Change the robbery rules back/Adjust them

[JustTabed]

+1

[Kamiwar]

+1

 

[Dim]

+1 

[daddythanose]

+1

[Cyrus Raven]

+1 Assuming a provision is made to avoid the rampant robbery of randoms all over a major city, which I believe was the main reasons for the initial rule change if I am not mistaken. 

[Ahmed Abraham]

Hell yes, +1

[Skippy]

+1

[Victor Einhart]

What worries me about this suggestion is going back to the old ways of not being able to even gas up your car without risking all of your items being robbed, your car stolen, and your hair cut.  Those sorts of robberies are frustrating.  You shouldn't have to have an armed escort to put some gas in your car.  I think it's fine to adjust the rule to reduce the amount of OOC whining, but at the same time criminal roleplayers need to realize their own actions caused the rule to be introduced in the first place.

[moment]

8 minutes ago, Victor Einhart said:

What worries me about this suggestion is going back to the old ways of not being able to even gas up your car without risking all of your items being robbed, your car stolen, and your hair cut.  Those sorts of robberies are frustrating.  You shouldn't have to have an armed escort to put some gas in your car.  I think it's fine to adjust the rule to reduce the amount of OOC whining, but at the same time criminal roleplayers need to realize their own actions caused the rule to be introduced in the first place.

That's why places such as gas stations / markets / clothing stores should player theft rules only be applied.

 

In real life situations if someone has beef or specific reason to retaliate on someone on the streets, they have the option to pull up and face consequences on their actions as Carlos said. I had the ability to experience both if you are aware of your surroundings of the old rules, you rarely get robbed most of the time. Everything was IC mostly rather than OOC as nowadays it's taking more place that direction.

Edited October 29, 2020 by PhenomenalX

[mikebumbum]

10 minutes ago, Victor Einhart said:

What worries me about this suggestion is going back to the old ways of not being able to even gas up your car without risking all of your items being robbed, your car stolen, and your hair cut.  Those sorts of robberies are frustrating.  You shouldn't have to have an armed escort to put some gas in your car.  I think it's fine to adjust the rule to reduce the amount of OOC whining, but at the same time criminal roleplayers need to realize their own actions caused the rule to be introduced in the first place.

Again there definitely should be something to protect civs from ridiculous robberies but gang members and even police officers should not have some type of rule protecting them from getting robbed. It's also frustrating for us to get harassed all day by PD just for being '' known criminals'' but we deal with it icly do you not think the server should be balanced to let everyone enjoy their roleplay rather then being forced to follow guidelines that just make no sense icly? Why should we be forced to be frustrated (The majority of the servers playerbase) to stop getting people upset about being robbed on GTA? Not everyone's perfect there is bad apples in the crim aspect of the server just like there is on the legal side / PD side of the server. It isn't fair to the rest of us who have put thousands of hours into the server just like others who have been here for a long time to have RP opportunity completely ripped from the server based off a small minority of players.

Edited October 29, 2020 by mikebumbum

[Virus5310]

+1

[Dushane_Trell]

+1 

[Oli]

+1 | The rule in itself was made to provide the server with more civilian RP but in my honest opinion, encouraging a certain type of RP should NOT discourage another. My suggestion would be that if a criminal succeeds to identify an enemy (not only through clothes or voice) [same rules that apply to PD before applying charges] and he has good motive and ready to take the risks, he should not be worried about an OOC rule that might get him punished or banned. IC actions have IC consequences.

Tl;dr if a criminal successfully identifies an enemy of his, has good motive (with NLR in mind) and is willing to take the risk, so be it.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Oli
typo

[Tayven]

+1 

[Jawn]

+1

[Lamar Woodrow]

+1

[Gyromite]

-1
It's still possible to rob in public, you just have to RP it. I think alot of people fail to realize that we're supposed to be acting as if there are people around in these busy places. I remember how it used to be, and I was a part of it, hiding on top of roofs, back of clothing stores, etc, and I don't want to go back to that. I've executed people in clothing stores before, just for not shutting up. When I think back on that it strikes me as pretty bad roleplay. Sure, robbing is fun, and I'm not saying it should stop, but being able to run on foot around the city is a huge relief when I think about how it used to be. 

I wouldn't mind a day/night robbery type of system suggested earlier, where robbery rules were more lax at night, and it depended on the location. Clothing stores, gas stations, and other similar places should be off limits. However I can see issues arising with such a system, with people ruleplaying the time, how dark it actually is, and so forth. 

[bernardoH]

Big +1 here, 

Most, if not all criminals feel this way. I know so many people who have stopped playing this server because crim rp is getting to the point to where it’s not fun anymore and not rewarding enough if it’s gonna be this way. For me personally, instead of it feeling like a passion to play, it feels more like a job that I can’t stand. This isn’t a couple times a day occurrence. This is an extremely common occurrence that happens I’d say almost every robbery situation I partake in. It’s growing old and boring and something needs to be done before crims start leaving the server.

