PD to Loose Something

[Bala]

I'm just coming up with the same kind of nonsense as "cops if they die should lose part of their salary". 

[Denza]

1 minute ago, Chronius420 said:

I mean.. Think wisely....  Yes.  They could add some realism.. But CK or death sentence how you call is pretty dumb... Firstly we have longer jail time which is dumb allready. For example ,you are working IRL , you come from work to play some ECRP for a hour or so , but you staying in jail for 24hours.. So ya mean, you will have to wait 24days if ya not sleeping on pc ? Real life is real life. Game is Game.

why do you get in these situations that land you in prison for that long anyways? Do you think that the cartels and old italian mafias went around shooting shit up constantly, having them land in jail? No, most of the time they tried to play it safe but without affecting their organization in any huge way. What's dumb is having to come up to a gun fight in the city center with multiple automatic firearms being shot from all sides.

[Chronius420]

2 minutes ago, Denza said:

why do you get in these situations that land you in prison for that long anyways? Do you think that the cartels and old italian mafias went around shooting shit up constantly, having them land in jail? No, most of the time they tried to play it safe but without affecting their organization in any huge way. What's dumb is having to come up to a gun fight in the city center with multiple automatic firearms being shot from all sides.

As I can see you cant understand whats the difference between Game and Real life.. Ofc you will try to play safely in real life... But its a game... Shootouts are big part of the RP and you cant change anything... Cuz gangs/maffia's will allways try to clap each other... Yes , maybe clapping in city center is little bit dumb , but yeah... I think ya got me. No offense.

Edited October 25, 2019 by Chronius420

[Denza]

2 minutes ago, Chronius420 said:

As I can see you cant understand whats the difference between Game and Real life.. Ofc you will try to play safely in real life... But its a game... Shootouts are big part of the RP and you cant change anything... Cuz gangs/maffia's will allways try to clap each other... Yes , maybe clapping in city center is little bit dumb , but yeah... I think ya got me. No offense.

We are supposed to be an immitation of real life. Yes, it is a game. But the purpose of OUR game is the immitation of real life with a few parts cut out.

[Yputi]

I will get back to the topic...

+1

[Chronius420]

1 minute ago, Denza said:

We are supposed to be an immitation of real life. Yes, it is a game. But the purpose of OUR game is the immitation of real life with a few parts cut out.

I mean... We are just wasting our time with these real life ideas.... The best idea to a fair game - You should be able to pick up all the stuff from injured officer. Thats it.

[Denza]

1 minute ago, Chronius420 said:

The best idea to a fair game - You should be able to pick up all the stuff from injured officer. Thats it.

That, I like the idea of. Same goes for any item and weapon used by someone who was killed on a scene. Of course with a few rules set as when this can be done.

[Chronius420]

Just now, Denza said:

That, I like the idea of. Same goes for any item and weapon used by someone who was killed on a scene. Of course with a few rules set as when this can be done.

YESS , FINALLY. A NORMAL PERSON WITH NORMAL MIND :))))))))))

[Cyrus Raven]

-1 From an RP stand point it doesn't make sense. PD/SD/DOC are government factions, I will not pay out of my own pocket for equipment, it is up to my employer to provide these. If you want, push for a restricted government budget where PD/SD are only able to take out 1 heavy every 6-10 hours due to limited supply and the high value of these weapons.


I will also add that the reason PD/SD don't ''lose'' anything is because we didn't have anything to lose to begin with (only radio/map/food/bobby pins), if you want to RP as a criminal you are risking your lively hood and your items by driving around with heavies and conducting illegal activities. Let me make this clear, I will support your efforts to reduce the 1VS3+ gunfights if it is found that the Deputy of Officer didn't value their life, but adding something to lose just because you guys chose to be criminals and go around committing crimes is something I will never +1, this isn't a cops and robbers server, if you want to keep your items then think smart and fight less.  The police force is suppose to have a leg up to criminals, that's how it works in any non cops and robbers RP server.

As for wanting realism and then not wanting it applied to you, I agree with @GOAT with his overall point. Criminals want to own businesses in the busiest parts of Los Santos, own Multi-Million dollar vehicles, etc... Can you seriously argue that these are ''acceptable and realistic'' for criminals ? If so, why is this realistic, but not cops having access to equipment purchased by the government ?

