Law Enforcement Discussion

[Tomvd682]

The problem isn't 1 sided

[vuki]

I really don't understand this Faction budget management, lets say PD weapons/vehicles do cost us X money, depending on the balancing numbers we would either still have infinite numbers of weapons and vehicles or we would go on duty with cuffs on BMX's and maybe stun guns for chief+ because we couldn't afford anything.

As for the lootable cops this would only lead to more deathmatch for no reason, I do however think criminals should have an easier time obtaining bullets/weapons as I've played both sides and every bullet I shot felt like a dent in my bank account. These bullet costs would be no issue if desync wasn't such a huge factor in the server, but as it is right now, you can either kill someone in 2 bullets or in some cases 30.

On the vehicles side, I do believe our cars are overtuned, I rarely struggle to keep up with a criminal and no regular cadet would drive a interceptor that can keep up with a $400,000 fully modded sports car but it is that way because every single criminal has a  $400,000 fully modded sports car and or a bike which is literally unchaseable 

From a Police officers POV, playing at night is literally impossible, theres 5 of us online, any larger gang can just chain rob stores/banks and laugh at us trying to stop them, we instead can just do the shameful radio call "All units leave now, we are massively outnumbered" This really has no solution, it just makes no sense for a Cops RP to let crime happen in front of them.

As for the Prison side of things, in the 3 months I've played crim I only got myself into prison once. Why? because I wasn't being careful, It is VERY easy to avoid police and not get caught, but I do see the issue with jail time, no one wants to sit in jail for 6 hours and I'd like to see the cap back because I don't want to make someone sit in jail for that long, its just not fun.

Just my 2 cents on the topic

[Chrisy]

Hey, I've played criminal since August 2018 with over 140 days play time. I've played PD since Jan 2020 with around 25 days played. I want to give my opinion on your points.
 

• Lootable weapons - Horrible idea to say the least. People shoot cops over such little things already never mind having the ability to loot guns. 
•  Only a certain amount of weapons can be taken from lockers, and the budget actually has to be managed to accommodate the amount of weaponry. - I agree this should be implemented although this will take a lot of time and effort to do so to ensure its correct.
• More clear rules or clarifications for LEOs. ( As a crim, i can't ram a Ingot (4 door saloon) in a contender, but a cruiser can boot me off the road while im in a Kamacho? o.O )  - As for this you can ram a ingot with a contender so idk where you're getting this from. You also CAN'T ram a kamacho with a cruiser it makes no roleplay sense and if you see it you should IA/Forum report it. Rules and clarifications are the same as everyone has on the sever so if you think things need clarified then make a suggestion. Majority of things are clear enough.
• A limit to the amount of members a legal faction can have. Numbers difference right now is a bit much. - I agree with the limit. We have a lot of LEOs currently on both sides although all time-zones are not covered still with this amount. I think the issue is more of that we are capped to 40 members currently as criminals and not how much LEOs there are.
• Lower prison times, on no planet is it fun to be a full time criminal and spend 6+ hrs in prison at 1 given time. - A lot of people are probably going to disagree with this next statement but I feel that the jail times are somewhat ok. With them being this large it prevents me from wanting to do stupid shit especially against cops. I pick certain situations to do stuff and know how long to stay and when to leave. I feel a few charges could be adjusted but it just makes you regret doing stupid shit in the long run.

 

There are nerfs needed I agree and the speed cap is a large issue also, a crown vic is the best performing car on the server and it ultimately should be. I'm not here to sit and make suggestions myself cause I'm not to bothered currently but just touching up on the points you've provided.

Edited June 28, 2020 by Chrisy

[Clank]

20 minutes ago, FrankieP said:

This is besides the point, if criminals don't act smartly, they get caught, no ones arguing against that. The problem is that we can plan our operations as smoothly as possible, with intricate planning, but more often than not, it will be ruined by cops that will disregard our rp (i.e shooting unarmed hostages, refusing rp'd fake ID's, catching a scammer through ID despite them changing name and having plastic surgery), they will act as if they're above the rules (constant VDM from cops), and will run head first into fights without second guessing (all because their is no setback to their faction if they lose their weapons). As for the new robbery rules, I agree with them completely.

