Better Pay for Faction Jobs

[Soupiestfork]

2 hours ago, SuBDivisions23 said:

I mean...to be honest here government jobs really do need Something. having them submit screenshots to Hr would not only stress the heck out of the mechanics and severely burden HR to a standstill (Imagine doing 50 cars in 2 hours)

The simply fact a government employee gets paid over 50% less then more freelance jobs, and has alot more restrictions and training required is a bit nuts. Why should a mechanic work 1 hour for 6000, when he can go hunting for an hour and make 15k?

it makes sense for the criminal side to make more (Drugs and guns) but the economy is heavily against working at gov jobs. Why should anybody work at LSC for example when they can just do Road worker and make even more for 75% less effort and no risk of being fired?

Also, I dont understand what you mean by "Makes bonuses for LSC/Bayview mean nothing" Because....It would still be a bonus? a 50k Bonus is a free 50k regardless of how much you get paid is it not? its an Additional 50k added ontop, i dont see how the company giving you Extra money would mean nothing, especially in todays market.

 

What i also think you might've failed to realize is the "increased pay" comes at demanding effort. For Mechanics to make more, they HAVE to go and service cars, they cant just sit around and salary farm. For DCC they MUST take cab rides to get the extra money to their pay, and Weazel must make ads for people for a bonus. the only "Flat out" pay raise is LSPD/LSSD and LSEMS for being the 2 hardest government jobs period. They Deserve to be paid accordingly.

+1

[TheCactus]

9 hours ago, SuBDivisions23 said:

I mean...to be honest here government jobs really do need Something. having them submit screenshots to Hr would not only stress the heck out of the mechanics and severely burden HR to a standstill (Imagine doing 50 cars in 2 hours)

The simply fact a government employee gets paid over 50% less then more freelance jobs, and has alot more restrictions and training required is a bit nuts. Why should a mechanic work 1 hour for 6000, when he can go hunting for an hour and make 15k?

it makes sense for the criminal side to make more (Drugs and guns) but the economy is heavily against working at gov jobs. Why should anybody work at LSC for example when they can just do Road worker and make even more for 75% less effort and no risk of being fired?

Also, I dont understand what you mean by "Makes bonuses for LSC/Bayview mean nothing" Because....It would still be a bonus? a 50k Bonus is a free 50k regardless of how much you get paid is it not? its an Additional 50k added ontop, i dont see how the company giving you Extra money would mean nothing, especially in todays market.

 

What i also think you might've failed to realize is the "increased pay" comes at demanding effort. For Mechanics to make more, they HAVE to go and service cars, they cant just sit around and salary farm. For DCC they MUST take cab rides to get the extra money to their pay, and Weazel must make ads for people for a bonus. the only "Flat out" pay raise is LSPD/LSSD and LSEMS for being the 2 hardest government jobs period. They Deserve to be paid accordingly.

It really is supposed to be like that. Scripted jobs are boring and they pay more. Some require tools, vehicles and experience if you want to make more money so that's why they are paid more. When you're in a faction, all you do is clock in and do what you gotta do, with others or alone. You could have 0 cars, empty pockets and only clothes on you. Most of the times you only need a radio to work. It is more enjoyable and rewarding overtime compared to a scripted job.

"it makes sense for the criminal side to make more (Drugs and guns) but the economy is heavily against working at gov jobs. Why should anybody work at LSC for example when they can just do Road worker and make even more for 75% less effort and no risk of being fired?"

The risk of getting fired isn't a "risk" that normal people even consider. You work, you get paid. Roadworkers get killed over a cone, that's risk.

I've tried all the jobs you mentioned and still doing some of them. I don't agree because it would just worsen an economy that is already struggling. You are requesting something that isn't really needed and the consequences would make everyone suffer, especially new players. Mechanics could use a raise and some more roleplay to keep those factions alive. The others do not because they are functioning properly.
There are two things that we should keep in mind here:
1. Don't fix what isn't broken.
2. Printing and giving everybody money makes everyone poor, not rich.