[Denza]

8 minutes ago, GWXCORE said:

Maybe when cops get clapped they can go spend their NLR at impound, or checking parking passes at bank and Tequi-la-la.

We follow the same NLR guidelines as everyone else. We dont respond to the situation in which we died in and we wait for it to clear before resuming our patrol duties.

[GoldenEye]

So you say that cops are overpowered??

What about criminals? Zetas have a store behind the most populated bank in the city and yet they carry heavy weapons in front of the public. If they see a cruiser passing by, they do nothing except harassing them. They park at Mission Row parking (Police station which is a NCZ) and refuse to leave. Who does that IRL? The owner of one of car dealerships has been caught at least 10 times for murdering and importing illegal weapons and yet still running his company and selling vehicles to the public. Which is more non-rp? Gang members taking over one of the biggest states of USA or cops taking control of it?

[MrSilky]

I'll read the comments after, I just want to say before reading everything - Why do PD have to lose something? IRL Cops go to work and are provided with the equipment required for duty. IRL criminals purchase their illegal items (or are supplied by their illegal organisation) to carry out their duty. 

The premise of this discussion (from the few responses I have read) are that they need to lose something to value their life more? If they are not valuing their life (regardless of potential item loss) they are in breach of the Fear RP rule.

It is completely illogical to force PD to lose something (which I assume you mean of monetary value) as they are working with the equipment provided to them by the state. If you want to go down that route, let's raise taxes so the state can realistically afford what is required to maintain the streets, 

[nikoh]

4 minutes ago, GoldenEye said:

So you say that cops are overpowered??

What about criminals? Zetas have a store behind the most populated bank in the city and yet they carry heavy weapons in front of the public. If they see a cruiser passing by, they do nothing except harassing them. They park at Mission Row parking (Police station which is a NCZ) and refuse to leave. Who does that IRL? The owner of one of car dealerships has been caught at least 10 times for murdering and importing illegal weapons and yet still running his company and selling vehicles to the public. Which is more non-rp? Gang members taking over one of the biggest states of USA or cops taking control of it?

Corrupt Govt Entities vs Corrupt Civilian Businesses.. hmmm.

 

Youre off topic, clearly from a clouded and biased point of view. Lots of have PD-SD have little fear for their life, as proven by Hoxton’s videos, with that being said, it’s more common than not, for Criminals to come out in top in gun fights. Everyone here besides the few IC cops i’ve seen comment, just want something for the cops to lose, just as criminals do. Realism aside, i’m speaking from a server balance perspective. Cops cars can’t be started without a key, their items are scripted, they can refill body armor whenever by simply RPing it by their cruiser. 

 

My personal opinion would only be that upon death, cops should receive some kind of cool down for every item that they take from the script. 

ex. Cop 21 refills his kevlar, and cannot do so for another OOC hour, 

or

Cop 21 removes a carbine, and cannot remove another for 2 OOC hours 

[Fuz]

On 10/8/2019 at 12:50 PM, Fuz said:

I think PD/SD should lose something like criminals do once re-spawning. Their should be some sort of monetary loss implemented if PD/SD re-spawn/inability to continue their PD/SD work for a short while.

When criminals re-spawn, they lose everything on them. Majority of the time, once re-spawned, criminals do absolutely nothing and wait the half-an-hour, in fear of breaching NLR. In the meantime, their stuff is taken and their cars/bikes are chopped and they are left with nothing.

When PD/SD die, they lose absolutely nothing. They run to mission row and spawn a vehicle with all their weapons and stuff inside, free of charge, and resume their 'watch'.

Another point to add is that PD/SD should always be bigger and stronger than criminals, but that does not mean criminals lose every single battle they have with PD/SD, it should always be a uphill battle for criminals and one in which the odds are against them (as they are now).

 

[corrosive]

To be a criminal, you go buy a gun and do something with it. To be a cop, you have to apply, get accepted, go through hard training stages. And that's just to be a cadet. Then you have to do a ton of paperwork and apply to other divisions to rank up to be able to get better guns for gunfights. It not a simple case of we lose nothing, because we have to put hours in to learning, training and paperwork. where criminals only need to rob money and buy a gun to earn more money and buy a better gun

[Will215]

15 minutes ago, DetectiveStone said:

Corrupt Govt Entities vs Corrupt Civilian Businesses.. hmmm.

