Police and Server Rules

[Xoza]

On 4/17/2019 at 4:56 PM, Wizzidy said:

I am not sure if I am the only one who feels this way but it kills the fun of the game to have police be so weighted by the rules. They do not have to value lives like cops, they don't have to protect like cops, honestly they are just a government funded gang. I agree there needs to be restrictions empowering the police because they need to get a second player catch-up, but also recently the cop tactics are to go to an armed robbery and run up with no lights or sirens on despite running red lights, and smash into the door of the store locking it in place which is already infuriating because it is unrealistic and feels helpless. Then we have the problem of hostages, right now the cashiers are not considered a life... criminals talk to them, they are allowed to be used to identify us, but the police can barge into 4 armed gunmen with no value for the life. I imagine some restrictions need to happen, them used to make demands can be overwhelming and a nuisance but maybe they should have to wait until the gunmen leave the store to charge with weapons and cars? It has just become too much rule play and trying to win, I see so often police telling us ((its allowed)) without ever even considering, is this fun? No car chases? No speaking or engagement with the police or hostages... the whole situation just needs a second look in my opinion. A couple of my suggestions are:

Make the police value life, but make consequences for using a hostage higher... possibly by making them form a perimeter instead of just running in.  

Make blocking doors explicitly against the rule, we all know that windows and back doors don't work in this game so it is cheese to have it otherwise.

Make police have to make two or three explicit warnings before firing, right now they see a person run when they don't have a gun on them and they pull out guns and start shooting like IA wouldn't murder them for that...

Lastly and this is not a rule restructure it is on us the players, lets remember the game isn't about amassing wealth and winning, it is about having fun and funny and interesting role play experiences, lets stop trying to do the minimum and make the role play better together  

 

I don't know any police who don't naturally value lives, but players are not required to value others lives over their own, shoot or be shot. IRL you are judged the same way.

Gangs participate in illegal activities and are not supported by the government. PD is supported and controlled by the government, we don't get to choose who we follow and don't have the freedom to do whatever we want. 200 vs 8 last I played. We may be the 'largest gang' but we are the enemy to 90% of those people.

Before you judge any group, you should be part of them first. PD has the most required RP than any other group, it's a job that never gets boring but you see a lot of what the server offers in playerbase and RP quality. Some good, a lot really doesn't make sense, unrealistic or poor.

Certain tactics are used to catch and stop criminals from doing what they're doing. If that means blocking doors and firing at a threat to ourselves or others or someone who is not complying when their life is at threat and they are not valuing their own, then it may just happen.

If you truly believe more could have been done, or something was done incorrectly, ask for an file an investigation or file an IA report. Mistakes are made and collateral damage happens even IRL. Investigative RP is fun, but a lot of people don't respond to it. It's actually really disappointing because it can be done in such depth and accuracy and be good RP.

Being diplomatic and cooperative always interests me further than someone going right to OOC. Grab a ride-along one day. You'll see how much RP police do compared to everyone else.

[Spergburger]

15 hours ago, Wizzidy said:

I think you have a massive disillusion about what happens when crimes are committed in the US... how much cops do you watch to imagine that the good guys always win? To put this in perspective in 2017 there were over 300000 armed robberies in the US... and according to the NJRS webpage only 1 in 4 of these is solved. That means the cops should lose roughly 75% of the time... the cops are op, they make the game not fun, and they are using unrealistic tactics and we should appreciate what that means and adjust accordingly.

Most of the ones that aren't solved are because the cops didn't arrive to the scene. You're quoting something about investigations and using it to make an example about fights between gangs and police. There's also tons of other crimes committed in the US besides armed robbery. Generally in real life if the police show up to a scene, especially if they show up with guns loaded ready to fight, you're probably fucked. Police are supposed to be avoided in real life, and people should be more careful about avoiding them on the server, instead of just committing crimes without much thought and then immediately running or shooting at the police when they show up.

[Wizzidy]

57 minutes ago, Spergburger said:

Most of the ones that aren't solved are because the cops didn't arrive to the scene. You're quoting something about investigations and using it to make an example about fights between gangs and police. There's also tons of other crimes committed in the US besides armed robbery. Generally in real life if the police show up to a scene, especially if they show up with guns loaded ready to fight, you're probably fucked. Police are supposed to be avoided in real life, and people should be more careful about avoiding them on the server, instead of just committing crimes without much thought and then immediately running or shooting at the police when they show up.

