Jump to content
Bala

Prison Sentence Reform

Recommended Posts

@padpilot

I think that's why it's important to find a number that we're more or less all willing to live with. I believe I said in my original post that PD needs criminals, it wouldn't be in our interests for crime to stop altogether but I do think criminals are far too brazen and open about their activities in this server. This is in part because they know even if they get caught, the most they'll do is two hours or 90 minutes with VIP. So I think we all know the number isn't 2

That being said, we start fucking people with 6-8 hour sentences and it'll impact criminal roleplay too much and also cause more PD v. Criminal drama which ideally we're looking to avoid. Based on the assumption that your average criminal plays 3 hours a day, I think 5 hours is the magic number for this server. That's enough time to make a prison break worth it, enough time to get some prison RP between DOC/Prisoners and also, too much to spend it all AFK but not so much you're spending 2-3 days of your week sitting in the slammer.

I feel like my suggestion doesn't kill crime off but there is also the penalty there for those that constantly break the law or do the high level stuff.

Oh and as an edit, criminals don't need overblown lawyer/court shit. It's not gunna get done right, criminals just have to feel cops are accountable for their arrests and an independent panel would achieve that IMO for the cases where it's most impactful.

Edited by GOAT
Link to comment
Share on other sites

-0 Prison RP sucks and increasing the amount of people stuck in the same RP black-hole doesn't make it better. I HIGHLY support increasing prison times, but only if it can be served while on another character or while offline. I would support a 4 hour prison time with jobs that give time off, but other than that you would just bore your playerbase to death in my opinion. Prison RP sounds good in theory, but it would get boring very very fast just staring at the walls.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, GOAT said:

@padpilot

I think that's why it's important to find a number that we're more or less all willing to live with. I believe I said in my original post that PD needs criminals, it wouldn't be in our interests for crime to stop altogether but I do think criminals are far too brazen and open about their activities in this server. This is in part because they know even if they get caught, the most they'll do is two hours or 90 minutes with VIP. So I think we all know the number isn't 2

That being said, we start fucking people with 6-8 hour sentences and it'll impact criminal roleplay too much and also cause more PD v. Criminal drama which ideally we're looking to avoid. Based on the assumption that your average criminal plays 3 hours a day, I think 5 hours is the magic number for this server. That's enough time to make a prison break worth it, enough time to get some prison RP between DOC/Prisoners and also, too much to spend it all AFK but not so much you're spending 2-3 days of your week sitting in the slammer.

I feel like my suggestion doesn't kill crime off but there is also the penalty there for those that constantly break the law or do the high level stuff.

Oh and as an edit, criminals don't need overblown lawyer/court shit. It's not gunna get done right, criminals just have to feel cops are accountable for their arrests and an independent panel would achieve that IMO for the cases where it's most impactful.

Thank you for your response. You raise some great points and i hope that the system gets the attention it requires and your points are taken on board. Ill have to visit prison a few more time to get a vibe of the place more. For now, though, just a few product placements would make a huge difference. 

1. The addition of mining. Exactly the same as the mines but in a different location. Build a cage in the desert and tele prisoners there from the prison after entering a marker located inside the prison. Here they can work off their speeding fines and other monetary fines (correct balaning and % of payout would need to be discovered) 

                    a) people could come and laugh at the prisoners, people or friends of prisoners could try to sneak them something in, its the guards job to stop them, this gives everyone just more RP. Either the prisoners have ways to entertain themselves and create RP inside prison, or we place prisoners in situatons where they provide rp for other. 

2. A poker table. allow prisoners to play poker and build up an amount of money. However, this is only prison money and may only be used towards prison things (bribing guards, getting free from solitary, increasing the newly implemented mining rate so not paying off fines at decreased rates. 

                   a) So you play poker, earn enough prison points or prison rep points, you are then able to get things into prison. This if this as a credit you earn where you can spend these credits at a Payphone on the prison wall which you contact people and get them to smuggle stuff into prison (scripted or RP) either way its more content (These can then be used for escape and roleplay scenarios). 
 

3. Prison jobs, sweeping floors, mopping up, these jobs have a drop percentage for certain items. (just a thought) - these items could be items only obtainable from prson "prison shank" "prison hooch" - some one could buy beer for everyone and everyone could get pissed in a cell togeher 🙂 

**These are not solutions but rather meaningful workarounds until a better system in implemented**

 

Edited by padpilot
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Criminal RP actually hinders civ rp currently to the point that civs basically have to hide and have no opportunity to have meaningful scenes that they enjoy. As stated, it should be a deterrent as civ rp is basically a black hole currently. Anytime you try to do something,  some scumlord decides to interrupt your rp with their low caliber, no quality rp because they need/want money.  Why punish civ rp to the punt that they don't even want to log in only to be faced with sitting in a ncz or getting robbed and possibly killed.  Try playing a civ in this city instead of scumlord and you'd understand the absurdity of robbing people in broad daylight on busy roads.  There should be something in place to regulate criminals to the same rp standard that civs are supposed to. Fear RP and valuing your freedom is largely ignored for the criminals.  It would make them be more creative in committing their crimes, which is what should be the case.

