Wizzidy Posted April 17, 2019 Report Share Posted April 17, 2019 I am not sure if I am the only one who feels this way but it kills the fun of the game to have police be so weighted by the rules. They do not have to value lives like cops, they don't have to protect like cops, honestly they are just a government funded gang. I agree there needs to be restrictions empowering the police because they need to get a second player catch-up, but also recently the cop tactics are to go to an armed robbery and run up with no lights or sirens on despite running red lights, and smash into the door of the store locking it in place which is already infuriating because it is unrealistic and feels helpless. Then we have the problem of hostages, right now the cashiers are not considered a life... criminals talk to them, they are allowed to be used to identify us, but the police can barge into 4 armed gunmen with no value for the life. I imagine some restrictions need to happen, them used to make demands can be overwhelming and a nuisance but maybe they should have to wait until the gunmen leave the store to charge with weapons and cars? It has just become too much rule play and trying to win, I see so often police telling us ((its allowed)) without ever even considering, is this fun? No car chases? No speaking or engagement with the police or hostages... the whole situation just needs a second look in my opinion. A couple of my suggestions are: Make the police value life, but make consequences for using a hostage higher... possibly by making them form a perimeter instead of just running in. Make blocking doors explicitly against the rule, we all know that windows and back doors don't work in this game so it is cheese to have it otherwise. Make police have to make two or three explicit warnings before firing, right now they see a person run when they don't have a gun on them and they pull out guns and start shooting like IA wouldn't murder them for that... Lastly and this is not a rule restructure it is on us the players, lets remember the game isn't about amassing wealth and winning, it is about having fun and funny and interesting role play experiences, lets stop trying to do the minimum and make the role play better together 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strainer Posted April 17, 2019 Report Share Posted April 17, 2019 +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatboy3288 Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 +11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OBESE Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 I feel what you say, but this seems like such a waste of time, because soon enough a police officer or even higher rank police employee will come and tell you that everything is peachy and you're dreaming. Nothing in Police work is OP and that police is actually struggling a lot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizzidy Posted April 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 41 minutes ago, OBESE said: I feel what you say, but this seems like such a waste of time, because soon enough a police officer or even higher rank police employee will come and tell you that everything is peachy and you're dreaming. Nothing in Police work is OP and that police is actually struggling a lot. I think they have open minds and if we don't start somewhere how will anything get better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flow Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 10 hours ago, Wizzidy said: then we have the problem of hostages, right now the cashiers are not considered a life... 10 hours ago, Wizzidy said: right now the cashiers are not considered a life... criminals talk to them, they are allowed to be used to identify us You are right that if a store is being breached and you are pointing a gun at the cashier, then that's a bit odd. I can agree with that point. If however, you're hiding in the back or behind shelves, it's fair play to enter the store. 10 hours ago, Wizzidy said: recently the cop tactics are to go to an armed robbery and run up with no lights or sirens on despite running red lights, Nobody should ever respond to a robbery call Code-4 (Without lights and sirens). A store robbery call is always a Code-3 (With lights and sirens) response. What may happen occasionally is the order "Go Code-2 when a mile out" being given which means when a mile out, switch to lights only without sirens, this is done to not alert the robbers. If you see these things happen then please make a report on the LSPD forums. It is vital that the PD gets that information. We take our protocols and regulations very seriously which anyone that has been in the PD can attest for, but if things don't get reported to us, it can't be fixed. 10 hours ago, Wizzidy said: Make blocking doors explicitly against the rule, we all know that windows and back doors don't work in this game so it is cheese to have it otherwise. I agree with this being very unfair and that in a real-life situation, it is highly unlikely to happen. 10 hours ago, Wizzidy said: Make police have to make two or three explicit warnings before firing, right now they see a person run when they don't have a gun on them and they pull out guns and start shooting like IA wouldn't murder them for that... We do have to give very clear demands before opening fire at all times unless of course fired upon. This should never happen, nobody without a weapon should ever be shot by us. That fact is being stressed over and over again and is taken very seriously. If something like that happens I can just again ask anyone to report it to us. Get their IDs, a video, screenshots, anything that helps us identify the person and they will always be reprimanded for such behaviour. We do want a fair and level playing ground for everyone on the server, no member of PD is exempt from server rules. Our internal protocols often go beyond the server rules and restrict our realm of action more than someone who isn't in the PD. We always aim to be an example of OOC behaviour and IC roleplay standards. If things like that happen, we rely on anyone in the community who is affected by it to report it to us. Yes, it means work for yourself but realise that nothing can change unless we have something to work with. The Officer who breaks the rules and protocols cannot be suspended, demoted or discharged without someone reporting his misconduct. Save this link, and please make use of it whenever you feel like the situation you have been in was not right. https://gov.eclipse-rp.net/viewforum.php?f=24 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel_Underwood Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Chilly Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denni Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 But this is how North Korea works... