of a list of ideas they like and present it to their faction managers. (Which for those unfamiliar with the system, is the most streamline and best way to get your suggestions heard by the right people.)

I disagree with you on the @Wizzidy30min cap on jail times, that is just WAY to short... considering after the arrest a lot of officers file arrest reports, and duty reports... or if you happen to kill a cop while getting arrested... you get 30mins of jail, and at the same time hes honoring the 30min new life rule. I think that 2 hours is to short, but before increase id like to see the criminal factions get together with DOC and their faction handlers and sort out some ideas, and present them for development.

I agree with a few of the others stating, "I have max-time anyways" might as well kill as many cops as I can. This is a terrible mindset as your metagaming the prison sentence information to your character, as ICLY your being prisoned for YEARs, not minutes. Hence why when your arrested for 120mins, cops say MONTHS, and if your going to mission row they say days or weeks. I think a lot of this can be avoided with better RP quality, don't get me wrong there are plenty that RP well, and smart on criminals, some that often outsmart cops and know how to use the system to their advantage... then you have others that just don't give a damn and are here to be well, we are all familiar with the "hands up this is ROBBBBB", or you have 3 seconds or I shoot.... don't know about you guys but if im talking to someone and you come yelling at me 3 seconds or a I shoot its gonna take me a couple seconds to even realize your there... assuming your voip is working, and/or im watching text chat, as most of you are aware, one of the biggest killers in our city is (most you to young to remember, but anyone remember the car game Carmagedon… well that's our streets) cars.

Thanks and I love the suggestions! Well thought out well presented!

@Jbacon The admin jailing thing isnt actually an admin thing I wasnt saying they were admins I was pointing to the fact that they put people in prison and there is nothing really to do... so it is essentially an admin jail... I was referencing something from a different post. I wasnt implying any sort of that admin stuff, in fact most of the server rped like our admin team we wouldnt have these issues. A lot of fun with those guys.

And the 30min cap was more aimed at like reckless operation and shit... a lot of accessory and other crimes still get really huge jailtime. Killing a person should be treated as a bigger charge so there is variation my idea was like crude at best so I agree on some level, mostly to point out that right now you get 120 months for speeding tickets and 120 months for killing an officer... and 0 months for killing a DOC employee....

Maybe stacking sentences but with diminishing returns? So repeat offenders always have risk but it doesnt get too nuts that they can never play again? 

And I agree its a two prong necessity, with both a need for scripted aid and RP reform... a lot of which just requires admitting it is good to try to start...

Edited June 6, 2019 by Wizzidy

[Jbacon]

fair enough, I understand more clearly your point, and can see that it could feel as if its an ooc punishment when being jailed, but, prison is what you make it of course, ive been in jail a few times on my criminal and have enjoyed it, but that's because I make is fun for myself and others. 

I feel reducing the jtime for repeat offenders is not a good idea, I think its as simple as slowing down in NCZs and you wont get them.... which again refers to rp quality of players.

[CrazyAng3l]

id say +1 if they made prisoners with a lot of stuff to do lie prison gangs escape prison, work, and minigames but otherwise no. I want realistic prison with stuff to do cuz just doing one job for 5 hours is boring.

[billzachos]

+1

[padpilot]

This is a great thread. Good work mate.

 

Just keep in mind though guys. Removing the AFK timer and asking players to be present for 3 hours with very little to do is a bit mean.

 

Implementing a system which they have to do is also mean. .

Removing the AFK timer is just a bad idea. Even when there is stuff to do in prison people should still be able to go into their cells and serve their prison time in peace. We shouldn't force someone to work in the kitchens or anything. 

I think that you have some great ideas though and the tiered system is the best Ive heard so far. 

 

I make the suggestion of specifically targeting members of faction gangs and allocate then a higher prison time. This would be RP by "gangs damaging the community and disrupting order within Los Santos"

There should be a legal draw back to being in a gang. Yes you get more protection on the streets, more back up and such but the law doesn't appreciate your gang activities and thus gives a harder sentence". 

Target faction members first with newer systems and use then as a testing for the changes . 

Just my input. 

Edited June 9, 2019 by padpilot

[alexalex303]

 

On 6/9/2019 at 5:57 PM, padpilot said:

I make the suggestion of specifically targeting members of faction gangs and allocate then a higher prison time. This would be RP by "gangs damaging the community and disrupting order within Los Santos"

There should be a legal draw back to being in a gang. Yes you get more protection on the streets, more back up and such but the law doesn't appreciate your gang activities and thus gives a harder sentence". 

Target faction members first with newer systems and use then as a testing for the changes . 

Just my input. 

That's also an interesting idea. 