Lets both be honest here, as someone that experiences both sides, and as someone that is really close friends OOCly with people that are dedicated crims on the server. Intricate planning does NOT happen. Lets take YOUR gang Dojin-Kai for example. You guys hit banks all the time, whenever possible. Always the same thing. If its pink cage bank? You stack people on roofs, get people inside and then pray to god that cops drop fast enough. Every single time I have been to a bank robbery on my PD character the past week or so, its been with Dojin-Kai alone or with Dokin-Kai being backed up by MurdaBlock. You guys literally MAKE IT TOO EASY to stop the bank. All it turns out to be is a shootout where PD will win due to numbers AND ACTUAL tactics. NOBODY is above the rules, Whenever I have interacted with Dojin en-masse, they follow the pursuit line in an attempt to help their friends, which end up making the police have to act more aggressive by pitting and ramming the suspect vehicle. There was also an instance where Dojin tried to do the classic Zeta technique of blocking the sewer entrance with a contender instead of a bigger car which ended with our kamacho being able to ram through the contender and get both the blocker and the evader. You guys literally set yourselves up for failure when it comes to evading the police and then question WHY you cannot win. Theres been plenty of times where cops have been absolutely massacred by gangs due to ACTUAL tactics being used by them.

30 minutes ago, FrankieP said:

No one's saying that the individual cops should be hit by the loss of weapons and cruisers, we're saying that it should be the faction that suffers via a hit to their budget

Factions already suffer a hit to their budget, Cruisers being destroyed, stolen etc. That isnt free. Even taking the GPS out of your faction vehicle will hit the vault budget. 

 

24 minutes ago, FrankieP said:

Yes it's easy to not catch a case because cops are constantly getting away with blatant VDM, nonrp and fearrp. As for ramming, this is pure waffle I'm afraid, a shitty Queen Vic cruiser could NEVER ram a vehicle like a Rebla, Kamacho or Contender. The ram bars are on the front, but more often than not, the PITs come from the side of the cruiser, or the front corners of the cruiser where the headlights are. A cruiser that fails a PIT should be knocked out of a pursuit indefinitely.

I can assure you as a member of staff that NOBODY is above the rules. So your point there is invalid in general. Also before you make uneducated assumptions about the ramming capabilities of a "shitty queen vic cruiser". Police issue crown victorias have been used to take down vehicles almost twice their size. They're made to get beat up, TWIN TURBOCHARGED V8 under the hood as well as massive durability. Even newer police vehicles such as the Taurus and Charge (police3 and police2) have insane engines and insane damage resistance. A stock crown victoria weights almost as much as a stock ford f150 pickup truck. 

 

 

40 minutes ago, FrankieP said:

No, there are barely any vehicles that can lose cops. I only ever see cops be outrun because of their own incompetence or the maneuvering skills of the criminal; the vehicle in question rarely has an effect.

The taurus interceptor (police3) caps at 190 and will hit 220 if you're lucky on bumps. Will FLIP if you hit the TINIEST rock. CANNOT OFFROAD WITHOUT LOSING 60% of its speed.

The crown victoria (police) has the highest TOP SPEED of the 3 at 220-230 on a highway with 0 bumps but accelerates like a snail and turns like a bus.

The dodge charger/buffalo (police2) has the fastest ACCELERATION of the 3 but caps out at 170 it might hit 180 if you're LUCKY. It is also heavier than a Schafter V12 so maneuverability is out of the question.

Now lets look at the other side and take a quick peek at the current meta for criminal vehicles.

Meanwhile a Sultan Classic can hit 240 in the city due to bumps, accelerates faster than an elegy retro and is more maneuverable than the three cop cars. 

An elegy retro (200k car). Can abuse quick turns, accelerates insanely quick, and is light, small and nimble enough to make it through the sewers with ease.

