PD's Holding cell RP

[Smoke1]

So the other day I was pulled over and asked to get out of the vehicle for crossing a yellow line not complaining about this i'm not even complaining about the fact that they had the road already spiked before I drove away and rammed my car to catch fire costing me 7k in repairs, The thing that I feel really needs to change here  is the wait time between being arrested and starting your jail time going to Mission Row or example I was on my leo character yesterday and people sat in a bus for a good 40 minutes before they were taken to start their time this is not fair by any means!!! and should change
Waiting in a holding cell serves 0 purpose except a loophole to screw you around or because pd doesn't want to drive you to doc the fact that people wait 40 plus minutes before their charges start isn't acceptable.  I feel it should change you can do your investigations after the person's in jail you don't need to keep them in a holding cell. I understand the argument from Leo's standpoint is we need to investigate to see if we need to add anymore charges but I feel it's just becoming a bit over the top we're going to jail, the extra charges are not needed by any means. We don't need to spend an extra 40+ minutes on top of our 2-3 hours in jail. I feel we need to stop doing this as well as lower max j-time no one wants to sit in jail for 3 hours ever j-time should be 1 hour max, and if you disagree i challenge you to make an alt commit crimes so pd charge stack you an sit there for 3 hours an tell me you've had fun and enjoyed your rp experience.

[Toxine]

First, I agree with the wait time at Mission Row. As soon as you get put into any kind of holding cell, whether its DOC or Mission Row, your timer should start. So if they wanna keep you there for 1 hour, let them do it, but it wont add to your sentence. 

Regarding lowering the max jail sentence, I only have a crim char, and I don't think having a max 1 year/hour sentence isn't realistic at all. Especially with the diamond membership, that's just ridiculous. 

Keeping the max jail time at 3-4 hours I think it's more than fair. There should be consequences to your actions. 
But on the same note, there should be consequences for PD as well. 

[alexalex303]

Full transparency I'm the person that was involved in the situation today.

I think the main point to consider here is that law enforcement roleplayers are people too, and there's a lot of factors that go into an arrest; it's relatively easy to say "just place the charges", but the fact of the matter is that law enforcement characters answer for their charges, and the paperwork (which is mandatory) and your items in your locker, and your mugshot.. and at the end of it its a checklist. 

If you want there to be zero time at Mission Row, then you also have to drop arrest reports and the court system, recovering your items and so on. Otherwise you're asking people to be robots, I think.

[Smoke1]

nah it wasn't a shot at you alex, it's just sitting down inside a holding cell or prison with 3 total things to do for 1+ hours isnt fun for anyone inside lol. 

4 hours bro i feel there is no positive outcome of that rp to anyone on server, we all here to have fun. you do a crime you do the time. BUT 3-4 IRL hours sitting in doc is way to much. esp for people who work or maybe have kids an only get a few hours a day or week to play. 

Edited October 13, 2024 by Smoke1

[Victor Einhart]

I arrive on scene.

5 people are alive and allegedly involved.

That means 5 different narratives that have to be established of what each person did in order to get the correct charges placed on them.

None of the officers on scene has the complete picture from start to finish. That means I have to piece this together from a variety of sources on scene. For each person involved, because without that we can't place the correct charges.

What did each person do? What is the timeline of events? What events are criminal, and what events aren't - and what charges apply to each event?

Why are people hanging around the scene? Now I have to assign people to make sure they don't try to mess with the investigation.

People need medical attention. Gotta assign people to that.

Who took items off this person? That person?

An officer was injured, so I need to get their part of the story. They can't talk to me when they're injured, so it'll take some time to get that narrative.

Now I find out there's a 6th person involved that nobody told me about.

And they also need medical treatment. Great.

The original narrative I heard now doesn't make sense because of this 6th person.

Now I need to piece things together again.

Somebody is now jumping over the barriers and causing a ruckus. Now we've got a 7th person we're arresting. Now I have to figure out yet another narrative to make sure this person is charged correctly.

An officer needs to log off and is asking to leave. Do they know something that I need to know in order to piece this together? Do they have items that need to be put away?

Now there's a bunch of same-colored cars circling the scene and talking on their radios that I have to worry about.

