Ultra3D

I dont know if it can be answered here but I have questions that I talked with a staff about which lead to a brick wall. I had my lab marked as "NRP" a few weeks back and I spend about 2 hours with staff getting it to a point where it was considered realistic and that it followed all the rules. Now my build is considered NRP not because it looks unrealistic but because the wording in the rule is very vague. "a build with the intention of having a ridiculous number of tables" How many tables is a "ridiculous number"? I am willing to send screen shots of my final build that was approved a few weeks back that was 90% free space that was not used for cooking. I just need clarification because I think the wording is way to vague. Edit: Another issue I have is the argument "Use the space provided" The issue is not the space, its the props in the way we cant move. IF each building was just walls/floor/roof and if we wanted a bed etc we would place them our self. This would make alot more sense and allow more people to stop cooking in 500k apartments and set up in 1gs. I personally think this way would allows for more realistic labs and for more customization on the civilian side of things.

I personally think to fix this add a system to allowed time serverd, basically if you are charged for 3 hours but you spend 1 hour in a pending state you only go to DOC for 2 hours

This happened to me recently aswell (Not my POV but shows it happening) https://streamable.com/15gpql

New Responsibility After recent event, we had a major change internally. This lead to a leadership movement and goals changing. Word spread quick and groups thought we were weak. Some groups more than others started to test their luck with us but [REDACTED] took it to far. The used reasons that made ZERO sense to start attacking us while we were down. But they did not attack us in any normal way. They attacked our locations. They would sell drugs to our dealers making them not do any business with us. They did the same with our mechanics. This caught us off guard first as we gave them no reason to attack but as the days went on more and more information started to funnel its way down. We found out that the new group [REDACTED] and a smaller group [REDACTED] was working with [REDACTED] to remove us from the city. Everyone knows that on their own they are incapable of fighting us with weapons but when it comes to drugs they can succeed in their goal. This lead to high command looking at people to delegate work. This fell on myself and Marcus. We were assigned to managing the flow of drugs coming in and out. So we started working and strategizing what to do next. We went back and forth on what we could do to become more self sufficient. We implemented a few ideas that have gotten us as a whole back on track but we still got a long ways to go. In the mean time we did what we know best. Hold our ground. [REDACTED] are not known as fighters and have purposely hid from us. However, every once in a while when we catch them out in the open we act. This lead to members from [REDACTED] claiming "We can't beat you in guns fights, but we can and will outsmart you in drugs". Well sniffing coke everyday only last so long. Since being appointed to this role I have tried my best to get thing running smoothly but as all things go you hit a few bumps. As we are in a active "drug war" getting people into the war mentality takes time. So day by day I will continue to work towards making Russians what it once was and getting us away from being depended on luxury's that can be taken from us at any moment. (Thanks for reading)

Well based on the 2ed picture you are in DOC, so fines my G

This is why Im just going to keep to ingame reports. The risk to redemption" is not good enough at this point. I don't know what changed but it seems like staff get you for the littlest things like saying "I don't hear them if you get what I mean". Like I was punishment free for over a year now every week its something new. So this is what its come to. I don't see this thread doing anything at this point to change/benefit the community so can it be archived.

At this point I want staff to close this, its a useless topic and I just cant be asked at this point. Even when I request a report be dropped 3 times when Im asked why and told they push the report through and I receive a punishment because of a missunderstanding. Im done reporting as it is a wait of time and will eventually get myself banned. This is what reports have come to, you cant even drop report anymore and every report, valid or not just leads to issues so reporting is usless.

I agree, excessive /b is an issue which I have contributed to. In certain situational tensions and frustrations are high and it happens. However, lately I have been seeing situations where someone had broken a rule or done something that ruins an experience and when you /report 3 or 4 you get 0 response till the situation is to old for anything to happen. I personally try not to say "save POV" for two reasons, one being its not allowed anymore and two if I want someone to save POV I pm them, but I have been in a few situation recently where I have openly got into arguments in /b with people regarding RP situations. Im not saying Its right but its both party's at fault for participating. Edit - what I can say though is the situations that caused me to go into /b ruined my Rp/experience more than seeing the ooc text so I feel more than just the ooc needs to be fixed/handled to improve RP.

