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BallinByNature last won the day on August 12

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  1. @Kyle White Raven IC protocol wasn't followed in the scenario you're taking your reasoning from, nor was OOC protocol. Each player, including PD/SD players, are capable of non-RP (roleplaying actions which are unrealistic) and that is what this was determined to be. I disagree, if their actions are unrealistic and effect other peoples RP negatively, as per the Server Roleplay rules, that should certainly not be allowed. Additionally they do have the full autonomy to determine the charges on a suspect, if they've actually confirmed who their suspect is. This is already the case, too. However being that we're in an environment with limited players, praying on the fact of limited diversity and a high guessing probability, is not sufficient to be randomly placing charges -OR- attacking any player in a situation not involving police at all. You cannot "guess" you have the right person, you must know, or you could be guilty of DMing there as well. This rule is not something new, all players are held to the non-RP standard of performing realistic actions. Having this rule actually does the exact opposite, it sets the guideline that basic investigations are actually required (not prevented?) instead of just guessing at charges which would not hold up in any real sense. Charging criminals based on your personal hunch after having done little to no investigative work is not a realistic action for a player with the OOC privilege PD / SD players are granted. + It is clear to me that you didn't read the entire opinion or did and are trying to straw-man the excerpted quote. The full explanation clearly states those things can be the bases of basic investigation, he could be a lead suspect, brought in for questioning, go to their home and stake out to see if he arrives in the vehicle, etc etc etc. Just because you cannot blindly charge them, you now can't have any IC story building? Was blindly charging them the pinnacle of your RP story building really? Implying that these are reasonable OOC actions is precisely misinterpreting the ruling of the report. An officer placing felony charges as a guess on someone then providing the evidence that they were placed based off a personal educated guess based off clothing and voice sound, is not at all a reasonable IC interaction. So that is not at all the precedent being set. As mentioned to Dashingly below, identifiable yes, evidence sufficient of being a valid charge, no. The ruling encouraged further RP with him as a suspect, but just because 1 officer has a correct gut feeling, doesn't make a charge valid. Continuing to investigate wasn't done. The person was not driving their own car. Hair style and clothing alone are not sufficient evidence for an irrefutable charge. This is precisely what was done in the report, he placed the charges based off of mask and voice. What this means is you have to follow your PD/SD protocol which says the exact same things. That is correct if you have no evidence that it was that person, they were not caught in the act, and they have not given any sort of admission of guilt what so ever, you cannot place irrefutable charges based on clothing worn, a tattoo, voice, or accessories alone. "and have gone through a bunch of other investigative RP" is being awfully generous considering absolutely 0 investigative RP was done before placing the charge based on the voice and clothing. Unrealistic actions (filing charges based on a personal educated guess with 0 evidence) are not an IC issue, all players are held to the non-RP standard within the rules. The player involved in the report had prior reports and cases where he charged them in similar fashion with a mask on as well, so it is not as rare as you claim. Only someone intentionally trying to misread the ruling would suggest they can not be charged, because it says very plainly as explained that it can be the basis of further investigation and possibly eventually lead to a charge with more evidence. That is up for your RP to decide, but you don't get to place irrefutable charges based on your characters best educated guess and do 0 investigation and claim you can't ever place charges now. The frequency of a non-RP action does not make it more or less non-RP in most cases. A player being charged unrealistically, just once, is an issue to be worked on / corrected. An OOC rule wasn't created once again, OOC rules surrounding realistic acitons are indeed needed, and were already in place prior (non-RP). Is visually seeing clothing , tattoos, and vehicles, the only investigative RP available in your opinion? In my opinion, that's a very surface level observation any officer can make, let alone a full on detectives investigation which should be far more in-depth. Do you truly believe placing charges based off a brief visual of him stepping out of a car and shooting at the officer for a few seconds is the pinnacle of investigative RP and he has exhausted all resources to confirm his suspect? I would disagree completely. Precisely why it is both unrealistic and not allowed. In no realistic way would charges