People are now screaming to hurry up. I can't hear people trying to report what happened, so I have to ask them to repeat themselves.

This is just a relatively simple scene.

Do you see now how things get complicated? It isn't easy. Especially when people are being uncooperative, roleplaying resistance to officers, telling me to kill myself and hurling the usual insults, etc. And this isn't even scratching the surface of people lying, trying to mislead me, or simply being plain wrong about what happened which makes the process take even longer trying to get to the bottom of things.

Edited October 14, 2024 by Victor Einhart

[THNDR]

I was involved in an earlier situation where we had to house a few suspects for quite some time at Mission Row. This was however not due to incompetency on our end, but due to their allies that were outside, circling and waiting for us to transport. 

This is the most common reason that I have seen for keeping people at Mission Row. As Steel mentioned, could also be a case of investigations / something administrative. 

[Smoke1]

1 hour ago, Victor Einhart said:

I arrive on scene.

5 people are alive and allegedly involved.

That means 5 different narratives that have to be established of what each person did in order to get the correct charges placed on them.

None of the officers on scene has the complete picture from start to finish. That means I have to piece this together from a variety of sources on scene. For each person involved, because without that we can't place the correct charges.

What did each person do? What is the timeline of events? What events are criminal, and what events aren't - and what charges apply to each event?

Why are people hanging around the scene? Now I have to assign people to make sure they don't try to mess with the investigation.

People need medical attention. Gotta assign people to that.

Who took items off this person? That person?

An officer was injured, so I need to get their part of the story. They can't talk to me when they're injured, so it'll take some time to get that narrative.

Now I find out there's a 6th person involved that nobody told me about.

And they also need medical treatment. Great.

The original narrative I heard now doesn't make sense because of this 6th person.

Now I need to piece things together again.

Somebody is now jumping over the barriers and causing a ruckus. Now we've got a 7th person we're arresting. Now I have to figure out yet another narrative to make sure this person is charged correctly.

An officer needs to log off and is asking to leave. Do they know something that I need to know in order to piece this together? Do they have items that need to be put away?

Now there's a bunch of same-colored cars circling the scene and talking on their radios that I have to worry about.

People are now screaming to hurry up. I can't hear people trying to report what happened, so I have to ask them to repeat themselves.

This is just a relatively simple scene.

Do you see now how things get complicated? It isn't easy. Especially when people are being uncooperative, roleplaying resistance to officers, telling me to kill myself and hurling the usual insults, etc. And this isn't even scratching the surface of people lying or trying to mislead me, which makes the process take even longer trying to get to the bottom of things.

yea toatlly it can get quite out of hand for sure, it just sucks for the people waiting. My SD character sees it daily.. but waiting forets say 40+min for an investigation plus 3 hours im jail you can understand how that sucks beyond suck

Edited October 13, 2024 by Smoke1

[Requiem]

2 hours ago, Smoke1 said:

4 hours bro i feel there is no positive outcome of that rp to anyone on server, we all here to have fun. you do a crime you do the time. BUT 3-4 IRL hours sitting in doc is way to much. esp for people who work or maybe have kids an only get a few hours a day or week to play. 

Having people sit in a cell waiting for transport is not a thing that happens consistently, only in extreme cases. As for the current jail time caps, they have already been lowered multiple times and devs also have made it so all time can tick down while logged out except for the last hour of jail time. So for those people who only get to play a few hours a week, they can just log out and their time will go down and they can serve that last hour max you are suggesting. Additionally, no one is forcing criminals to afk in DOC. You are free to still do the activities inside the prison or roleplay with others. Its not all solitary confinement where you are restricted from playing or interacting with others. 

[Smoke1]

Just happened to me 20 min because I evaded, also there is a cap on how much it ticks off oocly after a specific time frame it stops

2 minutes ago, Requiem said:

Having people sit in a cell waiting for transport is not a thing that happens consistently, only in extreme cases. As for the current jail time caps, they have already been lowered multiple times and devs also have made it so all time can tick down while logged out except for the last hour of jail time. So for those people who only get to play a few hours a week, they can just log out and their time will go down and they can serve that last hour max you are suggesting. Additionally, no one is forcing criminals to afk in DOC. You are free to still do the activities inside the prison or roleplay with others. Its not all solitary confinement where you are restricted from playing or interacting with others. 

