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Malcolm Carter

Eclipse's biggest problem - Prison is used as an OOC Punishment by the PD who use it to meta-game

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Cops should not be able to decide whether a player can RP their own death.

The PD on this server consistently meta-game to a level that does not allow for good roleplay scenarios, and which allows the PD to punish players who have criminal characters with real-life consequences. How many times have you been shot down in a gunfight with the police, only to have a bandage wrapped around you and shipped off to jail? I have never seen anyone successfully roleplay their own death, which is utterly ridiculous. Just this year, there have been over 350 deaths at the hands of the police in the United States . If the PD's main priority is to accurately reflect a real-life U.S. Police Department in the way they roleplay, this should be reflected in allowing people to die instead of just fixing them up and sending them to jail. 

Anyone who is even remotely aware of the way police operate in the United States, and Los Angeles in particular, will know that the police are not hesitant to shoot to kill. So if I am standing 5 ft away from a cop who unloads their SMG/Shotgun at me, they aren't going to be looking to merely incapacitate me, rather to end my life to protect their own.

Surely then, cops would be shooting to kill on Eclipse, particularly given the brutality of some of the gunfights that occur on a daily basis involving S.W.A.T. and heavy weapons on both sides.

It is not good roleplay to shoot a load of criminals then keep them alive with CPR until an ambulance turns up and takes them all to prison

 

The subtle meta-gaming of the PD on Eclipse

This is a server-wide problem caused by structural problems. Players who have cop characters want you to go to jail if you commit a crime. It is not in their interest to let you roleplay your own death because you were the one gunning for them a moment earlier. 

Obviously for a player, the more desirable outcome is for your character to just die rather than spend hours in jail. So if your criminal character has been messing with a cop character, of course they are going to want the worst outcome for you as a player. This is meta-gaming and not in the interest of realistic and fair roleplay.

 

Death RP conflict of interest

The big problem here is the conflict of interest between players with cop characters and criminal characters. The cop player trying to get you sent to jail should not be the one deciding whether or not your character is allowed to die. In essence it is a choice between allowing a player to get back to playing the game again or for their PC to basically become useless for up to 2 hours. I know which option I'd choose if I had a police character and was on a bit of a power trip. I was shocked to discover that this was a rule because it seems obviously ripe for corruption and misuse. The PD at this point are basically fighting a meta, out-of-character war against the gang factions on this server where their main weapon is an OOC punishment for players with criminal characters.

 

Prison is an OOC punishment

I am certainly not the first to address this topic. The fact that you can't even logout during your prison sentence is testament to the fact that this is a punishment for the player, not for their character. GTA V is a very intensive game and for many people with lower-end rigs they simply can't use their computers with the game running in the background. So what you are really doing when you put someone's character in jail is locking their computer for however long the sentence is and making it unusable.

There is literally nothing to do in prison, and very few options to roleplay, since most people there are just AFK anyway. Again, and I can't stress this enough, this punishes the player, not the character.

 

We are all equal as players... right?

One would think that all the players on this server are equal, whether they choose to play with a criminal character or a law-abiding one (read: cop or mechanic, since there is basically nothing else legal to do that isn't a grinding minigame). Sorry to everyone in the PD, but you are a gang, just like everyone else. You are not here to protect the needs of the law-abiding public, because there barely are any. We're all just equal people playing video games here, so your cop character may well want my criminal character to go to prison, but you are meta-gaming if you keep my character alive just so he can go to jail. You do not have any moral high-ground over me because you choose to roleplay as a good person, and this should be reflected in the rules.

Clearly, however, we are not all equal, and the PD get unfair treatment - no doubt thanks to the number of admins in their ranks. It is not uncommon for a cop to suddenly turn into an admin during an encounter and for them to pause RP while they find excuses for you, the player, to go to prison. One could go as far as to say that the PD on this server are practically just the in-character admin faction. There is a significant overlap in the use of admin and regular prison - and the fact they are the exact same thing is further proof of prison as an OOC punishment.

The lack of good roleplay from police on this server and their reliance on meta-gaming and admin support has basically made Eclipse into a big game of OOC cops and robbers with unbalanced rules and no room to actually have unique roleplay interactions.

 

Why did I make this long post?

