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Dylan Ortiz

Change the robbery rules back/Adjust them

By Dylan Ortiz, in Archive

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Dylan Ortiz Newbie

Dylan Ortiz

Posted
Posted

New rules 

15. Player Theft, Prison Breakout, and Kidnapping

  • Robberies should be conducted in a realistic manner with reasonable in-character motive using secluded areas. Players should not conduct minor robberies in situations with high risk. Desert or forest areas are considered secluded but witnesses should still be considered.

  • One cannot force victims to withdraw money, sell script assets, or give assets not present IC.

  • One cannot steal from players with NEW PLAYER above their head unless they have deliberately taken part in an active crime scene in which protection is temporarily lost.

  • Players may not steal from their faction treasury as the F4 menu is OOC.

  • Permission for prison break must be approved by a Senior Moderator+ prior to the attempt.

  • Players may participate in no more than 1 prison break attempt within 1 OOC week.

  • Players are allowed to kidnap or to take other players hostage for these specific reasons:

• You have to have a roleplay reason to attack the victim in accordance with the DM rules.

• If you attempt to commit robbery of a property, you are allowed to hold the players within that property until you have finished the robbery. An NPC is not a valid hostage.

• All included players may not take another hostage for 1 OOC week if police are involved.

 

The robbery rules need to be changed back or adjusted IMO. Since the rule was implemented it has been used as a severe ruleplay motive. I feel like if we want to rob someone IC the robbery should be kept IC, If we want to rob someone and risk going to jail for Armed robbery, Unlicensed firearm/Illegal, Brandishing a firearm, Face concealment, Receiving stolen property + more charges. It should be on us as it has IC consequences like several IRL hours in jail and big fines not OOC robbery rules.

Nearly everything PD does is deemed IC and i don't feel like criminals should be subject to these rules when there is so many IC consequences for criminals as it is. One robbery can lead to you spending 5+ hours in jail 50k+ in fines and losses/Impounding in a few seconds of fun. I feel like this rule is slowly killing the server and needs to be changed.

Here is my tipping point. I had just logged in and heard there was a chase happening over a Triad trying to rob James from LFM. During the chase i see an irish and followed him to see if there was going lead me to an ambush. During me following him i did not once give call outs nor did i tell anyone i was even following him, He then says in OOC after 30 seconds of following him "Reason for the chase" instantly going into /b ruining immersion. I told him to cut /b and continued to follow him. After a while of no ambush i stopped following him without giving any calls on what i was doing, Nothing had come from me following him, he was not robbed or hurt in anyway and then i was pmed from him again saying "What is your reason for the chase?" "And if so, Do you have proof providing your reason? Alright bet, Save your POV" All of this for following someone without even doing anything. 

This rule is majorly impacted from ruleplay and is ruining the crim life, at least for me and i do not wish to partake in 21 questions everytime i log in and drive. This rule alone is making me not want to log into game anymore as there is already way to much IC consequences for criminals actions as it is.

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Conner Apprentice

Conner

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Posted (edited)

+1 and this needs to be looked at from a hardcore criminal point of view. Not a PD main that has a crim character that they barely play or put effort into. All for the robbery rules protecting civillians that are just buying some clothes or filling their vehicle up at the gas station, that was needed and made the server better in that sense. But as Carlos said it's become a protection barrier for criminals that get caught lacking by opposition. Also never understood the "too public" thing, you think IRL a criminal would hesitate to rob because it's too public? IMO not at all. 

Edited by Conner
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LikeASumBoodie Newbie

LikeASumBoodie

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Posted (edited)

+1

It's almost all the time rule play and never actually roleplay when it comes to these type of things with crims. Countless and numerous reports have been made on this specific rule on player theft and it's just a hassle in general... I do believe a rework or a revert is needed as well.

Edited by LikeASumBoodie
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Fuz Newbie

Fuz

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Posted (edited)

I agree completely, this rule has single-handedly pushed nearly all the people I have met on the server away from the server or it has put them off criminal RP. I know personally that the biggest gangs and their members on the server no longer play/have disbanded and this rule was a major part of it. It has reduced to people spamming OOC and made the criminal aspect of the server not fun at all. The server has clearly pushed for keeping stuff IC and not dwell into OOC much, but this is a step in the wrong direction as criminals cannot operate and can no longer remain IC. 

