MoonBurdy Posted January 18, 2020 Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 -1 While I agree that we need potential civ RP, there are IC ways to accomplish this, in fact that is RP in itself. The nightclub owner could hire legal security, not-so-legal protection, etc. There could easily be IC drama related to the nightclub and from reading this thread there has been plenty already. I think NCZs kill spicy interaction potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machete Posted January 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 I'm just looking for a way to stop the unrealistic amount of club raids. Might be fun for you guys to always raid them, its not as fun to always have your party crashed by others. I'm doing this to promote Civilian RP. I want more laidback social RP that doesn't involve the bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machete Posted January 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, MoonBurdy said: -1 While I agree that we need potential civ RP, there are IC ways to accomplish this, in fact that is RP in itself. The nightclub owner could hire legal security, not-so-legal protection, etc. There could easily be IC drama related to the nightclub and from reading this thread there has been plenty already. I think NCZs kill spicy interaction potential. Even with a security firm , you can't go up to 10 criminals storming inside of a building with heavy weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Pegorino Posted January 18, 2020 Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 15 minutes ago, reeceobz said: Have you ever tried being a criminal on this server? Yea haha I've got a crim account just don't use it as it got stale, Also jimmy was a crim at the beginning jsut didnt grt caught 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreMetal Posted January 18, 2020 Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 +1 Even in the USA where mass shootings happen daily you almost never hear of night club shootings, but you generally cannot even open a night club for an hour on this server without it being an invitation for some goons to ruin everyone elses fun with a boring ass DM raid. It's shit RP, no offense. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayGamble Posted January 18, 2020 Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 "The RP is shit, bla bla bla" ex·tor·tion /ikˈstôrSH(ə)n/ noun the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats. Just because you have a hard time seeing, or understanding the backstory.. doesn't mean it doesn't exist. No one should go into these clubs wanting to hurt anyone; it's simple a show of force saying "this can happen". I forgot everyone is a tough guy and wants to pull a gun in a situation that is entirely unwinnable, or believes they can simply hide behind PD, but to think extortion doesn't occur in America, and has been forever basically is a bit confusing, to say the least. Everyone loves to speak poorly on the standards of criminal RP, but the reality is a lack of understanding on the other side for what our actual goals are and it's a huge shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreMetal Posted January 18, 2020 Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 Extortion IRL also has massive consequences. Extortion on this server has next to no consequences. If the club owners had you arrested for extortion would you then discontinue the extortion RP? Probably not. Shit rp, no offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayGamble Posted January 18, 2020 Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 Just now, TreMetal said: Extortion IRL also has massive consequences. Extortion on this server has next to no consequences. If the club owners had you arrested for extortion would you then discontinue the extortion RP? Probably not. Shit rp, no offense. Fortunately we are smart enough to cover our tracks, by diluting the message through several steps, but if they did manage to catch us, it would definitely cease. Why would you think it would persist if we were caught? Strange assumption. There are next to no rewards either man, it's RP.. for the sake of RP, do you understand? Isn't that the goal at the end of the day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machete Posted January 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 (edited) I'd like to ask everyone to please stay on topic , no need for big arguments. I'd like to ask everyone to look at both perspectives both civilian and criminal. A simple +1 or -1 and your opinion is enough. Thank you Please be respectful to each other, no need for OOC insults. Edited January 18, 2020 by NM369 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyse Legend Posted January 18, 2020 Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 Complaining about IC actions OOC is soooooooo lame. You're getting extorted, it happens daily in life. Either pay, or get fucked over it's simple really. -1 keep IC situations simply IC, we don't need more NCZ's, we actually need less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaesarSeizure Posted January 18, 2020 Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 I think the biggest issue, from what was seen tonight, was that script wise attacking a club with people having heavies aimed at the door is impossible. The script does not allow for a realistic breach scenario, so you are left with having to blindly walk in without any kind of view inside and just get killed on the entrance + Players do not render at the same speed, so while someone entering will still be stuck on the entrance, the people inside will be able to start shooting at them. Fixing entering and exiting of interiors would be a better solution and would allow for a proper RP response, rather than shooting people who are just entering inside but are stuck due to the script. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapman Posted January 18, 2020 Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 -1 as I believe we have a lot of NCZs that have purpose behind them and I don’t think making player owned properties should be added to that list. Civilian roleplay can happen outside of NCZs and does and when it does it could have IC consequences. Roleplay is roleplay and if there’s negative IC consequences to it its bound to happen if the roleplay takes it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawpi Posted January 18, 2020 Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 Absolutely no to new NCZ, especially in places like this suggestion suggest. There is literally no need. You cannot have a No Crime Zone somewhere randomly, it would be highly unrealistic and would ruin even further the criminal role-playing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xoza Posted January 18, 2020 Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, Hoxton_Curry said: What loot? We had 8 people heavily armed, half of us even had 2 heavies or semi rare guns and you think we came there for 5 pistols and bottles of vodka? So, you're stating you had no real RP reason to raid the club and hold hostages. 7 hours ago, CallumMontie said: Just to add to the record I can't remember any time where The Tavern was properly raider, shot up etc, as of which operated successfully for months with criminals, civs and Leo's attending the event. This is due to successful management and not something a script should be utilised as life support for poor management and insufficient planning. The Tavern doesn't encounter issues primarily because of 'successful management', it's because it's run by a gang that is intimidating and retaliatory. Don't get me wrong, not, unrealistic, but definitely not why it hasn't encountered issues like raids. In turn, it's really the only group that has raided any other club or event. As for the NCZ recommendation... -1 We don't need personal NCZ's, but criminal elements should understand better risk vs. reward. Criminals realistically wouldn't raid a club of individuals who are not a threat or don't have anything of value. If you believe there was a violation of rules however, please submit a report. Edited January 18, 2020 by Xoza 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubsmeister Posted January 18, 2020 Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Xoza said: So, you're stating you had no real RP reason to raid the club and hold hostages. Again, you’re wrong. The reason was not to “loot” the nightclub. 2 weeks ago the owner was offered an opportunity to pay for security. He denied, told us to wave off and informed detectives about us. Ezekial said ICly: “I’m not worried about my club getting robbed, I told my guests not to bring anything anyway”. What kind of RP is that? Because of this behaviour we were left no choice but to show that we don’t play. The person extorting themself, who I will not reveal the identity of due to metagaming, was not involved in the raid. However I’m sure they will come back to the club soon enough to see if the owner has come to their senses. I hate to publicly have to reveal the bigger picture of our plan because you can’t stop complaining OOCly, but so be it I guess Edited January 18, 2020 by Rubsmeister 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isBrainDed Posted January 18, 2020 Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 Except the raid on the nightclub, lead to several high ranking members of criminal factions get arrested for accessories to murder of government employee, along with carrying illegal firearms for some other members. Is that really that great of an RP? Criminal empire risked and went to jail because someone didn't pay fees for "protection" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayGamble Posted January 18, 2020 Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 4 minutes ago, BrainDed said: Except the raid on the nightclub, lead to several high ranking members of criminal factions get arrested for accessories to murder of government employee, along with carrying illegal firearms for some other members. Is that really that great of an RP? Criminal empire risked and went to jail because someone didn't pay fees for "protection" Except for the part in which that "criminal empire" did everything correctly for the most part, blue wasn't associated with that situation until a lone officer ran into us, (which was entirely the opposite direction from the criminals who ACTUALLY committed the raid ran) and decided to play super cop, sparking a massive shoot out. Let's not talk about "great rp" from that scenario, because it'll just derail this thread entirely. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prezeey Posted January 18, 2020 Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 (edited) -1 to the NCZ, even though I agree that there is an entire map for RP, let criminals try to do something Edited January 18, 2020 by Prezeey Keeping it +/-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxas Posted January 18, 2020 Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 I’ve stayed out of this due to the fact that it’s pointless commenting just to argue about OOC issues or whatever. But my faction is and was involved in this situation, I just want to let everyone know that I would rather deal with everything that happened the next time I am IC. This has sparked a new RP for us now and hopefully all the others parties involved also, as a new faction, I don’t think it is in Jays best interest to try and wipe us from the server. Maybe I’m wrong and he doesn’t want new factions in the server but speaking to most staff members, they aren’t looking for the