Well, as you have probably figured out by now if you've read this far, I was in this exact scenario just now. I was shooting at a police officer standing right next to me, and he was shooting back. I was downed, and tried to roleplay my death considering that I had just taken 5 gunshots at very close range. I tried to make this point OOC with the medics and cops while MarcoD kept repeating that it was the cops' decision as to whether or not I died. Oh, guess what? They decided I wasn't dead! How convenient. I guess that's 2 hours of me not being able to use my PC. I even had to close the game while I typed this up because my computer was too slow with it running in the background.

Fair, right? And instead of MarcoD forcing the roleplay to continue and having me stretchered into an ambulance and taken to MD to then be arrested, I was instantly teleported to jail by a cadet who referenced the teleport in character over voip by making a joke. Hmm.. I wonder if that's because the gang I'm in is known for trying to rescue police hostages on the trip from MD to the prison? Or perhaps just pure laziness and a cynical attempt to get me out of the way when I was raising a legitimate point. Another explicit example of meta-gaming by the PD, backed up by the admin powers of MarcoD who is apparently infamous for using his admin powers during situations his character is part of.

Edited by Malcolm Carter
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How do we determine if a player is allowed to roleplay their own death or not? As you said, there's a conflict of interest between the criminals and the police. Criminals wish to roleplay their own death, to avoid the consequences and the police want to punish them for their crimes. As a developer, I must say that death roleplay was never intended and I believe the concept emerged from the criminal players.

There is also a problem, that players are not afraid of dying or fighting the police, there are cases where they actively seek out opportunities to shoot at something. Basically, all shootouts will result in one party being neutralized (injured). If the police allow such players to roleplay their death, then there is nothing to stop them, from going back to their home/vehicle and getting back fully armed to kidnap or rob someone, all within 5 minutes.

If you think a staff member is abusing their power, or if you think the police are breaking the server rules, it should be reported on the forums. It's really difficult to discuss it, without the specifics of each individual case (evidence would be helpful too).

Finally, I completely agree that criminal roleplay should be as much fun as any other kind of roleplay, however there must be balance, crime must have some form of consequences. Improvements to the prison could prove to be helpful, the prison should be a roleplay opportunity, not an OOC punishment. A prison faction and prison activities are already in our TODO list.

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1 minute ago, Osvaldon said:

How do we determine if a player is allowed to roleplay their own death or not? As you said, there's a conflict of interest between the criminals and the police. Criminals wish to roleplay their own death, to avoid the consequences and the police want to punish them for their crimes. As a developer, I must say that death roleplay was never intended and I believe the concept emerged from the criminal players.

There is also a problem, that players are not afraid of dying or fighting the police, there are cases where they actively seek out opportunities to shoot at something. Basically, all shootouts will result in one party being neutralized (injured). If the police allow such players to roleplay their death, then there is nothing to stop them, from going back to their home/vehicle and getting back fully armed to kidnap or rob someone, all within 5 minutes.

If you think a staff member is abusing their power, or if you think the police are breaking the server rules, it should be reported on the forums. It's really difficult to discuss it, without the specifics of each individual case (evidence would be helpful too).

Finally, I completely agree that criminal roleplay should be as much fun as any other kind of roleplay, however there must be balance, crime must have some form of consequences. Improvements to the prison could prove to be helpful, the prison should be a roleplay opportunity, not an OOC punishment. A prison faction and prison activities are already in our TODO list.

Maybe the possibility to roleplay your death should be removed entirely then. I think a possible solution would be to make the neutralised/injured state different when you are shot by a cop rather than another regular player. Maybe if a cop shoots you, you simply die. This could encourage cops to use their tasers more if they really wanted to arrest and imprison someone - it would promote more intelligent and tactical policing rather than going in guns blazing with armour and heavy weapons, then letting the medics clean up the mess afterwards.

If you are trying to discourage players from going out of their way to fight the police, maybe heftier fines would be a fairer way to go about it rather than wasting the player's time with 2 hours of nothingness. There are 0 real-life consequences for police who get killed or roleplay themselves into bad scenarios, so why should there be for any other players? Again, I think that players with criminal characters are being mistreated and face heftier OOC consequences when really police and criminals are codependent and the game would be no fun without both. The line between police and admin is too blurred; the police should not be considered part of the server's infrastructure when they are just a roleplay group like any other.

If it's a case of keeping criminals off the streets then I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to log out during your prison sentence. I think this is the real kicker for me as it really is an OOC punishment at that point and, again, with no equivalent police character version. Maybe a cop that messes up should face up to 2 hours in a police academy or something similar. 

 

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26 minutes ago, Osvaldon said:

How do we determine if a player is allowed to roleplay their own death or not?

