OBESE Posted March 11, 2019 Report Share Posted March 11, 2019 (edited) Hello dear roleplayers! Today Im coming with a small suggestion that I believe is to be really important in order to change the way this server is working. At this point in time when you deal with the police it is very one way and I could call it a hard power gaming in most of the cases because nothing you say will actually change the situation and you will be imprisoned. One of the reasons why I see this to be happening is the fact that the players on the server are not informed, because they do not have access, to the protocols that police officer has to follow. All of it is accessible only to police officers, therefore, the public is unaware of their rights. I suggest to create an adjusted version of police rule book that explains the structure and ways that the police officer has to follow in order to make an arrest, do a search or anything like that. My story is that on my main character I had two instances where I was wrongfully arrested or searched and I made AI reports, there was no base to what to go on. I could not point out specific things that were done wrong or how I should not have been arrested in the first place because there was no probable cause. Of course both my AI reports were denied by just simply saying - everything that was done was correct. Then I made my alternative account with who I joined Police. Now when I actually had the access to the police rule-book I was able to see all the mistakes done in my arrests. The fact that my AI reports were denied saying everything was done correctly and me reading through and seeing that it was not, almost makes me feel the corruption in the police - blue protecting blue. I believe it's time where a person can protect themselves of police wrong doings by pointing out their mistakes. This - Im a police and what I say is how its gonna be - mentality has to stop! Edited March 11, 2019 by OBESE 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeistuoliZ Posted March 11, 2019 Report Share Posted March 11, 2019 +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexalex303 Posted March 11, 2019 Report Share Posted March 11, 2019 -1 It would be unrealistic if every petty criminal in Los Santos would have an advanced understanding of police procedures, rules and regulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSilky Posted March 11, 2019 Report Share Posted March 11, 2019 We adhere to the server rules like every other player. We have internal faction guideline (protocols) but it is all foreshadowed by the server rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomvd682 Posted March 11, 2019 Report Share Posted March 11, 2019 +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teca Posted March 11, 2019 Report Share Posted March 11, 2019 +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePro Posted March 11, 2019 Report Share Posted March 11, 2019 +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OBESE Posted March 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2019 3 hours ago, alexalex303 said: -1 It would be unrealistic if every petty criminal in Los Santos would have an advanced understanding of police procedures, rules and regulations. Why is it so unrealistic? What is unrealistic is when you have no chance to prove your innocence. When you are read your rights and you ask for your lawyer and they say sure, then you are taken to prison and told - it's too late for a lawyer, you already been charged. When you are arrested and your property is searched without any probably cause just for the only fact that you were in proximity of a crime zone. How do you fight jail time if police officer has decided in his head that you're guilty? Police officer has to be 100% sure, and if he makes the arrest then everyone assumes he is 100% sure. My AI report outcomes proved that twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serthon Posted March 11, 2019 Report Share Posted March 11, 2019 21 minutes ago, OBESE said: When you are read your rights and you ask for your lawyer and they say sure, then you are taken to prison and told - it's too late for a lawyer, you already been charged. "you have the right to a government appointed attorney present during legal questioning" I'll explain what this means: You are being arrested. It is then decided that an investigator will be questioning you, if that happens, an administrator will roleplay as an attorney (given the fact there are no actual lawyers on the server, governmental attorneys). That is what that means, you don't get to order a lawyer when being arrested if you aren't being questioned. Overall, I am unsure about this suggestion. As we are based off of Los Angeles PD, there are a lot of similarities internally. Something the LAPD has, is in fact, a public handbook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OBESE Posted March 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2019 5 minutes ago, Serthon said: Something the LAPD has, is in fact, a public handbook. I know about the attorney part and when it's given, Im just pointing out the usual, when you have no way to prove your innocence in rp way. But the fact that you say that LAPD in real life has public handbook, that just proves my point. As a police, your way of working should be transparent, not hidden. Of course Im not talking about special operations like SWAT and shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randul Posted March 11, 2019 Report Share Posted March 11, 2019 I think we are getting slightly away from the original point. Making the PD rule book public surely is an in-character issue. As you dispute arrests via IA reports which are in-character. I think it could be an interesting point to bring up in-character, maybe creating a petition and collecting resident's votes. Mayor's campaign policy? However you choose to do it, I believe it should be done in-character. Naturally, this would be a redacted version of their handbook to keep the department operational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nateX Posted March 11, 2019 Report Share Posted March 11, 2019 How does it make sense for PD to make all protocols and handbooks public? -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusketDeezNuts Posted March 11, 2019 Report Share Posted March 11, 2019 -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OBESE Posted March 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2019 3 hours ago, nateX said: How does it make sense for PD to make all protocols and handbooks public? -1 Never said all and not the ones that police uses. It should be adjusted versions, meant for public as reference as how police works. Like even the thing when You get robbed, you call police and then point out the robber, police is not allowed to do nothing due to the fact that they did not witness it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BULLDOZER Posted March 11, 2019 Report Share Posted March 11, 2019 10 minutes ago, OBESE said: You get robbed, you call police and then point out the robber, police is not allowed to do nothing due to the fact that they did not witness it. We do not have a legal system in game so we cannot question and have an investigation with a judge, so we can only arrest based on of we see it or if we are 100% certain and have IC proof. I hope this clears it up a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OBESE Posted March 12, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 1 hour ago, BULLDOZER said: We do not have a legal system in game so we cannot question and have an investigation with a judge, so we can only arrest based on of we see it or if we are 100% certain and have IC proof. I hope this clears it up a little. Yeah, what I meant was that as a civilian I dont know that , because I do not have information on how police works and what they base their decision on. In such situations I see that I have just called police, gave them my statement of a crime, pointed out the criminal and all the police does is have a friendly chat, like they friends from a local pub. I don't want you to look at this as a negative option to give. I believe it just adds to the roleplay and just because you have often experience with bad characters or baiters, does not mean this is a bad idea. That being said we can see an obvious division in support between those who's characters are police and who's not. Not a single individual with a police character is for the idea as it seems they are afraid from such information being public. And when you try to hide something from public, it means you have something to hide. If you gonna say that Im full of shit, then as an example I can put down the fact that my criminal character was delivered to station on 190km/h with no sirens on, for no reason to rush, from one side of city, to another and if I would not have the small experience I had and chance to see the expectations of police officer, I would assume there was nothing wrong with it. Not here to argue, just trying to show my reasoning for this suggestion and find a strong reasoning why this would be a bad suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