same 3-4 gangs for the rest of their lives. As per the suggestion, I think NCZs force OOC actions and cause problems further down the line. NCZ is a -1 for nightclubs from me but I do think something could be added to help nightclubs more scriptly. I’m not sure what but I think that’s what the topic of discussion should be. Regarding the whole “non-rp” from the gang that was inside the club, once they were in the RP from them wasn’t that bad, they gave demands and they used /me and /do pretty well. I don’t agree with the holding the nightclub door and shooting whoever enters due to the fact that the entering animation plays longer and you spawn in faster than they spawn in for you, which means they are able to shoot first. Again, something that he can fixed using scripts or bug fixes from the admins. Let’s try and stay on topic here, the post was about a suggestion, leave your -1 or +1 and a comment as to why. Don’t start bringing my faction, @JayGamble faction and other factions into the post just because you want to shout at someone for something completely unrelated. I am hoping you agree with me, and that Jay agrees with me that newer factions should be given a chance to succeed and not just wiped but they do have to follow IC law set by whoever is setting the law at the time. If you want me to clarify anything, @ me on the post and I will get back to you. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pazz Posted January 18, 2020 Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 -1, nightclubs shouldn't be a no crime zone, it'll limit the roleplay opportunities a nightclub has to offer that aren't always legal. It's unfortunate a club got shot up, but no, it shouldn't be a no crime zone. Take in-character precautions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isBrainDed Posted January 18, 2020 Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 You were still in the immediate area weren't you? Its not like the officer found you at your turf and started a shootout. You were literally behind the club all heavily armed. I am not approving that officers actions, but it happened and you are more than welcomed to make a report. And didn't you say that if the extortion was investigated and cracked, you would back away and not do it again? 10 hours ago, JayGamble said: Fortunately we are smart enough to cover our tracks, by diluting the message through several steps, but if they did manage to catch us, it would definitely cease. Why would you think it would persist if we were caught? Strange assumption. Will there be any consequences from this event? As for being on topic, there should be some protections for social events, maybe not in the sense of a full on NCZ, but the servers in past on SAMP, a lot of them had rules against daylight robberies in public places, which worked and made sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubsmeister Posted January 18, 2020 Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 (edited) 36 minutes ago, BrainDed said: Except the raid on the nightclub, lead to several high ranking members of criminal factions get arrested for accessories to murder of government employee, along with carrying illegal firearms for some other members. Is that really that great of an RP? Criminal empire risked and went to jail because someone didn't pay fees for "protection" You forget that it’s still a game. Is it realistic for the Chief of Police or the Sheriff to partake in SWAT and SED operations? No, but I understand that they still want to have fun too so you don’t see me complaining when @FatherOsborn rolls with a SWAT team because I understand he wants to have fun on this server too. This should go the same way for criminals. Is it realistic for Jay to shoot cops himself? Of course not, but do you really think he just wants to never partake in anything? Let’s be a little human here. Edited January 18, 2020 by Rubsmeister 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldari Posted January 18, 2020 Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 The RP last night, if rules were broken then report it. If you're dissatisfied with the RP, have any complaints or think something better should have been done then inform your handlers! They're there to support your factions, and anybody can reach out to a member of faction management. We plan to increase communication among factions in the future, so utilise your handlers and then we can look towards moving forward on any issues brought to us. There is little to gain for anybody by duelling it out on a forum post. My only reminder to the people involved is don't assume any party had bad intentions, everybody here is here to RP and everybody here has reasons for their RP, it is easy to assume other involved parties had bad intentions, but I'm sure from their perspective they went in entirely with good intentions. Remember, you often only ever see the tip of an RP story line, there is often a whole iceberg of backstory, development and interactions leading up to it that from perspective may seem ridiculous or nonsense, but from the perspective of those involved seems like a natural development. As for this post, lets keep it on topic from here. This is not the place to really be discussing future RP plans, for factions to argue or communicate and it is not the place to assume bad intentions of the other parties involved. Regards, Aldari_Tagril 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlin Posted January 18, 2020 Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 -1 for NCZs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z0thian Posted January 18, 2020 Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 -1 NCZ's stunt RP chances, not to mention it's more places for people to go hide when being chased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