Yea but right now cops manage to get to the scene despite the power being cut and the owner being held at gunpoint face down on the ground, it also takes 15 minutes to empty a godamned register because it is made to ENCOURAGE the interactions between police and criminals to encourage chases and negotiations, but right now the cops all play to win and trust me I have video of the paramedics showing up and saying it is relatively common for police to show up guns blazing and block exits quietly to get the quick score. They have no accountability and because of that they run wild and are the most dangerous gang on the server... not a policing force.

[Wizzidy]

4 hours ago, Xoza said:

 

I don't know any police who don't naturally value lives, but players are not required to value others lives over their own, shoot or be shot. IRL you are judged the same way.

Gangs participate in illegal activities and are not supported by the government. PD is supported and controlled by the government, we don't get to choose who we follow and don't have the freedom to do whatever we want. 200 vs 8 last I played. We may be the 'largest gang' but we are the enemy to 90% of those people.

Before you judge any group, you should be part of them first. PD has the most required RP than any other group, it's a job that never gets boring but you see a lot of what the server offers in playerbase and RP quality. Some good, a lot really doesn't make sense, unrealistic or poor.

Certain tactics are used to catch and stop criminals from doing what they're doing. If that means blocking doors and firing at a threat to ourselves or others or someone who is not complying when their life is at threat and they are not valuing their own, then it may just happen.

If you truly believe more could have been done, or something was done incorrectly, ask for an file an investigation or file an IA report. Mistakes are made and collateral damage happens even IRL. Investigative RP is fun, but a lot of people don't respond to it. It's actually really disappointing because it can be done in such depth and accuracy and be good RP.

Being diplomatic and cooperative always interests me further than someone going right to OOC. Grab a ride-along one day. You'll see how much RP police do compared to everyone else.

Police are there to protect and serve, they do not have to protect lives over their own, but that is not what is happening. They are literally recklessly endangering the lives of the store clerk and are allowed to do so by rule which has become an overwhelming source of powergaming. Again your experience might be different, but blocking the exit with a car so you can easily kill the people inside is so far beyond non rp it drives me crazy, it breaks so many rules of reality for police, and it is not uncommon. I filed an IA report that has yet to be addressed on a video I took of a cop blocking 3 people into a building and hiding around the corner telling them to drop weapons and come out. Now I understand drop the weapons and come out, but when you have another life on the line you need to respect the potential hostage... or at least the RP of their potentially being one if the criminals call it out. Now after saying that, it gets worse because we cannot get out of the building because his car is in front of the only real exit to the building, and I ask him to move it because we cant get out and he says he wont ooc at this point because its a problem that doesnt exist irl. So once we get the door open enough to get ontop of the car he says hands while we are trying to crouch jump over his car to get out of the building and begins firing his gun killing two of us, the third made it out to put up his hands but lets be honest, does this seem fair or honest gameplay to you. He even snarked that I should remember to tag pistol pete on the report because he knows he wont be punished for his actions, and when the ambulance show up in ooc they said they had similar problems because the cops have no accountability which is why they became a paramedic, cops kill more than they arrest. The fact that every criminal easily survives every encounter because of the stabilizing and rescue RP makes it worse because getting shot in the back 4-5 times doesnt even afford you death after being treated unfairly with next to no role play.  

I get what you are saying, some people want cops to drop guns or make cops less powerful in their armor or have to buy stuff... I just think having them adhere to a little more role play like in my suggestions is a better source of entertainment for both sides, and the only pushback so far has been from the police.

Edited April 20, 2019 by Wizzidy

[Spergburger]

Criminals are shot more often than they're arrested because criminals usually get hostile. Due to the way that prison times are currently worked out on the server a lot of people will shoot cops over minor crimes they're being arrested for since they figure the small amount of time added on to their sentence is worth the risk if the reward is getting away, so they're thinking about prison on an OOC level instead of ICly. People's characters should never want to potentially go to prison for killing a cop, because in real life you'd probably never come back out. How often do you see criminals actually surrender to police on the server? Majority of the time they'll either try to shoot their way out, or run, whether on foot or in a vehicle. That's also why cops often don't allow death RP. People will start shooting and force cops to use lethal force over minor infractions, so that they can be killed and hopefully get out of their prison sentence. It's unrealistic. 