[Bala]

23 hours ago, Dylan Ortiz said:

The robbery rules need to be changed back or adjusted IMO. Since the rule was implemented it has been used as a severe ruleplay motive. I feel like if we want to rob someone IC the robbery should be kept IC, If we want to rob someone and risk going to jail for Armed robbery, Unlicensed firearm/Illegal, Brandishing a firearm, Face concealment, Receiving stolen property + more charges. It should be on us as it has IC consequences like several IRL hours in jail and big fines not OOC robbery rules.

I wasn't part of the staff team when the rule change was introduced but in my opinion, it was introduced as a last resort because criminals were unable to control themselves when and where they were robbed. You'd have miners, farmers, people at the butchers, people in clothing stores getting robbed and it gets stupid for those not in big groups where they are being forced out of the server.

Simple fact is, if we keep it IC, as a cop I'm telling you there is only so many cases we can investigate at one time. Between the gang war, the bank and store robberies, the new player pursuits, answering 911 calls, assisting MD with their calls, answering the impound, processing suspects and answering questions at the LSPD desk.. we cannot keep enough people safe.

In an ideal world, I agree with you, it would be nice to not have to resort to extensive measures to control robbery but they're in place for the server we have, not the server that maybe we want.

23 hours ago, Dylan Ortiz said:

Nearly everything PD does is deemed IC and i don't feel like criminals should be subject to these rules when there is so many IC consequences for criminals as it is. One robbery can lead to you spending 5+ hours in jail 50k+ in fines and losses/Impounding in a few seconds of fun. I feel like this rule is slowly killing the server and needs to be changed.

Can't really compare PD and Criminals though. We have different roles within the server. We're a reactive faction and we have a lot more rules and guidelines for what we do. Criminals have the freedom to do what they want, when they want to do it.

23 hours ago, Dylan Ortiz said:

Here is my tipping point. I had just logged in and heard there was a chase happening over a Triad trying to rob James from LFM. During the chase i see an irish and followed him to see if there was going lead me to an ambush. During me following him i did not once give call outs nor did i tell anyone i was even following him, He then says in OOC after 30 seconds of following him "Reason for the chase" instantly going into /b ruining immersion. I told him to cut /b and continued to follow him. After a while of no ambush i stopped following him without giving any calls on what i was doing, Nothing had come from me following him, he was not robbed or hurt in anyway and then i was pmed from him again saying "What is your reason for the chase?" "And if so, Do you have proof providing your reason? Alright bet, Save your POV" All of this for following someone without even doing anything. 

There is an unfortunate culture in the community where either people are looking to 'win' over their enemies by getting them into admin trouble OR deciding for themselves what they are willing to take part in and not letting situations play out. I don't know both sides of the situation you've referenced so I can't offer an opinion on that, but since I've started assisting in reports, I've noticed it more. the "Save POV" culture I like to call it. For me, that stuff is worse than ruleplay. Gang wars and conflicts being fought in the report section, rather than in-game.

23 hours ago, Dylan Ortiz said:

This rule is majorly impacted from ruleplay and is ruining the crim life, at least for me and i do not wish to partake in 21 questions everytime i log in and drive. This rule alone is making me not want to log into game anymore as there is already way to much IC consequences for criminals actions as it is.

I was in WCA for a couple weeks, way back and what struck me from being in the PD is that you cannot act in the moment as a criminal. You have to be very careful with what you do and when you do it because it can quite easily constitute a rule break and inevitably, that leads to people playing to not break a rule than to roleplay. It can be things as stupid as, driving a certain speed constantly because you know you can't be put under Fear RP because you're moving but not actually making a chance to get away.

- - - 

This thread is about robbery rules though. Personally, I think the staff team have done what they felt they needed to, but perhaps there is another solution?

In Eve Online, they have a Security Level for certain star systems. Basically the idea is that some areas are more secure than others.
We have in our server, the NCZs but elsewhere on the map, there are certain areas that are more dangerous than others.
I feel like while there would still be some restraints on this, there is more realism to the idea.

So my suggestion is that we designate each area as either a Red, Yellow or Green zone.

• Green zones would be zones where crimes that draw attention i.e. robberies, murders etc.. would not be permitted at all.
  These would be legal job locations/dropoffs, clothing stores, legal faction places of employment, LS City/Paleto Town Gas Stations, barber shops etc..
• Yellow Zones would be zones where crimes that draw attention i.e. robberies, murders etc.. wouldn't be allowed during the daylight hours (IG 8am-8pm)
  These would be most of the areas of the map. It makes a lot of roleplay sense for crime rates to spike at night and for police departments to be more alert when it's dark.
  It's also common sense, so it would be quite easy for the less experienced players to understand. Once it starts getting dark in a yellow zone, the idea being that if you're not a criminal you'll need to take more care when being in those areas.
• Red zones would be zones where there would be no limitations on crimes that draw attention aside from the other server rules.
  These would be areas that specialise in illegality such as the gang NPCs, drug labs, chop shops etc..
  If you are in these areas, you are there for an illegal reason anyway so it make sense.

I think there has to be certain exceptions, for players that shouldn't be robbed no matter what.

