Levi208 Posted May 13, 2019 Report Posted May 13, 2019 (edited) As the title states I think the scam-limit needs to make a return in some form or way. Over the past few weeks the server has caught on with this update in ruling and as a result I did a little test, it turns out that most of the people selling cars for seemingly cheap prizes through bleeter (Think of V12's for 200-215k or Elegies for 220k) and the vast majority of them refused to do it through High-end in a legitimate way, even when I offered to pay the full 5% tax ontop of the agreed amount, it's obvious that they're not even planning to sell that car. I don't see why the /tradevehicle script was added if it's like this. I understand some people might like this rule but consider if you just got taken for a big amount, trying to buy your first house or first serious car and yoink, 'sall gone. You'd be liable to quit all together. So in my opinion we should reintroduce a scamming limit, updated to perhaps 50-100k, whatever is decided on. This still allows people to scam, but within reason. We can buy houses and cars again without the 5% tax and without a garantuee it's going to be stolen. An alternative to flat-out reintroducing the scamming limit, is through IC means. Even before the scamming limit was a thing, I used to RP (And watched others do this) signing a binding contract at the bank (An NCZ) where both players RPly put their signatures on said contract, if this is signed by both parties perhaps it could be validated by admins should it be stolen. Whatever was stolen would be repo'd and you could serve an IC time for commiting fraud. Edited May 14, 2019 by Levi208 Thought of something. 3
ThePro Posted May 13, 2019 Report Posted May 13, 2019 Yeah, I saw people selling maxed elegies for 240k, it's so obvious scam and it annoys me. This has to be fixed in a way. +1
Scott Cleverley Posted May 13, 2019 Report Posted May 13, 2019 Yeah, I work in PD and I got call for scammed car. I mean you can deal with it ic'ly reporting it on gov website and detectives will look into it, But still I mean it's really low rp to get keys, sign papers and to run off with the money.
Levi208 Posted May 13, 2019 Author Report Posted May 13, 2019 Quoting IRL doesn't really apply that well here, since this is OOC scamming. I wouldn't mind this scamming if PD were actually able to arrest said person and RECLAIM the stolen property but to my knowledge this is currently not the case so you can't really compare it to real life. IRL you wouldn't scam a sports car from someone like that without facing serious charges and obviously getting it removed from you. Nor would you buy a house through paperwork at a bank and watch the broker drive off and face zero consequence. 1
BrockOlly Posted May 13, 2019 Report Posted May 13, 2019 I think we just need an IC way to deal with scams 2
alexalex303 Posted May 13, 2019 Report Posted May 13, 2019 If you want to sell a car without the risk of getting scammed, pay the high end fee. If you want to sell a house with the risk of getting scammed, pay the fee. There is no risk if you don't want to commit tax evasion, and if you do, it comes with risks. Not an OOC issue. 4
Levi208 Posted May 13, 2019 Author Report Posted May 13, 2019 13 minutes ago, alexalex303 said: If you want to sell a car without the risk of getting scammed, pay the high end fee. If you want to sell a house with the risk of getting scammed, pay the fee. There is no risk if you don't want to commit tax evasion, and if you do, it comes with risks. Not an OOC issue. Except it isn't tax evasion to sell someone a used car through direct means rather than an external dealership that takes a cut. I'll agree though the rule wouldn't need to be changed if PD were enabled to take action through IC means.
Yputi Posted May 13, 2019 Report Posted May 13, 2019 I've had some stuff earlier about this. My opinion: - Clearify the rule (so don't change it, but clarify and make sure every staff memeber is aware of this rule as it did cost my Schafter V12 back then). - Think about an option to retrieve scammed assets. There is like 0 ways to get it back once gone. NCZ doesnt allow you to use more lethal force and you cant force people to transfer back. For the rest, I think its fine 1
Wifye Posted May 13, 2019 Report Posted May 13, 2019 It's a middle of the field type situation. It would be nice to have a scam limit but on the other hand, it's nice to have high risk large amounts of money potential scams. Having a IC way to pursue charges would be nice. For the current time though, I'm surprised nobody hasn't set up a "trustworthy 3rd party" type business that collects the property/car and money from the seller and buyer to ensure both sides don't get ripped off, for a fee of course. I just hope someone doesn't steal that idea and scams both parties.
Linden Posted May 13, 2019 Report Posted May 13, 2019 There needs to be an IC way to deal with scams.