[flow]

5 minutes ago, Wizzidy said:

Police are there to protect and serve, they do not have to protect lives over their own, but that is not what is happening. They are literally recklessly endangering the lives of the store clerk and are allowed to do so by rule which has become an overwhelming source of powergaming. Again your experience might be different, but blocking the exit with a car so you can easily kill the people inside is so far beyond non rp it drives me crazy, it breaks so many rules of reality for police, and it is not uncommon. I filed an IA report that has yet to be addressed on a video I took of a cop blocking 3 people into a building and hiding around the corner telling them to drop weapons and come out. Now I understand drop the weapons and come out, but when you have another life on the line you need to respect the potential hostage... or at least the RP of their potentially being one if the criminals call it out. Now after saying that it gets worse because we cannot get out of the building because his car is in front of the only real exit to the building, and I ask him to move it because we cant get out and he says he wont ooc at this point because its a problem that doesnt exist irl. So once we get the door open enough to get ontop of the car he says hands while we are trying to crouch jump over his car to get out of the building and begins firing his gun killing two of us, the third made it out to put up his hands but lets be honest, does this seem fair or honest gameplay to you. He even snarked that I should remember to tag pistol pete on the report because he knows he wont be punished for his actions, and when the ambulance show up in ooc they said they had similar problems because the cops have no accountability which is why they became a paramedic, cops kill more than they arrest. The fact that every criminal easily survives every encounter because of the stabilizing and rescue RP makes it worse because getting shot in the back 4-5 times doesnt even afford you death after being treated unfairly with next to no role play.  

You have had an incident where you believe you were treated unfairly. And you say you have reported it. Why do you not wait for the outcome of it and just sit it out, let IA do their job and investigate it? Why do you feel the need to come on here and bash an entire faction and its members over an incident you had? Do you not see anything wrong with what you're doing? Even if you had an issue that was legitimately against the rules and protocols, that does not reflect the entire department like you're making it out to be. Wait for your report to be concluded.

I can guarantee you that we are held to very high standards. PD has everyone breathing down their neck at all times. You don't see any PD members coming on the forums making 5 topics a day about how bad the gangs are and bad their roleplay is. 

 

https://imgur.com/a/UhS7jrS

There are 30 different protocols we have to follow. All of these far exceed any and all server rules. No other faction, apart from MD, has anything alike. You are complaining about an isolated case and because that happened, suddenly everything is bad and we need to throw it all out the window. 

 

 

[Wizzidy]

12 hours ago, flow said:

You are very wrong about that. We are in chases more often than I can count. And that has always been and will always be a daily occurrence. While you might have had a bad experience it does not mean that there is anything majorly wrong with the PD. We give you the tools to report any and all PD members for anything you deem misconduct. You complained that the report form is too much to fill out. Well, we are sorry that we require a lot of detail. We do this because we take it seriously, we investigate all reports fully and then come to a conclusion. In order for that to be as beneficial to your claims as possible, we need all of the information we can get. 

This thread had potential to go somewhere and be a constructive discussion but it has once again been derailed by people who refuse to see any other point than their own.

I will say one last thing for everyone who believes the PD is corrupt, power-hungry and plays to win. If the PD had only the server rules to follow, like all of you, and not the internal protocols, you would be back on here asking for the old way back. The reason you're not being arrested for Murder while only speeding is not the server rules but our internal regulations and protocols. If we were only bound to the server rules like everyone else, I promise you would not be happy. 

There is some fairness in this, PD does obey more than the server rules, but they are also emboldened by the server rules, they are intentionally given the option to nonrp because they dont count the NPC as a living being but as a criminal we have to role play cctv(closed circuit television) being backed up to a cloud.... gloves, changing clothes when clothing costs money because it is buggy, and we are restricted by the pacing of the money. I agree there are a great number of criminals that play to win and I hate it, but that is a fight I don't know if I can fix... there are too many of them and the largest offenders refuse to admit culpability. The PD is play to win and corrupt.... sorry if you believe otherwise but you are not the only member of the PD and it is not my "bad experience" it is every experience, and the experience of others, hence the many many many comments on this page. This is not about making the police weaker by hurting their gear, police having good cars vests and guns is to me 100% normal, they should... letting them ignore lives and approach every robbery like they are rambo I do not agree with. I will see how this IA report goes but this should be a discussion and I think we could all agree on that. Blocking doors and ignoring lives? Does that enrich roleplay for anyone?