 

If this comment section had basic knowledge of economics you'd realise that increasing salaries would create more problems. 

Edited September 9, 2023 by TheCactus

[SuBDivisions23]

This isnt about Economics, it's about the players, something your failing to realise. Why do you think LSC is empty most of the time? Why should somebody put literal weeks or even months of effort into moving up in a company to make less then someone who just arrived.

 

If you truly think the economy is that ruined and your an expert on it, then please make a suggestion detailing fixes for the economy itself

 

Also scripted jobs are boring but they shouldnt completely blow government jobs out of the water. Why does a man delivering parcels make more then an lspd officer?  There is a risk with those but at the end of the day you can just go back to work, that's not an option for gov jobs if you get fired. Once your Fired, your done you cant go back there. You have to start all over at a new place or wait to reinstate. I dont see how freelance jobs have a higher risk then government jobs, especially LSPD/LSSD and LSEMS. They are supposed to be quick cash for in a pinch, not the main source of cash. Again, economics aside this is about the PLAYER and the gameplay, to keep people coming back to play those jobs and eclipse as a whole.

Edited September 9, 2023 by SuBDivisions23

[inorigj]

I've got to be honest and take SubD's side here. I don't think it makes any logical sense what so ever that a GOV job should pay anywhere close and SPIECALLY not less. then a Freelance job. Freelance jobs are on the server to simply fill the street and assist new players with obtaining money to get going. Jobs such as Mechanic, LEO or Medic are jobs that require legit OOC effort such as filling out applications. forms and following rules and guidelines.

 

Most People on ECRP are here for the money grind making it very hard for GOV jobs to tempt any of them in to pick GOV jobs as a grind method. The few RP oriented players on the server don't really care about the money so that isn't an issue, but on a server with SUCH a damaged and unbalanced Economy. giving less money isn't going to fix it. It will simply discourage the current starting players from grinding in it as they know they'll never amount to what they want due to the low incomes.

Edited September 9, 2023 by inorigj

[SuBDivisions23]

Just now, inorigj said:

I've got to honest and take SubD's side here. I don't think it makes any logical sense what so ever that a GOV job should pay where close and SPIECALLY not less. then a Freelance job. Freelance jobs are on the server to simply fill the street and assist new players with obtaining money to get going. Jobs such as Mechanic, LEO or Medic are jobs that require legit OOC effort such as filling out applications. forms and following rules and guidelines.

 

Most People on ECRP are here for the money grind making it very hard for GOV jobs to tempt any of them in to pick GOV jobs as a grind method. The few RP oriented players on the server don't really care about the money so that isn't an issue, but on a server with SUCH a damaged and unbalanced Economy. giving less money isn't going to fix it. It will simply discourage the current starting players from grinding in it as they know they'll never amount to what they want due to the low incomes.

Said better then i could've

Also I did make a suggestion regarding 1 possible Economy fix that would remove money from circulation, so theres that but back on topic

LSPD/LSSD are by far the biggest and most active GOV job, and rightfully so, but places like LSC who often have 0 mechanics online hurts the Players and the server as a whole. People go there needing crucial repairs and customizations just to find nobody wants to work there, and the poor soul who clocks on gets swamped by 50+ cars an hour by themself. Its just not fair for them to make less for going through all that trouble of the OOC and IC Side of Applying, getting a clean record, staying clean, and following the companies guidelines instead of just going to a "Boring" job like Roadworker or Trucker that requires no application, no roleplay and often no interaction between players just to make twice if not triple the amount of money

[CalvinKlein]

29 minutes ago, SuBDivisions23 said:

This isnt about Economics, it's about the players, something your failing to realise. Why do you think LSC is empty most of the time? Why should somebody put literal weeks or even months of effort into moving up in a company to make less then someone who just arrived.

