Kick Half of PD/SD

[Melodiz Bashkimi]

I'll keep this short.

For crims, PD and SD is out of control, we got PD spinning labs arresting people for the most bullshit reasons, to give an example is getting arrested for 'trespassing', searching all vehicles for no reason, dogs that can sniff your guns out for NO reason. 

There is simply no way to avoid PD when you get 4 3 stacked bulletproof STXs, 3 scouts, 2 BF's, a jugular and a swat Kamacho on you because you pulled a fast turn, it's just ridiculous and stupid. 

In the community discussion it was mentioned that PD is 'bored', because there's not much to do, the reason being is that there are NO situations to respond to because it is impossible to fight anywhere without PD pulling up, you can't drive more then 2 stacked or you will be pulled over and searched for a made-up reason. You can't do anything about it because even if they're pulling you over for a stupid reason that's IC, but the REASON they're doing it (SPECIFICALLY OUTSIDE LABS, LIKE LSD/GARBAGE) is because they know that a 4 stack Kamacho/Scout/Jugular with players who are well known criminals WILL have heavies on them and will result in a 'fun' shootout/chase. 

Kick Half of PD/SD, there aren't close to as much criminals as there were 1 year ago, PD has been massively buffed with all the gun updates and extra ammo, it is impossible to escape PD when you have 4 stack STX's shooting you. It would be fine if you did some major crime, but 10 cruisers and a heli for a 'trespassing' charge, or a reckless? It's just ridiculous. 

Stop pushing criminals out of the server, making people grind 2 hours in labs to get some heavies only to lose them in 3 mins to some PD circling around LSD/Braddocks looking for 3/4 stack cars to pull over knowing DAMN WELL (OOCLY) that they have heavies. 

The maximum number of people you will see in one gang on your average day is about 10. 3 years ago it was 100 yet the numbers have not been adjusted for PD, in fact, they have increased. 

Edited November 13, 2023 by Melodiz Bashkimi

[Mortem]

+1

Criminal roleplay is dying for a reason and this is a major part of it in my opinion. 

[Nexus111]

+ Ive seen this first hand on ride alongs. Kicking half of them is extreme but maybe making PD and SD less overpowered would def help

[illin]

I DEFENETLY  think there needs to be something done about the huge power gap between crim and LEO. As a player who plays as both I don't necessarily think kicking half of them is the answer. I don't know what the answer is and don't really have any positive feedback, but Mortem is right crim RP is dying day by day.

[kris giggs]

Seems like a pretty draconian measure for something that can be solved by fixing your irresponsibility. Your numbers are exaggerated, no gang had 100 people in total, let alone online at one time. If criminals were more responsible with the way they interact with one another, and especially the police, you would not have this issue of being constantly checked and suppressed - cops retain a reactive role meaning they usually respond to your behavior and/or actions instead of initiating without due reason.

If you get arrested enough times and earn a bad name for yourself, you will get a chopper and two cars stopping you because they know you will likely do something stupid again. Avoid stacking your cars with 4 people and heavies, avoid convoying and shooting cops, and be more calculated when conducting your business and you will find it a lot easier to have a good time.

[TheCactus]

@Melodiz Bashkimi Damn bro they are pulling me over just because we are 4 stacked. I think they should kick half of their members. 
That's like saying "The boiler is not working so half of my family got a cold due to showering with cold water. I'll kick them out of the house for being too weak." when the clear solution would be fixing the boiler.

[Spizor]

How many topics is it going to take for criminals to realize that law enforcement is supposed to and will always have advantages over criminals.

Are you expecting law enforcement to not show up when you're guns blazing, fighting other players in areas we patrol in?
Are you expecting law enforcement to not be cautious about well-known criminals with a massive record?
Are you expecting law enforcement to turn a blind eye when they pull over 4 very well-known criminals that always carry heavy weaponry on them?

When you fight other players, do you care about where you're fighting? Do you care how loud your guns are? Do you expect to fight, loot, and drive away freely?
If you're a well-known criminal that knows they always get pulled over, are you cautious about what you carry on you? Do you follow traffic laws, maybe to try and not get pulled over?
If you have 4 very well known criminals in the same vehicle and know that you will get pulled over, do you ever try splitting up people in different vehicles, or not carrying heavy weaponry on you?