A novak can hit 240, can hold 4 armed goons and can go offroad without losing much speed.

A kamacho can go off-road with 0 speed loss, can ram cruiser to infinity and beyond, can literally step on cruisers.

Comet Retro can skyrocket to 240 on a straight in seconds.

Rapid GT can skyrocket to 240 on a straight in seconds.

811 can skyrocket to 240 in seconds.

Hakuchou drags can offroad, turn into tiny alleys, escape in tiny cracks and are barely visible from helicopters.

49 minutes ago, FrankieP said:

Further OOC regulations are most definitely needed for cops. Cops refusing to follow their own protocol, being unreasonable, arresting without reason or simply being unprofessional is OOC corruption. Any questioning of these things is usually met with '/b thats IC' or '/b make an IA report'. This should not be allowed.

As someone that has been constantly been scrutinized for ANY bit of corruption in PD by command and internal affairs, I can assure you that corruption and malpractice are investigated with the highest possible level of prejudice. We have ALL of our admin logs checked randomly. Whether its dropping a gun somewhere, storing a pistol somewhere, giving a criminal special treatment. EVERYTHING is looked at by administration, text logs, storage logs, phone logs, etc. I can assure you that the tiny things you complain about when it comes to 'corruption' is just a criminal being uneducated. Protocol is DRILLED into our heads ICLY AND OOCLY. I have been on both sides of the IA crosshair and I can assure you that they do their job properly and any form of corruption is combated. Unprofessional-ism is not tolerated. You have to realize that just because things dont go your way does not mean its corruption. 

54 minutes ago, FrankieP said:

Well done, you've discovered G A N G S

Ah yes because the bloods and crips, Lucky Luciano, Salvatore Maranzano, Latin Kings, etc. Go/Went around in color coded vehicles chasing criminals around the streets in huge convoys, proudly declaring to the police that they are part of an illegal organization!

[Forest]

Would be great if I actually went to prison for actually committing a crime instead of certain cops harassing the same group of people when they are just trying to enjoy some social rp 

[mikebumbum]

35 minutes ago, ClankH said:

Lets both be honest here, as someone that experiences both sides, and as someone that is really close friends OOCly with people that are dedicated crims on the server. Intricate planning does NOT happen. Lets take YOUR gang Dojin-Kai for example. You guys hit banks all the time, whenever possible. Always the same thing. If its pink cage bank? You stack people on roofs, get people inside and then pray to god that cops drop fast enough. Every single time I have been to a bank robbery on my PD character the past week or so, its been with Dojin-Kai alone or with Dokin-Kai being backed up by MurdaBlock. You guys literally MAKE IT TOO EASY to stop the bank. All it turns out to be is a shootout where PD will win due to numbers AND ACTUAL tactics. NOBODY is above the rules, Whenever I have interacted with Dojin en-masse, they follow the pursuit line in an attempt to help their friends, which end up making the police have to act more aggressive by pitting and ramming the suspect vehicle. There was also an instance where Dojin tried to do the classic Zeta technique of blocking the sewer entrance with a contender instead of a bigger car which ended with our kamacho being able to ram through the contender and get both the blocker and the evader. You guys literally set yourselves up for failure when it comes to evading the police and then question WHY you cannot win. Theres been plenty of times where cops have been absolutely massacred by gangs due to ACTUAL tactics being used by them.

Factions already suffer a hit to their budget, Cruisers being destroyed, stolen etc. That isnt free. Even taking the GPS out of your faction vehicle will hit the vault budget. 

 

I can assure you as a member of staff that NOBODY is above the rules. So your point there is invalid in general. Also before you make uneducated assumptions about the ramming capabilities of a "shitty queen vic cruiser". Police issue crown victorias have been used to take down vehicles almost twice their size. They're made to get beat up, TWIN TURBOCHARGED V8 under the hood as well as massive durability. Even newer police vehicles such as the Taurus and Charge (police3 and police2) have insane engines and insane damage resistance. A stock crown victoria weights almost as much as a stock ford f150 pickup truck. 