 

Youre off topic, clearly from a clouded and biased point of view. Lots of have PD-SD have little fear for their life, as proven by Hoxton’s videos, with that being said, it’s more common than not, for Criminals to come out in top in gun fights. Everyone here besides the few IC cops i’ve seen comment, just want something for the cops to lose, just as criminals do. Realism aside, i’m speaking from a server balance perspective. Cops cars can’t be started without a key, their items are scripted, they can refill body armor whenever by simply RPing it by their cruiser. 

 

My personal opinion would only be that upon death, cops should receive some kind of cool down for every item that they take from the script. 

ex. Cop 21 refills his kevlar, and cannot do so for another OOC hour, 

or

Cop 21 removes a carbine, and cannot remove another for 2 OOC hours 

This seems logical! I don't having the ability to spawn heavy weapons whenever they want, on demand is realistic. A timer would help this, great suggestion!

[Salvador Rivera]

5 hours ago, KCAJ said:

I don’t really know what they could loose but leave some ideas below. There has been multiple times were they gun into 2v10 gun fights and they have nothing to loose but there life as they get everything for free. As were criminals loose there life vehicle weapons or maybe go to jail loosing a lot of time. 

EC:RP need to make new Faction L.S.A.F Los Santos Armed Force so these guys could be in charge than L.S.P.D and L.S.C.S.P have guns and all stuff to do they Duty jobs .

If L.S.P.D or L.S.C.S.P taking  Guns out from locker than each gun takes like 4/1000 volume out from the safe and if there is no more stuff inside than they need Special Order from L.S.A.F to make a delivery till that they don't have a chance to get gun or tazer out from the locker not even a vest . So this one could give a new chance to open new Faction and this would work for 100% . 

Peoples who play long time ago in NGG back in 2015 know what I'm talking about and that was fun . 

[Cyrus Raven]

1 hour ago, Chris Bluestone said:

EC:RP need to make new Faction L.S.A.F Los Santos Armed Force so these guys could be in charge than L.S.P.D and L.S.C.S.P have guns and all stuff to do they Duty jobs .

If L.S.P.D or L.S.C.S.P taking  Guns out from locker than each gun takes like 4/1000 volume out from the safe and if there is no more stuff inside than they need Special Order from L.S.A.F to make a delivery till that they don't have a chance to get gun or tazer out from the locker not even a vest . So this one could give a new chance to open new Faction and this would work for 100% . 

Peoples who play long time ago in NGG back in 2015 know what I'm talking about and that was fun . 

I like this idea, good old NGG days, although I would be concerned about the mentality about these shipments, on one hand I would find it cool that criminals have something else to do, but it also contributes to the cops vs robbers mentality which I am not a fan of. I would enjoy seeing suggestion that decrease gang activity (and expand on gang roleplay and quality) and increase civilian role play too, I fear this suggestion would go against that, but who knows if it's well done it could be good.

[UrbanAwsomeman]

As someone that spends pretty much all his time as a cop I would be down for some restrictions to PD. The idea of weapons being on a cooldown is good but with the few amount of officers that are actually able to deploy such weapons I don't think it would do much. What people forget is that a criminal can get his/her hands on a heavy weapon quite easily whereas a cop has to go through the training, months of experience for promotions and then they have very strict guidelines on when they can and can not use the weapons.

I also think that people complaining about cops going in 1v3 or 1v5 or 1vWhatever is a double edged sword. If you are going to complain about that why do criminals often drive around close to scenes full of armed officers on bikes or park up in cars metres from the scene? sounds like your not fearing for your life. And from personal experience if you want to not have to face officers with heavy weapons all the time up your strategy. So many scenes where we have deployed heavy weapons have been because the criminals have extremely poor strategys for getting their friend back.

[Pertinax]

4 hours ago, Chronius420 said:

Why are you crying here? Oh I know! Because u are cop... But if you were a criminal , you would think different.. Cops have everything... And they wont loose anything. Different story for criminals..  As I said , big +1 to this , and the game must be equal

Welcome to a Role Play server and not a Criminals vs Police server.
The game is not suppose to be equal, since the police department in Los Angeles (Where the server is based of) is way stronger than criminals, criminals are suppose to be smart play the cards stay out of the radar couse if they don't do the cops will visit you, And most of the police force have M4s, we need to actually reach the rank of SGT to have those. As PO I you only got handguns, where in RL they Have shotguns, we don't have access to those until PO II, and it takes a lot of time to actually go up rank.