[Wizzidy]

3 hours ago, flow said:

You have had an incident where you believe you were treated unfairly. And you say you have reported it. Why do you not wait for the outcome of it and just sit it out, let IA do their job and investigate it? Why do you feel the need to come on here and bash an entire faction and its members over an incident you had? Do you not see anything wrong with what you're doing? Even if you had an issue that was legitimately against the rules and protocols, that does not reflect the entire department like you're making it out to be. Wait for your report to be concluded.

I can guarantee you that we are held to very high standards. PD has everyone breathing down their neck at all times. You don't see any PD members coming on the forums making 5 topics a day about how bad the gangs are and bad their roleplay is. 

 

https://imgur.com/a/UhS7jrS

There are 30 different protocols we have to follow. All of these far exceed any and all server rules. No other faction, apart from MD, has anything alike. You are complaining about an isolated case and because that happened, suddenly everything is bad and we need to throw it all out the window. 

 

 

 Because it is not the incident, I am attempting to change something I see wrong. I am not even a big robbery guy, this barely affects me but I see a problem that took what could have been a fun and interesting role play session with the police and turned into borderline dming because they pushed the limits of what is allowed. I believe it needs to be discussed... npcs can't be used as hostages, I agree that would get nasty, but the police should also have to respect them as lives and keep a distance until they know the gun is off the victim, NPC or otherwise. This isn't an attack defense post, it is a suggestion, where I ask for a change I think would help the server and plead with police and criminals alike to work on this...

[TheWanderersWay]

9 hours ago, Xoza said:

 

Being diplomatic and cooperative always interests me further than someone going right to OOC. Grab a ride-along one day. You'll see how much RP police do compared to everyone else.

Too bad I can't get a ride-along because I have committed crimes in the past XD

[Copes]

On 4/17/2019 at 8:11 PM, Copperhorse said:

LSPD should have a treasury like the rest of us and have to actually buy pistols shotguns armor etc.

Massive +1

[Sauer Stein]

On 4/17/2019 at 6:11 PM, Copperhorse said:

Cops are already gods and they only keep getting stronger. Biggest gang in the city with no accountability because they have unlimited funding for weapons and armor and don't give a damn if they die because when they respawn their faction treasury looks exactly the same. LSPD should have a treasury like the rest of us and have to actually buy pistols shotguns armor etc.

+1 Also make cops drop their stuff on death (i.e. weapon/radio etc)

[Victor Einhart]

22 hours ago, Wizzidy said:

cops should lose roughly 75% of the time

In my experience that's about true.  Most of the time we'll get to a scene and it's too late.

[Knoxi]

1 hour ago, Wizzidy said:

I am attempting to change something I see wrong.

Again, post these kinds of concerns here... https://gov.eclipse-rp.net/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=3259

Bottom line, if you have not been in the faction, you don't know how we operate. You don't know our protocol. You don't know how seriously we take play-to-win attitudes.

People are trying to help explain how you can change something, so please do so in the means we've already put in place.

When it comes to the current rules and scripting, we work with them as best as we can to give players a fair playing field. Yes IRL it would not take 15 minutes to take $4000 from a cash register, because IRL a register isn't going to have more than $100. If police rolled up and blocked the front door, easily the same could be done at the back door. Yes I agree perhaps some rules should be amended, but as it is right now with the current scripting, we do everything we can to make it fair for everyone.

Moving on.

On the topic about police valuing their lives, they do. If someone is breaking that rule then report them. Because of scripting reasons, you still carry your personal pistol on you. So that means if I die on duty, I respawn at the hospital with no personal weapon anymore, I lose anything else that was in my inventory, be that my radio, a cheeseburger or clothes.

About adding pistols and armour to the treasury, yeah you could, but the economy is already so out of balance it would be impossible to figure out. IRL officers don't die in the field on a regular basis, the budget normally spent on guns and armour would be at least 10x an IRL police force of an equivalent size. On this server a police force can be wiped out, there is no army, or national guard to respond as they would IRL in some of these cases.

