Law Enforcement Discussion

[HobGoblin]

1 minute ago, mikebumbum said:

i am a criminal .... im not supposed to have good interactions with PD i expect good RP though which is never given to any crim from any PD

You say PD never gives you good RP. I can tell you know that PD does give good RP to crims. This also works both ways. 

[mikebumbum]

1 minute ago, vuki said:

Right, my crim character only has 25 days played on him

In Triads

i mean idk then if youve only been to jail once because i know the majority of the triads feel the same way they dont even do banks anymore because its literally pointless and theres no rp involved lol why should crims get a new activity and not even be able to/ want to do it because the risk isnt worth the reward we get 1 new thing in months and we cant even do it makes 0 sense

[Victor Einhart]

There should not be a reward for killing police officers.  This creates a low key incentive to do so.  There's already too much of a "kill and loot" mentality, it doesn't need to be even worse.  I get that you don't like that police "lose nothing" while criminals put a lot of things on the line, but honestly that risk should be there: it cuts down on the number of shootouts because it makes people think twice.  Frankly, I've had play sessions where I'm suited up in SWAT gear for 5+ hours because it's shootout after gun battle after shooting, bank robberies, and other violence.  There's way too much combat already and anything that cuts down on it even a little bit is good in my opinion.  There should be zero gain to be had from fighting police.

I'd like to do other kinds of RP but I find myself constantly sucked into these fights, and it's getting old.

Edited June 28, 2020 by Victor Einhart

[Itzsonzy]

35 minutes ago, HobGoblin said:

You say PD never gives you good RP. I can tell you know that PD does give good RP to crims. This also works both ways. 

I have sat on both sides with you at one point, this is simply not true.

 

8 minutes ago, Victor Einhart said:

There should not be a reward for killing police officers.  This creates a low key incentive to do so.  There's already too much of a "kill and loot" mentality, it doesn't need to be even worse.  I get that you don't like that police "lose nothing" while criminals put a lot of things on the line, but honestly that risk should be there: it cuts down on the number of shootouts.  Frankly, I've had play sessions where I'm suited up in SWAT gear for 5+ hours because it's shootout after gun battle after shooting, bank robberies, and other violence.  There's way too much combat already and anything that cuts down on it even a little bit is good in my opinion.  There should be zero gain to be had from fighting police.

I'd like to do other kinds of RP but I find myself constantly sucked into these fights, and it's getting old.

"kill and loot" > proceeds to kill and get nothing while risking hours of time 

Want less combat? Dope, i agree. I don't like it being a TDM server, but i also dispise the fact that i'm supposed to put hours of my time into something, and then more hours of my time in prison with you having nothing on the line. My very simple point is not really to give more reward or reason for shootouts, just for criminals to have even slightly a level playing field. At the end of the day it'll always be cops vs crims, and sure, cops are meant to be strong... but 2 kamachos, 4 man with double my health and unlimited weaponary and ammo? Not to mention times that by 4 with backup? I can see why its becoming a TDM server in your eyes.

EDIT: side note if you actually want good RP and not TDM join EMS, legitimately the best faction and RP standards on the server.

Edited June 28, 2020 by Itzsonzy

[HobGoblin]

@Itzsonzy  We both know PD does offer good RP. Countless times we do RP with criminals were we are putting a lot into the RP to get “/do s” every time or getting them going into /b complaining about charges.  Don’t get me wrong this is only a small amount of crims but I know most of PD offer good RP. Maybe a small amount don’t give the best RP which I agree with but to say it’s PD in general is going to far. 

[Dara MacFadden]

I don't understand the whole "You guys aren't smart enough to rob a bank blah blah blah" I mean PD was literally across from the bank armed with helicopters and snipers on the roof waiting for us to go out. Like it was said, there's ONE exit. You're either getting slammed by a police car on foot or 1 shot sniped from across the city haha, I don't know what more you expect from any gangs in the city, there's nothing more we can do, and trust me we've tried everything in the book. You act like we have some sick artificial intelligence in place to outsmart the PD or something. We, on both sides know how impossible these bank heists are, and there's been a decline in them from all gangs for a reason. It's not that it's boring, it's simply a waste of time getting MOWED down the second you leave the bank.

[HobGoblin]

Just now, Dara orkonson said:

I don't understand the whole "You guys aren't smart enough to rob a bank blah blah blah" I mean PD was literally across from the bank armed with helicopters and snipers on the roof waiting for us to go out. Like it was said, there's ONE exit. You're either getting slammed by a police car on foot or 1 shot sniped from across the city haha, I don't know what more you expect from any gangs in the city, there's nothing more we can do, and trust me we've tried everything in the book. You act like we have some sick artificial intelligence in place to outsmart the PD or something. We, on both sides know how impossible these bank heists are, and there's been a decline in them from all gangs for a reason. It's not that it's boring, it's simply a waste of time getting MOWED down the second you leave the bank.

