Law Enforcement Discussion

[isBrainDed]

I can give you my take on it, I personally don't give death RP even if the person who died can provide the most detailed and engaging medical RP. The only thing that matters to me is what lead to you being shot, if that RP was decent, then I would grant you death RP, if you just evaded and shot at cops, then its denied. ( This doesn't count when we roll up on scene where people are already injured, I will take their medical RP in consideration then as I wasn't the one involved in the situation that injured them )

[Tomvd682]

19 hours ago, BrainDed said:

I can give you my take on it, I personally don't give death RP even if the person who died can provide the most detailed and engaging medical RP. The only thing that matters to me is what lead to you being shot, if that RP was decent, then I would grant you death RP, if you just evaded and shot at cops, then its denied. ( This doesn't count when we roll up on scene where people are already injured, I will take their medical RP in consideration then as I wasn't the one involved in the situation that injured them )

Wouldn't it more reasonable and enjoyable for everyone to let someone deathRP when it rply makes sense they pass out?

Edited June 30, 2020 by Tomvd682

[Cyrus Raven]

5 hours ago, Tomvd682 said:

Wouldn't it more reasonable and enjoyable for everyone to let someone deathRP when it rply makes sense they pass out?

The thing is, everyone who always gets shot will ask for DeathRP, the focus should be on RP'ing the wounds for individual scenarios and even then we might not allow it, it really depends on dozens of factors. Sadly, most people ask for DeathRP to get out of prison times or other investigative RP, that's why people should always RP, avoiding /b and then once RP is underway for a few minutes you can ask in /pm, if you get denied it doesn't mean we didn't like your RP, but might be because of the overall situation leading to your injury or something else. 

[Machete]

There are so many ways to try and catch a criminal that doesn't involve shooting them, yet no action is ever taken to bring them in peacefully. Detctives could do so much to bring you in without any bloodshed yet this has never happened before.

The new UI makes you take out your gun accidentally and instead of listening in /b they went "IC issue" which was toxic and only proves there there to fuck you over. I'm honesty wondering why they have this grudge towards crims. They just dont care, If they can choose to fuck you over for something they will do it. 

Chief of police told everyone in faction chat some time ago that if you gave deathRP more then once a week you're giving it too often, which sucks in terms of realism. Now we need to pretend that the whole city is populated but people still magically survive headshots. A fix is needed

Realism should be promoted , not winning.

[Cyrus Raven]

22 minutes ago, NM369 said:

There are so many ways to try and catch a criminal that doesn't involve shooting them, yet no action is ever taken to bring them in peacefully. Detctives could do so much to bring you in without any bloodshed yet this has never happened before.

The new UI makes you take out your gun accidentally and instead of listening in /b they went "IC issue" which was toxic and only proves there there to fuck you over. I'm honesty wondering why they have this grudge towards crims. They just dont care, If they can choose to fuck you over for something they will do it. 

Chief of police told everyone in faction chat some time ago that if you gave deathRP more then once a week you're giving it too often, which sucks in terms of realism. Now we need to pretend that the whole city is populated but people still magically survive headshots. A fix is needed

Realism should be promoted , not winning.

This is a two way street. You ask for realism yet you complain about police response to a bank robbery, you want realism and you don't seem to reflect on the amount of criminals that own businesses or all the sports cars and supers they have. Would you be in favour of restricting vehicle selection to what makes sense realistically? 

 

Whether we use force or not is an IC issue, one we have protocols for called the force continuum, our detectives spend a massive amount of time investigating cases and an even bigger time filling a truck load of paperwork alongside that. This is real effort put in by people who don't get paid to play on the server. I'm afraid your time in PD was too short to realize the standards all members are held against. 

 

As for the death RP issue there is a reason why its something that shouldn't be expected. Because it creates discussions like this where people complain about not getting it. We've explained how you can increase your odds of getting it and why even then you might not get it, not sure what else you want. 

[Machete]

21 minutes ago, Kyle White Raven said:

This is a two way street. You ask for realism yet you complain about police response to a bank robbery, you want realism and you don't seem to reflect on the amount of criminals that own businesses or all the sports cars and supers they have. Would you be in favour of restricting vehicle selection to what makes sense realistically? 