I think the EMT should decide if a person lives or not, since he is not part of either side (police/criminal). A police officer cant stabilize a person by just bandaging him, that has been shot multiple times with a heavy weapon. The EMT will arrive on the scene, check for injuries and decide if it would be possible for the injured person to survive. 

Edited by Appelgi
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You guys need to read and understand what Osvaldon wrote. He and Ballin's rational thinking is what keeps the server's gameplay as stable as it currently is ,with 150+ players.

Human nature is hard to contain when it comes to rules, and EVERY negative assumption needs to be backed up with evidence.

Because of game limitations and MD sometimes being unavailable i find it completely acceptable for police to stabilise a wounded person's health.

Everyone needs to look at the bigger picture here and how even a small modification can effect the entire server.

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10 minutes ago, O.K. said:

Guy got shot 5 times with shotgun being 2 meters away from officer to his face and he still cant roleplay his death. I saw that in my own eyes. How is that normal. This guy pointed some serious questions.

He needs to learn how to lose. If he would "roleplay" his death what would stop him to just go and shoot cops each time he has a chance?

Don't respond to my question, it was thought provoking.

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1 hour ago, Malcolm Carter said:

The PD on this server consistently meta-game to a level that does not allow for good roleplay scenarios, and which allows the PD to punish players who have criminal characters with real-life consequences. How many times have you been shot down in a gunfight with the police, only to have a bandage wrapped around you and shipped off to jail? I have never seen anyone successfully roleplay their own death, which is utterly ridiculous. Just this year, there have been over 350 deaths at the hands of the police in the United States . If the PD's main priority is to accurately reflect a real-life U.S. Police Department in the way they roleplay, this should be reflected in allowing people to die instead of just fixing them up and sending them to jail. 

Yeah it's pretty dumb to have been shot 15 times and go to jail but it has to be this way because I'd say over 80% of police arrests lead into a shootout, and the only way criminals would ever go to jail is if the PD doesn't allow them to RP death. I mean think about it, when was the last time you saw someone being arrested without guns being drawn and people being downed?

As far as the 350 deaths a year goes, I believe that stat actually goes against what you're trying to say. 350 deaths a year for over 325 million people in the US is a REALLY low % of people dying at the hands of police. 

1 hour ago, Malcolm Carter said:

Anyone who is even remotely aware of the way police operate in the United States, and Los Angeles in particular, will know that the police are not hesitant to shoot to kill. So if I am standing 5 ft away from a cop who unloads their SMG/Shotgun at me, they aren't going to be looking to merely incapacitate me, rather to end my life to protect their own.

Surely then, cops would be shooting to kill on Eclipse, particularly given the brutality of some of the gunfights that occur on a daily basis involving S.W.A.T. and heavy weapons on both sides.

Totally agree, except if everyone was allowed to RP death then there would be no repercussions to RPing the most heinous violent criminal in the world, who kills and robs indiscriminately. Which is a bad thing. 

It's super shitty to go to jail and literally waste 2 hours of oyur time doing nothing, and I believe there are some good solutions to it but there has to be some sort of heavy repercussion to being a violent criminal otherwise people would be non stop killing (even more then now).

1 hour ago, Malcolm Carter said:

I am certainly not the first to address this topic. The fact that you can't even logout during your prison sentence is testament to the fact that this is a punishment for the player, not for their character. GTA V is a very intensive game and for many people with lower-end rigs they simply can't use their computers with the game running in the background. So what you are really doing when you put someone's character in jail is locking their computer for however long the sentence is and making it unusable.

There is literally nothing to do in prison, and very few options to roleplay, since most people there are just AFK anyway. Again, and I can't stress this enough, this punishes the player, not the character.

Totally 100% agree, there should be more options to maybe get out of prison sooner at the expense of not being afk, and definitely being able to serve your prison time while offline (maybe at 1/2 the speed.) I'd like to see maybe some jobs you can do in order to earn "good behavior" and get out early. Stuff like sweeping X amount of items, or cleaning up litter inside the interior of the prison that reduces your prison time based on how much of the task you do. 

Prison used to be 1 hour, but that felt too short for the cops. Then they increased it to 8 hours, then reduced it to 4 hours, and now its been settled to 2 hours for quite a while now. It does feel like an ooc player punishment, but again there has to be some sort of harsh punishment otherwise players would go nuts just killing because the only repercussion is finding a new pistol.

