The use of derogatory slurs in VOIP

[Bala]

The topic of this discussion is.. is it time for us as a community to disallow the use of certain derogatory slurs to be used in VOIP?

Personally, this topic has been raised a few times before and to be honest, I was opposed to making it a rule because I'm not fond of limiting roleplay and my honest opinion was and to a degree still is, that certain words or phrases could still be used, responsibly by the person OOC playing the character, to add realism and an extra dimension to roleplay situations. My personal background means that I'm as far away from being any kind of discriminated against minority as you can get. So, i've never been on the end of any real discrimination in my personal life. I don't know what it's like to be on the other end of that insult and I'm not going to pretend I haven't said some of these things in ignorance, because I have. 

That being said, I got into a situation last night when a couple of people were screaming the word "f****t" at each other in close proximity in a situation that I couldn't just remove myself from. It wasn't going to trigger me on a personal level, but it was actually really jarring. For someone that that kind of slur would personally attack, it must be horrendous to be on the other end of that. I'm not a criminal for example, so the insults over VOIP aren't usually based on sexual orientation or race, I don't get exposed to it that much, but having had a chat with some of the community members that are part of the LGBT+ community or different races, that it does happen and it does happen more on the criminal side of things.

Like a number of others, I stream Eclipse on Twitch and people using racist or homophobic slurs over VOIP could potentially compromise my ability to do so. I spoke to a couple other streamers that play here, that don't stream here because of that potential. That's pretty sad.

Ultimately, I'm not trying to push any kind of woke agenda here. The reality is though, use of some of these slurs is going to have an out-of-character impact on people and I think it goes beyond that person being a "snowflake" or this being "the internet". I don't trust some of our player-base to be able to use these slurs in a responsible way, to further roleplay so I do think that we should look at banning their use. All our players have the right to play hate-free but also, all our players have the right to their own personal beliefs, so I'm not trying to change people's outlooks.

I just think it would be in the best interests of the harmony of community in Eclipse if we didn't use those kind of slurs at any point anymore. Set out clearly what is and is not acceptable, remove people that don't live by them rules. Surely, we can all roleplay without it?

[NotOnlyAce]

+1

I completely agree. I think that it should become a well enforced rule that some slurs must be prohibited from usage at all times. It's okay to use regular swear words when you are portraying a character that is living a street life and comes from "the hood". But I don't really see how calling someone a f****t or a n*****, and much similar words help portraying a character. It only portrays your OOC beliefs and how mature of a person you are in real life. At the end of the day we all come here to enjoy our free time and have some fun experience. Saying something like this could instead ruin someone's day which I am and will be very against.

Edited October 11, 2021 by buta

[Ed Johnston]

+1. As someone who deals with this irl, the last thing I want is to log onto eclipse and deal with it here.

 

[Victor Einhart]

While I will always advocate for fewer censors and rules, the thing is a lot of people just can't control themselves and behave like a human being. I've had people speed by my cruiser shouting all sorts of vile shit for no real reason. There needs to be a level of maturity and respect, and frankly it isn't there. There's a place for people saying stuff, for example on Grove street among the Ballas, where it makes sense. However there's a line and I think people cross the line to try and get people angry, and in a RP environment trying to cross that barrier between IC and OOC... and then people start with the slimy "that's my character bro," that isn't acceptable. People who make "troll" characters need to take a real look at themselves and realize that trying to upset other people by constantly being a fuckwit IC is a major problem.

[Xoogle]

+1, you can swear without using racial/homophobic or any of these kind of slurs

[podayoda]

+1 you don't need to use slurs to RP. If you can't RP without it, you're just hiding behind the guise of a character and "keeping it IC". 

[Ultra3D]

-1. As I have started in other post like this is that this is a 18+ games. It is a game where racism, sexism, and racist/derogatory words are build into the game by rock star. I think the current rule of the words being allowed but not overused is fine.

Now when it comes to the twitch thing, People can and do stream. Twicth wont punish unless you are contributing, and if someone is constantly screaming the nword that's already against the rules. Currently the rules are in a weird state and forcing people to learn twitch TOS is just another step not needed.

Edited October 11, 2021 by Ultra3D

[Jayyy]

+1 I am against all kinds of Racism and play a black where character where I choose not to use certain words as IRL I am white and wouldn't use RP as an excuse to allow certain words. However, If someone can convincly play a character that would be using certain words I do not see an issue with it, if it really is within character and not using it because just because it is not a rule break.
I feel the same with homophobic slurs. If it is within character and that person is truely playing that character to a high level then its difficult to argue it.

[Freclan]

agreed with this for years, there's just no need to be called slurs in a game anymore.

[gmtavares]

I have mixed feelings about this.

I feel to a certain degree slurs should be allowed for characters whose main focus is to be racist for example, of which there are a few.

 

Nevertheless, I feel that in the current rules I ask someone that is insulting me with slurs to stop and they say "cut /b".

 

I just feel we need a bit more strict enforcement on when they can be used.

 

Maybe one way is to make it so you can only say them in VoIP once per interaction and otherwise have to type it.