About police dropping weapons, that would create a huge incentive to start hunting officers for weapons. I don't agree with it mainly because eclipse does not have solid enough rules surrounding how heavy this server is supposed to be on roleplay.

In all honesty, I don't see how adding that to the budget would change how officers value their own lives as they already do.

The police are not meant to be a force that can be easily overthrown, or casually shot, or killed on a regular basis. We are not NPC police in GTA single player/online, we are here to RP. If you feel someone is below a standard, feel free to report them to us directly, this way we can be sure that the officer(s) in question do not repeat the same mistake over again.

[Wizzidy]

1 hour ago, Knoxi said:

Again, post these kinds of concerns here... https://gov.eclipse-rp.net/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=3259

Bottom line, if you have not been in the faction, you don't know how we operate. You don't know our protocol. You don't know how seriously we take play-to-win attitudes.

People are trying to help explain how you can change something, so please do so in the means we've already put in place.

When it comes to the current rules and scripting, we work with them as best as we can to give players a fair playing field. Yes IRL it would not take 15 minutes to take $4000 from a cash register, because IRL a register isn't going to have more than $100. If police rolled up and blocked the front door, easily the same could be done at the back door. Yes I agree perhaps some rules should be amended, but as it is right now with the current scripting, we do everything we can to make it fair for everyone.

Moving on.

On the topic about police valuing their lives, they do. If someone is breaking that rule then report them. Because of scripting reasons, you still carry your personal pistol on you. So that means if I die on duty, I respawn at the hospital with no personal weapon anymore, I lose anything else that was in my inventory, be that my radio, a cheeseburger or clothes.
 
About adding pistols and armour to the treasury, yeah you could, but the economy is already so out of balance it would be impossible to figure out. IRL officers don't die in the field on a regular basis, the budget normally spent on guns and armour would be at least 10x an IRL police force of an equivalent size. On this server a police force can be wiped out, there is no army, or national guard to respond as they would IRL in some of these cases.

About police dropping weapons, that would create a huge incentive to start hunting officers for weapons. I don't agree with it mainly because eclipse does not have solid enough rules surrounding how heavy this server is supposed to be on roleplay.

In all honesty, I don't see how adding that to the budget would change how officers value their own lives as they already do.

The police are not meant to be a force that can be easily overthrown, or casually shot, or killed on a regular basis. We are not NPC police in GTA single player/online, we are here to RP. If you feel someone is below a standard, feel free to report them to us directly, this way we can be sure that the officer(s) in question do not repeat the same mistake over again.

I truly appreciate that you believe this can be fixed by your in game policies, however is is a common and recurring problem that is so bad mentioning it at the bank in ooc would yield waves of people sharing their abuse experiences that can be fixed with server rule changes more efficiently. This has been reported many times to no avail and while your faith in the system is admirable it is a bit ridiculous to expect an entire community to share your trust. I see a problem with the way police (and criminals) approach npc life and the way the legalities of door scripting work and offered alternatives, you are free to offer an opinion but my suggestion remains that this should be handled with a modification to server rules to make certain things more realistic for all players. Thank you for your input though.

Edit: Note that I never said anything about guns or money, and have actively discouraged this kind of suggestion as it leans towards more shooting, I think police and criminals should more commonly be discussing things before the chase begins as a life hangs in the balance and current rules do not respect them as such.

Edited April 21, 2019 by Wizzidy

[Knoxi]

31 minutes ago, Wizzidy said:

I see a problem with the way police (and criminals) approach npc life and the way the legalities of door scripting work and offered alternatives, you are free to offer an opinion but my suggestion remains that this should be handled with a modification to server rules to make certain things more realistic for all players.

https://forum.eclipse-rp.net/forum/7-server-suggestions/

Here is a link to server suggestions.
 

45 minutes ago, Wizzidy said:

This has been reported many times to no avail and while your faith in the system is admirable it is a bit ridiculous to expect an entire community to share your trust.

What, reported where? Anything reported to the LSPD is investigated and handled accordingly. If people keep coming on here and making discussions about things without knowing the full context of how it works, most people in the community will jump on the bandwagon as they themselves are also likely unaware. So to fix this, we ask people to report things in the manner we can handle them, this way we can get everyone on the right page.