 

Whether we use force or not is an IC issue, one we have protocols for called the force continuum, our detectives spend a massive amount of time investigating cases and an even bigger time filling a truck load of paperwork alongside that. This is real effort put in by people who don't get paid to play on the server. I'm afraid your time in PD was too short to realize the standards all members are held against. 

 

As for the death RP issue there is a reason why its something that shouldn't be expected. Because it creates discussions like this where people complain about not getting it. We've explained how you can increase your odds of getting it and why even then you might not get it, not sure what else you want. 

 

I've not complained about a response to a bank robbery? You literally can't rob a bank because the alarms get triggered for no reason.

I've  complained that every cop just thinks he can order you to do anything or hit you with failure to comply. Feels like were prisoners in a concentration camp sometimes, It has become so unrealistic. when shit gets unrealistic it's not an IC issue anymore.

 

Supers should have never been added in my opinion. I'm happy they perform like shit. I would have loved if the sever only added normal cars. and gas stations/ stores shouldn't make this crazy ammount of money.  It make sense for crims to have businesses as they need to wash dirty money clean IRL. 

 

I've played around 1200 Hours on my PD char, almost 75% on duty as PD and 20% as MD. "High RP standards"? Its all just the same cuff/search/drive to prison RP. only the low ranking members do as the higher ups resent doing that. The only RP that I enjoyed after a while was the detective RP which you'll get bored of pretty quickly too. Its always the same. RPing isnt only /me's or /do 's but its acting out a character. most people in PD/SD just RP as themselves being a cop. Thats why I love the criminal side, They RP a diffrent nationality with slang and accents. I've done more detailed medical RP on my crim then I've ever done on my MD character. 

 

Felony evading on the highway usually just turns out into a bumper car park, untill someone just orders to shoot out the tires because the LEO's are actually creating the danger to the public. and if someone starts chasing a BF400, you should see all the cruisers just fly on this, Funny it gets chased by a supersport hackuchou.

 

Back when I joined (zeta vs irish war had just ended) the server people used to be scared of the big gangs, they we're allowed to be. The new robbery rules changed all that. Now people are just scared of cops as they got bored and are just looking for action 24/7. They hit you with a reckless for anything now, We're being forced to felony evade over stupid bullshit. You don't see me driving anything else then a paragon R or drag these days because of the unrealistic actions of some LEO's. 

[Cyrus Raven]

27 minutes ago, NM369 said:

 

I've not complained about a response to a bank robbery? You literally can't rob a bank because the alarms get triggered for no reason.

I've  complained that every cop just thinks he can order you to do anything or hit you with failure to comply. Feels like were prisoners in a concentration camp sometimes, It has become so unrealistic. when shit gets unrealistic it's not an IC issue anymore.

 

Supers should have never been added in my opinion. I'm happy they perform like shit. I would have loved if the sever only added normal cars. and gas stations/ stores shouldn't make this crazy ammount of money.  It make sense for crims to have businesses as they need to wash dirty money clean IRL. 

 

I've played around 1200 Hours on my PD char, almost 75% on duty as PD and 20% as MD. "High RP standards"? Its all just the same cuff/search/drive to prison RP. only the low ranking members do as the higher ups resent doing that. The only RP that I enjoyed after a while was the detective RP which you'll get bored of pretty quickly too. Its always the same. RPing isnt only /me's or /do 's but its acting out a character. most people in PD/SD just RP as themselves being a cop. Thats why I love the criminal side, They RP a diffrent nationality with slang and accents. I've done more detailed medical RP on my crim then I've ever done on my MD character. 

 

Felony evading on the highway usually just turns out into a bumper car park, untill someone just orders to shoot out the tires because the LEO's are actually creating the danger to the public. and if someone starts chasing a BF400, you should see all the cruisers just fly on this, Funny it gets chased by a supersport hackuchou.

 

Back when I joined (zeta vs irish war had just ended) the server people used to be scared of the big gangs, they we're allowed to be. The new robbery rules changed all that. Now people are just scared of cops as they got bored and are just looking for action 24/7. They hit you with a reckless for anything now, We're being forced to felony evade over stupid bullshit. You don't see me driving anything else then a paragon R or drag these days because of the unrealistic actions of some LEO's. 

Most of what you are complaining about is IC and should be dealt IC'ly. 