Seriously, "kick half of pd/sd" is your suggestion? This is another complaint topic with no real suggestion or goal to reach.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Spizor

[Jett_J]

In other words, kick half the server population out of their faction and make them quit the server.

These suggestions are getting crazier and crazier

Edited November 14, 2023 by Jett_J

[Oli]

Kicking people is too extreme.

People you kick arent just going to switch characters and play crim and revive crim RP, they're gonna be demotivated and may end up quitting the server. You cant force someone to play a certain way, one that he doesnt want to play.

However, I do agree that PD and SD have "more than needed" numbers, as the number of people who still play crim actively has drastically decreased over time.

This makes me question why PD and SD still actively hire people when they do not need to (I may be wrong as I'm not part of their factions neither do I know their future plans!).

Edited November 14, 2023 by Oli

[Fancyme]

they just need to stop sitting outside labs waiting for gun shots tbh

[Jett_J]

4 minutes ago, Fancyme said:

they just need to stop sitting outside labs waiting for gun shots tbh

Which ones? (For research purposes)

[Astrx]

15 minutes ago, Fancyme said:

they just need to stop sitting outside labs waiting for gun shots tbh

No point in baseless accusations man, If you see it, report it. Trust me, from being in LSPD, this shit is highly monitored and has been punished when it has happened in the past.

[BlueFlame]

This is right, we’ve seen SD/PD spinning labs or sitting outside/close to labs just to hear shots and pull in with their whole faction just because they have a pvp mentality and bored.

[Fancyme]

1 hour ago, Astrx said:

No point in baseless accusations man, If you see it, report it. Trust me, from being in LSPD, this shit is highly monitored and has been punished when it has happened in the past.

not baseless got countless screenshots and povs that have been forwarded and nothing seems to come of it because it continues to happen!!

Edited November 14, 2023 by Fancyme

[onlystorming]

Coming from a person that has now delved into PD since last month, I am somebody that has played crim for the past 2 years almost and only crim for a year now on this server - not one person from PD/SD sits outside labs because it is known that you will be punished for this and it is stressed so much. This is spoken about on an OOC level and monitored closely due to the fact the concern is raised so much through all the complaints that have been stated on the forums and in game. If you do, you are going to be receiving a punishment, and PD command encourages you to share POV.

I have even confronted these said infamous people MYSELF that have been accused of "sitting outside labs" in a one to one conversation, with full honesty coming from both sides. They don't just sit there and this is something that I 100% believed too, yes, I thought they just sat there for the LONGEST time. This is without naming anybody. If they are lingering nearby, it's most likely because they have something on you like a freq or a call about illegal activity. Plus all the people who forget to turn their phones off. I recently found out that the reason a lab that I was in was pushed because a detective had access to a freq, whereas at the time, I thought they were sat there for the hell of it lol.

Most of the time these guys are just driving through and unfortunately for you, you got pushed or a fight broke out in that exact moment which forced them to respond. In my experience, I have seen PD push a lab that I am in about 4 times since March on my crim. Just another thing - you'd be surprised how many civilians/random players will call about hearing shots near a lab because I never expected it myself either, and shots are LOUD. If you start a fight at Sealab, and a cop is driving on the highway, they will hear the shots, they will respond.

I also understand the frustration of being arrested, losing all your guns/drugs and so forth while PD just does a command on a cruiser and gets them all back once they run from pillbox. However, you need to question what is it that you strive for on a server - realism or fun? From the debates that I've engaged in nobody can decide whether they want the server to be fun or realistic.

If you're going for realism, criminals are ALWAYS going to be disadvantaged by a organization that is funded by the government. If you are a name that has popped up in several conversations, arrests, bank robberies and etc, you are going to be investigated or considered on a file. If you shoot at PD multiple times a week to a month, you are GOING to be supressed. If you don't want to be supressed for killing 3 or even 5 cops, letting a single cop live to tell the story, can you tell me why not and how that makes sense? If you're known for evading when you're being pulled over for any reason, backup IS going to come. The amount of backup that comes depends on how many officers are free at that given time (sometimes people are even asked to drop response because its excessive and there are other things to focus on).