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizzidy Posted April 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 (edited) 17 hours ago, flow said: You are right that if a store is being breached and you are pointing a gun at the cashier, then that's a bit odd. I can agree with that point. If however, you're hiding in the back or behind shelves, it's fair play to enter the store. Nobody should ever respond to a robbery call Code-4 (Without lights and sirens). A store robbery call is always a Code-3 (With lights and sirens) response. What may happen occasionally is the order "Go Code-2 when a mile out" being given which means when a mile out, switch to lights only without sirens, this is done to not alert the robbers. If you see these things happen then please make a report on the LSPD forums. It is vital that the PD gets that information. We take our protocols and regulations very seriously which anyone that has been in the PD can attest for, but if things don't get reported to us, it can't be fixed. I agree with this being very unfair and that in a real-life situation, it is highly unlikely to happen. We do have to give very clear demands before opening fire at all times unless of course fired upon. This should never happen, nobody without a weapon should ever be shot by us. That fact is being stressed over and over again and is taken very seriously. If something like that happens I can just again ask anyone to report it to us. Get their IDs, a video, screenshots, anything that helps us identify the person and they will always be reprimanded for such behaviour. We do want a fair and level playing ground for everyone on the server, no member of PD is exempt from server rules. Our internal protocols often go beyond the server rules and restrict our realm of action more than someone who isn't in the PD. We always aim to be an example of OOC behaviour and IC roleplay standards. If things like that happen, we rely on anyone in the community who is affected by it to report it to us. Yes, it means work for yourself but realise that nothing can change unless we have something to work with. The Officer who breaks the rules and protocols cannot be suspended, demoted or discharged without someone reporting his misconduct. Save this link, and please make use of it whenever you feel like the situation you have been in was not right. https://gov.eclipse-rp.net/viewforum.php?f=24 So what do I do if I was shot many times intentionally with an assault rifle without ever having a firearm or threatening the officer outside of trying to get out of a blocked door? This wants a badge number but I couldn't ask for the badge number... also the car ran up without lights or sirens, you say it only happens in a specific code, but in the 4 times ive had police show up to a robbery, every single time has been the "ghost" attempt... you may believe that the PD is full of like minded individuals but most of your department is just looking to win for money... I will try to make this report but I bet you my good name that it won't equate to anything, the PD in game is as corrupt if not more so than the one IRL one and I believe one of the only way to change it is if the server rules begin to reflect the policies you say your officers are supposed to follow. The only enjoyable role play I have ever had with an officer has been when I was getting checked into jail, because he took me role playing seriously instead of the shoot first mentality of the beat cops... I will also note after going to the government forums that the IA report forms are convoluted to the point that almost nobody is going to report offense because the regulations and processes far surpass filling out a form with evidence, it needs a format a special forum account, a bunch of information you actually have to obtain from an officer while the officer is offending which seems contradictory... Edited April 19, 2019 by Wizzidy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappaDoink Posted April 19, 2019 Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teca Posted April 19, 2019 Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 +1 similar topic was made by @OBESE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizzidy Posted April 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 51 minutes ago, SkuLLar said: +1 i would also like the police to drop the weapons they are shooting at me with, I do not think its fair that if they come to a drug lab and have a gun fight with me if they kill me i lose all my items and guns, and if they die they dont lose the guns do not need to purchase another one, and dont drop the weapon itself that they are shooting with. Police is the biggest threat to any person in game, so players should at least be rewarded for taking them down. Even if you kill a cop and be able to take their items it doesnt mean there wont be a chase and you wont get caught so i think it will be fair I want to focus less on killing looting and winning, and more just on the practical role play. What about car chases... you know how many car chases happen in Eclipse? not a whole lot... if any because of this sort of kill and get the loot mentality.... it just sucks, because I don't mind being caught, but I am not being caught I am being overpowered without a chance for a chase.