 

Edited October 13, 2024 by Smoke1

[SkyeFuryy]

I think this is quite unfair to say: "but waiting forets say 40+min for an investigation plus 3 hours im jail you can understand how that sucks beyond suck". 

I am primarily a LEO, Louise Hoffman for those who know me, besides from the above stated that it takes time and work to sort out charges etc, I think it is really selfish to be asking us to drop our roleplay for the convenience of time. I personally enjoy working through the details, and I always try and be as fair as possible to our crim roleplayers, which means I'm not rushing to place charges for the sake of getting it done quickly. My roleplay on this server is investigating crimes that crims do. And I enjoy that roleplay. You asking us to rush that for your convenience is quite unjust and unfair, IMO. 

So when you deem it unreasonable and unjust to keep you waiting on a bus etc, you commited the crime first and foremost. Our roleplay as LEO's is dependant on you guys doing crime. We can't forecast the crime, we can only wait. So when you do commit the crime, just know that there are some LEO's who enjoy the role that we do have, and we enjoy investigating, we enjoy getting to the bottom of it. etc. 

I can't speak for everyone, but we don't keep you waiting in cells or on buses as punishment. There is a lot going on in the background, but it is never malicious. If you can't do the time, don't commit the crime. Maybe that means don't get caught, maybe that means be smarter, whatever. But don't take away from our roleplay because it's an inconvenience to you.

I don't mean to sound harsh, I just needed to get my point across as a LEO who enjoys the LEO roleplay.

 

[Smoke1]

I am not complaining about this or salty that it happens I just would like to see it become better, there's 3 things to do in doc that's it, poker was taken away there laundry, trash, ore, anyways 3 hour's being in doc sucks especially when you have spent 20-50 minutes pre jail waiting for leo RP, I always feel terrible for people when they are in my car waiting for all the stuff to be sorted.

Lets say your a criminal and you for example evade with a gun, you at the minimum get 

VF01 - Evading an Officer

VC05 - Improper Traffic Maneuvers

GM04 - Resisting Arrest

GM19 - Face Concealment (b)

WM02 - Possession of a Class 1 Firearm 

Now with Real money Diamond VIP 2500 credits a month 25 euro im canadian so thats $37 dollars a month and i got 75 minutes in jail plus 20 min in a holding cell because they didn't want to drive me. 95 min plus my niobe zerod out because the PD decided to ram it until it caught fire instead of a chase, i was pre spiked before i was even asked to step out of the car. Then told i shouldn't be in a niobe an drive a elergy retro.

Now to repair this car is 7k the fines were 4800. With all this being said I'm not mad or upset about any of this. This has become a such a common thing and the mentality needs to change OR the waiting/j-time does in my humble opinion. As a Member of SD i am very aware of all these factors and try to play as fair as i can, I am not saying others don't play fair i understand both sides, but from a community standpoint as a WHOLE i don't see how holding cells plus 3 hours in jail if you don't pay real money gives anyone a positive experience. 

[Smoke1]

5 minutes ago, SkyeFuryy said:

I think this is quite unfair to say: "but waiting forets say 40+min for an investigation plus 3 hours im jail you can understand how that sucks beyond suck". 

I am primarily a LEO, Louise Hoffman for those who know me, besides from the above stated that it takes time and work to sort out charges etc, I think it is really selfish to be asking us to drop our roleplay for the convenience of time. I personally enjoy working through the details, and I always try and be as fair as possible to our crim roleplayers, which means I'm not rushing to place charges for the sake of getting it done quickly. My roleplay on this server is investigating crimes that crims do. And I enjoy that roleplay. You asking us to rush that for your convenience is quite unjust and unfair, IMO. 

So when you deem it unreasonable and unjust to keep you waiting on a bus etc, you commited the crime first and foremost. Our roleplay as LEO's is dependant on you guys doing crime. We can't forecast the crime, we can only wait. So when you do commit the crime, just know that there are some LEO's who enjoy the role that we do have, and we enjoy investigating, we enjoy getting to the bottom of it. etc. 