 

 

The taurus interceptor (police3) caps at 190 and will hit 220 if you're lucky on bumps. Will FLIP if you hit the TINIEST rock. CANNOT OFFROAD WITHOUT LOSING 60% of its speed.

The crown victoria (police) has the highest TOP SPEED of the 3 at 220-230 on a highway with 0 bumps but accelerates like a snail and turns like a bus.

The dodge charger/buffalo (police2) has the fastest ACCELERATION of the 3 but caps out at 170 it might hit 180 if you're LUCKY. It is also heavier than a Schafter V12 so maneuverability is out of the question.

Now lets look at the other side and take a quick peek at the current meta for criminal vehicles.

Meanwhile a Sultan Classic can hit 240 in the city due to bumps, accelerates faster than an elegy retro and is more maneuverable than the three cop cars. 

An elegy retro (200k car). Can abuse quick turns, accelerates insanely quick, and is light, small and nimble enough to make it through the sewers with ease.

A novak can hit 240, can hold 4 armed goons and can go offroad without losing much speed.

A kamacho can go off-road with 0 speed loss, can ram cruiser to infinity and beyond, can literally step on cruisers.

Comet Retro can skyrocket to 240 on a straight in seconds.

Rapid GT can skyrocket to 240 on a straight in seconds.

811 can skyrocket to 240 in seconds.

Hakuchou drags can offroad, turn into tiny alleys, escape in tiny cracks and are barely visible from helicopters.

As someone that has been constantly been scrutinized for ANY bit of corruption in PD by command and internal affairs, I can assure you that corruption and malpractice are investigated with the highest possible level of prejudice. We have ALL of our admin logs checked randomly. Whether its dropping a gun somewhere, storing a pistol somewhere, giving a criminal special treatment. EVERYTHING is looked at by administration, text logs, storage logs, phone logs, etc. I can assure you that the tiny things you complain about when it comes to 'corruption' is just a criminal being uneducated. Protocol is DRILLED into our heads ICLY AND OOCLY. I have been on both sides of the IA crosshair and I can assure you that they do their job properly and any form of corruption is combated. Unprofessional-ism is not tolerated. You have to realize that just because things dont go your way does not mean its corruption. 

Ah yes because the bloods and crips, Lucky Luciano, Salvatore Maranzano, Latin Kings, etc. Go/Went around in color coded vehicles chasing criminals around the streets in huge convoys, proudly declaring to the police that they are part of an illegal organization!

bro theres no other way to do banks we arent allowed to have hostages due to server rules and one of the times we had hostages in the beginning y'all sprayed them all down as soon as they stepped outside. Without a real crim character you cant have an opinion on this as you're fine with the win RP you get from being PD you guys dont understand the struggle of trying to make money as a crim or move as a crim literally. Use banks since you made that an example tell me another way to go about it where theres 1 entrance and 1 exit and as soon as the safe opens cops are alerted within 2 mins 10 plus cops are outside your probably still just breaking through the door inside the safe youre forced to shoot cops because some just literally wont rp they are focused on how long they can make someone afk in jail and ruin their day lets remember this is a video game when one side gets everything for free and the other has to grind hours to get things that get taken by someone who gets stuff spawned for them in a few minutes just to spend 3 plus hours in jail in ill repeat a VIDEO GAME some people have jobs go to school etc you realize some people have to sit in jail for 2 days worth of play time straight just literally doing nothing as it is the most boring rp in the world in other communities police let crims have fun as it gives them fun here it just seems all cops want to do is win and ruin peoples days

 

[HobGoblin]

@mikebumbum   I saw that you said that PD shot down your hostage. I was on scene one time where you had a “hostage” and I can confirm that “hostage” was shot down. You may ask why. The reason was that it was your gang member. If you actually have a hostage we obviously won’t shoot them but using a well know gang member as your hostage won’t get you far.  If you was smarter in the robbery it would have had a different outcome.  Also at most bank robberies with your gang PD has been shot at as soon as they arrive at the bank. This causes a shootout all the time. 