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoobDude Posted April 19, 2019 Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 It's funny gangs expect us to roleplay more and follow server rules when you are the ones setting the roleplay bar too low and breaking rules often. The way it is right now is totally fine. Cops are supposed to be OP and they are OP as of now. That's how it should remain or else we would have gangs running the streets and taking law into their own hands. We are representing America, not Columbia. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusketDeezNuts Posted April 19, 2019 Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 Moved to dicussion sub-section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djnugget Posted April 19, 2019 Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 i found it particularly realistic when 3 cops came out of nowhere while i was being robbed and shot ME and then proceeded to have the EMTS look after the two criminals first while leaving the victim (Me) bleeding out having full knowledge that THEY shot me Murica xD 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reeceobz Posted April 20, 2019 Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 On 4/18/2019 at 12:11 AM, Copperhorse said: LSPD should have a treasury like the rest of us and have to actually buy pistols shotguns armor etc. +1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCanadian Posted April 20, 2019 Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 On 4/17/2019 at 7:11 PM, Copperhorse said: LSPD should have a treasury like the rest of us and have to actually buy pistols shotguns armor etc. +1 to this. i've said it many times before but the fact every officer gets everything for free with no cost to themselves or the PD treasury is crazy. They do not have to value any form of economy on their side of the factions, everything is given for free. Should i just spray to cover fire on a corner they might peek? Sure, fuck it, ammo, weapons and armor are free so why wouldn't i. They don't need to care about any form of expenses, its all just handed to them. PD should most definitely get a form of economy in regards to their purchases of weapons, armor and specialized vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizzidy Posted April 20, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 13 hours ago, NoobDude said: It's funny gangs expect us to roleplay more and follow server rules when you are the ones setting the roleplay bar too low and breaking rules often. The way it is right now is totally fine. Cops are supposed to be OP and they are OP as of now. That's how it should remain or else we would have gangs running the streets and taking law into their own hands. We are representing America, not Columbia. I think you have a massive disillusion about what happens when crimes are committed in the US... how much cops do you watch to imagine that the good guys always win? To put this in perspective in 2017 there were over 300000 armed robberies in the US... and according to the NJRS webpage only 1 in 4 of these is solved. That means the cops should lose roughly 75% of the time... the cops are op, they make the game not fun, and they are using unrealistic tactics and we should appreciate what that means and adjust accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flow Posted April 20, 2019 Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 20 hours ago, Wizzidy said: I want to focus less on killing looting and winning, and more just on the practical role play. What about car chases... you know how many car chases happen in Eclipse? not a whole lot... if any because of this sort of kill and get the loot mentality.... it just sucks, because I don't mind being caught, but I am not being caught I am being overpowered without a chance for a chase.... You are very wrong about that. We are in chases more often than I can count. And that has always been and will always be a daily occurrence. While you might have had a bad experience it does not mean that there is anything majorly wrong with the PD. We give you the tools to report any and all PD members for anything you deem misconduct. You complained that the report form is too much to fill out. Well, we are sorry that we require a lot of detail. We do this because we take it seriously, we investigate all reports fully and then come to a conclusion. In order for that to be as beneficial to your claims as possible, we need all of the information we can get. This thread had potential to go somewhere and be a constructive discussion but it has once again been derailed by people who refuse to see any other point than their own. I will say one last thing for everyone who believes the PD is corrupt, power-hungry and plays to win. If the PD had only the server rules to follow, like all of you, and not the internal protocols, you would be back on here asking for the old way back. The reason you're not being arrested for Murder while only speeding is not the server rules but our internal regulations and protocols. If we were only bound to the server rules like everyone else, I promise you would not be happy. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knoxi Posted April 20, 2019 Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 On 4/18/2019 at 10:44 PM, Wizzidy said: I will also note after going to the government forums that the IA report forms are convoluted to the point that almost nobody is going to report offense because the regulations and processes far surpass filling out a form with evidence, it needs a format a special forum account, a bunch of information you actually have to obtain from an officer while the officer is offending which seems contradictory... https://gov.eclipse-rp.net/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=3259 The IA reports are IC and OOC. Make a forum account, nearly 10,000 have been made and counting, it only takes a moment. A name and badge number are not required but if you can provide one then do so. We do ask to provide a description of the officer. If you have recording software like most people do, you shouldn't have any issue uploading a copy of the video and submitting that with the