[CrowCargo]

The concept of going to prison/Jail is that it should serve as a detterent or opportunity to become reformed, and currently in my oppinion the criminal activity in the server is not deterred by the current jail times nor is there incentive to reform either. By removing criminals from the streets with longer scentences, it should not only make the criminals change their modus operandi, but it would also improve the quality of life for civillian RPrs, as there would be less criminals readily roaming the streets to rob them in the first place. Being a criminal is a choice. No one is forcing you to rob people or property, and no one is telling you that you have to engage in the arms race of illegal weaponry either. If you choose to engage in it then you should face the consequences of meaniningful prison times when you are caught. In my oppinion the excuse of 'but prison RP is boring' doesnt wash. there is a simple way of avoiding it and that is not to commit crimes in the first place. This premise forms the basics of society, it serves to protect the civilian population first and foremost from mass criminality rather than feed the never ending cycle of repeat offences en masse. My legal job is sometimes boring, other times its extremely fun and a rewarding experience, just like in real life, but i don't avoid working due to the boring parts, I accept its a normal part of the ebb and flow of life, that basis should be no different for criminal RP too. As i said before, if you arent prepared to be incarcerated for 6-8 hours, then the option is there for you to not commit the crimes, no one is forcing you to do it. If you've found that your previous record means you can't get a legal job any longer because others have a clean record compared to your own, then you have welfare, it might suck, but thats what happenes when you are a detriment to a law obiding society.

 

[padpilot]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

20

40 minutes ago, CrowCargo said:

The concept of going to prison/Jail is that it should serve as a detterent or opportunity to become reformed, and currently in my oppinion the criminal activity in the server is not deterred by the current jail times nor is there incentive to reform either. By removing criminals from the streets with longer sentences, it should not only make the criminals change their modus operandi, but it would also improve the quality of life for civillian RPrs, as there would be less criminals readily roaming the streets to rob them in the first place. Being a criminal is a choice. No one is forcing you to rob people or property, and no one is telling you that you have to engage in the arms race of illegal weaponry either. If you choose to engage in it then you should face the consequences of meaniningful prison times when you are caught. In my oppinion the excuse of 'but prison RP is boring' doesnt wash. there is a simple way of avoiding it and that is not to commit crimes in the first place. This premise forms the basics of society, it serves to protect the civilian population first and foremost from mass criminality rather than feed the never ending cycle of repeat offences en masse. My legal job is sometimes boring, other times its extremely fun and a rewarding experience, just like in real life, but i don't avoid working due to the boring parts, I accept its a normal part of the ebb and flow of life, that basis should be no different for criminal RP too. As i said before, if you arent prepared to be incarcerated for 6-8 hours, then the option is there for you to not commit the crimes, no one is forcing you to do it. If you've found that your previous record means you can't get a legal job any longer because others have a clean record compared to your own, then you have welfare, it might suck, but thats what happenes when you are a detriment to a law obiding society.

 

You suggest meaningful RP. I think you would be surprised how unfulfilling a world with no or very little threat would be. Citizens RP is increased with the chances of theft at any time, and its the same for the criminals, they both need each other. What you suggest is 6-8 hours worth of prison time. This is almost an entire days work IRL. Logistically and to keep the game entertaining I believe this is just an unrealistic amount of time to ask someone to stay in prison. You highlight problems why simply increasing prison times is not enough, I ask you if everyone is in prison for up to 8 hours, who are creating RP opportunities on the streets. By placing so many into a confined, NON-RP driven environment you would actually be damaging the server IMO, the goal is to hand out punishments that fit the crime whilst allowing the player to return to active RP out of prison as soon as possible. A citizen on the street can create more RP than when in prison. Also, imagine, you work all week, you want to play, but you waste your entire Saturday AFK on GTA 5 RP, I mean, it's just not realistic or healthy for that matter. 

 

IMO you miss the point with civilian RP, why can't civilians Dand together and 1. Riot for more police to improve things 2. take action themselves 3. employ security firms (there are people trying to get these security firms off the ground right now because of the gangs, what you suggest would remove their need to do so) 4. civilians could at least start to form unions and coalitions of small independent mining jobs and operations, (just have a small crew, one on foundry, one on the mine, every time someone leaves the  mine, they radio the description of the vehicle to those at the foundry, this provides a clue as to who should be turning up at the foundry or not, those that didn't leave the mine and yet turn up at foundry ought to be treated with suspicion). The civilian RP opportunities due to increased gang activity are actually heightened and not diminished as you would suggest. Remove the threat of gangs to as higher level as you suggest would certainly remove a lot of the appealing substance the server has which attracts new and returning players. 

Just my thought mate. Good to see a live active thread  good job guys