So stop crying and release that this is a RP server, not a cops vs robbers server. Here PD should be the stronger force, we should even have Automatic License plate Readers so we get advice for a stolen vehicle. There's a lot of features that we don't have in the server that they are in Real Life.

[Xoza]

+/-1

A law abiding citizen can make more than a criminal and law enforcement at a base level.

When you threaten the life or property owned by another, you become a criminal. Law Enforcement is hired, tasked and funded by the government to reduce criminal activities that threaten the livelihood and freedoms of the citizens to conduct legal business and pay taxes to said government. Law enforcement falls under strict guidelines IC and OOC. They aren't allowed to run around and just whatever they want, they're under constant scrutiny. They don't have the freedoms any other citizen has else they risk their job. Being an LEO is not easy and it's a lot of work.

I've found too often during an encounter 1v3+, criminals are too quick to pull the trigger or finish off an officer. If you outnumber someone, make sure they know it. Unless there is a danger to themselves or others, officers don't usually fire first, use this to your advantage, it will definitely help improve RP.

From my experience, officers KIA spend about 5-15 minutes getting their stuff back together, food, radio, map, GPS. They take a break and debate a little about the situation and work the desk. They'll release their cruiser (so it remains on scene) so they can withdraw another. They'll ignore all calls pertaining and leading to the area they died and patrol completely opposite areas of the map for usually more than an hour. The only time I've seen them return to a scene, is when it's gone on longer than 30 min and they're only helping clean up the scene.

I know a lot of you don't see these things directly, sure, I may be a 'little' biased if even, but if you look at my server suggestion supporting history, I have plenty that supports adding criminal and citizen elements equally.

---

As for the topic at hand. Cops to 'loose' something.

• The cop looses their life and the items they had. (Clothing, food, radio, GPS, map, all adds up, that alone could be the loss of an hour of pay already.)
• They have no knowledge of the situation, they loose the opportunity to be part of that RP and end up having to separate from it completely. A lot of time, being part of a scene is what's enjoyable.
• Every time a cruiser is spawned, the faction does loose an amount of money. (unknown exactly how much that is)
• They also have potential for further situations. There's a stray cruiser out there their previous self left that could definitely be stolen and used in further crimes they'll have to deal with.
• Maybe 20 officers on duty, 200 people on the server. Officers are still outnumbered and disadvantaged.
• Of every single call to the police, approximately 1 in 5-10? result in an arrest. I'd call that, crime resolution failure.
• During a shootout, criminals have a 100% chance possibility of caring a heavy weapon as they are not restricted by policies only bank and accessibility. Officers encountered have up average of 50% chance of being able to carry a heavy weapon. Thus 2 officers, one with a heavy vs 10 criminals, all high probability with heavies.

[Tomvd682]

2 hours ago, MrSilky said:

I'll read the comments after, I just want to say before reading everything - Why do PD have to lose something? IRL Cops go to work and are provided with the equipment required for duty. IRL criminals purchase their illegal items (or are supplied by their illegal organisation) to carry out their duty. 

The premise of this discussion (from the few responses I have read) are that they need to lose something to value their life more? If they are not valuing their life (regardless of potential item loss) they are in breach of the Fear RP rule.

It is completely illogical to force PD to lose something (which I assume you mean of monetary value) as they are working with the equipment provided to them by the state. If you want to go down that route, let's raise taxes so the state can realistically afford what is required to maintain the streets, 

"Why do PD have to lose something? IRL Cops go to work and are provided with the equipment required for duty."
Because of exampled @Hoxton_Curry posted, officer not carrying caring about their IC life or the rp situation others are having and just drive in to a group of people as a one man army with the obvious outcome being dying within 5 seconds.
 

Also you're saying it as the police department pays for the equipment that's being used and/or lost

[Jonathan Willowick]

The few Police Officers than even can take out heavy weapons have put in an extreme amount of time and dedication to their RP on the server. They don't just join the LSPD and have access to a slew of heavy weapons to use. For months even after you join, you are stuck fighting 10+ gang members all stocked with heavy weapons, they got just by joining the gang with a .50 pistol, while the majority of the time you are very outnumbered.