Well maybe im coming at this from the wrong angle. I can agree that during wars there is always going to be increased reports because 90% of the time it becomes a IC and OOC war but maybe you are right about there being more reports but maybe the issue is not the amount of reports but how many are being accepted. I don't know if you even agree with this but maybe the reason that people think reports are a bigger and bigger issue is not because of the quantity but how many lately have been going through even when similar situation get denied. I can provide examples of this happening but even if not I still feel that more and more reports get accepted and more and more reports skip the two partys trying to work it out.

How during the Zeta days people handled things ingame. Now people get reported for saying "fuck you" once in ooc. So I believe you are very wrong.

Its worse. Even since December of 2019 when I joined I have seen petty reports skyrocket and rules become more strict.

-1. I feel the DM rules along with others should be not as strict but when it comes to the time you have to basically blast someone without talking is fine. 3 hours is long enough.

An Example Misunderstanding leading to punishments. Things were going good, I continued to do what I needed to do while we all worked towards our goal. It was a normal day when I woke up to my name getting called over the radio to meet in Paleto. I had some ideas what it could be about but when I finally arrived I couldn't have been more off. The meeting started with questions but slowly turned into a serious talk. Word got out that I had plans of [REDACTED]. Talking lead to more talking and the word spread. More people that shouldnt have known about [REDACTED] knew and it looked bad. I was then told unfortunate news that [REDACTED] demanded a finger and that I be marked. After talking back and forth and getting everything that needed to be said out I looked down. I understood I made a mistake by not only giving to much information but trusting people not to spread it. But the time came. We all walked over to my car and prepared. I stood there, silent, thinking about what I had done and what I was going to do next. Then I was told to place my hand onto the hood. It was expressed from the start that the higher ups felt it was not completely my fault but that it was partially theirs for giving out more information than they should. They said if it was up to them no punishment would be issued by that [REDACTED] demanded it. I made sure they knew I took nothing from that situation in vein. I was not mad at them for what they had to do and I was not mad at who made them do it. I was only mad at myself and the person that got me into this situation. After this everyone but myself drove off, shortly after one of my old friends Pablo showed up. He had watched the whole thing go down and wanted to know what just happened and why. I sat there looking at the bleeding empty space where my finger was as I told him. After thinking for a bit I used a IFAK to wrap myself up while Pablo cleaned the blood off my car. We spoke for a bit longer while I processed to say what just happened. I then called a command member to discuss what to do next. I was told to wait till we can have a proper meeting and to lay low in the meantime. Me and Pablo then decided to move to a more secure/hidden location where we talked further about the whole situation and about how he felt. It lead to more conversations about our past and seeing things change through the times. We ended it just agreeing that we will see how things play out and stay true to what we believe in and our goals. (Thanks for reading!)

Ya but this is what I mean where since its a "grey zone" I still get punished. Just because its a slap on the wrist server wise its 100% going to prevent me from getting back into PD. Everything that goes onto someones record affects them no matter how big or small. But now Im just not going to do any kind up build up like this no matter the time because all it takes is a weird semantics issue and I have DM 1. Not worth my time so now my RP suffers.

I want to add this an an example to my situation that's continuing to worsen. Reference (THIS IS NOT MENT TO THROW SHADE AT THE STAFF, JUST TO GIVE AN EXAMPLE) In this report the reporting party claimed I killed them over a ticket and provided a very clipped video with 0 context. I then provided 3 days worth of information that lead to the final even of me killing them after they pulled me over while armed. I was then punished because it did not happen in one day. This not only continues to worsen my record but now it just tells me that if im fucked with by the same person day after day it does not matter because it all needs to be within the same day. Like at this point I dont know. Its either im scared to do anything so I dont get banned or I hold back while days of build up happen, Just to be punished anyways. So i"m personally just going to not put myself into any situation or just let people do shit ic because I'm done getting punished for trying to rp.

why not have all of them open? The fact its not a NCZ makes sense for criminals and the more places scattered around helps everyone for depositing large amounts of money/taking out large amount of money without needing to go to Paleto/LS

Ok well even if you kept the same appeals system where you need to appeal to be unbanned, why not pair it with a degrading punishment thing so its a mix and a middle ground.