[FrankieP]

1 minute ago, HobGoblin said:

@mikebumbum   I saw that you said that PD shot down your hostage. I was on scene one time where you had a “hostage” and I can confirm that “hostage” was shot down. You may ask why. The reason was that it was your gang member. If you actually have a hostage we obviously won’t shoot them but using a well know gang member as your hostage won’t get you far.  If you was smarter in the robbery it would have had a different outcome.  Also at most bank robberies with your gang PD has been shot at as soon as they arrive at the bank. This causes a shootout all the time. 

It was a bottom ranking Dojin-Kai member, not a "well known gang member" like ghost or Mike. Chat shit. Either way, he was unarmed, your aim should always be to subdue perps with a minimal amount of casualties.

[HobGoblin]

2 minutes ago, FrankieP said:

It was a bottom ranking Dojin-Kai member, not a "well known gang member" like ghost or Mike. Chat shit. Either way, he was unarmed, your aim should always be to subdue perps with a minimal amount of casualties.

Maybe he was low ranking but more than half of the Officer (PD and SD) knew white he was and that he was part of the gang. You all started to push out the bank aiming your guns but sending the hostage first. Using a gang member either way as a hostage was a decisions you all made and as it wasn’t the smartest decision the outcome was shit. 

[STE]

I still don't see how him being a member of our gang means you can just shoot him, when he was un-armed with his arms raised? 

[mikebumbum]

2 minutes ago, HobGoblin said:

Maybe he was low ranking but more than half of the Officer (PD and SD) knew white he was and that he was part of the gang. You all started to push out the bank aiming your guns but sending the hostage first. Using a gang member either way as a hostage was a decisions you all made and as it wasn’t the smartest decision the outcome was shit. 

i cant see how you even can say you have experience on both sides as your crim alt was literally in misfits and that was it you probably never got to even fully experience crim for this to be a real conversation you need to have 2 well known chars one on PD and one Crim at least a main crim as our RP is literally ruined by PD every day because they literally only want to win

[Itzsonzy]

1 hour ago, vuki said:

As for the Prison side of things, in the 3 months I've played crim I only got myself into prison once. Why? because I wasn't being careful, It is VERY easy to avoid police and not get caught, but I do see the issue with jail time, no one wants to sit in jail for 6 hours and I'd like to see the cap back because I don't want to make someone sit in jail for that long, its just not fun.

Come rob some banks with us or get the same response from speeding and evading, we'll see how easy it is to avoid. 

I think lots of points are easier to serve than say, i welcome the majority of people commenting who have not had any recent/relevant criminal experience to log in and enjoy. You will start upvoting the second you loose 40k and 2 hours of your time because someone saw you at the bank with a mask on.

[HobGoblin]

5 minutes ago, mikebumbum said:

i cant see how you even can say you have experience on both sides as your crim alt was literally in misfits and that was it you probably never got to even fully experience crim for this to be a real conversation you need to have 2 well known chars one on PD and one Crim at least a main crim as our RP is literally ruined by PD every day because they literally only want to win

I never stated I had a lot of experience as a crim. Also @mikebumbum to address the part “for this to be a real conversation you need to have 2 well known chars one on PD and one Crim” I wasn’t aware you had a PD alt?  Also about the part where you say PD already want to win. You have got this wrong. PD always want to arrest people as this is our job. Just like crims want to commit crimes and get away with them. 

Edited June 28, 2020 by HobGoblin

[FrankieP]

Will respond to @ClankH when I wake up

[HobGoblin]

3 minutes ago, crazd said:

I still don't see how him being a member of our gang means you can just shoot him, when he was un-armed with his arms raised? 

I don’t remember point by point what happened. Both parties PD and Crim started to shoot each other when the gang was exiting the bank. You sent him out first as a shield as you thought we wouldn’t shoot as you was all behind him. 