It only benefits a select few people on the server such as civilians, because it is easier for them to put a report up and complain OOC, rather than deal with it IC. It affects more than 150/200 people (5 gangs with 40 members) on a day to day basis. How many civilians are there on the server on a daily basis? I doubt that the number it adds up to is anywhere close to the numbers criminals bring on the server, this rule benefits the minorities/newer players and not the people who can deal with it and the original players of the server. 

It must be adjusted/removed as it leads to nothing but ruleplay, the addition of it to the rulebook has allowed players to have an OOC get out of jail free card via the player reports, just because they don't want to get caught lacking due to their own foolishness.

People will argue that it will just encourage more PvP on the server but you are kidding yourself if you think the PvP side of things is not a major thing on the server. If seniors think this then they can easily adjust the rule by adding in things such as "actual public places (motorways, parking lots, near PD)" or "known/clear criminals physically representing gang colours", etc. 

Unfortunately for us, this will become another PD vs Crim argument and another good suggestion will be brushed under the carpet. I doubt the seniors want to remove the rule but we can only hope...

Edited by Fuz
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cedridge Apprentice

cedridge

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Posted

From the very first moment this rule got introduced, I seen absolutely 0 benefits from this, it may seem that I’m only saying this because “I only play this server to shoot” but this is not the case, to put simply, this rule itself started a downhill trend of crim rp where people moan in forums about every little loss, such as a gps or radio, constant /b spam asking for reason for this and reason for that and somehow this actual ruleplay has gone unnoticed and continues each day.

Another thing I’d like to mention and is all completely my opinion is that it just seems like all these new rules regarding NLR and NONrp robbery make ECRP a lawyer simulator where you need to be a lawyer with 30 years of experience to avoid getting punishments because you robbed a guy’s radio to get a rival gang’s frequency for “no reason”.

Now I understand that roleplay is the key feature of ECRP, but can someone come out and without lying to themselves say that the current state of the server is fine and that Eclipse Roleplay has not instead turned into Eclipse Ruleplay where people just want to win every situation and have forgotten the main concept of gaming itself, which is to have fun. All these toxic and pointless reports don’t solve a single thing and instead do the opposite by making people scared to have fun and enjoy thr game since they’re sitting on their 5th nonrp and are afraid that they’ll get banned and lose the hundreds or even thousands of hours of effort due to robbing a rival gang member in front of imaginary people that would “realistically” be there.

To conclude, I’m sure that I speak for a large majority of the community when I say that we don’t get on our computers to log into ECRP and be scared of ruleplayer #164 named Jimmy that reports for losing a GPS, and instead log on to have fun in our free time. All of what I just said is not meant to be taken as toxic in any way shape or form and I just wanted to give my honest opinion in the hopes that staff will hear our cries for a chance to co-operatively work on a better and more user-friendly set of rules and the betterment of our community.

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mikebumbum Newbie

mikebumbum

Posted
Posted (edited)

Huge +1

this needs to be looked at and needs to be looked at now. This is killing criminal RP which is the biggest community in the server if all the crims leave / get banned due to rules like this what do you have left? PD would be useless and would be here for literally parking tickets. I don't think anyone wants that as we all know PD wants just as much action as crims. The main problem is everything PD does is deemed IC meanwhile if I rob someone in an ENEMY gang I get questioned and can possibly get a punishment for it? Where is the fairness in that?

This rule along with the NLR rule need to looked at badly as these rules are literally freezing criminal RP I am actually scared to play the game and enjoy being a criminal and do criminal things because I don't want to have to be reported for every scenario and defend myself for literally playing the game. My gang has IC problems with other gangs and they think it is fine to come around us at gas stations and even at gang HQ's as literally there is an OOC barrier protecting them. Shouldn't we be able to RP as we please if I don't like a gang and I see them at a store or a gas station or anywhere for that matter why shouldn't I be able to rob them? My RP is that I don't like them do I really have to wait for them to go to a drug lab (which by the way no criminals actually use because now they are pointless with tables) to rob them? It's constantly restricting RP for criminals and we are bored and tired of being reported on a daily basis just for playing the game. 