HighTV Posted May 14, 2019 Report Posted May 14, 2019 (edited) +0 Scamming is being viewed as a crime, but in reality scamming is not a crime. BUT Scamming takes on many forms MANY of which are actually illegal and should be treated as illegal. I don't think scamming should be prevented from happening ICly. I Do think that a NoCrimeZone should prevent people from committing grand larceny, contractual fraud, and other Illegal actions while attempting to legally scam someone. After seeing this report I linked below I think that there should be more investigation before dismissing scamming reports. When two parties mutually sign a legally binding contract inside of an NCZ no parties should be actively committing contractual fraud. Keep in mind I understand "scamming" is ok in an NCZ, however i feel intentionally breaking a contractual agreement(Fraud) is not the same thing as scamming and SHOULD NOT be allowed in an NCZ because its actually Illegal and if this person has the signed contract ICly like this guy does there SHOULD be legal ramifications ICly, but nothings in place for it. 8. No Crime Zones (NCZ) A no crime zone is an area where players may not commit any actions considered crimes. 3. Character Creation and Property Players may not scam or deceive other players out of character for their property. This case below appears as an OOC scam where the scammer Metas the limitations of the NCZ and knows he can Scam there. (i'm not affiliated with this case at all) In my opinion he abuses /do power to convince the other player into thinking he is protected by the Law ICly and the Rules OOCly. When in reality the legal system ICly is dead and the rules OOC forget to mention that all crimes in an NCZ aren't allowed except ones committed while attempting to scam. Edited May 14, 2019 by HighTV
Guest Posted May 14, 2019 Report Posted May 14, 2019 You guys are ignorant af. If you plan to comment without reading the post first why even bother commenting on the post? 11 hours ago, Levi208 said: It turns out that most of the people selling cars for seemingly cheap prizes through bleeter (Think of V12's for 200-215k or Elegies for 220k) and the vast majority of them refused to do it through High-end in a legitimate way, even when I offered to pay the full 5% tax ontop of the agreed amount, it's obvious that they're not even planning to sell that car. This is clearly a scam. I pay extra, you receive what you want, but you don't want to do that in a legitimate way. In real life there are a lot more paperwork to do than just one or two simple commands. OP has a point. Make a contract or something like that to be signed by both people, and tax on that to ensure safety. Like trading in borderlands 2 or some other games. Fee on high end is fine, but don't tax it if the price is lower than the market value for the car. If you sell it for profit, then tax on the capital gain. Quote If, like most people, you are trying to sell your used car for less than you spent on it, then you will not have to pay sales tax. The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) considers all personal vehicles to be capital assets. Selling that vehicle for less than your purchase price is considered a capital loss, which does not need to be reported on tax returns.
MusketDeezNuts Posted May 14, 2019 Report Posted May 14, 2019 -1 Even though I got scammed for 900k~ I still dont want a limit. 1
DimitriS Posted May 14, 2019 Report Posted May 14, 2019 14 hours ago, Wifye said: It's a middle of the field type situation. It would be nice to have a scam limit but on the other hand, it's nice to have high risk large amounts of money potential scams. Having a IC way to pursue charges would be nice. For the current time though, I'm surprised nobody hasn't set up a "trustworthy 3rd party" type business that collects the property/car and money from the seller and buyer to ensure both sides don't get ripped off, for a fee of course. I just hope someone doesn't steal that idea and scams both parties. /me steals your idea No, but for real, in real life people do get scammed, if you'd get scammed ICly then, as people already stated above, it's on you. You as a seller/buyer need to ensure that the other party is willing to give you the stuff, a great example is Wifey's idea for a trustworthy 3rd party that can handle those type of trades, obviously, those can be manipulated as well but it gives you a sense of security for a little bit. But as soon as the rule got removed from the rulebook it became really an IC issue, and like every IC issue you need to find IC ways to solve it. -1 from me.
Xypint Posted May 14, 2019 Report Posted May 14, 2019 Nope. If you want to do tax evasion, take the risk.
Loafism Posted May 14, 2019 Report Posted May 14, 2019 4 hours ago, Dimitri Sokolov said: No, but for real, in real life people do get scammed, if you'd get scammed ICly then, as people already stated above, it's on you. Damn I didn't know that the server has scripted in multiple ways and also has other systems in place for ICly dealing with scams like real life does, guess the developers have done an awesome job with bring in all of the ways it could be dealt with in real life. 15 hours ago, Linden said: There needs to be an IC way to deal with scams. Yep, having no scam limit when there aren't systems to deal with it is just plain retarded in an RP server, if it's going to be allowed without players having ways to get the cash back then there should be a low limit on how much people can scam.
MistNinja Posted May 14, 2019 Report Posted May 14, 2019 (edited) honnestly vehicle transfare is great.. but the way people use it at the moment is a problem.. however its also your own fault if you're stupid anough not to use high end. -1 here. Edited May 14, 2019 by MistNinja
Victor Einhart Posted May 15, 2019 Report Posted May 15, 2019 If someone refuses to use the 100% guaranteed safe way, just refuse the transaction. You have to be smart with your money. 1
BallinByNature Posted August 5, 2020 Report Posted August 5, 2020 Unless OOC was involved in scamming, we do not limit or stop IC scamming. Players should be expected to build a repor with other players before trusting them just as they would in real life. You wouldn't hand your Lamborghini to a stranger in real life and hope he will go to the bank and get you a million, so don't do it in the game. Thanks for the suggestion!