37hh Posted March 12, 2019 Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 (edited) To all the in game cops -1'ing this saying it's unrealistic, I hope you realize all major policing departments handbooks are legally obtainable to the public, including the Los Angeles Police Department ( Department server is based on ) Handbook, Procedures, Manual's, Codes; http://www.lapdonline.org/lapd_manual/ - Showcased in volume 4 of the above link is all codes used by the LAPD. http://venice311.org/venice-lapd-scanner/lapd-radio-codes-references/ - Put in the link above is a dumbed down version, easier to read and understand, but still directly taken from the LAPD Manual provided on their public website. Also linked in the manual provided by LAPD is all of their divisions, responsibilities of an officer, officers ethics, etc. These are all public, along with court documents ( some must be requested in person via courthouse ), homicide investigations ( open cases are not available to the public ). Players of the community should be obliged to view documents that police based on our server use, as it's unrealistic to hide these based on real life police departments ( again including the one this server and game is based off of ) and their policies. Edited March 12, 2019 by 37hh 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SA Brian Jennings Posted March 12, 2019 Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 -1. I live in a city where I have no idea the police procedures nor is it in the public domain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCanadian Posted March 12, 2019 Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 (edited) +1 alot of people are bringing up 'realism' as a reason to -1, but @37hh just disproved it for the city los Santos is based around. I agree with the others; the server should be made more realistic and have a higher RP standard wherever possible, so a public code of conduct, radio codes, past cases and manual would do just that. It's unrealistic for these not to be public. Edited March 12, 2019 by TheCanadian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
37hh Posted March 12, 2019 Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 (edited) 29 minutes ago, SA Brian Jennings said: -1. I live in a city where I have no idea the police procedures nor is it in the public domain. Are you a citizen of the United States? Regardless, many states require any law enforcement agencies to post their manuals online, including California, which again is the state the server / game is based from Edited March 12, 2019 by 37hh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yputi Posted March 12, 2019 Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 -1. 22 hours ago, OBESE said: At this point in time when you deal with the police it is very one way and I could call it a hard power gaming in most of the cases because nothing you say will actually change the situation and you will be imprisoned. I dont see why this is powergaming. This is more like an IC issue to me. Being not able to see *their* rule book isn't powergaming. In my experience last time I had a situation with PD they actually stated the pennal code that was in effect. If they wont allowed you to do certain /me's or don't let you RP certain action, then it would be powergaming. Not having info you shouldn't have anyway isn't included. I already see people reading through LSC rule books and tell them what and what not to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OBESE Posted March 12, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 32 minutes ago, Yputi said: -1. I dont see why this is powergaming. This is more like an IC issue to me. Being not able to see *their* rule book isn't powergaming. In my experience last time I had a situation with PD they actually stated the pennal code that was in effect. If they wont allowed you to do certain /me's or don't let you RP certain action, then it would be powergaming. Not having info you shouldn't have anyway isn't included. I already see people reading through LSC rule books and tell them what and what not to do. Powergaming in a way that after the police officer has decided in his head that you're guilty you're guilty and there is not much chance you will get away. It's not the fact that I don't know the rule book, it the fact that I cannot appeal or have a chance to get out of the situation. It's a two stop journey if you lucky, could just be one stop journey. Last night I got imprisoned for the third time of my characters history and I would say that this was the first time where I honestly was 100% guilty and there was nothing to add to it, except the 190km/h delivery speed through the town, ignoring traffic and red lights with no sirens on. The reason why IRL such materials are available is because in reality Police and Government are public's servants, we, the public are the one you serve, not other way around, so as any employer we have the right to know everything that does not affect no one safety or process of investigation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SezzeseParola Posted March 12, 2019 Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 Agreed. Public should know the ins and outs of the ones we are supposed to be protected by. Not adding the fact that IRL, on the premise that the server's city is based off of Los Angeles, should be of public knowledge and domain. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulekas Posted March 12, 2019 Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 I like how 90% of -1 is from IG PD players +1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yputi Posted March 12, 2019 Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, OBESE said: Powergaming in a way that after the police officer has decided in his head that you're guilty you're guilty and there is not much chance you will get away. It's not the fact that I don't know the rule book, it the fact that I cannot appeal or have a chance to get out of the situation. It's a two stop journey if you lucky, could just be one stop journey. Last night I got imprisoned for the third time of my characters history and I would say that this was the first time where I honestly was 100% guilty and there was nothing to add to it, except the 190km/h delivery speed through the town, ignoring traffic and red lights with no sirens on. The reason why IRL such materials are available is because in reality Police and Government are public's servants, we, the public are the one you serve, not other way around, so as any employer we have the right to know everything that does not affect no one safety or process of investigation. Like I said, this is more of an IC info. I am not in PD myself, but I get why PD people give their -1. Not sharing info is not PG. Edited March 12, 2019 by Yputi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