 

So in conclusion, I totally agree there are a lot of issues with PD and the prison system and the way we RP death. I do feel like cops sometimes do some light to medium metagaming (talking over teamspeak about IC things, disliking your character on an alt so they try to arrest you on there criminal character, etc.). But the solution isn't to let people RP death everytime they get into a police shootout because it happens nearly every time the police try to make an arrest. There would be no criminals in the prisons, and there would be no repercussions to being a violent criminal (and there needs to be!). 

This is coming from a player with over 60 imprisonments on his main character and most of those are 4 hours.

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I remember back on the good ol' chatforums for text-based roleplay we had a pretty simple way of dealing with these kinds of issues.
Player A wants outcome A.
Player B wants outcome B.

 

Neither side wants to give in.

 

How do we solve that problem?
Coin toss.

 

Each side rolls a dice and whoever gets highest gets to decide.

 

The preferred option is of course that you both find an agreeable solution but if it doesnt happen I wouldn't mind leaving it up to a cointoss.

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I think a cointoss would still create a bit of upset on the losing side. How about going for an approach that will be in the back of everyone's mind when they decide to create a situation in which they may be gunned down in.

If you're a criminal and you're shot by 3 or more cops, it's an instant death, regardless of what the /analyze command shows. Same with PD, if you're a single cop rolling by a situation and are forced to engage and 3 or more criminals are firing on you and you are downed, it's an automatic death. If you have 3 people firing weapons at you, chances of survival are very slim to none.

Now of course this doesn't cover large group shootouts, but I think the same idea can be worked in to it somehow.

And the opposite of course would be if you're shot at by 1 or 2 individuals, it wouldn't be considered a death, but rather an injury with varying severity, and in this case without the option to RP death.

Edited by LiveTrash
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I just wanna put my point across here as I see it's being missed you all need to remember we have to play with GTA's physics which instantly means you have to be shot multiple times to even be downed in the first place unlike real life if I was to shot you with a shotgun you would be downed instantly no questions asked but with the GTA physics it takes 2-4 shotgun bullets to down you so the whole excuse of I was shot multiple times doesn't work here as the physics mean we have to shot a lot to put you down you need to remember the game's physics. 

on the second point about RPing death, the only reason people want to rp death is to avoid jail not to rp not to have fun its to avoid a jail sentence you can all say it's not but It really is cuz no one wants to spend 2hrs in the current prison as there is nothing to do, take this into mind if there was a rule that stated "If you die you have to restart your entire character's story" like real life if you die you don't respawn which means NO ONE would want to rp death NO ONE AT ALL but because you die and can instantly continue your rp, dying isn't an issue. Yes at the moment the prison is very boring but we all know that's changing and things are getting added so there is stuff to do in the prison and the one point I agree on is if you log off your timer doesn't go down I think it should go down just at a slower rate. You all need to see that the GTA physics don't allow what your asking and the DeathRP is just a cheat to get out of a jail sentence.

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so make an exception or rule which states the RP death. 

It isn't very smart in terms of common sense to "add the bandage" to the guy, who got shot and took 20 smg bullets into the chest and head, even tho you call it a loophole to not get jailed.

 

edit: just closing the thread or saying we dont need to do anything is just a lazy way to bury the thread. there is a problem and somehow it needs to be solved, rather making it clear in the rulebook or making a separate anouncement of these things being accepted or not.

Also a lack of RP quality in the PD was stated in the multiple threads. in fact, what did the PD do after those problems? have they made a single meeting to discuss those problems ICly or did they make any changes OOCly? I know a few admins are there playing as a cops, I want to hear their side of story.

Edited by DISCO
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How about we make this real simple and if you want to RP death, you get CK'd and need to make a new character if surviving 20 SMG shots is such an issue?

And why do I not hear people complaining about surviving crashing into a solid wall going 200kph?

All promoting death rp being used without CKing on a high level would do is encourage "let me just shoot at 8 officers while alone so I have no consequences after they fill me full of bullets."

Gunfights should not be a way to remove consequences, because we all know what people would choose when faced with the option of either losing a pistol worth $2k and a radio or spending an hour+ in jail.

Prison is both an inRP and ooRP consequence, because consequences need to be placed on the player for messing up while playing a high-risk, high-reward roleplay style.  I don't know about you, but I'm not looking for a deathmatch game-mode here.  That's all promoting RP death like this would do, is turn this into a deathmatch game-mode.