32 minutes ago, Wizzidy said:

I think police and criminals should more commonly be discussing things before the chase begins as a life hangs in the balance and current rules do not respect them as such.

Yes, NPC's should be considered a person, current rules do not say they are, please post a suggestion in the right area if you would like to see that changed. But other than that, if you want a police chase, go on a police chase. In the mean time, instead of waiting in the store for them to show up, have someone keep an eye out or better yet, pretend to be just leaving as they get there.

[alexalex303]

I think that some of the points raised in this topic are quite ironic.

The issue raised by OP is that law enforcement has a "play to win" attitude, and does not want to lose, because they do not treat an NPC as a real person that might be injured. As far as I know, currently NPCs are not treated as real people by anyone, and if you want to do advanced RP with a cashier, you can request an admin to take it's place.

The problem is that the flip side is never considered. What is your complaint really? The fact that you dislike that when you take hostage a defenseless NPC, that will never try to run, escape, or do anything, it does not mean that you automatically win the situation. That is a problem?

I've been with the department for a good amount of time now, and I can tell you for a fact that when people have a real hostage (a player) it gets treated very seriously, and out of five or so hostage situations I was personally involved in, in four of them the hostage takes got away with the cash, and were never caught. The only one that I can recall in which the hostage takes were killed/captured was when they decided to take a hostage on top of a crane.

However, you never considered the flipside. How many times has it happened that cops are arresting someone's very good friend/brother, and then you have the rest of his gang shoot up the scene with AKs, and ram cops with heavy vehicles. Why is that alright? How is starting a shootout, with the person that you're trying to save in the middle, not playing to win, and very unrealistic?

If you really want the RP standard that you're preaching, it has to be two-ways.

Edited April 21, 2019 by alexalex303

[Wizzidy]

4 hours ago, alexalex303 said:

I think that some of the points raised in this topic are quite ironic.

The issue raised by OP is that law enforcement has a "play to win" attitude, and does not want to lose, because they do not treat an NPC as a real person that might be injured. As far as I know, currently NPCs are not treated as real people by anyone, and if you want to do advanced RP with a cashier, you can request an admin to take it's place.

The problem is that the flip side is never considered. What is your complaint really? The fact that you dislike that when you take hostage a defenseless NPC, that will never try to run, escape, or do anything, it does not mean that you automatically win the situation. That is a problem?

I've been with the department for a good amount of time now, and I can tell you for a fact that when people have a real hostage (a player) it gets treated very seriously, and out of five or so hostage situations I was personally involved in, in four of them the hostage takes got away with the cash, and were never caught. The only one that I can recall in which the hostage takes were killed/captured was when they decided to take a hostage on top of a crane.

 However, you never considered the flipside. How many times has it happened that cops are arresting someone's very good friend/brother, and then you have the rest of his gang shoot up the scene with AKs, and ram cops with heavy vehicles. Why is that alright? How is starting a shootout, with the person that you're trying to save in the middle, not playing to win, and very unrealistic?

If you really want the RP standard that you're preaching, it has to be two-ways.

You may not have been paying attention for the entire post but my argument is that it should work both ways. I should not have to wait for an admin to be online and available to RP a hostage when all I want is for cops to not shove their cars against the only viable game exit and shoot into the building. Do I think criminals do it better? No, god criminal RP is so horrible most of the time, but I personally do all I am supposed to. I rp gearing up, the plans, I rp taking the wallet and talking to him about his family, yes I do advanced RP with the NPC because we are robbing him, and yes cops should be expected to honor that commitment. Also are you really going to say that the police should not be held to a higher standard? Look I imagine as an officer you have many complaints for criminals, from my side I don't see it so that is something you would make your own suggestion about and come up with possible solutions, but this is a discussion and suggestion I raised about how MANY(not all)cops ruin the realism of MY personal RP scenarios and a suggestion on possible fixes, none of which require that much movement on the part of the police, I don't think waiting for the robbers to leave the building is a huge ask... I dont think calling for a little respect for the NPC's life that I have been role playing with for the past 15 minutes before the cop showed up is too much to ask, and I certainly don't think that having an open discussion without it being considered "ironic" because you do not agree is too much to ask. I appreciate your input but a if you want to compare a cop arresting somone and their friend smashing into you with a car... you can report it to support and they face a ban... which you cannot do for a cop because the rules currently enforce their behavior by making the NPC ignored as a life.