I mean like I said I don't see a benefit of doing it that way, getting a 30 day ban and being banned for perm but unbanned after 30 days is no difference

This is all coming from personal experiences. I have been apart of and staffed on other servers/games. All of them do the system that I mentioned where punishments stay for logging reasons but the actual negative from them degrade and unless someone is cheating/DSO/other major rulebreak the punishment is never permanent aka time based bans. I have never seen servers that do punishments this way have issues with rule breakers. Also when it comes to what you mentioned about a lowkey way yall determine if a person should receiving a permanent ban or a lengthy admin jail is not done enough. This may be a bias opinion but for me personally I received my NRP 4 on 11/Jun/20 07:45 PM and received my NRP 5/6 (Happened in the span of a week) on 21/Aug/21 & 26/Aug/21 07:04. This is 436 days between rulebreaks .I was not given such benefit and was banned for a month+. This situation has affected me before/after this ban. If I receive any more punishments any time soon I will be immediately re banned. More and more recently I need to ask in ooc if something is right and Ok and sometimes need to /report 1 where 90% of the time I get no response so I just stop RP.

Backstory - So after recent events I have been thinking about how rules breaks are handled on this server/community vs many other community I have been apart of. About 2 months ago I was banned for NRP 6. I have been apart of this server for nearly two years at this point. About a week before my ban I had only ever received 4 punishments. All of these were within the first 3-4 months of my joining the server. This came from negligence of knowing the rules and general mistakes. After my NRP 4 I took time to thoroughly read through the rules to fully understand them. Along side this I frequently watched player reports to see the outcomes to get that little extra understanding of the rules. This lead my to not receiving any punishments for over a year. However, within a 5 day period I was reported for two separate situations that were accepted. I have come to terms with them and I'm not using this to say they were wrong. After those two rule breaks being put onto my record I was immediately banned. After speaking with staff outside/inside the ban appeal, arguing that I feel being banned for NRP 6 with my last punishment being well over a year ago made no sense. But after trying I was denied and spent over a month trying to get back onto the server. This lead to me being removed from PD along with stopping a lot of things I had planned with my two active characters. Since being unbanned I have been able to join a few groups and start RPing on my criminal character again while working with Salvation and now Russians. Coming up I hope to be able to reapply for PD and continue working on that character aswell. Discussion section - The topic I wanted to have imput on and just a general dialog is how this server treats rulebreaks and punishments. Currently, if you receive any punishment. agreeing with it or not, stays on your record (Admin Logs) forever. They do not degrade/go away no matter the time. The only way of getting a punishment removed is if the admin who punished you or someone higher than them feels it was an incorrect punishment. This scenario almost never happen with the common one being you just having to suck it up and hopefully learn from the situation. From my personal experience this is the only server I have ever seen handled punishments in this way. I personally agree people should be punished if they break rules but in situation where someone makes mistakes throughout their time on the server can still lead to being banned no matter how much or how little they have contributed to the server. Not only do I personally feel that a system where punishment degrade over time or where if you do become banned its a timed ban for 7days etc,, I feel that when people get into a situation like me where they are on DM 1, NRP 5 or recently unbanned it not only affects their RP but it affects the people they are around and how they continue on the server. What I mean by this is when people get their first punishment they will probably learn from it but still continue with their RP like nothing really happened. However, when someone gets to the stage like I mentioned above they more than likely get into a NO RP mindset/scared mindset. People will actively avoid situation where they feel someone may report. They might become more aggressive towards people who break rules against this or they may just stop playing all together being scared that they may be banned. From my personal experience the week before I was banned I got very angry at the fact I might be banned after nearly two years of playing. I got overly annoyed when someone broke any kind of rule near my and basically stopped all my rp/progression on my character I was playing at the time. Since coming back I have wanted to report every thing I felt was a rule break but