You have to remember PD has protocols, which basically stops us from even taking the first shot in most situations. If you want to be robbing a bank then exit pointing a shotgun at multiple Officers then what do you expect. 

[Dara MacFadden]

Well what do you expect? Us to walk outside the bank and strip naked and hand ourselves in? I know that's what you'd love to happen because then you'd win like you always magically do but I dunno man, if people robbing a bank IRL walked out with no guns pointed or raised I'd be awfully impressed, must be some very very confident criminals in a 12 vs 30.

 

Also if cops still have the ability to check bank timers, they should be removed. You could sit in a bush for an hour waiting for a bank to be ready and you'll magically see cops run in and out and come back Just in time for the bank robbery! Who would've thought?

[HobGoblin]

1 minute ago, Dara orkonson said:

 

Also if cops still have the ability to check bank timers, they should be removed. You could sit in a bush for an hour waiting for a bank to be ready and you'll magically see cops run in and out and come back Just in time for the bank robbery! Who would've thought?

If your saying you sit in a bush waiting for the bank to be able to be robbed this sounds like script abuse. I can assure you we don’t magically know when they can be robbed. Also PD don’t camp the bank when they can be robbed. 

[Dara MacFadden]

PD is one to talk about script abuse haha, you're insane if you don't think they camp the banks it's funny you've even mentioned it but sure whatever floats your boat. I'm sure MANY gang members can also hear to this.

Also it was clearly an exaggeration, you've also completely disregarded my first point in my last reply..

In my opinion, PD should stay out of banks completely until they got a call about something suspicious or the alarm has been triggered. Otherwise I can only assume you're in there checking the timer on the door. Which has happened dozens of times

[HobGoblin]

3 minutes ago, Dara orkonson said:

PD is one to talk about script abuse haha, you're insane if you don't think they camp the banks it's funny you've even mentioned it but sure whatever floats your boat. I'm sure MANY gang members can also hear to this.

Also it was clearly an exaggeration, you've also completely disregarded my first point in my last reply..

In my opinion, PD should stay out of banks completely until they got a call about something suspicious or the alarm has been triggered. Otherwise I can only assume you're in there checking the timer on the door. Which has happened dozens of times

I have never seen anyone from PD “check the timer on the door”. Every time we find out about a bank robbery is because the alarm has gone off. Unless you have a video of this I find it very hard to believe. 

[HobGoblin]

Also from the point that you made and I didn’t make a comment on. You said about people robbing banks IRL.  Can you tell me the last time you saw a bank heist IRL?  I can assure you that it’s very very rare. 

[XavierLR]

+1
I feel something should definitely be put into place, however I already know nothing will be.. It's just going to end like every other discussion on the same topic where It's just PD/SD vs Crims arguing with one another.. The only thing I disagree with would have to be the looting of guns as It was stated in previous comments it would just be an absolute shit show.

 

Also PD/SD say we have all the vehicles that can easily outrun their crown vics yet they still use their personal vehicles being V12s, Paragon R's, and even Novaks filled with swat w/ Micros, Carbines, and even heavy snipers when they already have Super cars to their disposal..

 

[Dara MacFadden]

I'm sure someone has footage of these kind of things happening, if I get it I'll send it here. You and I both know it happens though.

Just because I haven't seen one or because it happens "rarely" doesn't degrade my original point. None of the things you just pointed out to me matter.

edit: If you wanna look at it like that, It's also rare for police to run in and ask tellers when the next time a bank can be robbed

Edited June 28, 2020 by Dara orkonson
More words

[HobGoblin]

@Dara orkonson  If you see someone doing that to see when the bank is able to be robbed report it. Iv honestly not seen any PD do it and don’t agree with anyone doing it. 

[Copperhorse]

14 minutes ago, HobGoblin said:

I have never seen anyone from PD “check the timer on the door”. Every time we find out about a bank robbery is because the alarm has gone off. Unless you have a video of this I find it very hard to believe. 

Ight bruh here you go:

 

[Dara MacFadden]

Ah see, wild. 

[HobGoblin]

4 minutes ago, Dara orkonson said:

Ah see, wild. 

You can’t really complain when in the video you hear the gang go “4:30 Eastern is when Taco is ready”. They did the same thing.

Edited June 28, 2020 by HobGoblin

[HobGoblin]

It’s not right for Gangs or PD to do it. 

[Copperhorse]

2 minutes ago, HobGoblin said:

You can’t really complain when in the video you hear the gang go “4:30 Eastern is when Taco is ready”. They did the same thing.