 

If an officer gives you and order I'm willing to be that 99% of times it is for a valid reason, either because they are trying to set a perimeter or because a bunch of gang members think it is smart to hang around in gang vehicles close to a scene where their friends or allies are being arrested. We have brains, of course we're going to tell you to leave the area, why wouldn't we. 

 

This really would be a better conversation with examples. I have a feeling most of the "orders" your complaining about is stupid shit that no-one would get away with IRL like wearing a mask in public or having a gun hanging from your waist while having your mask on or being a known gang member. That's part of OUR RP. Noticing these people and getting to develop a portfolio of who is a trouble maker and who isn't or who is a knnown criminal and then using that to prevent further crimes. 

Same applies to the reckless thing, I personally let a ton of people off with warnings or light fines, but if you think you can speed directly past a cop at 200 in the city, especially knowing they are there than you best belief I'll slap you with a reckless and suspend your license, its all about HOW you approach situations. In other words, "play smarter". 

As for PD RP, it goes beyond /me and /do, how exactly do you expect indepth RP for cuffing someone, there is only so many ways you can RP it. What IS considered good RP is taking your time with certain situations, talking to civilians and suspects, adding small lines of RP for your actions when you have time (like using the MDC, issuing tickets, releasing vehicles from impound, taking statements, etc... And this isn't even getting into detective RP and developing cases, cultivating CIs and all the other work involved. 

 

At the end of the day both criminals and cops have people that are good and bad, both try and correct this behaviour I assume. With PD it is with IC and OOC IA reports and constant reminders to keep high standard of RP. Like anything, a few bad apples will always be the ones the faction is judged on, same aplies to law enforcement views on criminals and certain factions. Solution is to approach FM or command and talk to them about it, just like you guys can approach cops or OOC IA report about PD conduct. Just be aware some things will be inherently IC. 

 

 

[isBrainDed]

2 hours ago, NM369 said:

There are so many ways to try and catch a criminal that doesn't involve shooting them, yet no action is ever taken to bring them in peacefully. Detctives could do so much to bring you in without any bloodshed yet this has never happened before.

PD very rarely shoots first, if we are firing at someone its either because they ran over someone in the city while evading, they aimed a pistol at someone or they are firing towards us

 

2 hours ago, NM369 said:

The new UI makes you take out your gun accidentally and instead of listening in /b they went "IC issue" which was toxic and only proves there there to fuck you over. I'm honesty wondering why they have this grudge towards crims. They just dont care, If they can choose to fuck you over for something they will do it. 

This is not a bug or accident, if you select unarmed before exiting a vehicle, it won't equip the weapon. If you keep it on the pistol, when you step out it will pull out your pistol. Simple as that

[alexalex303]

2 hours ago, NM369 said:

There are so many ways to try and catch a criminal that doesn't involve shooting them, yet no action is ever taken to bring them in peacefully. Detctives could do so much to bring you in without any bloodshed yet this has never happened before.

The new UI makes you take out your gun accidentally and instead of listening in /b they went "IC issue" which was toxic and only proves there there to fuck you over. I'm honesty wondering why they have this grudge towards crims. They just dont care, If they can choose to fuck you over for something they will do it. 

Chief of police told everyone in faction chat some time ago that if you gave deathRP more then once a week you're giving it too often, which sucks in terms of realism. Now we need to pretend that the whole city is populated but people still magically survive headshots. A fix is needed

Realism should be promoted , not winning.

Then we should increase all weapon damage by x10, and then if you were shot 20 times, you may get death RP. In the context of the server, where you regen health mid fight and it takes as many as 10 bullets to wound you, asking for death RP because of 3+ gunshots is selective realism, as in, you only want realism when it benefits you.

[Ezrya]

3 hours ago, Kyle White Raven said:

The thing is, everyone who always gets shot will ask for DeathRP, the focus should be on RP'ing the wounds for individual scenarios and even then we might not allow it, it really depends on dozens of factors. Sadly, most people ask for DeathRP to get out of prison times or other investigative RP, that's why people should always RP, avoiding /b and then once RP is underway for a few minutes you can ask in /pm, if you get denied it doesn't mean we didn't like your RP, but might be because of the overall situation leading to your injury or something else. 