Some people even decide to turn a simple .50 arrest that takes 20-30 minutes at Mission Row into a 3 hour DOC sentence because they want to flame a cop just because they've been caught lacking or because they don't want to lose a .50. I've seen major gangs turn a 3 person arrest into a 15v15 shootout and then be surprised the next day as to why cops are pulling them out of cars. You can't say that it's not realistic for cops to have a certain types of guns because it's also not realistic to go to a bank every Friday night and rinse the vault for all the packs. It's also not realistic for criminals to drive past a scene of 15 cops and shoot just to get one guy out. It was also not realistic to have 4 gangs on one freq working together (taking realism into account) due to many different goals, personalities etc. and yet that still happened until it was disallowed because of the fact that it was unbearable for the other side of the server, but we as criminals enjoyed every bit of it. We still talk about it to this day about how that was the golden age of the server while the more seasoned LEO's talk about it as if they have PTSD.

I've also been pulled out of my own car by cops so many times. Yes it was frustrating. Though I wasn't really surprised and I'm still not. My faction had shot at cops the other day and I was known for riding around with @PhenomenalX and evading cops 24/7 BECAUSE I was strapped 24/7.  He on the other hand is a criminal that has been known on the server for YEARS, has millions in his bank and most of the time probably has a gun on him. Of course we are getting pulled out. The more experienced players in PD will know this, the only reason you evade is because you have something, we as criminals know this too.

It's obviously ass to sit at DOC for 2-3 hours, but you make money if you are there at a down time and get stamps while watching a movie instead of AFK'ing the whole time you can make up to 100k which is probably more than you lost out on. I've seen factions such as Underground (who's main goal is actually to fight cops), be pushed by PD and have all their houses raided but they do this and understand the repercussions.

PD/SD at the moment isn't even really the issue, it's the lack of interaction criminals can have with each other outside of shooting each other and rolling labs. I agree with you, but not the whole way, especially about kicking half of the roster out of each faction. There are SOME cops that push(ed) the limits, but that's only because they've memorised the handbook/regulations in and out and know what they can and can't do. The penal code and laws are always being adjusted. This isn't 2020-21, we are talking about a server that has evolved 2 years past that point. Some labs are placed in inconvenient locations, such as LSD, where a cop can drive from Stab City into Sandy and hear your shots.

Just to add onto another point, there is almost never more than 20 LEO's online for PD throughout the week. The numbers go to about 10-15 most of the time. That's already one faction that is limited to one jurisdiction, that would be PD for the city and SD for north. Obviously, as it is, on a Saturday those numbers may spike to about 20, but it's the same for criminals because it's a weekend. My criminal faction on a Sunday night is able to rack up about 20 people just for a meeting (this was just yesterday), whether people have the time to stay is another issue, but this is the same for any and all factions.

Criminals need to be given more activities and venues to take to not be caught out by PD, but this comes down to development - not a faction. This has also been discussed on PD's side, because everybody gets it. They get it, we get it. An example such as burner phones should be introduced so criminals can not be tracked by GnD and people have suggested so much more, but again this is down to the developers. Some rules need to be adjusted, such as the DM rule, but that is all down to administration and devs. The criminal side of the server is in a bad state but that is due to the lack of things to do, not because of one faction or the other. More activities/workarounds for criminals = more things for PD to do. We all win.

Edited November 14, 2023 by onlystorming

[Hector2Fingers]

3 minutes ago, BlueFlame said:

This is right, we’ve seen SD/PD spinning labs or sitting outside/close to labs just to hear shots and pull in with their whole faction just because they have a pvp mentality and bored.

If you've seen it, did you report?  I've seen these accusations multiple times in the past, but yet I don't think I've ever seen a report with evidence to back it up.  This is known to be against the rules so without actually reporting it, I'm going to call you on your bullshit.

 

7 hours ago, Melodiz Bashkimi said:

Kick Half of PD/SD, there aren't close to as much criminals as there were 1 year ago, PD has been massively buffed with all the gun updates and extra ammo, it is impossible to escape PD when you have 4 stack STX's shooting you. It would be fine if you did some major crime, but 10 cruisers and a heli for a 'trespassing' charge, or a reckless? It's just ridiculous. 
 