Edited by Taedolf
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I had an issue the other day where I was caught in the crossfire between cops and their suspect, instead of trying to save me they just left me bleeding out to arrest the suspect (there was about 8 officers there). I have no doubt in my mind that if I was a suspect they would do everything in their power to keep me alive. But because I wasn't going to jail they just left me there.

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I will leave a few numbers, you want to discuss realism and expecting the Police to hold a higher level of Roleplay that is acceptable but offer good Roleplay to the police officers and we notice, I often reward people who provide good rp instead of /do dead. The people that give me good rp and don't instantly expect or demand Death, are noted down, and if they do it a couple times provide good rp, then I let them have death rp on some. The less they ask the more they get it from me, and a lot of PD are the same, we keep track of players that are fun to RP with, and those that just go straight to /b. We are here to have fun also, we choose a different type of RP, but a lot of us have alts in criminal lives and we know both sides.


So a few numbers from the USA.

323million people.
in the last 26 years there have been 90mass shootings.

Of the 33,594 deaths in the usa in 2016, 14,415 where cause by guns, 71 of which were from mass shootings. 
so now if we convert this to numbers reflective of our server population... say 323 people (easy numbers) that is 1 player per 1million people in the usa. meaning that in 100 IC years there would be a total of 1.4 murders caused by guns. Now in our lovely city of los santos there are hundreds of people killed a IC day.

A few more numbers to consider. We will use Los Angeles as our benchmark. 271 homicides in 2016, for a city with a population of 4million in the same year (+/- its an estimate I didn't read the entire census) that is one death for every 14,760 people in the city. Meaning our population of 323... would mean 2 people die every 100 years. we see hundreds of deaths every day. 

Now if we look at PD population based on deaths due to firearms. 24.6 officers per 10k people (LA ratio). with 271 deaths per year... total police is 9,850 officers to handle 271 murders in the city per year.

So if we assume 100 murders per 4 days in LS(extremely conservative here guys).... That means 9,125 murders a year (for a population of 300ish people) so now if we look at cops to deaths and use that as a guide suggesting how many officers should be in the city compared to murders that occur (assuming everyone whos not a cop or medic is a criminal) based on the above ratios.... there should be 1 cop for every 1.2 murders.

So I leave my final thought after all that.... the LSPD has currently roughly 80 people, maximum I have seen on (excluding cadet academies) at any given time, (since January when I joined) was 15 players on duty... this was on a day when the server hit 230 players. The number of calls that day was in the range of 30 pd calls, and 20md calls. (these calls cycle after 30 ooc minutes on the computers so they aren't old) That is 50calls for 15cops and 5 medics to deal with in 30minutes. People get upset when pd or md don't come to their calls instantly, this is why. 
So if you want to hold the police department to a higher standard of RP, to the point of realism, please return the favor, and don't just go shoot or try and kidnap cops for a simple speeding ticket, or a traffic stop. Don't cause needless shoot outs. You have one life, fear for it, fight to stay alive rather then instantly /do hes dead.

On another note, I really enjoy pulling up to a shooting, shooting a person, analyze their wounds and find a list 10 items long, and only 2 are fresh (meaning I did them) but somehow he survived the first 8 shots in the head and spine that are healing already, but my shot in his left leg is the reason he dies.

 

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Roleplaying death is always asked for and when it is denied, people complain. 

Medics have no say in the matter if PD has denied death, so we are forced to treat a suspect, who usually isn’t co-operative whatsoever and just complains in OOC chat.

The amount of times I’ve had to remind people to respond to RP while I see them constantly type in /b is ridiculous. They are making it harder and less fun for the medic by constantly arguing and bickering.

 

I’d also like to mention that this topic is less of a server suggestion and more of a discussion / rant.

Edited by otilane
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There was a shootout at taco 4 days ago we've killed many officers, 2 of the them complied were not shot and one of them placed a charge on most of us, including Jay Gamble, and most of us were wearing a mask at all the times and most of us were not in our own vehicles ( so vehicle registration plate doesn't help, but if the driver is masked you can't know if its stolen)

 

I was also pulled OVER by an officer that is a moderator on the server at one of the checkpoints and I've realized I don't have a drivers license so I just drove off and I call 911 and reported that my car was stolen. Later I find that I'm wanted for felony evasion and I /pm the officer how did he know it was me and he told me that " Wearing a mask doesn't make you invisible" 

 

There is completely nothing I can do expect go to jail or not get arrested as long as I can because of their metagaming and somehow when I /report this I'm told its an IC

issue.