I dunno good RP should go both ways, how can you expect criminals to even provide good RP on a scene when all we get is auto hotkey RP and insta /b stop stalling whenever we go into detail about our injuries. The next problem with death RP is it doesn't matter about how good your RP is because all it takes is one cop who doesn't like you or your faction and it's denied. I don't really ask for death RP and at times have even turned it down when offered because it wouldn't fit the direction of RP but I'm at the point where I have personally given up in trying to provide any good RP for both sides on scenes because it's usually ruined by this whole play to win mentallity.

[Machete]

1 hour ago, BrainDed said:

PD very rarely shoots first, if we are firing at someone its either because they ran over someone in the city while evading, they aimed a pistol at someone or they are firing towards us

This is not a bug or accident, if you select unarmed before exiting a vehicle, it won't equip the weapon. If you keep it on the pistol, when you step out it will pull out your pistol. Simple as that

I know for a fact that this is false as I've seen it happen pretty often, both Crim/LEO side. I spawned in causing the char to draw the gun for no reason, yet officers continue as "IC issue" cause they're bored and just want to screw people over. 

2 hours ago, alexalex303 said:

Then we should increase all weapon damage by x10, and then if you were shot 20 times, you may get death RP. In the context of the server, where you regen health mid fight and it takes as many as 10 bullets to wound you, asking for death RP because of 3+ gunshots is selective realism, as in, you only want realism when it benefits you.

During the counsel vs wca and dojin war, It was way too easy to capture people that should have died in a shootout leading up to a quick end fordojin/wca. DeathRP should be granted if the wounds are that severe to be injured, that simple. Same rule should apply to LEOs

[Cyrus Raven]

2 hours ago, Ezrya said:

I dunno good RP should go both ways, how can you expect criminals to even provide good RP on a scene when all we get is auto hotkey RP and insta /b stop stalling whenever we go into detail about our injuries. The next problem with death RP is it doesn't matter about how good your RP is because all it takes is one cop who doesn't like you or your faction and it's denied. I don't really ask for death RP and at times have even turned it down when offered because it wouldn't fit the direction of RP but I'm at the point where I have personally given up in trying to provide any good RP for both sides on scenes because it's usually ruined by this whole play to win mentallity.

Anyone who goes into /b complaining about your RP you can tell them to fuck off. If you are genuinely RPing wounds then that is fine, but don't delay RP as a way to scritply die and avoid going to jail (not talking about you specifically, just in general). Otherwise any RP you do should be fine. If anyone has any complaints tell them to cuff OOC and /report or go to the forums, just like we usually tell you to do. Only staff can pause RP. 

 

Also a sidenote, sometimes players try and extend RP in a way that prevents officers from using /cpr. Stuff like /do the bleeding would not stop until you do X,Y and Z. RP is a two way street. You may not want to RP that the officers treatment completely fixed you, but if your focus is on the RP then you should be giving in a bit so /cpr can be used and then continue RPing your injuries and other side affects. 

Edited June 30, 2020 by Kyle White Raven

[Riderz]

2 hours ago, Ezrya said:

I dunno good RP should go both ways, how can you expect criminals to even provide good RP on a scene when all we get is auto hotkey RP and insta /b stop stalling whenever we go into detail about our injuries. The next problem with death RP is it doesn't matter about how good your RP is because all it takes is one cop who doesn't like you or your faction and it's denied. I don't really ask for death RP and at times have even turned it down when offered because it wouldn't fit the direction of RP but I'm at the point where I have personally given up in trying to provide any good RP for both sides on scenes because it's usually ruined by this whole play to win mentallity.

Good or bad roleplay; the aim should never be to get death RP. The grandest rewards above all is to receive someone's time and roleplay for the development of both your character and development of all those around you. True win mentality is "death RP is it doesn't matter about how good your RP is because all it takes is one cop who doesn't like you." Every /me and every /do is a wonderful gift and should be the main thrive for always performing good roleplay. DeathRP is mostly granted in my opinion when the situation dictates it. Unfortunately, the matter should stretch beyond just PD if you seek change; which includes when there is a shooting at a drug lab and get shot by 10 rounds of .50. In this case despite a friend might have CPR and a boot, you should just perish respectfully and die at scene. Unfortunately though this realism factor typically on stretches as far as those seek to stretch it can stretch it.

 

[Curtins]

On 6/28/2020 at 5:35 PM, Bala said:

Someone ordered a fax?