At this point you should just stop replying to this thread. It's clear you don't know what you're talking about. You said you don't believe police do this and without video you wouldn't say it's the case. I show you that it is the case and you try to change the subject. It's necessary for criminals to know when it's ready to be robbed, as they need to plan and group people together beforehand. It's not necessary for PD to know the time. As stated by other police people on this thread, PD is a reactionary faction. They react to the bell, they shouldn't be camping it based on a timer.

Edited June 28, 2020 by Copperhorse

[HobGoblin]

Yeah I said I don’t think PD has done it which this video proves they did. Which they shouldn’t have but also the gang shouldn’t be doing it. 

[Dara MacFadden]

So now you’re saying gangs shouldn’t do it? Alright sweet noted. I’ll wait for the alarm in the bank to go off and get called to the scene and do it then. 

 

My point is you shouldn’t be checking those timers at all. You should ONLY be in those banks for the reasons I provided earlier. They seem completely fair to me. If you can’t understand that, that’s on you. 

[HobGoblin]

3 minutes ago, Dara orkonson said:

So now you’re saying gangs shouldn’t do it? Alright sweet noted. I’ll wait for the alarm in the bank to go off and get called to the scene and do it then. 

 

My point is you shouldn’t be checking those timers at all. You should ONLY be in those banks for the reasons I provided earlier. They seem completely fair to me. If you can’t understand that, that’s on you. 

I don’t think anyone should be checking the timers. 

[Dara MacFadden]

1 minute ago, HobGoblin said:

I don’t think anyone should be checking the timers. 

But you will know when a bank is getting robbed from a triggered alarm. How are we THE CRIMS going to know then hello?

[Dashingly]

1 hour ago, Copperhorse said:

Ight bruh here you go:

not that it's any excuse but that video was from June 10th, less than 4 days after bank robberies came out. during that time banks were being hit every minute they came off cooldown on a constant rotation (i mean even in the video, you can hear that the next store will be up at 4:30 EST, meaning I'm sure you guys were planning on hitting that as soon as it was up). I know that in my experience that we were told to patrol more heavily around banks at that time. that officer may not have necessarily camping it, but rather checking inside that the clerks were not on the floor or whatever. I speak from personal experience and say I don't camp banks, or stores, mainly just enforce mask laws .

 

As for the suggestions go, I disagree with the suggestions about the items being lootable off of a cop. You'll have some (not all, not all, not all) criminals targetting single man PD units every opportunity they get to score free pistols, tasers, armor, + whatever else that PD person has on them.

 

- More clear rules or clarifications for LEOs. ( As a crim, i can't ram a Ingot (4 door saloon) in a contender, but a cruiser can boot me off the road while im in a Kamacho? o.O ) 

I always think that there should be clarification for rules. There should be clear examples, and plain text about what should and what shouldn't be allowed. There should never be any grey areas in a situation where someone could potentially be banned if they swerved left instead of right in a situation where the rules are too vague. However, PD has some of the clearest cut rules on the server, they have the strictest enforcement, can be punished ICly for OOC behavior (for instance, a player in PD can be booted if they get a punishment on their alt or something). So while I agree with you, I think you also miss the mark a little bit, it's not a PD issue I don't think. Unless you want to clarify a little bit more/

 

- A limit to the amount of members a legal faction can have. Numbers difference right now is a bit much.

I agree that the limit should be bumped up for official factions, only because this is more realistic to real life. IRL there are a few gangs that dominate certain areas, and then there are smaller gangs that run in those same areas at the same time. I don't see why there should be an ooc limit on joining a gang at all, it should be completely IC imo. Why in the world is there any OOC influence to the size of IC gangs? If there are 3 main gangs that dominate the city, why not let people join those gangs if they wanted too?

- Lower prison times, on no planet is it fun to be a full time criminal and spend 6+ hrs in prison at 1 given time.

I'm probably in the minority of PD here but I agree with this. I understand that criminals choose the RP they do, and know the consequences for their actions could mean that they face x amount of hours in prison + x amount of money fined from them, but it's ridiculous. Prison RP is almost non existent in my experience aside from being brought in. The fact that you could log in with the intention of RPing all day, only to get caught doing a store robbery or something, and then have the rest of your day to sit in an AFK box isn't right. Some players can only play a small amount of time each day/week/month, and even though they chose that RP they shouldn't be punished so harshly for it. I'd be all for reducing prison sentences across the board by a ridiculous amount, like 50% or something. If prison RP changed and you could actually work toward leaving early by mining or whatever, at a reasonable pace then I'd say fine keep the prison times as they are. Prisoners should be rewarded for actively RPing while in prison, by being able to be released earlier (like 50% earlier, if they're mining, or sweeping or whatever there is to do in prison these days).

 

I'd love to discuss more, and am totally willing to change my POV's on any of those points if anyone would like to discuss.

Edited June 28, 2020 by Dashingly