To be clear here, you want to kick 97 people from these factions.  Let's look at what happens:

Arrested for a minor reckless operation?  Good luck finding an officer to get your shit back when you're released. 
Car got impounded?  Now you'll wait an hour as opposed to 20 minutes.
Players who want a weapons license are going to wait several days.
The 97 people who are cut from the factions wouldn't be those who are driving high speed units, kamachos, insurgents, helis, or carrying heavies.  They're going to be the 97 who have been there the least amount of time, know the least tricks of the trade, and those who don't have access the rank authority to raid properties.

There is countless RP the PD and SD members complete which have little to no effect on you, but would have a massive negative impact on the RP of others. If you cut half of them, none of them are going to be responding to calls to take reports that generate a new case for the detective bureau, or respond to medical RP when MD isn't available, or respond to the call of the suicidal person on top of a building, or spending hours negotiating a hostage situation.  The server would see less in depth RP from police units, less patience for ridiculous acts, and all around a lower standard of RP because they're going to feel rushed to get to the next call.

When you are pulled over for a "trespassing charge or reckless" and there are "10 crusiers and a heli", are you compliant?  Do you have a history of violent acts against police or evading from traffic stops?  Were you obeying the majority of the traffic laws or were you doing 200 down San Andreas ave and toyko drifting your way around the corners at Legion Square which would RPly be full of people in a massive metropolis?  Were you pulled over for the same shit the day before which resulted in an ambush or you took a cop hostage?  It's okay to sometimes take the reckless and move on.  You don't always have to evade and turn it in an opportunity to blast some cops.  But if you have the reputation of doing so, you're going to get an appropriate response.

Seems to be like you want free reign to play "bad ass untouchable criminal" who can shoot and rob with little to no resistance.  Might I suggest you try GTA Online?

I won't even bother addressing that it would probably result in half of those 97 leaving the server altogether.  I doubt driving players away from the server is something the staff team would find to be a smart idea.

In the end, if this were to happen, 97 people would lose their status in a faction, and you'd still get arrested for the same shit, get caught evading, lose a shootout, get your property raided, etc and be right back here with another brilliant suggestion.  Maybe next time, suggest they can only patrol on BMXs?  What about airsoft guns?  Or maybe PD armor can give -50 stats.

Are there improvements that can be made to police factions and how certain situations are handled and responded to?  Absolutely.  But a suggestion of removing half of that population from their faction may quite honestly be the worst one yet.  Can't wait to see what you all (not you specifically) come up with next month!

[BlueFlame]

10 minutes ago, Hector2Fingers said:

If you've seen it, did you report?  I've seen these accusations multiple times in the past, but yet I don't think I've ever seen a report with evidence to back it up.  This is known to be against the rules so without actually reporting it, I'm going to call you on your bullshit.

I have POV of it happening and happens but theres no way you can win reports against SD/PD since they're backed up by staff and no one cares. theres no bullshit here, seen so many PD/SD spinning like a random criminal and calling for backup once heard shots.

[Hector2Fingers]

1 minute ago, BlueFlame said:

I have POV of it happening and happens but theres no way you can win reports against SD/PD since they're backed up by staff and no one cares. theres no bullshit here, seen so many PD/SD spinning like a random criminal and calling for backup once heard shots.

A police officer calling for backup when hearing gunfire and searching for the source of gunfire is the literal job of a police officer.  You referenced members camping labs specifically and I asked for proof of the rule breaks.  Plenty of PD and SD get punished by staff. You can view player reports to see that for yourself.  If you see this happening repeatedly but aren’t reporting it, that’s on you.

[fweasy]

im gonna say this from a crim and LEO pov. LEO's dont get called out to labs unless needed. SD and PD alike have like 60-70 faction members, which having some unavtive or on LOA. So ill average it around 50-55. Keep in mind the most ive ever seen LEOs online at once was like 20ish LEO's. This is only at server pop which is around 300-350 players. Thats like a ratio of 1 LEO to 15 Normal players. Some of the Normal players are in factions of their own. This leave like 50ish crims out of the 300-350 pop. One situation involving possibly 1-5 crims can take up ALL of the LEO's on duty. This leaves the rest of the crims unattended. I think if you feel like theres too many cops arresting you. figure out when and where to do crim shit. be smart about it and you wont get got 

[Melody Frey]

Right now Crim and PD are definitely not matched in terms of power, but it's still very winnable every fight. My faction has wiped PD several times on several occasion, especially once the gun update hit and my faction is only known for being an RP faction, not shooters/clappers. At the end of the day as many people have said, you just have to play the game a bit smarter and learn from your mistakes. PD is overpowered, don't get me wrong; but changing your ways to adapt to the situation is much better than making people quit the server.