I can't count the amount of scenes I've been at where we have 5 or 6 units and are trying to deal with detaining 1 or 2 suspects, and the next thing you know we have shots being fired at us from heavy weapons from every direction around us by 15+ people. Honestly the majority of the time there is a police/gang shootout, the gang wins the fight because there is only so many police units on duty, and they are unable to come back to the scene because of the NLR to provide further backup to a gang can just take over an area with no repercussions because no police can respond to that area from NLR.

I've also lost plenty from dying on duty because I chose to carry things with me on duty. No different choosing to carry a bunch of things on a criminal activity knowing you have the chance to lose it at some point.

You also talk about things need to be equal, while the majority of the people who are committing crimes are driving maxed out motorcycles and a handful of other vehicles that easily outrun the police in most situations while being equipped with heavy weapons, while the vast majority of officers are driving vehicles that have no chance at keeping up with these things while equipped with a .50 pistol. I can't count how many bikes I see in the city just ignoring all laws because they know they are damn near invincible unless they crash. Personally I think bikes speed should be reduced to get more people using cars and trucks, but still be viable options in areas where there are many narrow corridors to escape, but not as good on long stretches of road.

 

[TheCactus]

7 hours ago, Hoxton_Curry said:

Something should be done because I've seen PD take fights where they are heavily outnumbered way too often 

(1vs5, 1vs7, 1vs15, 2vs10 etc)

Example: 

https://youtu.be/7zP5csSZe2Q 

https://streamable.com/vkvhq

(credits to @Fuz and @JakeInnit_)

I can find at least 5 more similar videos if needed

What they did there is on the edge of Non-Rp. That should become reportable in the future since no human who cares about staying alive would approach a situation like that, hoping to get something out of it.


I honestly took a total of two fights when outnumbered:
- 2v7 and we expected backup but nobody arrived from our side while Zetas got backup and after the 6th dead dude we got shit on (chop shop near DOC, some weeks ago)
- the gunfight at Legion Square, 22/OCT at 01:00 UTC. There were too many gangs vs the whole PD and backup kept coming. After 3 men down I hid in a bush and then surrendered.
I took those because we had tactical advantage and still lost. I died 12 times in 5 months during PD duty (excluding rulebreakers that DM-ed me and got punished and code 0 deaths) and when I see those cops running in even 1v3 or 1v4, I feel super embarassed.


At this point I think that police should be able to take out one heavy weapon for each kind every 12/24h (SWAT/SED can use them all while normal units usually use shotguns and mp5). This would change the situation a little but I do not know how they will add a script that allows it since we lock and unlock weapons from gunracks constantly (/pw and add/remove weapon while near a cruiser). I know that police is supposed to be overpowered because that's how they are IRL but the videos Hoxton showed are the opposite of IRL.

Edited October 25, 2019 by TheCactus
More details

[flow]

We can apply a lot more realism, but the issue is that most, not all, but most, criminal entities on this server will not like it. Cops don't lose anything, that's as realist as it gets. The government, through the means taxation, pays for any and all equipment used. This is as close to realism as it gets. It is up to you to be smart about not getting caught, not carrying your heavy weapons to show off and only using them when absolutely necesarry, otherwise keeping them stashed away. You cry for realism yet you refuse to have the same argument applied to you. It's the same story every month this kind of thread pops up. Cops are too unrealistic, they should lose things yada yada, but when faced with the reality of how unrealistic the criminal system works, suddenly it's "just a game bro". You can not try and argue for more realism to only be applied to one faction and not the other. Take my weapons and my paycheck when I die, but god forbid I catch you felony evading, that car is getting auctioned off and sold to the highest bidder to pay for those weapons we lost. You own a gun store while you have gun related criminal charges? Wave that good bye, the government sure will appreciate the extra income once it's auctioned off.

 

Point of this being, most of you don't want a fair game, you want a game biased to your playstyle. Most of you want to have the upper hand. Your cry for realism is a disguised cry for a weaker enemy. Most of the factions on this server, not all, notably the Zetas for the most part (Zetas being an example of a faction that is part of the few that do not do this btw), are ran like crap and have only one thing in mind, fucking shit up. Unless you are willing to make sacrifices in return for changes to the other side, you can put your suggestion back into that bin of jealousy they came from.

Edited October 25, 2019 by flow