[Wizzidy]

5 hours ago, Knoxi said:

https://forum.eclipse-rp.net/forum/7-server-suggestions/

Here is a link to server suggestions.
 

What, reported where? Anything reported to the LSPD is investigated and handled accordingly. If people keep coming on here and making discussions about things without knowing the full context of how it works, most people in the community will jump on the bandwagon as they themselves are also likely unaware. So to fix this, we ask people to report things in the manner we can handle them, this way we can get everyone on the right page.

Yes, NPC's should be considered a person, current rules do not say they are, please post a suggestion in the right area if you would like to see that changed. But other than that, if you want a police chase, go on a police chase. In the mean time, instead of waiting in the store for them to show up, have someone keep an eye out or better yet, pretend to be just leaving as they get there.

I did post this in suggestions and for some reason unknown to me it was moved here. If you note everyone in the post was commenting, +1 that is because the original location for this post was suggestions, right next to my post for clothing presets... In fact it would be nice if a moderator could get this moved back to the previous location... It has been reported to LSPD IA which sends a private message, I myself posted one recently and haven't gotten a response in about a week, but ill give it a couple days, the other two I am talking about were posted nearly a month ago. So no I don't trust your IA to take care of this, it should be a server rule like all of the things criminals have to adhere to or face discipline in the form of an admin log...

Edited April 21, 2019 by Wizzidy

[Knoxi]

9 hours ago, Wizzidy said:

So no I don't trust your IA to take care of this, it should be a server rule like all of the things criminals have to adhere to or face discipline in the form of an admin log... 

I'm not really sure what's going on now, I think there are several topics to this that have gotten jumbled up.

In all honesty, it sounds like you have been the brunt of a few poorly handled and executed scenes, the PD makes things fair enough for everyone, I don't really support more rules against the PD when we already do everything we can to make a fair playing field. The PD preaches heavy RP, we're always one step above everyone else as we hold the standard for the rest of the community, if you feel someone is below our RP standard, report them to us.

 

[Sauer Stein]

10 hours ago, Wizzidy said:

I did post this in suggestions and for some reason unknown to me it was moved here. If you note everyone in the post was commenting, +1 that is because the original location for this post was suggestions, right next to my post for clothing presets... In fact it would be nice if a moderator could get this moved back to the previous location... It has been reported to LSPD IA which sends a private message, I myself posted one recently and haven't gotten a response in about a week, but ill give it a couple days, the other two I am talking about were posted nearly a month ago. So no I don't trust your IA to take care of this, it should be a server rule like all of the things criminals have to adhere to or face discipline in the form of an admin log...

+1 I also don't trust IA.

[Knoxi]

3 minutes ago, Sauer Stein said:

+1 I also don't trust IA. 

Holy toledo, I don't think what I am explaining is getting across.

[Sauer Stein]

3 minutes ago, Knoxi said:

Holy toledo, I don't think what I am explaining is getting across.

Probably not. But we're also talking about unrealistic ratios of police:civilians - Los Angeles for example has 387 civilians per police officer. The server has a much higher ratio of officers:civs/crims. Also; average response time for an event in LA is a little over 5 minutes. I don't know what city you'd rather compare Los Santos to, but just saying that police have a large advantage compared to real life, and they need to be nerfed or changed a bit somehow.

[Knoxi]

2 minutes ago, Sauer Stein said:

Probably not. But we're also talking about unrealistic ratios of police:civilians - Los Angeles for example has 387 civilians per police officer. The server has a much higher ratio of officers:civs/crims. Also; average response time for an event in LA is a little over 5 minutes. I don't know what city you'd rather compare Los Santos to, but just saying that police have a large advantage compared to real life, and they need to be nerfed or changed a bit somehow.

Yes, and not every one of those 387 people are committing crimes on a regular basis... It does take time to get to a scene, be that a minute or ten, or calls go unanswered because we simply do not have enough units to cover everything that goes on in the city.

The police are already wiped out on a somewhat regular basis because criminals join up against the police.

Nerf the police for what? I already stated we make things as fair as possible. We could just go back and give every officer a carbine and say, "only follow server rules" and let me know how much better that will be.

You can't compare Eclipse to IRL when a large majority of the civilians play it as structured GTA:Online. We have to do what we can until everyone is up to the same standard.