 

If you truly think the economy is that ruined and your an expert on it, then please make a suggestion detailing fixes for the economy itself

 

Also scripted jobs are boring but they shouldnt completely blow government jobs out of the water. Why does a man delivering parcels make more then an lspd officer?  There is a risk with those but at the end of the day you can just go back to work, that's not an option for gov jobs if you get fired. Once your Fired, your done you cant go back there. You have to start all over at a new place or wait to reinstate. I dont see how freelance jobs have a higher risk then government jobs, especially LSPD/LSSD and LSEMS. They are supposed to be quick cash for in a pinch, not the main source of cash. Again, economics aside this is about the PLAYER and the gameplay, to keep people coming back to play those jobs and eclipse as a whole.

I agree with you on some points but to the “why do you think LSC is always empty” 

I think that’s a LSC issue not a server/economy issue, as you look at its counterpart (bayview) and you see they’re always active and packed, so was LSC before; with the same pay so I don’t think those two things are correlated 

[SuBDivisions23]

6 minutes ago, CalvinKlein said:

I agree with you on some points but to the “why do you think LSC is always empty” 

I think that’s a LSC issue not a server/economy issue, as you look at its counterpart (bayview) and you see they’re always active and packed, so was LSC before; with the same pay so I don’t think those two things are correlated 

yeah you do have a point. As an LSC Employee myself i often do go clock on when there is nobody around but its a real struggle. its a lack of employees at LSC as compared to bayview

[Pazz]

this is the moment ive been waiting for

[SuBDivisions23]

16 minutes ago, Pazz said:

this is the moment ive been waiting for

concerned.jpg

[Asbo]

please man water got so expensive I cant afford it

 

+1

[Freclan]

6 minutes ago, Asbo said:

please man water got so expensive I cant afford it

 

+1

i had to take a loan to buy 16 bottles of water please raise the salary

[TheCactus]

7 hours ago, SuBDivisions23 said:

If you truly think the economy is that ruined and your an expert on it, then please make a suggestion detailing fixes for the economy itself

I don't get nothing from doing it and most people wouldn't have the mental capacity and/or knowledge to understand, just like it is happening right now, so it will result in negative feed back. It already happened IC so I learned my lesson and will avoid wasting my time.

I am not on Eclipse Forums teach what I learned in years of studies. You guys can google if you really care.

Edited September 9, 2023 by TheCactus

[GreyWind1]

On 9/7/2023 at 3:45 PM, power said:

I think there needs to be a change in faction payouts, not necessarily just with a raise as to faction salary but as to incentivise people to partake in RP scenarios. As it currently stands, at the top ranks you'll be earning $8,000 p/h which, if you've made it up to a position like this you're more then likely in the 35% tax bracket, equates to $5,200 after tax meaning the individuals at the top of these factions are earning the same or less as the newest employees which can be a huge demotivator as the additional hard work that these individuals put in, does not benefit them financially. Furthermore, people in LSC/Bayview/DCC earn the same amount of money no matter whether they are involved with the most customers, or tabbed out avoiding RP. I think there are definitely IC solutions to this and Bayview have been discussing some ideas as to motivate people to get involved more but there is always a flaw with any idea due to a script limitation or the potentiality for people to exploit the systems we have discussed.  +1 to an increase in faction salary

+1

[CelesNebula]

+1

 

[PoliceMan101]

As someone who's been both imma have to be against raising salaries completely.

Reason 1 Risk:

When it comes to being a criminal there is so much risk involved in the matter. No legal role-player/someone who isn't involved has no grasp or understanding of the risk involved. If we want to cook drugs, we need to go to a lab, buy ingredients, then actually cook the drugs. If we die we immediately lose 10s of thousands of ingredients, let alone including time spent to cook. This isn't even including the fact our vehicles will be chopped costing another 10-20k and also the loss of items, as much typically a pistol which is around 7-10k each. If you add it up we are losing 30-50k per time we go a lab if we die. Where by in comparison, you work for a few hours, if your in DCC or a mechanic you can mess around for a few hours not including commission pay and have absolute 0 risk of ever losing any money. This potential loss doesn't include the fact of if you get arrested, I personally have been slapped of fines excess of 100k. Just like that hours of money disintegrated because I got arrested. Whereby If you're in a faction then your not going to be arrested as your legal. Criminals make more, because they have more to lose. LEO and Factions have no risk, hence they have low reward.