report, as that is usually enough to identify the officer in question, with a description provided. You can always ask OOCly for the information such as name and badge number, just be sure to fill the form accordingly with (( OOC )) brackets where applicable. Many people have managed the IA report system with no issues, we have a great team of people who manage Internal Affairs. We cannot fix things unless notified properly. It is not uncommon that a newer officer may make a mistake or two in their early career, versus that of a seasoned officer who has been in the faction six months to over a year. If we don't see ourselves, or have incidents reported, then we cannot be sure that the officer in question will not make the same mistake again. These incidents should have been reported through our gov-forums long before it is a post on the eclipse forums, especially if a lot of people are unaware how seriously we take things and how in-depth our protocols are. If you feel something might be wrong such as protocol being broken, feel free to make that report, it'll be investigated fully and handled accordingly. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTown Posted April 20, 2019 Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 +1 I feel the cop system is decent but there are a lot of cops that try to abuse there powers. I run into it daily and have to basically train them myself to do there jobs. RP is suppose to mimic IRL therefore we don't make up our own laws so that way we get our little way. Also with the store situation try getting a hostage and see if the cops RP it. Cause if you got a hostage they shouldn't come in gun blazing. Should be more focused on saving the hostages life then proceed with a car chase. Don't fire unless fired at. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sauer Stein Posted April 20, 2019 Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 On 4/17/2019 at 5:56 PM, Wizzidy said: I am not sure if I am the only one who feels this way but it kills the fun of the game to have police be so weighted by the rules. They do not have to value lives like cops, they don't have to protect like cops, honestly they are just a government funded gang. I agree there needs to be restrictions empowering the police because they need to get a second player catch-up, but also recently the cop tactics are to go to an armed robbery and run up with no lights or sirens on despite running red lights, and smash into the door of the store locking it in place which is already infuriating because it is unrealistic and feels helpless. Then we have the problem of hostages, right now the cashiers are not considered a life... criminals talk to them, they are allowed to be used to identify us, but the police can barge into 4 armed gunmen with no value for the life. I imagine some restrictions need to happen, them used to make demands can be overwhelming and a nuisance but maybe they should have to wait until the gunmen leave the store to charge with weapons and cars? It has just become too much rule play and trying to win, I see so often police telling us ((its allowed)) without ever even considering, is this fun? No car chases? No speaking or engagement with the police or hostages... the whole situation just needs a second look in my opinion. A couple of my suggestions are: Make the police value life, but make consequences for using a hostage higher... possibly by making them form a perimeter instead of just running in. Make blocking doors explicitly against the rule, we all know that windows and back doors don't work in this game so it is cheese to have it otherwise. Make police have to make two or three explicit warnings before firing, right now they see a person run when they don't have a gun on them and they pull out guns and start shooting like IA wouldn't murder them for that... Lastly and this is not a rule restructure it is on us the players, lets remember the game isn't about amassing wealth and winning, it is about having fun and funny and interesting role play experiences, lets stop trying to do the minimum and make the role play better together Well said. The cops are too powerful as a whole in my opinion. I think they'd value their lives more if their weapons dropped if they died. That way, if they die, they know they're giving more guns to criminals and will have to be more careful. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anatoly Posted April 20, 2019 Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
November Posted April 20, 2019 Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 On 4/18/2019 at 11:44 PM, Wizzidy said: So what do I do if I was shot many times intentionally with an assault rifle without ever having a firearm or threatening the officer outside of trying to get out of a blocked door? you should report it On 4/18/2019 at 11:44 PM, Wizzidy said: also the car ran up without lights or sirens It is possible that the lights are out of sync. I have noticed this in chases. On 4/19/2019 at 7:29 AM, SkuLLar said: i would also like the police to drop the weapons they are shooting at me with, I do not think its fair that if they come to a drug lab and have a gun fight with me if they kill me i lose all my items and guns, and if they die they dont lose the guns do not need to purchase another one, and dont drop the weapon itself that they are shooting with. Dropping the weapons is an issue with the way it is scripted. PD does have a faction treasury that they use to pay salaries, meaning if they do not get enough money, officers will not be payed fully. However, the money they get in is nowhere near what the government would realistically budget, especially in a city like Los Santos that should basically be under martial law with the National Guard not a police force. They could not afford to buy weapons normally, and it would be a mess. IRL no officer buys their own weapons. This is a symptom of a much, much larger issue with the in-game economy that can not be fixed overnight and requires a whole new level of depth on the server that is not currently possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