How are official wars meant to happen? Something staff spent so much time making a whole new system and rules for with these new rules? If I can't rob other criminals except for at labs or chops how can problems arise? If we end up somehow fighting once and we kill the whole other side how is conflict supposed to escalate with NLR? It makes 0 sense should I really just forget that this other gang disrespected us? That's literally a whole chapter of RP gone from existence something that could have been a month long thing where everyone involved had fun. This just isn't the case anymore and its the reason you see so many people either not playing anymore or just going to PD because there is no criminal RP allowed to happen anymore.

These rules were made for protection of civs and new players which I guess is understandable but for these rules to be used in Crim to Crim conflicts is absolutely ridiculous. The losing side will ALWAYS complain about this rule as long as its in play and will push alot of rule play and 0 role play. If that's what we want so be it but I don't think that's the case. Lets make some type of rule change to where if you're dressed as a gang member this rule cant apply for you as your a hostile threat to a gang wearing gang colors / masks / and having guns out. Or just get rid of it as a whole as its severely ruined RP for us. Don't dress like a Triad if you don't wanna be robbed like one. If these sorts of rules don't get looked at and addressed a big portion of the community is eventually going to feel pushed away and not want to play anymore. There is days where I don't even wanna login so that I wont get reported for something petty. 

Lets make crim RP good again please hear us out as we all want to be able to have fun and right now we cannot. We don't want the server to be a PvP server we just want to RP our stories out in a realistic manner and not one that is forced on us.

Edited by mikebumbum
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Revelt Newbie

Revelt

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Posted

This rule really need to get some adjustment. This is our current rules for "player theft prison breakout and kidnapping"

Player Theft, Prison Breakout, and Kidnapping

  • Robberies are to be conducted in a realistic manner and require the robber to have a reasonable in character motive. High risk, but little reward robberies are deemed unrealistic and should not be performed. Robberies should be performed in secluded areas where there is a low chance to be seen by witnesses. Desert and forest areas could be considered secluded but potential witnesses should be taken into account.

This is a suggestion for "player theft prison breakout and kidnapping"

Player Theft, Prison Breakout, and Kidnapping

  • Committing crime / Robberies are to be conducted in a realistic manner and require the robber to have a reasonable in character motive during the day. High risk, but little reward robberies are deemed unrealistic and should not be performed. Robberies should be performed in secluded areas where there is a low chance to be seen by witnesses during the day, Any crimes during the night are allowed, robberies are allowed to be performed in every areas for every situation in the night time. Desert and forest areas could be considered secluded but potential witnesses should be taken into account during the day.
    Examples (but not limited to), when you're not allowed committing crime / robberies :
    -Committing crimes / Robberies in public area such as store, highway or any business building during the day are prohibited without a reason.

I believe having night-life time crime action or activity will bring up more immersion into the server rather than stricted by the rules that only need "in character motive"
People can feel safe during the day but in night time that's the only time criminal doing their action.

I know that server want to bring up more social rp interaction and stuff, as hardcore roleplayer since sa-mp, this rules really means nothing and increase a lot of OOC in the server than IC, its really hard to make RP scenario and daily RP as crime with this rule. 

We were robbing people outside the city, in the middle of the night at country road that possibly have low population RPly, the guy spamming /b save pov c-logging so bad and makes it hard to RP due to people bring up OOC rules into IC scenario it doesn't make any sense and purely aids.  

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Roderick Apprentice

Roderick

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Posted

+1/-1

Your topic title does not seem to align with your actual post so correct me if I'm wrong with what you mean somewhere. From my point of view, the robbery rule change was something that actually enabled civilian RP. Personally I've been on ECRP as a civilian RPer for over a year and a half and I cannot even begin to count the amount of times I've been robbed or had a gun pulled at me inside Los Santos Customs or when simply refueling my vehicle. Yes, I do realize the criminal side of roleplay in ECRP is under pressure right now. However, civilians fearing for their stuff if they would buy a pair of jeans or when filling their gas tank up, only to have a sports car drive up behind them and hear "hands hands hands": that is not what a roleplay server should be about.

Though judging by your topic start it seems you're more focused on robbing another gang member and the ruleplay that comes with it, rather than random civilians. Personally I feel that there should be a lower threshold for groups of people you have already had previous in-character relations with in comparison to someone buying a bottle of water in a store. In my opinion that goes in the line of realism.

Tl;dr: don't change the robbery rule back, adjust them to have a lower threshold for groups of people you already have had in-character relations with.

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