Reason 2 Economy:

If you up the price of everyone's salaries, everyone doesn't become richer in fact much the opposite everyone becomes poorer. As everyone has more money to spend, they can afford more things such as better vehicles and so forth. This will either cause the prices of vehicles and other goods to spike (inflation) or it will just cause everyone to all have super cars. It will just crash the economy.

I would say more but I don't have much time and would rather just get it out there instead of putting this on hold for whoever knows how long.

All I'm gonna ask you is, why do you see essentially every faction/LEO role-player, of who's been roleplaying for a long period of time with millions in the bank even as a low POII, yet you see more and more Criminals by the day having excessive amounts of debts they cant pay off ?

 

[Demonmit1]

Quote

As someone who's been both imma have to be against raising salaries completely.

I agree to a point. raising the base pay would be a bad idea in my opinion. BUT, there should be some form of commission pay for the civ factions that actively interact with players and provide a useful service to the community. EMS afaik gets paid $500 per patient delivered. Weasel gets paid $100 per ad posted. Why wouldn't Mechanics get paid per car repaired, or Taxi get paid per trip? its not consistent.

Faction civ jobs require so much more initial effort to get involved with, have strict rules IC, and for all that effort, you get paid half of what someone gets working a freelance script job for the same amount of time. 

clearly the significantly low pay is a deterrent, player interest and retention seems quite low. getting a roadside repair request is so rare, and often there isn't even mechanics on duty. New players get frustrated seeing a single taxi cab online, but not getting a response when called, and not being able to pull out a citybee because some taxi driver is afk. giving players financial incentive to actively participate in their faction job would draw more people to be sign up and be actively working at the jobs. 

The risk vs reward of illegal work, is generally the more effort you put into working at it, the more money you make. Faction jobs don't do that, you get paid the same whether you put no effort or all the effort.  hell, some freelance jobs actively punish you for putting more effort into the job.

[Smoke1]

You can  make 8-18k an hour freelance. For example md get a small % each time they drop someone off.. to make it more worth it... now lsc bayview dcc even pd /sd make a base wage that starts very low and caps at 7-8k Why be apart of those factions when you can get a free truck fuel an tolls paid for making upwards of 18k an hour somtimes more trucking farming some other jobs.. you can farm that money reguardless of the freelance job why can't someone who's apart of a legal faction like the ones I listed have that same equil opportunity? +1

[PurplePlant]

+1 faction duties are high responsibility jobs that pay less than a freelance job that anyone can pick up once joining the server. I can make more go-postal than taking months to get into a faction that has a lot of work and responsibility IC and OOC only to get paid less. It doesn't make a ton of sense and I'd like to see us all get paid better in these factions.

[Smoke1]

Any updates

Edited November 17, 2023 by Smoke1

[Oli]

In general: I dont think salaries should be increased. All you need to do to get paid your salary is to clock in, whether its a lot of work or no depends on timezone and if you have colleagues around or not. There is 0 risk and all you need to do is sit there do nothing until a customer comes.

Freelance jobs on the other hand have to actively work, not sit alt tabbed waiting for someone to show up, they dont have people to RP with (except for roadworker maybe, and its mostly people who want to kill them over a cone). If you feel they have a better life, maybe you should consider joining them.

We have those salaries and all civilians are already rich and prices of rare vehicles like drag for example is 5m at least rn, comet retros around 12m. Thinking that increasing all salaries wont affect prices of everything, including apartments, houses, vehicles especially rare ones is living in denial to have more numbers in your bank account that will mean nothing as prices will go up as salaries go up.

Regarding LSC: As mentioned multiple times, Bayview isnt suffering from this at all, making me believe it doesnt have anything to do with the salary but its more of an internal issue. If you raise the salary for all factions, people would still choose to work for Bayview over LSC for the same issues that LSC is dealing with rn, which is IC.

[Jett_J]

+1 the economy is not the same as before and most people pay 35% tax on their salary too so if you make $6k/hr, then you really on get 3.9k/hr.