I can't speak for everyone, but we don't keep you waiting in cells or on buses as punishment. There is a lot going on in the background, but it is never malicious. If you can't do the time, don't commit the crime. Maybe that means don't get caught, maybe that means be smarter, whatever. But don't take away from our roleplay because it's an inconvenience to you.

I don't mean to sound harsh, I just needed to get my point across as a LEO who enjoys the LEO roleplay.

 

I completely understand this and I totally appreciate This is the game experience that you like and enjoy and I'm not trying to blame anyone or say anyone's at fault i'm simply just trying to say when you flip the coin to the other side is people spending 3 plus hours unable to do much or do 3 activities and That playing experience is pretty lame.

[Smoke1]

2 hours ago, alexalex303 said:

Full transparency I'm the person that was involved in the situation today.

I think the main point to consider here is that law enforcement roleplayers are people too, and there's a lot of factors that go into an arrest; it's relatively easy to say "just place the charges", but the fact of the matter is that law enforcement characters answer for their charges, and the paperwork (which is mandatory) and your items in your locker, and your mugshot.. and at the end of it its a checklist. 

If you want there to be zero time at Mission Row, then you also have to drop arrest reports and the court system, recovering your items and so on. Otherwise you're asking people to be robots, I think.

I don't agree Im in SD and i do my paperwork after i've processed the people, so they aren't waiting for me Ive never brought anyone back to sandy or paleto to do my paperwork on there J-time

[Demonmit1]

the problem isnt hours in prison takes away from the fun of playing a video game. having to spend hours in prison is a problem cause there's nothing to do. it wouldnt be a complaint if there was interesting and fun things to actively participate in at DOC. 

the entirety of DOC RP is, you fight other inmates for stamps, or you do laundry for stamps and then people fight you for them. theres nothing interesting about that gameplay loop.

the waiting sucks a bit, but you should also be interacting with and talking with the officers to pass time while waiting for charges.

if DOC was revamped to have interesting things to do, people wouldnt complain about how long they have to be there.

Edited October 13, 2024 by Demonmit1

[Spizor]

3 hours ago, Smoke1 said:

I don't agree Im in SD and i do my paperwork after i've processed the people, so they aren't waiting for me Ive never brought anyone back to sandy or paleto to do my paperwork on there J-time

No one said that. We do not hold you anywhere purely to submit our paperwork while you wait.

[Aldarine]

Prison time comments aside because let's be real, they've been lowered already and the time should serve as a deterrent to doing crime, there's no need to lower it further right now, I do understand the concerns regarding detainment and do think there is possibility for improvement.

The perspective I am looking at it from is simply from an interactive side. While being detained or pending transport, yes there can be outside factors that slow down the process which is understandable, however, this delay usually come with a lack of interactive roleplay with the people whom are waiting. I respect investigation, managing a scene, and all that goes with it, and want to encourage people to continue going about their roleplay. I also do understand that waiting in a holding cell or bus twiddling your thumbs with no roleplay or engagement is not what anybody wants to do or subject anybody else to. I think we can all agree that there have been times where people have waited for a very long time of no fault of their own to only then serve their sentence which they would have ideally started serving a while prior and it can feel "unfair" for lack of better term.

That said, if there was a way (via script) to formally detain somebody and count that time towards their overall sentence (within reason - more on this below) I think that would be a decent compromise. It would still give the ability for investigation, scene management, etc. while at the same time give acknowledgement to the time that individuals are waiting to start their sentence.

Example....

A shootout takes place where two (2) suspects are apprehended and three (3) officers sustained injuries. The suspects are cuffed, all the other fun LEO jazz happens and they are placed in the back of a cruiser. When the suspects are cuffed, LEOs do /detain PLAYERID. 

Medics arrive on scene and attend to the injured officers. The two cuffed individuals are still in the cruiser waiting as this roleplay takes place. The injured officers provide in depth back and forth medical roleplay which takes a decent amount of time.

Three (3) new players (remember we love them) arrive on scene and act like little silly peanuts, hindering the ending stages of the investigation and available officers on scene spend a significant amount of time getting them under control. The cuffed individuals have now been waiting in the cruiser for 30+ minutes.