Edited by Reckless311
Corrections
  • Like 3
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Reckless311 said:

Criminal RP actually hinders civ rp currently to the point that civs basically have to hide and have no opportunity to have meaningful scenes that they enjoy. As stated, it should be a deterrent as civ rp is basically a black hole currently. Anytime you try to do something,  some scumlord decides to interrupt your rp with their low caliber, no quality rp because they need/want money.  Why punish civ rp to the punt that they don't even want to log in only to be faced with sitting in a ncz or getting robbed and possibly killed.  Try playing a civ in this city instead of scumlord and you'd understand the absurdity of robbing people in broad daylight on busy roads.  There should be something in place to regulate criminals to the same rp standard that civs are supposed to. Fear RP and valuing your freedom is largely ignored for the criminals.  It would make them be more creative in committing their crimes, which is what should be the case.

Honestly, this is probably under the surface a cops and robbers server. I'm not saying that civilian roleplay isn't important, because all roleplay is important but civilian roleplay is always going to be crushed underneath the heel of criminal roleplay. Most people here are criminals (whether in a gang or not) or cops so I suppose naturally you cater to those two groups with how you balance things. 

I hope that a suggestion like this might give you at least a little rest when doing your roleplay Reckless, as people hopefully wouldn't bother as much with innocent civilians when they know they don't have as much on them as the other factions would for example and it's not worth getting caught for a sum so small.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, GOAT said:

Honestly, this is probably under the surface a cops and robbers server. I'm not saying that civilian roleplay isn't important, because all roleplay is important but civilian roleplay is always going to be crushed underneath the heel of criminal roleplay. Most people here are criminals (whether in a gang or not) or cops so I suppose naturally you cater to those two groups with how you balance things. 

I hope that a suggestion like this might give you at least a little rest when doing your roleplay Reckless, as people hopefully wouldn't bother as much with innocent civilians when they know they don't have as much on them as the other factions would for example and it's not worth getting caught for a sum so small.

I've learned to carry no money and no items on me.  Plus to waste as much time as possible of the criminals while staying compliant and within the rules. It's all about the rp so a 15 minute robbery for nothing should be good.  This is a cops and robbers server, it isn't even hidden under the surface.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Reckless311 said:

Criminal RP actually hinders civ rp currently to the point that civs basically have to hide and have no opportunity to have meaningful scenes that they enjoy. As stated, it should be a deterrent as civ rp is basically a black hole currently. Anytime you try to do something,  some scumlord decides to interrupt your rp with their low caliber, no quality rp because they need/want money.  Why punish civ rp to the punt that they don't even want to log in only to be faced with sitting in a ncz or getting robbed and possibly killed.  Try playing a civ in this city instead of scumlord and you'd understand the absurdity of robbing people in broad daylight on busy roads.  There should be something in place to regulate criminals to the same rp standard that civs are supposed to. Fear RP and valuing your freedom is largely ignored for the criminals.  It would make them be more creative in committing their crimes, which is what should be the case.

valuing your freedom  <----- 100% this

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

+1 I've spoken to a lot of people on both sides of the fence, everyone agree's that the time should be increased, I do believe there needs to be stricter rules set in place for DOC to start RPing with prisoners, and also being something for prisoners to do while serving there time.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, MrWonanother said:

+1 I've spoken to a lot of people on both sides of the fence, everyone agree's that the time should be increased, I do believe there needs to be stricter rules set in place for DOC to start RPing with prisoners, and also being something for prisoners to do while serving there time.

Again as somebody who works at the DOC we RP as much as we can... but its pretty hard to do it while an injured inmate is swinging their fists at you and PD can't take them out of the prison and 90% of them just want out and dont respond to RP despite our only method of RP being props and imagination land.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

-1 

The expectation of serving nearly a full working day in an environment of min. roleplay, low interaction levels and in general an afk simulation. Crime is an issue for civilian roleplay, limiting it but on your calculations of each criminal having 2 hours free every day, your proposition motions that a criminal spends nearly 3 days in prison. An how often LEO's stack charges is appalling. Example: You see a body and carve it after a shoot out, here are your potential charges from that carving: Possession of Human Body Tissue (60mins)+ Abuse or Desecration of Dead Human Body (70mins) + Tampering with Evidence (45mins) = 3 hours for one simple action (Not factoring any items you have on you other then meat). I think 3-4 hours is more reasonable with only certain charges being from the "S.F" category that have the possibility to extend your sentence for example past 2.5 hours. You must be reasonable when it comes to players time.  