This has to stop being a Police VS. Community thing, we're all here to RP. I have already stressed it enough if someone is not living up to our standard, we can fix that by getting them reported to us through IA.

[Bala]

On 4/17/2019 at 11:56 PM, Wizzidy said:

I am not sure if I am the only one who feels this way but it kills the fun of the game to have police be so weighted by the rules. They do not have to value lives like cops, they don't have to protect like cops, honestly they are just a government funded gang. I agree there needs to be restrictions empowering the police because they need to get a second player catch-up, but also recently the cop tactics are to go to an armed robbery and run up with no lights or sirens on despite running red lights, and smash into the door of the store locking it in place which is already infuriating because it is unrealistic and feels helpless. Then we have the problem of hostages, right now the cashiers are not considered a life... criminals talk to them, they are allowed to be used to identify us, but the police can barge into 4 armed gunmen with no value for the life. I imagine some restrictions need to happen, them used to make demands can be overwhelming and a nuisance but maybe they should have to wait until the gunmen leave the store to charge with weapons and cars? It has just become too much rule play and trying to win, I see so often police telling us ((its allowed)) without ever even considering, is this fun? No car chases? No speaking or engagement with the police or hostages... the whole situation just needs a second look in my opinion. A couple of my suggestions are:

Make the police value life, but make consequences for using a hostage higher... possibly by making them form a perimeter instead of just running in.  

Make blocking doors explicitly against the rule, we all know that windows and back doors don't work in this game so it is cheese to have it otherwise.

Make police have to make two or three explicit warnings before firing, right now they see a person run when they don't have a gun on them and they pull out guns and start shooting like IA wouldn't murder them for that...

Lastly and this is not a rule restructure it is on us the players, lets remember the game isn't about amassing wealth and winning, it is about having fun and funny and interesting role play experiences, lets stop trying to do the minimum and make the role play better together  

Kills the fun of the game when all the criminal factions are ALLIED with one another.

As for armed robberies, you are holding a store owner up and stealing the money. That's YOUR choice. You are robbing someone and threatening their life in the process but you are complaining that we will use the wrath of god to bring you to justice so that you don't get away with it? Come on bro. That's like the people complaining about the speeding tickets, no one is forcing you to go over the speed limit or so far over the limit that you get a jail sentence.

The role of a criminal at their most basic is to commit crimes to profit and evade capture from the authorities.
The role of a police officer is protect innocents and bring those that commit crime to justice.

You talk about blocking doors, why don't you have a look-out outside or a getaway driver?

Police have the force matrix and we're not allowed to be corrupt IC or OOC without OOC authorisation and for good reason.

[Wizzidy]

37 minutes ago, GOAT said:

Kills the fun of the game when all the criminal factions are ALLIED with one another.

As for armed robberies, you are holding a store owner up and stealing the money. That's YOUR choice. You are robbing someone and threatening their life in the process but you are complaining that we will use the wrath of god to bring you to justice so that you don't get away with it? Come on bro. That's like the people complaining about the speeding tickets, no one is forcing you to go over the speed limit or so far over the limit that you get a jail sentence.

The role of a criminal at their most basic is to commit crimes to profit and evade capture from the authorities.
The role of a police officer is protect innocents and bring those that commit crime to justice.

You talk about blocking doors, why don't you have a look-out outside or a getaway driver?

Police have the force matrix and we're not allowed to be corrupt IC or OOC without OOC authorisation and for good reason.

See this is exactly the mentality I am talking about. You see it as a way to win, that you SHOULD be victorious by ANY means necessary without thinking about RP. Ultimately an hour in jail and some cash doesnt affect me, but let me ask you something, how does a get away drive change them blocking the door?  If you can't get to the getaway driver, it serves no purpose.... and let me remind you that you just admitted I am robbing SOMONE, not an NPC, that is what I am trying to change, right now police see people robbing a store, not robbing a person, and somebody else said "npcs can't fight back so they shouldnt be considered" I am sorry but on this server when you have a gun to your head everyone can't fight back BY SERVER RULES. So if this is the case why do the police not have rules outside of their own IC policies that dictate behavior. I appreciate the IA and the codes and ethics they try to put in place but many police ignore them because they have no recourse for those actions...