 

I also had cases where I was shot 3 times in the head and they did not let me RP Death

Edited by verydoge12
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As far as RPing death goes, people will always complain if the decision is left to another player, so why not let the server decide?

We already have /analysewounds which shows where the player got shot (e.g leg or head)
Why not add in a code that gives certain wounds (e.g. head) a percentage to be considered "fatal", if they wound is fatal then the player can death rp, if its not fatal then they cant death rp.

Example: player does /analysewounds and sees they got shot in the head, and theres a 10% chance that the wound is considered fatal and therefore the player can death rp if they wish. ("shot to the head (fatal)")

The players cant complain that they think the decision is unfair as it was decided by a computer.

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As a cop character and a medic, I have to say i've been asked to RP death non stop, it is our choice whether or not we allow that, in most cases it is going to be a no simply because criminals ask it non stop if they have one shot even remotely close to the head or anything like that, if we granted death rp to every criminal who asked we would never send anyone to prison, simply put criminals want to abuse the fact that they can die and not have to deal with anything, in the long run death rp ruins rp for others, think about this, you have a person we send to prison and they do the sentence and later on they're going to think more about what they do, from robbing a store to kidnapping someone, they're going to give that more thought making the rp better for pd/md and criminals, because the more you guys can rp the better time we have as well, it's a two way street, we're less likely to grant a death rp to someone especially if we see them just constantly murdering cops, rp is rp it's meant to be fun and a lot of the time we have fun, but a lot of the time it's a massive annoyance showing up and people just thinking they can death rp and then arguing in /b about it until they eventually leave and once we have to transport them from md they're beyond non compliant and insanely over doing it, whether its running while in cuffs and being able to get into random vehicles without rp, or them just trying to annoy us to the fullest of their ability. At the end of the day as someone who's been a criminal but also in pd and md, I can see prison is causing for better rp, anytime I was arrested I would think more about what I was doing instead of just doing it.

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It would be great if fatal injuries cause people to have red nametags indicating they are dead, if they are dead the healthbar simply drops faster allowing people enough time to loot the body before they despawn, while not forcing the person to sit there for ages waiting to respawn. And yellow names for injuries where the person can be saved, with a slower healthbar drop rate to allow for medical RP. I'm sure this is doable as the script does show where the person has been hit with /analysewounds (which would be the deciding factor that says whether the person could live or not). This would solve any arguement like this. The only issue is I don't know exactly how accurate the hit boxes are.

We just need something like that script wise that indicates whether the person is savable or not, I mean yeah we do have the analysewounds command but even if the bullets aren't anywhere 'fatal' people still say 'well I would bleed out'.

Edited by MReefer
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Personally, I let people RP death if they demonstrate good roleplay. 

If you're the type of RP'er that will immediately say "RP death" in /b as soon as I run up to your body then I am, under no circumstances, letting you RP death. I will usually let people RP death if I have shot them with a shotgun or heavy sniper, because that would rip you apart IRL, but again, if you don't act courteous to other players or give others some good RP then I won't let you. 

Death RP should be an award for good RP, just as we reduce the sentences of those that demonstrate good RP. Death RP is not there for criminals to escape the consequence of your actions, if you don't want to go to prison then it';s quite simple, RP smarter. I have known multiple criminals on this server that almost never go to prison, why? Because they actually RP'ly avoid antagonising the police, they avoid the police, they RP'ly don't want anything to do with the police and they RP'ly make steps to avoid getting detained. Some of them have run entire gangs and haven't got caught, because they do what criminals do IRL, which is to minimise their exposure to the police.

Whereas a lot of criminals, usually the ones to make these types of threads, don't make any steps to avoid drawing attention to themselves, in fact a bunch of them seem to want to maximise their exposure to the police and then expect to RP death to avoid consequences when they're aught. If you're a criminal then you shouldn't be speeding past cops, you shouldn't be hanging around PD, you shouldn't be running up to cruisers and trying to talk to cops for no reason, you should be wanting to avoid cops at all costs and not be witnessed doing any crimes, just like criminals do IRL. 

Edited by Aldari_Tagril
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SUGGESTION DENIED

Thank you for your patience while this suggestion was being reviewed/researched.

After reviewing/researching this suggestion, we have decided to deny it for the following reason(s): 

  • The player did not include any suggestion to solve the issue.

  • Law enforcement players cannot give players death RP anymore based on good RP.

This decision is final. Unless instructed to, do not post another suggestion pertaining to this topic. You will still be able to submit other suggestions on the forums.

Regards,
TheCactus

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