If you wish to have a judicial; if the PD motion to have a trial then the player could then face the full 5-hour sentence with the judges decided sentence. 

Edited by Tezhl
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, Tezhl said:

-1 

The expectation of serving nearly a full working day in an environment of min. roleplay, low interaction levels and in general an afk simulation. Crime is an issue for civilian roleplay, limiting it but on your calculations of each criminal having 2 hours free every day, your proposition motions that a criminal spends nearly 3 days in prison. An how often LEO's stack charges is appalling. Example: You see a body and carve it after a shoot out, here are your potential charges from that carving: Possession of Human Body Tissue (60mins)+ Abuse or Desecration of Dead Human Body (70mins) + Tampering with Evidence (45mins) = 3 hours for one simple action (Not factoring any items you have on you other then meat). I think 3-4 hours is more reasonable with only certain charges being from the "S.F" category that have the possibility to extend your sentence for example past 2.5 hours. You must be reasonable when it comes to players time.  

If you wish to have a judicial; if the PD motion to have a trial then the player could then face the full 5-hour sentence with the judges decided sentence. 

This would make sense but as someone who sees a lot of people come through prison, I can tell you 3 hours would not budge a lot of your career criminals,12 - 24 hours including offline time would make way more sense, because then they can play 2 hours, 5 hours or whatever and still be done by the next day... meaning if you get caught doing crime, come back tomorrow. As far as there being nothing to do in the prison, that is half your own making as a criminal because you decide the RP, and also check development...

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, Tezhl said:

-1 

The expectation of serving nearly a full working day in an environment of min. roleplay, low interaction levels and in general an afk simulation.

How about when criminals rob a person and chop their car, so they have to spend 3 days to get back the money for their gun, food, the money to Mors their car and anything else they might've had on them? Is that alright?

  • Upvote 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, alexalex303 said:

How about when criminals rob a person and chop their car, so they have to spend 3 days to get back the money for their gun, food, the money to Mors their car and anything else they might've had on them? Is that alright?

The average "legal" player typically has the following:  .50 which runs $4200-$4700, Food/Water - $550, Depending on the car $3000-$4092. Let's factor that into a common "starter-job" which will say postal. This typically makes $6000-$8500 an hour depending on your efficiency. The Combination of these goods would lead to about $7700-$9384. So between 1 full hour or 1 hour and 15 minutes. The math you proposed does not add up.  Now if you factored the player having a "heavy" then that revolks their "legal status" in the equation. 

Potential Criminal Earnings

Gun Resale for a .50 $4500-$5500 

Chop Vaule: $3000-$4150

Food/Drink Vaule: NOT USUALLY RESELLABLE 

Total Earnings for Criminals: $7500-$9650 

Potential Loss IF Caught:  

Possession of Illegal Firearms/Weapons (60 mines) $5000 Fine 

Illegal Sale of an Unlicensed Firearm / Ammunation (90 minutes) $7000 fine 

Armed Robbery (60 Minutes) $4000 fine

Grand Theft Auto (60 Minutes)  $7500 fine 

COST: 4 HOURS 30 MINUTES,  $23,500 FINES 

Meaning if caught they not only lost the time it took to perform the robbery but lost time in jail and in fines. This breaks down into the current prison time max. to about 4 hours and 23 minutes of lost time over the commission of the robbery. 

 

Equations used

Addition

 

8 hours ago, Wizzidy said:

This would make sense but as someone who sees a lot of people come through prison, I can tell you 3 hours would not budge a lot of your career criminals,12 - 24 hours including offline time would make way more sense, because then they can play 2 hours, 5 hours or whatever and still be done by the next day... meaning if you get caught doing crime, come back tomorrow. As far as there being nothing to do in the prison, that is half your own making as a criminal because you decide the RP, and also check development...

Now seeing something from a distance and being a member in its development are two separate sides of a coin. Let's look at it in different lights, with the proposed idea of "offline jail", what point would there be to have DOC if you could just log and call it a day. I'd say removing the AFK timer and setting it to 3 hours is reasonable as that to some standard forces interaction to keep entertainment. As you may not value "criminal rp" it does not make its actions voidable. Given criminal RP is very heavily restricted towards the actions they can perform; whereas a member of the DOC your opportunities to RP are endless.  