Transport finally takes place and the individuals are taken to DOC where they go through processing and all the other fun DOC jazz. When /prison is done, the amount of time under /detail is subtracted from their overall prison time remaining to be served.

A "cap" would be in place so no matter how much time you are detained, you are still required to do X amount of time of your sentence, only X% of your time in detainment is removed from your sentence, or some other way to balance it. I do not support the idea of time fully served and think there should still be the DOC part of every sentence. This gives the balance of roleplay still coming to those within DOC so the faction members are not simply glorified inmate processors (compare this idea to the offline time reduction with required time served in DOC).

[Saint_]

+1 what Aldarine said, It’s fine for PD/SD to have their RP, just add a time served mechanic as Aldarine said either a command or just when you get cuffed. Ex. You are cuffed for 30 minutes on scene after a shootout and you are transported to DOC, Once sentenced 30 mins is automatically removed etc

[Osborn]

Has anyone thought of admitting to things / willingness to speak / take responsibility for a crime, if the time in detainment is an issue to you?

Granted there could be other reasons for detainment but from personal experience, often it usually is player A shoots player B, gets caught by PD/SD with the gun, they have bullets from the murder scene, now they need to find a detective/investigator to match the gun to the bullet. This is 10-20 minutes of RP depending if someone is available etc. Usually no one admits to it, but they could. 

I think it is situational but in most cases RP could wrap up quicker if someone understands they are a loss.

Of course you could also RP a character that wants nothing to do with the cops, don't want to speak to them, and just wants to make their work harder. But then..

[Mikazuki Ueno]

I disagree with a time served mechanic. Your prison/jail time starts when you get processed in prison/jail.

If you'd like things to speed up, as Osborn suggested, just start admitting to what you've done. No need to wait for K9 if you just say: There's a gun in the car, it's illegal. No need to wait for a detective or investigator to talk to people if you just say: I did it, and I'd do it again! I shot them! Want to see if you can get away with it? Say nothing, sit and be patient. We also have to wait, just like you during this RP unless we are the one conducting it.

Edited October 14, 2024 by Mikazuki Ueno

[PufferBulletin]

I think reform on charges would be a good place to start where it would benefit PD, SD, JOB, Crim.

Simply add a charge modifier  ''pleads guilty'', to which officer would apply if the suspect pleads to a charge and in exchange give him 20% off the total time/money, although  this would prevent criminal disputing the charges with JOB later on as they plead guilty.

This would give a reason for criminals to admit the charges and get something in exchange as well as JOB would get less cases (which lets be real they are already struggling with the sheer amount of applications)

Edited October 14, 2024 by PufferBulletin

[SkyeFuryy]

I think there would be more issues with /detain as an idea than pros. My main concern is what happens if the 10-15's gang affiliates manage to liberate them? What happens to the timer? etc etc.

We simply can't cater to everyone at the same time and realistically. IRL the investigation happens whilst the suspect is on bail or in custody. They don't serve a prison sentence even if they're in custody. Here, you are asking us to do something that IRL they are allowed 48 hours before sentencing (whilst being detained!). Far more often we let the suspect go when we can't fully get a story instead of making them wait longer. 

 

[Bala]

23 hours ago, Smoke1 said:

So the other day I was pulled over and asked to get out of the vehicle for crossing a yellow line not complaining about this i'm not even complaining about the fact that they had the road already spiked before I drove away and rammed my car to catch fire costing me 7k in repairs, The thing that I feel really needs to change here  is the wait time between being arrested and starting your jail time going to Mission Row or example I was on my leo character yesterday and people sat in a bus for a good 40 minutes before they were taken to start their time this is not fair by any means!!! and should change
Waiting in a holding cell serves 0 purpose except a loophole to screw you around or because pd doesn't want to drive you to doc the fact that people wait 40 plus minutes before their charges start isn't acceptable.  I feel it should change you can do your investigations after the person's in jail you don't need to keep them in a holding cell. I understand the argument from Leo's standpoint is we need to investigate to see if we need to add anymore charges but I feel it's just becoming a bit over the top we're going to jail, the extra charges are not needed by any means. We don't need to spend an extra 40+ minutes on top of our 2-3 hours in jail. I feel we need to stop doing this as well as lower max j-time no one wants to sit in jail for 3 hours ever j-time should be 1 hour max, and if you disagree i challenge you to make an alt commit crimes so pd charge stack you an sit there for 3 hours an tell me you've had fun and enjoyed your rp experience.