[LeftSharkie]

-1

 

This is a game for adults. If you're a snowflake, that's on you. As long as people are not actually being racist/homophobic etc then it should be allowed. Censorship is not something I personally support, I will always support freedom of speech, whatever it is being said.

Edited October 12, 2021 by LeftSharkie

[Bala]

15 hours ago, LeftSharkie said:

-1

This is a game for adults. If you're a snowflake, that's on you. As long as people are not actually being racist/homophobic etc then it should be allowed. Censorship is not something I personally support, I will always support freedom of speech, whatever it is being said.

You don't really play here anymore Sharkie so you don't support anything.

 

[SkyeFuryy]

I disagree, whilst I don't approve of people using homophobic/racial slurs, I feel that RP needs to be, to an extent, realistic. Which means that some people will use the "N" word, some people will be homophobic... it adds richness and character depth, and promotes great RP when used correctly. 

The system in place at the moment allows for people who feel uncomfortable to ask the player to stop. By simply asking the person to stop in /b should be enough to make it stop. If they continue, it is a server rulebreak and can be reported. I used to ICly work at the DOC, and usually when somebody asks somebody to stop using a certain derogatory word in /b, it stops. Often, they are not aware about the rule which stipulates they have to stop if it is requested, and following a brief reminder of the rule, the player generally stops anyway. We had one case where a player did not stop, so we reported in /report in-game, and an admin came pretty quickly and had a chat with the player; Then, the derogatory slurs stopped. Problem solved. 

As far as streaming goes, I personally choose not to because of the potential ban I could get. But that's ok, if I wanted to stream GTA RP I would choose another server. It just so happens, I chose Eclipse for what it is at the moment because I love the server as it is. I would not feel comfortable asking the server to adjust to us streamers.

Anyway, that's just my two pence. 

[Krish Roshan]

-1 yes some slurs shouldnt be used but its an online game where your rp'ing a real life character and it wouldnt make sense to be censored, instead the rule is already put in place if your offended by something someone says go into /b and let them know

[tuffy]

-1 

Its free speech you should be allowed to say whatever you want. Your literally acting as if it is real life there's should be no sort of censorship, and you should take most things with a grain of salt.

Edited October 13, 2021 by tuffy

[Jufro]

Any forms of censorship is an attack on free speech. -100

[Ty Shipley]

-1

[griffinwd]

-1 In real life you cannot control people saying slurs, it's just life even though it upsets you - try and get away from the person, if the person keeps harassing you and it comes to an ooc level, report them.

Edited October 13, 2021 by griffinwd

[Hanro]

Unfortunately I don't agree. Free speech is paramount, especially in a roleplay community that tries to emulate "real life". I feel that being asked over /b to stop the slurs is a good balance that if ignored, it turns into a rule break. Additionally, I do think that people who do it on purpose to skirt the rules, using their OOC feelings IC need to take a step back and have a look at themselves and realise their childish actions.

[Bala]

I’m not sure that free speech equates to a license to use racial slurs and it’s lazy to think so.

Put yourself in the shoes of someone that is subjected to this kind of abuse in person on a regular basis offline. They come in game to enjoy themselves and have fun, not to have to listen to the same shit.

Yeah, you can ask someone to stop in /b but at that point, the damage is done. They’ve already heard it.

We have lots of black and Asian players in this community. We have lots of LGBT+ players in this community. They don’t need to be subjected to hearing the same kind of shit they have to put up with offline because little Jimmy can’t control himself.

People saying ‘WeLl ItS rOlEpLaY’. — Alright, bet. Next time I see you in game, my character is tugging some dick and moaning loudly into the microphone because that’s all roleplay right? 

While we are at it, maybe remove the gross roleplay rule altogether or allow noncing on the server too? After all, this is supposed to be realistic right? There’s noncing and sexual assault in real life after all right? 

What.. it’s not necessary for me to realistically roleplay a chronic masterbator with a shit fetish and it’s making you feel uncomfortable out of character that I’m moaning into my microphone? Damn, you snowflake, how dare you limit my roleplay! 

I’m not going to sit here, be a hypocrite and pretend that I have never used racial slurs or even been homophobic at some point. I have and I’m not proud of it at all. I don’t even feel comfortable writing the words without censoring them to make my point. 

We already do not allow certain types of roleplay on the server, for good reason, even with player consent. 

The reality is, calling someone a n****r or a t****y or a f****t in-character is going to effect people negatively OOC. When people are hearing this kind of shit in their personal lives and being actively discriminated against for it, it’s going to have an effect and it’s going to make them not want to log in. 

Yes it’s a roleplay server, but it’s not a roleplay server where people play their characters. I’m sorry but it’s not. 

The right to free speech is abused in this way by people to hide behind their characters and say whatever THEY want to say. 

You could still insult other people, just not using THOSE kinds of slurs.

If you can’t roleplay here without having the freedom to call someone the n word, you need to get better at roleplay and give your head a wobble.

At least snowflakes are original.