Edited by Tezhl
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Tezhl said:

Now seeing something from a distance and being a member in its development are two separate sides of a coin. Let's look at it in different lights, with the proposed idea of "offline jail", what point would there be to have DOC if you could just log and call it a day. I'd say removing the AFK timer and setting it to 3 hours is reasonable as that to some standard forces interaction to keep entertainment. As you may not value "criminal rp" it does not make its actions voidable. Given criminal RP is very heavily restricted towards the actions they can perform; whereas a member of the DOC your opportunities to RP are endless.  

I have played both sides of the coin... and also the thing is, currently the prison system encourages "waiting to get out" instead of prison RP... our opportunities for RP at the DOC are heavily restricted by the unwillingness of many criminals to do much other than try to get out. With the prison getting activities and currency in coming updates, the prisoner's should embrace the prison life as part of their RP too, not just making cash on the outside....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

+1

So my addition to this suggestion would just be to make the system a tad harsher. There shouldn't be a maximum sentence in my opinion, at least in regards to a timeline. What I mean is this. The more a person commits crimes the longer his next sentence should be. This may sound insane to some of the less creative brain-dead raid'm and kille'm criminals but it's actually for their own good. What this would do is make it so that the longer you were a criminal the more you'd be forced to adjust your decisions around crime.

Sure, you start out robbing a truck every couple of days for a few weeks, but you soon realize your prison sentences are getting up to 5 or 6 hours. The issue is compounding immensely and you'd really be better off just getting someone else to do the job for you. Really what this does is gives you two options half way through your characters career, three if you consider quitting. The first is you have to adapt to your situations and get better at not getting caught. If you can't do that you'll be serving 11 and 12 hour sentences in a few weeks time. The other solution is moving up the ladder and RECRUITING NEW PLAYERS to do this work for you. You train them as best you can and you take a piece of everything they make. With the current system you end up just getting like 13 guys, 4 of them have been there since the inception of the gang and they just do some sort of terrorist attack on a random player to steal their ore load. It's ridiculous. They know they're gunna do 5 hours MAX and they can wait that out by watching Netflix. However if you uncap their max time, each time the boss gets involved in a petty crime he's spending his precious time. You have to make time a currency, and you do this by making it limited. You make it limited by uncapping and increasing the sentencing time every time they get convicted.

As for "What to do while in jail?" and "Court Systems Don't Work" I have a fix for that as well.

First, take the list of crimes and set a severity scale on them with a time associated with it, it might look something like this.

Murder - 1hr - 5hrs

Attempted Murder 45mins - 3hrs

Assault 15 mins - 45mins

Petty Theft 5mins - 25mins

Etc etc...

Now that you've got your varied list, whenever a new convict get's arrested, he FIRST get's sentenced for the minimum times associated with all of his crimes. So if he killed someone and attempted to kill two other he'd get 3 Assault charges (45mins) + 1 Murder Charge (1 hr) + 2 Attempted Murder charges (1hr 30mins) for a grand total of 3 hours and 15 minutes. Not so bad for what sounds like something that went wacky. In my complete system you would then add a multiplier to this time due to any past crimes he committed but we'll leave that out for simplicity's sake.

Now this is where it gets FUN for everyone! This current charge has the propensity to go from 3 hours and 15 minutes to 12 hours and 30 minutes if the DA does his job right! From the moment the man get's arrested, the DA can get in touch with a Judge who's online, set up a court session and it can get under way. The DA has to argue for a higher sentence, if he does successfully, the judge can OK higher sentencing times for the player. The player is allowed to be summoned to defend his case, or to summon a Lawyer to help defend his case, to get the lowest possible sentencing available.

This will create more government jobs (organizers, DA's, Judges ect) and civillian jobs (Lawyers). There can be a process that must be followed and the City Council can vote on Judges ect. This gives the player something to do and look forward to while in jail and it creates a bunch of new roles for CIVILIAN PLAYERS (which we need desperately) to occupy. It's exciting and intense, the DA will have to decide which criminals he wants to let go early and which ones he wants to try to keep locked up, the player will get to attempt to either plead his case or call his lawyer, the judge will get to make a decision that ACTUALLY effects the players on the server.

And this doesn't have to be a one time system, it could be a ongoing process, the Lawyer could push for appeals and lower sentencing with promises of good behavior, parole, house arrest and all kinds of other fun things. If the player doesn't show up for his court date then what would happen in game is the same as what would happen in real life. The DA would present the case to the judge with the player not there and the judge would make a decision.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and our Privacy Policy. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.