[FrankieP]

1 minute ago, HobGoblin said:

I don’t remember point by point what happened. Both parties PD and Crim started to shoot each other when the gang was exiting the bank. You sent him out first as a shield as you thought we wouldn’t shoot as you was all behind him. 

Yes. That is literally the purpose of the hostage as a human shield, to protect us, but apparently winning is so important to PD that the best option was to spray down the whole gaff

[mikebumbum]

1 minute ago, HobGoblin said:

I don’t remember point by point what happened. Both parties PD and Crim started to shoot each other when the gang was exiting the bank. You sent him out first as a shield as you thought we wouldn’t shoot as you was all behind him. 

no lol this isnt what happened no one shot you crims walked out holding up the hostage he was in the front with his hands up as soon as he went through the doors everyone was sprayed down by 50 carbines theres literally no RP in that ive been to jail about 50-60 times because i have 1600 hours on my crim char and not one time of being arrested can i tell you i got any RP from the scenario literally just cops trying to win RP so bad then going straight to cuff you and thats it

[vuki]

2 minutes ago, Itzsonzy said:

Come rob some banks with us or get the same response from speeding and evading, we'll see how easy it is to avoid. 

You are literally just saying you are bad at what you do

 

3 minutes ago, Itzsonzy said:

You will start upvoting the second you loose 40k and 2 hours of your time because someone saw you at the bank with a mask on.

Dont bring your heavies to the bank

[UrbanAwsomeman]

2 minutes ago, mikebumbum said:

no lol this isnt what happened no one shot you crims walked out holding up the hostage he was in the front with his hands up as soon as he went through the doors everyone was sprayed down by 50 carbines theres literally no RP in that ive been to jail about 50-60 times because i have 1600 hours on my crim char and not one time of being arrested can i tell you i got any RP from the scenario literally just cops trying to win RP so bad then going straight to cuff you and thats it

Maybe if all you have are bad RP interactions with PD you are the problem there.

[mikebumbum]

Just now, vuki said:

You are literally just saying you are bad at what you do

 

Dont bring your heavies to the bank

you literally never had a real crim character clearly why do cops feel the need to come to these posts and shit on them its just so cops stay OP and keep winning every scenario like if you havent actually played a real crim you dont get it

[STE]

Just now, vuki said:

You are literally just saying you are bad at what you do

 

Dont bring your heavies to the bank

No one is "bad" at robbing a bank, its straight forward, you have 2 ways to get out of it. Either PD dont turn up and you get out in time or you kill them all, there is no other RP options to do a bank, You used to be able to use a hostage and negotiate but now that even thats gone, theres literally nothing else you can do. 

[mikebumbum]

Just now, UrbanAwsomeman said:

Maybe if all you have are bad RP interactions with PD you are the problem there.

i am a criminal .... im not supposed to have good interactions with PD i expect good RP though which is never given to any crim from any PD

[HobGoblin]

1 minute ago, mikebumbum said:

you literally never had a real crim character clearly why do cops feel the need to come to these posts and shit on them its just so cops stay OP and keep winning every scenario like if you havent actually played a real crim you dont get it

I know that he has a Crim character that was in a Official gang. I have also tried to catch his crim character and each time he successfully evaded. You just have to play smart. 

[vuki]

3 minutes ago, mikebumbum said:

you literally never had a real crim character clearly why do cops feel the need to come to these posts and shit on them its just so cops stay OP and keep winning every scenario like if you havent actually played a real crim you dont get it

Right, my crim character only has 25 days played on him

In Triads

 

Edit: Read my original answer to this post, I literally agreed with half the things said.

Edited June 28, 2020 by vuki
adding things

[UrbanAwsomeman]

Just now, mikebumbum said:

i am a criminal .... im not supposed to have good interactions with PD i expect good RP though which is never given to any crim from any PD

I said good RP interactions not just good interactions. But before you start waving your finger at PD look at yourself first.