I disagree with Oli when he says people like mechanics don't deserve salary increases since you just sit around until a customer needs help. If anything that's a part of the reason players should be compensated more. No one wants to sit around and do nothing for extended periods of time and make a like 4k an hour doing it. LEO jobs especially deserve more than what they get right now considering we have to do extra paperwork multiple times a shift, and there is a lot more expectations to do your job correctly. Also, a lot of the paperwork is done when you aren't even logged into the game.

Legal faction workers have very few ways to generate money aside from their salary so I think there does need to be an increase. 

 

Edited December 27, 2023 by Jett_J

[Mpache]

Since this got bumped, as a faction leader myself I'll sprinkle in this - legal (well, gov factions, not 100% sure about lsc/bayview/weazel) factions get seasonal bonuses. Usually, this is Easter, Summer and Holiday (mid December ish), so roughlyyy aimed for every four ish months. There are also employment bonuses paid out for three months you spent in the faction, in the case of MD, others I'm not certain about so I will not speak for them. In addition, there are the Employee of the Month bonuses (for MD its a flat bonus, for other factions I believe its a salary bump to 8k, not sure if that was changed). Furthermore, MD pays out bonuses to people who are active in divisions, per division, every two weeks. So in the case of MD, we *do* reward activity and retainment, in addition to getting decently high pay per hour as a result of pay bumps last winter. Gonna be a -1 from me for the reasons above.

Edited December 29, 2023 by Pujdo

[Quietthecutie]

-1 For me just because of general rules of economics.

If everyone gets a pay bump, no one will. 90% of the costs in the server are subject to supply, demand, and are set by players.

If all civilian jobs receive a 15% pay bump, it will only take a few months before all vendors/dealers raise their prices by 15%. this is called inflation and its unavoidable in any kind of free economy. this means that any pay rise wouldn't help civilians but hinder crims and freelancers. the only people who would win with this suggestion are the owners of large businesses like car dealerships, gas stations and stores, who would reap bigger margins.

The suggestion sounds great on paper. anything that increases wages automatically sounds like bliss, but when you break it down a little this suggestion falls apart.

With regards to what might work? @Pujdo already referenced quarertly bonuses that most if not all civ orgs give out. these are usually in the region of 100k+ for just being on their books. performance bonuses are another option, an incentive to not just sit tabbed out and do the bare minimum is always nice, but how that would be implemented across various jobs would be...a challenge.

Edited December 29, 2023 by Quietthecutie

[Chunder]

While I agree seasonal bonuses are great, they are given to everyone. You can be a member of Command in a faction and work 3 hours a week then a newer ranking member can work 50 hours and earn a smaller bonus. For example at DOC Command received 4 times a bonus than the lowest ranking member.
Bonuses should be given to those in greater value that actively partake in roleplay that benefit the community to incentive them to keep doing it. Think of how MD has $500 per drop off, that's a great way to encourage people at lower ranks to work as its something they can easily get.

[GR_Seb]

In the server, we currently have two types of players: those who log in just to grind with limited roleplay, investing in their theme for future roleplay, and those who bid on properties for over $50,000,000. In my opinion, boosting the civilian economy could reduce the need for grinding, allowing more time for unique roleplay.

Civilians currently have very limited activities aside from working and driving. Socializing is rare due to the lack of open properties.

When was the last time your character went to a restaurant, arcade, or gallery? These events are infrequent for two main reasons.

Let's take the example of a civilian wanting to open a restaurant. To turn a profit, they need to buy a property for at least $3,000,000 to $8,000,000, spend around $600,000 on decoration, hire 6 staff (one security, two in the kitchen, and three waiters), and allocate an additional $80,000 on payments.
Then $200,000 for Weazel News advertising so they can have a map blip.
So far, they've spent roughly $9,000,000, if not more and their restaurant is ready to open, but they can't have unique recipes so they end up cooking meat for only $600.

Now here's a solution. PASSIVE FUNDS.  Have people apply to request a monthly income boost strictly for their LEGAL roleplay plan. This way we will have fewer people caring about money and more people caring about roleplaying.