stand up based on a confident identity guess with facial obstruction. No one told them to ignore their IC guess, we just asked them to RP them out realistically, not place unrealistic irrefutable charges based on a personal educated guess. @TheCactus Because the MDC does not pop up their name via their ID does not mean it is not possible to metagame someone's identity. He also wasn't even punished for metagaming, it was for non-RP. The ability to "guess" based on voip or player model is drastically increased by OOC information in a small community which has much less chance of having a doppleganger (especially while wearing a mask) than real life may be, that is why your guess is not entirely an IC guess when you're basing it off player model and voice. Additionally people can have multiple characters so saying that their characters voice is so unique to them as the sole basis for identifying them is not a fair OOC tactic what so ever in terms of valuing the RP possibilities. Your statement that if you have enough evidence is fine, however, guessing based off a voice sound during a car chase and a brief interaction seeing their mask as they are shooting at you, is not "enough evidence" as confirmed by PD / SD chiefs during discussion. The protocols in place within the faction both OOC and IC require more for placing charges, so doing so in violation of the OOC / IC protocols is not an IC issue. The officer wasn't punished for successfully confirming the identity, it is well stated in the full explanation that these things could be used as the basis for investigation / targeting a suspect. What he was punished for was placing charges with absolutely 0 evidence other than personal guess. He could definitely follow up and use his successful guess as the basis for a proper RP investigation with a primary suspect. No, it is not your fault people do that. Just your fault if you place irrefutable charges based on clothing alone which is unrealistic. Just because you know Ricky Brasco wears a blue t shirt a lot doesn't mean you can go around charging any suspect in a blue t-shirt as Ricky Brasco. Arguing the ability to guess charges based on clothing and voice sounds alone is unrealistic. If you know you're gonna charge, gather evidence. @Dashingly identifiable yes, evidence sufficient of being a valid charge, no. The ruling encouraged further RP with him as a suspect, but just because 1 officer has a correct gut feeling, doesn't make a charge valid. It isn't, and prior RP experience with a person shouldn't be an ' ability to charge irrefutably based on a situational guess' either. Actions that are unrealistic which promote a poor quality of RP have and always will be an OOC issue under the non-RP rule.
  2. Hello and thank you for submitting this player report. I would like to take this opportunity to thank both parties involved for remaining patient while this report has been carefully reviewed. With that being said, after extensively reviewing this player report as well as taking the statements of both parties into account, it was decided to conclude this report with the following: Player Samuel_Martin will receive a non-roleplay punishment for placing irrefutable charges with insufficient evidence / investigation. There was not sufficient confirmation and evidence behind placing the charges onto the reporting party. During this situation you are actively driving on the highway while also being shot at by another individual who was completely masked up and traveling in a tinted car. The idea that you are able to identify this person without a shadow of a doubt based on how his character looks and sounds is simply not plausible. It goes without saying but determining who someone is based on their voice and looks before subsequently placing irrefutable charges due to this should not happen. It can be a basis for further investigation where you attempt to exhaust all of your option in terms of identifying this individual, however it should not be used as irrefutable evidence when it comes to placing charges on another individual. With that being said, following a conversation with representatives of the LSPD and LSSD factions we have had both clarify to all LEO faction members what is / isn't acceptable in terms of placing irrefutable charges and what is required for them such as confirming the identity beyond a shadow of a doubt which cannot be done with masks on and based on voices. Therefore, situations such as this should not happen again in the future.
  3. Bakmeel is on a Leave of Absence and will be returning tomorrow, thanks for your patience while we wait for him to post his reason for the ban. Thank you.
  4. Nick_Cross and Alistair_Esquire were not found as characters. Please provide via PM all account names owned for your characters.
  5. Please explain your connection to Dante_Perkere
  6. Please explain your connection with Sorowish_Morin
  7. Archived. Thanks for your suggestions!
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  9. Archived. Thanks for your suggestions!
  10. Archived. Thanks for your suggestions!
  11. Archived. Thanks for your suggestions!
  12. Archived. Thanks for your suggestions!
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