[Destuin]

-1 from me also this is a slippery slope to start on. One day we will end up with a banned words glossary. Just be more careful if you want to stream here who you interact with. Why should players have to change there RP to accommodate for your stream?

[piney]

1 hour ago, Bala said:

While we are at it, maybe remove the gross roleplay rule altogether or allow noncing on the server too? After all, this is supposed to be realistic right? There’s noncing and sexual assault in real life after all right? 

I'm sorry, I can appreciate that you are trying to look out for people, but this rubbed me the wrong way. Implying that bad words or slurs are comparative to or a slippery slope to sexual assault and ped*philia, or that a person who isn't for censoring all slurs must also be okay with those things, is insane. These two issues are a million miles apart.

 

Now as it's been mentioned, there is a rule in place to protect people from having to hear a certain slur over and over if it does affect them negatively. And in the case that the person being asked to stop doesn't or mocks them, it is considered a rulebreak and can be reported to admins. If you are a person who are sensitive to certain words (and no shade or shame in that), utilize the rule already in place. 

I understand that people go on the server to have a good time and that some use it as escapism from their day to day, but at the same time, both the server and GTA itself as a game contains dark themes. Crime and violence is a huge theme for example, and I don't think it's realistic to expect the server to be all cozy and family friendly. 

So for me, banning specific words entirely is a -1 unfortunately. Not everyone are affected by slurs (I have no issues with feminine slurs personally) and those who are have the right to ask for them not to be used. I think claiming that "if they hear the word once, the damage is already done" isn't a very healthy viewpoint.

 

 

[Waryerz]

If you can't enjoy roleplay without the use of slurs, it's no longer in-character. 

[Bala]

2 hours ago, piney said:

I'm sorry, I can appreciate that you are trying to look out for people, but this rubbed me the wrong way. Implying that bad words or slurs are comparative to or a slippery slope to sexual assault and ped*philia, or that a person who isn't for censoring all slurs must also be okay with those things, is insane. These two issues are a million miles apart.

Now as it's been mentioned, there is a rule in place to protect people from having to hear a certain slur over and over if it does affect them negatively. And in the case that the person being asked to stop doesn't or mocks them, it is considered a rulebreak and can be reported to admins. If you are a person who are sensitive to certain words (and no shade or shame in that), utilize the rule already in place. 

I understand that people go on the server to have a good time and that some use it as escapism from their day to day, but at the same time, both the server and GTA itself as a game contains dark themes. Crime and violence is a huge theme for example, and I don't think it's realistic to expect the server to be all cozy and family friendly. 

So for me, banning specific words entirely is a -1 unfortunately. Not everyone are affected by slurs (I have no issues with feminine slurs personally) and those who are have the right to ask for them not to be used. I think claiming that "if they hear the word once, the damage is already done" isn't a very healthy viewpoint.

People using certain slurs rubs me the wrong way. There was no implication, it was a statement. 

We already outlaw certain types of roleplay on this server for good reason. One of those reasons being that it makes people feel incredibly uncomfortable OOC to be involved in, either as a bystander or as an active participant in said roleplay. Using the N word or calling someone a t**p/t****y because they have a masculine voice playing a female character or calling someone a f****t provoke similar levels of discomfort in players as those other types of roleplay so why would we allow it?

The rule that is already in place is in my view inadequate.
Once it's gotten to the stage of reporting it, it's already been said. That person on the other end of it has already heard it, likely a number of times. 

Before and during making this topic, I've spoken with a few people who have been on the receiving end of things and the outlook is negative. That it's something unfortunate that they just have to get on with and they don't really want to speak up, for fear it might be used against them later. In a report to an extent, you have to defend why it's offensive to you and these are KaReN issues, they're massive problems.

Yeah GTA and the server contains dark themes, but we've already stuck a fork in the sand and established certain roleplay isn't allowed. Some of the comments here are that it's a slippery slope, what slope is that? That you can't go to the easy options that will cause actual issues for people on an OOC level, like it's a fucking COD lobby? Can you really not find more creative ways to get your own roleplay across than bringing out the N Word, really?

It's an 18 rated game, but we have a lot of teenagers playing on the server, so where's the line? People can't really be that dense to the world around them now, surely? This isn't 10-15 years ago where anything goes and people had to hide themselves.

I'd rather us lose players that cannot live without being able to use the N Word than decent players that are put off playing because people can't stop themselves saying insults.
Perhaps if folk spent more time thinking about what they want to say, before saying it, we'd be better off.

[alexalex303]

I think @Victor Einhart summed up the issue fairly well.

The fact of the matter is that there is a place for that kind of roleplay, and it can make sense and it can absolutely make a roleplay scenario better. However, the issue seems to be that certain people in the community instead use it to try to make people feel uncomfortable out of character, or because its funny or whatever. 

In the current environment, with the current attitude of the player base, I can see a strong case for restricting it entirely.

However, any comments from people made in this thread either directly or implying that acting in a certain way in-character means that you're really that way deep down out-of-character just shows either a lack of ability or a lack of willingness to engage in portraying a character instead of just a power fantasy based on your real persona.

Edited October 13, 2021 by alexalex303