• If you're a better criminal, you are harder to catch.
• If you are harder to catch, you will be caught less.
• If you are caught less, you won't spend as long in prison and get as many charges.
• If you don't get as many charges and do not spend as much time in prison, you will have more money and more freedom to do other things.

But instead what will they do?

• Shoot at cops when they're arresting one of your friends, even a minor charge.
• Wear the same clothing and display the same colours openly to show that you are at the very least some kind of organisation.
• Drive in excess of the speed limit on purpose, even in the presence of the cops.
• Continue to shoot at cops but then also, file internal affairs because you got slapped with a charge you don't agree with.
• Drive around in large convoys of vehicles.
• Have recruitment policies that are one step below placing a Weazel advert in game.
• Openly display your weapons in public for all to see.

There is a reason why server staff had to add robbery rules. There is a reason why faction management had to step in and create more structure for the gang wars. Neither of those were on the Police Department. Some of you get criminal role-play so twisted in my view. The aim is to try and do your criminal shit but avoid the attention of the police, not wear a sign around your neck advertising you are a criminal.

No point using the real life argument either. Law Enforcement should be OP, otherwise there would be even more anarchy on the streets. If they can get Pablo Escobar on a rooftop, they can get you.

Rather than another "Nerf PD" thread which is just a slight variation on the last one, maybe try looking at the overall quality of criminal factions and the criminal role-play scene in general. 

Yes, cops are over-powered but it has to be that way, because people on the other side don't seem to be able to limit themselves voluntarily.

this guy basically just said "get gud"

[Itzsonzy]

1 hour ago, Tezhl said:

Good or bad roleplay; the aim should never be to get death RP. The grandest rewards above all is to receive someone's time and roleplay for the development of both your character and development of all those around you. True win mentality is "death RP is it doesn't matter about how good your RP is because all it takes is one cop who doesn't like you." Every /me and every /do is a wonderful gift and should be the main thrive for always performing good roleplay. DeathRP is mostly granted in my opinion when the situation dictates it. Unfortunately, the matter should stretch beyond just PD if you seek change; which includes when there is a shooting at a drug lab and get shot by 10 rounds of .50. In this case despite a friend might have CPR and a boot, you should just perish respectfully and die at scene. Unfortunately though this realism factor typically on stretches as far as those seek to stretch it can stretch it.

 

Yes, because i love seeing the words that mean i have to spent the next 6 hours of my day in prison, they motivate me to always roleplay to the highest standard physically possible and definately not give up on quality MD RP when someone is trying to put gauze pads on a collapsed lung and it's not working. Mind blowing.

[MrSilky]

If you want to RP death so badly when you get shot, you should follow through with that death to support your realism and lock all assets earned to that character and never use it again.

 

Oh yeah I forgot, selective realism is the best way to be realistic.

[LeftSharkie]

lol this discussion

[Curtins]

2 minutes ago, MrSilky said:

If you want to RP death so badly when you get shot, you should follow through with that death to support your realism and lock all assets earned to that character and never use it again.

 

Oh yeah I forgot, selective realism is the best way to be realistic.

very bad take imo

[Cyrus Raven]

2 hours ago, Itzsonzy said:

Yes, because i love seeing the words that mean i have to spent the next 6 hours of my day in prison, they motivate me to always roleplay to the highest standard physically possible and definately not give up on quality MD RP when someone is trying to put gauze pads on a collapsed lung and it's not working. Mind blowing.

Wait what? 

 

Why didn't you just say this from the beginning and save us all some time. Then I could have just dismissed your entire argument that much more easly. 

 

So it really isn't about "better RP" or "Doing what is realistic", you just wanna ask for it to avoid consequences for your IC actions and go straight back to gang banging... 

Edited June 30, 2020 by Kyle White Raven

[Ezrya]

1 hour ago, MrSilky said:

If you want to RP death so badly when you get shot, you should follow through with that death to support your realism and lock all assets earned to that character and never use it again.

 

Oh yeah I forgot, selective realism is the best way to be realistic.

I mean you talk about selective realism but PD had a fit when they lost the ability to use player ID's to MDC search because it's almost as if people don't have floating numbers above their heads IRL. If we wanna talk about realism then PD shouldn't be able to just spam /pw and get guns, armour, ammo out of nowhere like they are driving a military armoury on wheels when realistically they would have to go back and restock after use and the ammo available would be limited, If we want to talk about realism then gangs shouldn't have to fight over 20 ak ammo in the laptop when realistically a mexican cartel/chinese crime syndicate would be able to supply itself and most definetly wouldn't recieve supply from the same source.