[Quietthecutie]

Well shit upon reading the title i was expecting this to be a total shitpost, but the guys actually making some good points.

Even for petty things like traffic stops its not uncommon for an additional scout, sometimes as many as 2 or 3 to pull up before the LEO will even get outa their car. and this isnt a 4 stack. its just lil ol' me. to the point it gets kinda ridiculous. in another instance i was arrested for face concealment, not because i refused to take it off, just because i was running by legion square and a cruiser saw me. most LEOs woulda just asked me to take it off (if anything) but man was so starved for RP that he arrested me and took me to mission row for it (note, im am not saying by law he was wrong to do this, i am saying most LEOs wouldnt due to having bigger fish to fry.)

Not only that, but he and his buddy cop called for backup before finishing the arrest, against an unarmed civilian without a vehicle...

It does seem that the ratio of LEOs to Criminals may be a bit askew. not sure how to fix it. i certainly dont think we should just boot half of PD/SD. but you cant deny some good points are raised. Just not the right soloutions.

Edited November 14, 2023 by Quietthecutie

[dRose22]

they just need to stop sitting outside labs waiting for gun shots tbh

[Harveyyy]

1 hour ago, BlueFlame said:

I have POV of it happening

Send me your POV

[Bala]

I think the title of the thread is a little bit sensationalist, if I'm honest and I think that it's likely going to attract some less than ideal responses. We're not going to be kicking half of our faction members out of the PD faction, to accommodate the criminals on the server. That is simply not going to happen and nor should it. As you put time and effort into establishing yourselves as criminals, many of those in the LSPD have done the same. 

Unfortunately, the reason why these threads go nowhere is because, like the discussion on Saturday, despite some good initial exchanges, it starts to become people bringing up individual situations and we've seen it already on the thread. 

The topic of "lab camping" was raised at one of our weekly meetings recently. It was investigated, because whether or not you want to believe it, we take that shit seriously and the only incident in question was found to be something and nothing. I'm not going to sit here and say that it doesn't happen, but it's also not happening as much as you assume it is or more importantly, why you assume it is. There can be a number of reasons, within the rules that a cop ends up at one of these static locations.

I said it on Saturday and I'll say it again, the entire server is stuck in a continuous loop and there are a lot of things that need to change across the board to break that cycle. 
We're neither an action packed, fun time roleplay server nor are we a realistic gritty roleplay community either. In the same server, we have the Constitution and all this excessively serious law roleplay but then we people masked up 24/7, representing all the different colours of the rainbow and doing questionable types of roleplay which if we're being being honest, ends up just being trolling.

With GTA VI on the horizon, we're now entering the Autumn of Eclipse RP with maybe a year or two of peak activity left before the inevitable drop off and this server badly really needs an individual with enough stroke to stand up and being counted, cut through all the red tape and grab this community by the cock and balls. Get the developers together with the admins, the moderators, support staff and faction leaders and decide on what we (the community) actually want Eclipse Roleplay to be in 2024. 

Forget it just being the same people making the same decisions because it feels a bit like there is a disconnect between those at the top of the tree and your average community member and them simply trying to impress their wants and needs for ECRP clearly hasn't worked. That's no less of an echo chamber than one of these threads. You need to get EVERYONE in a position of some responsibility in ECRP all facing the same way, whether staff or not and move in that direction as quickly as possible.

Have every faction organise a consensus for their members. What could ECRP be doing better etc.. Have the faction leaders compile it and meet with the staff / devs and see what the common themes are. Work off that list to scratch the issues off, rinse and repeat.

Do that, then with a bit of luck, favourable winds and I think the community pops off again. Probably not like during COVID but 300-400 on the regular.

Oh and release the clothing update!

Edited November 14, 2023 by Bala

[BlueFlame]

21 minutes ago, Harveyyy said:

Send me your POV

https://forum.eclipse-rp.net/topic/149342-matteo_ellis-id-4-frp/