have stopped my self almost every time by either taking a break or speaking with the person I'm considering reporting. This mindset comes from being a person recently unbanned and being angry at seeing people breaking rules. This leads me to my final topic I want to touch on and start a discussion on. Currently people report for almost everything. This had lead to a situation where one person/group reports another person/group and the reported people get annoyed and try to find a reason to report the other person/group. This turns into a large scale report mentality that ruins RP situation. I have seen other and have myself been mid RP and stopped to go into OOC and ask can I do this, is this allowed, why is ____ happening. This alone slows down RP and the natural flow of things but is almost necessary to prevent being reported. Final thoughts - I hope we can comment our opinions in a way that can carry a conversation to either find a possible solution or just discuss thoughts on how we can improve the things I mentioned. I would like to add/link another person who has voiced their opinion/fix to this solution @Bala inside their post Introduce Expiry Period for Rule Break Punishments. As it currently stands, a player's account record has no fixed date and if you fall foul of the rules enough times, eventually you will find yourself being banned. Nowhere on the server is it more likely that you will find yourself on the wrong end of a game-play punishment than by playing as a criminal. More conflicts, more means to cause damage and increasingly high stakes and a win-at-all costs mentality that is very much a part of the criminal DNA mean that punishments for a lot of people are inevitable. With no expiry date on those punishments, the likelihood of a severe punishment such as a ban is higher. Pretty soon, playing as a criminal becomes a stressful OOC experience. If I get you into trouble, you're going to take that personally. Your friends are going to back you, my friends are going to back me. They will report each other and so on and so on. We've all seen this in the report sections. Introduce a system where different rule breaks i.e. deathmatching, non-roleplay, metagaming have different expiry dates. Basically, that they would no longer be considered active punishments after a certain period. Currently, if you receive two deathmatch punishments, that leads to a ban and it's permanent, unless appealed. There is currently no fixed period where that first ban doesn't count towards two bans. So, for example, if I got a DM punishment in November 2020 and I got a DM punishment today, I'd be banned. In normal circumstances, that's a deterrent for not re-offending but that's failing to take into consideration a number of factors which can increase the likelihood of that second punishment. These can be things like getting into a new faction war, getting into an argument with someone, reporting someone first etc. The sad reality is that, from the criminal factions I've spoken to, they find themselves watering down what they do because they don't want to get banned and as a result, the server become less entertaining to play. Less impactful punishments would have a shorter expiry period than the more serious ones, but they would be fixed. For example, If deathmatch punishment lasted for say six months, non-roleplay punishments might last for four months. It's still taking punishments serious enough that they retain their value but it's also easing that feeling of a piano hovering over your head. The current system is too rigid and it is a genuine concern for players on the server, especially criminals. "

+1

I agree, that's why I feel how its all handled should change like differing call types or chances of no calls. Like maybe when a table blows compared to how much drugs are still backlogged in the cook determine how big the explosion is and say it blows with 1-2 drugs left there could be a chance of no 911 but still if someones close to the table could still get hurt/injured and would need to decide to call for backup/MD to survive or risk the chance of dying and the rest of their tables blowing leading to more chance PD getting notified.

This whole realism argument does nothing for the conversation. Everything can be more "realistic" Like making/manufacturing drugs in small scale don't use tables. Pounds of crack/cocaine can be made in a single bedroom. On the server for scripting reasons we are limited to tables and the tables take up alot of space. That's why people don't really cook in 1/2gs because there is not enough space to be efficient.

I don't think people should cook in apartment. But I feel criminals should get a proper place we can work out of. Own. or run where we can place tables in a proper way. The main reason people use apartment is because criminals cant afford 2+ million businesses so the next best thing, which is is a 400k apartment. If houses were empty, AKA no props not placed by the home owner more people would cook in 1gs. But again apartments cooking is the only affordable way to do it effectively.