If you're not complaining about something, then why bother including it in the post?

Because that first couple sentences paints, I assume PD, in a bad light. How dare they have spikes deployed? They actually rammed my vehicle until it caught fire!

The flip side of us doing these things to stop you is that you didn't pay attention to any of it. You did not stop driving your vehicle until we literally had to damage it so much it wouldn't function anymore. If you don't care about your car, why are we going to?

You make these generalizing, bait statements in your post about how we want to screw you around and we don't want to drive you to DOC. You have absolutely no idea the motivation behind why we are doing things whatsoever.

I know it's a foreign concept on a role-play server, but have you considered that people might actually have more to do during those scenarios than just an arrest? Have you considered that perhaps we have another faction that likes to do the transport role-play that we can call on to take you?

No, of course not. Because it doesn't support the biased rhetoric you're trying to push.

Do you think that a fun and enjoyable roleplay experience for PD was considered when we're made to write mandatory arrest reports or engage in the sketchy legal roleplay to support the Judicial Branch? Fuck no. We just had to get on with it and make the best of it.

The irony is, part of the reason why you get exactly the charges you have committed with no deviation is that we can't do it anymore because of that same implementation, we have to go by the book, every single time.

Not every roleplay experience you have on this server is or has to be, positive for your character. If you see having actual consequences for your actions, DOC not offering you opportunities to roleplay and giving you the charges for the crimes you have committed as charge stacking then you seriously need to look at yourself.

Edited October 14, 2024 by Bala

[Smoke1]

42 minutes ago, Bala said:

If you're not complaining about something, then why bother including it in the post?

Because that first couple sentences paints, I assume PD, in a bad light. How dare they have spikes deployed? They actually rammed my vehicle until it caught fire!

The flip side of us doing these things to stop you is that you didn't pay attention to any of it. You did not stop driving your vehicle until we literally had to damage it so much it wouldn't function anymore. If you don't care about your car, why are we going to?

You make these generalizing, bait statements in your post about how we want to screw you around and we don't want to drive you to DOC. You have absolutely no idea the motivation behind why we are doing things whatsoever.

I know it's a foreign concept on a role-play server, but have you considered that people might actually have more to do during those scenarios than just an arrest? Have you considered that perhaps we have another faction that likes to do the transport role-play that we can call on to take you?

No, of course not. Because it doesn't support the biased rhetoric you're trying to push.

Do you think that a fun and enjoyable roleplay experience for PD was considered when we're made to write mandatory arrest reports or engage in the sketchy legal roleplay to support the Judicial Branch? Fuck no. We just had to get on with it and make the best of it.

The irony is, part of the reason why you get exactly the charges you have committed with no deviation is that we can't do it anymore because of that same implementation, we have to go by the book, every single time.

Not every roleplay experience you have on this server is or has to be, positive for your character. If you see having actual consequences for your actions, DOC not offering you opportunities to roleplay and giving you the charges for the crimes you have committed as charge stacking then you seriously need to look at yourself.

I'm sorry that you have taken this as a personal attack against pd I was just using a scenario that I could speak on because I was directly involved in it I didn't want to use hearsay and this person and that person I used my direct scenario and applied the knowledge of it to the context of my writings I just wanted to create a healthy conversation about this topic in hopes maybe we could collectively come up with some good ideas

[David Coast]

45 minutes ago, Bala said:

Do you think that a fun and enjoyable roleplay experience for PD was considered when we're made to write mandatory arrest reports or engage in the sketchy legal roleplay to support the Judicial Branch?

Is that arrest weport weally trwicky?

[PufferBulletin]

2 minutes ago, David Coast said:

Is that arrest weport weally trwicky?

You're trying to make a joke, but to make a good arrest report that will stand in a court takes 10-30 minutes depending on how complicated is the case. 

Stupid take.