• New players.
• Players doing legal jobs such as Mining, Fishing at the Pier, Oil, Money Transport etc..
• Mechanics, MD, Taxi Drivers and Weazel News - they're performing either life saving or helpful functions for everyone and not taking any sides.
• Law Enforcement - I'm not saying this because I don't want to get robbed, I never have anything useful anyway but there is not really a reward big enough to make the risk worth it.

As how would people know what's what, pretty simple. At the bottom left of the screen near the map, a small coloured dot next to the area.
If you are engaged in an RP inside a red zone or a yellow zone after dark, you can still be robbed as the situation would be a continuation.

Something like that.

[Dylan Ortiz]

18 minutes ago, Bala said:

Simple fact is, if we keep it IC, as a cop I'm telling you there is only so many cases we can investigate at one time. Between the gang war, the bank and store robberies, the new player pursuits, answering 911 calls, assisting MD with their calls, answering the impound, processing suspects and answering questions at the LSPD desk.. we cannot keep enough people safe.

Not gonna get to far into this, but as a criminal i can tell you every shootout we have there is PD that arrive in seconds, There never seems to be situation that pd cant handle IMO, I also notice the Police Pursuits you guys have, You pull nearly all your resources to catch a warrener if its felony evading but that's not the subject here.

18 minutes ago, Bala said:

Can't really compare PD and Criminals though. We have different roles within the server. We're a reactive faction and we have a lot more rules and guidelines for what we do. Criminals have the freedom to do what they want, when they want to do it.

Quote

Well this isn't that true, we can't do what we want when we want as the OOC rules stop us from doing so, E.G I can be sitting at a store and a rival gang could be sitting there talking shit to me, as a gang member logicly i would rob/shoot him over it being a rival gang. But the OOC rules will not allow me to even rob him over it as its deemed not risk over reward. We also have our Lore we have to follow and sick to. again off topic 

 

On this note i do like you idea for the zones and it would support the current rule and implement it nicely, It would help the server for Most side's including Crim/PD, It's an overall very good suggestion.

Edited October 30, 2020 by Dylan Ortiz

[Kurdo251]

+1

[FrankieP]

+1 in regards to criminals robbing enemy criminals. The motive is quite clear when robbing an enemy, even if doing so for one .50, the scarcity of contraband in the server and the possibility of getting a frequency is reward enough, and certainly warrants the risk.

Our Los Santos is a police state now, where cops are simply allowed to do what they want (ICly and OOCly it seems) and charge as they please, therefore robbing someone out in the open has plenty of IC risks that don't need to be backed up with the fear of receiving a NonRP punishment for the a robbery.

Despite this, I don't think the rules should be rolled back entirely, because I do agree that they have brought some welcome changes. For instance, protecting civilian roleplayers against unwarranted and unrealistic robberies is a good thing, and no it doesn't make sense to perform a robbery in a clothing store with 10 rifle-carrying criminals. Regardless, criminal conflicts are now being fought on the forums. Is this the fault of the robbery rules or the fact that the players on ecrp seem to hate each other? I believe it's both. The rules were intended to encourage roleplay, but instead they encourage ruleplay, where every situation turns into a report, and everyone is out to get their fellow player banned. Additionally, the points raised by @Copperhorse in his thread should be addressed.

Edit: was referring to this post:

I agree with the points made by @Gyromite for the most part.

TL;DR

1). Roll back robbery rules, but not completely

2). Gang beef and intel gathering should be seen as enough justification for crim v crim robberies

3). Civs should be protected more than crims by robbery rules

4). Places like gas stations and clothing stores should still be protected by robbery rules

5). y'all toxic

I don't want the server to be a PvP server in any way, but so many criminals are losing interest or getting banned for petty things, it's becoming a joke now. It's not Eclipse without crim roleplayers, and if they all leave, what are we left with?

 

#FreeTheBoys

Edited October 30, 2020 by FrankieP

[HighTV]

-1 
 

With a good reason you can still rob people in public with RP like '/me discretely points his gun by hiding it under his shirt'

I don't think this rule was created to eliminate all public robbery and create a city wide NCZ. I think it was created to stop the "hands hands hands" culture from spilling into the public streets from the labs.

The server feels much more realistic when civilians can pump gas without having to have "/stoprefueling" copied and ready to paste to avoid robbery (even in the middle of the city).

Edited October 30, 2020 by HighTV

[CalvinKlein]

1 hour ago, HighTV said:

-1 

If your idea of robbing someone in public is blatantly aiming your gun so everyone can see, then I can see why this rule would impact you so much.
With a good reason you can still rob people in public with RP like '/me discretely points his gun by hiding it under his shirt'

This rule was not created to eliminate all public robbery and create a city wide NCZ. It was created to stop the "hands hands hands" culture from spilling into the public streets from the labs.

The server feels much more realistic when civilians can pump gas without having to have "/stoprefueling" copied and ready to paste to avoid robbery (even in the middle of the city).

Even with RP reasons, you still get reported and have to be in a position where you're just like "well let's hope the report isn't accepted", and in some cases it is, you still get lotssss or ruleplay happening because of this rule

[sakkama]

On 10/29/2020 at 2:33 AM, sakkama said:

+1