Your most definetly right in the sense that people complain about the realism of the other side without thinking of ways their own factions can improve RP but my issue is lately gangs have been blasted with rules ranging from server rules to war rules and just general complaints from FM in ways to improve their RP yet I never see any of this coming from law enforcement factions in ways they can improve because I can tell you know there's definetly things PD and SD can improve on. But hey criminal faction bad right.

[MrSilky]

I, and many others in PD, were actually relieved when the ID search got removed because it allows us to more confidently place charges without bullshit IA reports "hOw DiD hE kNoW wHo I wAs, I hAd a MaSk". ID removal was a good thing.

I agree to the /pw thing too. It is enforced in PD that you must RP what you have in your car beforehand and if you just /pw and grab something that's not RPly there then that is no bueno and should be reported. Most officers do RP placing extra clips/vests/weapons in the vehicle and it is enforced to do so therefore if you notice anyone not RPing contents, please let me know as I am sure some don't.

As for your final point, just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Legal (gov) factions are even more heavily scrutinised than illegal. We constantly have internal meetings/discussions/suggestions/implementations that go on all the time. I am not ignorant to the pressures put on illegals to change therefore it would be appreciated to not be ignorant to legals as I can see both sides, legals are much more heavily monitored and scrutinised.

[Msato]

4 minutes ago, MrSilky said:

Legal (gov) factions are even more heavily scrutinised than illegal.

[Machete]

A random person showing up to a shootout shouldn't have the right to deny your deathRP, It's just extremely arrogant to judge others RP just because you think you might think you have "higher RP standards". During wars deathRP never got granted and you saw the outcome, Lots of higher ups got killed off rather quickly and some refused to even get in game because of this. Why should it be diffrent for LEOs? DeathRP requires a rework. 

I personally barely interact with any LEO's or ever require deathRP but it's not fair to others. 

 

 

[nikoh]

8 minutes ago, MrSilky said:

As for your final point, just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Legal (gov) factions are even more heavily scrutinised than illegal.

I smell cap  

[Ezrya]

28 minutes ago, MrSilky said:

I agree to the /pw thing too. It is enforced in PD that you must RP what you have in your car beforehand and if you just /pw and grab something that's not RPly there then that is no bueno and should be reported. Most officers do RP placing extra clips/vests/weapons in the vehicle and it is enforced to do so therefore if you notice anyone not RPing contents, please let me know as I am sure some don't.

The problem with this is it would require me literally asking every officer I see using /pw to get ammo or armour if they have RP proof of placing extra ammo into their cruisers and would require officers constantly screenshotting putting extra ammo into their cruisers. Wouldn't it be better to just scriptly limit the amount of times an officer can use /pw from a cruiser and once their limited amount of uses run out they have to go back to one of the stations across the map to refill.

 

31 minutes ago, MrSilky said:

As for your final point, just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Legal (gov) factions are even more heavily scrutinised than illegal. We constantly have internal meetings/discussions/suggestions/implementations that go on all the time. I am not ignorant to the pressures put on illegals to change therefore it would be appreciated to not be ignorant to legals as I can see both sides, legals are much more heavily monitored and scrutinised.

Your most definetly right here I can admit I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to the OOC rules law enforcement factions have to follow as I'm not in any law enforcement factions, a suggestion for this would be for law enforcement factions to have more clarity and maybe announce any rule changes made to their OOC policies given PD is probably one of the biggest and most infuential factions on the server because personally I just don't see this heavily monitored PD when I see half the stuff they do. Just like I said in my comment there is a lot PD and SD can improve and good suggestions that come from these threads that could possibly be implemented rather than law enforcement players just coming in here like "jUsT pLaY sMaRtEr". The responses that have come from PD players on this thread are the reason why there's so much OOC tension between criminal and law enforcement factions. I know that at least from the criminal factions I have been in, a lot of suggestions that come from FM and PD are actually impemented ranging from needing permission from higherups to engage in shootouts with PD/SD to limit the amount of shootouts that happen to limiting the amount of people chasing cars through a city and that's just a few examples.