PD ARMOR NERF / TWEAKS

[Rowze]

17 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

In regards to the fact that you pay for the armor, that is because you own the armor. The fact of the matter is that as a criminal you can do whatever you want to do with your assets. The car that you drive will more often than not appreciate in value tremendously (see Hakuchou Drag, Comet Retro), the interiors that you own can quite literally turn into a money printer, the weapons that you own can be re-sold for profit or used to rob others for their assets. Contrast that to what can a cop do with his assets? He can't even pull it out whenever he feels like, because there's an in-character rule telling him when he's allowed to do so.

That is why you pay for the armor and he gets it for free.

The notion that law enforcement has a huge advantage in terms of weapon selection has not been true for years. If we're talking about the new player that just scored a .50 at x10 the cost from a player that made profit selling his asset, sure, they will have an advantage over him. However, this thread is populated by extremely old players that have, and have used way better weapons than what law enforcement has available to them.

A good number of people in this thread should remember how very recently 3-5 special carbines with full attachments were used to wipe law enforcement, and their armor didn't seem to help very much. Pretty much everyone in this thread should acknowledge the machine pistol, and how it quite literally melts anything in front of it, a criminal-roleplay exclusive weapon.

The only tangible weapon that criminals do not regularly have access to is a sniper rifle, and even several of those were sold to criminal roleplayers. I think it's time to put to rest the notion that you are out-armed by law enforcement.

 

A 4 stacked helicopter with sniper rifles can take out the entire server if they want to

[LucasJHughes]

To add to what Rowze said, recently I encountered a SWAT Helicopter that Had a Marksman Rifle on the side of it, My bullets could not physically reach the Helicopter however the SWAT Individuals had no problem One-Shotting my fellow gang members while not even being in range for us to hit them.

[Kayta]

1 minute ago, Rowze said:

 

A 4 stacked helicopter with sniper rifles can take out the entire server if they want to

also due to the desync it cannot be seen or reached

[jason]

51 minutes ago, Kayta said:

also due to the desync it cannot be seen or reached

Helicopters are unable to see you on the ground if you cannot see them. Desync does not control this, streaming distance does. This is set server-side. If they can see you, you can see them. It's often the case that the angles make it hard to see them.

[jason]

Those continuing to push this topic into toxic territories or take it wildly off topic will be issued forum punishments should they continue. All posts relevant to this warning have been removed.

Thank you.

[Kommand]

1 hour ago, alexalex303 said:

The notion that law enforcement has a huge advantage in terms of weapon selection has not been true for years. If we're talking about the new player that just scored a .50 at x10 the cost from a player that made profit selling his asset, sure, they will have an advantage over him. However, this thread is populated by extremely old players that have, and have used way better weapons than what law enforcement has available to them.

Outside of special drop items only approved factions can request, I think PD/SD has the advantage. However when we're talking about Machine Pistols or other rare weapons, it begins to tilt towards criminals having a slight advantage. So it really depends on the availability or access of these special item drops, how often they are being accepted, etc. 

The Machine Pistol with the drum mag beats the hell out of any PD/SD sidearm.  

credit to @ImDrew

[Valkyrie]

-1

 

If we want RP to be realistic, PD would have better armor options, and for good reason. And honestly the whole “but I have to grind to get what they have” argument is moot as well for the same reasons. Crims IRL have to bide their time and make money to buy illegal items for a high cost because supply/demand. 
 

If you want any sort of change, change the headshot modifiers. Unless we are wearing a ballistic helmet, headshots should not take an entire clip to down someone. Make it so that one or two headshots down someone regardless of armor status and take a final shot to complete the deed. 

[Tomvd682]

20 minutes ago, valkyrieundfreyja said:

-1

 

If we want RP to be realistic, PD would have better armor options, and for good reason. And honestly the whole “but I have to grind to get what they have” argument is moot as well for the same reasons. Crims IRL have to bide their time and make money to buy illegal items for a high cost because supply/demand. 
 

If you want any sort of change, change the headshot modifiers. Unless we are wearing a ballistic helmet, headshots should not take an entire clip to down someone. Make it so that one or two headshots down someone regardless of armor status and take a final shot to complete the deed. 

Headshots meaning something would be nice and make a lot more sense then eating led for breakfast +1

[Requiem]

I am in support for armor not absorbing damage for headshots. But for the rest of the suggestion(s) -1.

I am not sure why this suggestion is even being talked about when it might mean nothing after the weapon update. What if AP rounds are introduced that shred armor likes it nothing? Should just wait to see what happens, then talk about changes from there.

[Salvador Rivera]

11 hours ago, alexalex303 said:

I feel that every person in this thread is glossing over the fact that in the same video you see a small group of people fight and wipe law enforcement. Clearly the armor didn't help as much as the comments in the thread would lead you to believe.

Not all PD/ SD /SAAS members are good with tactics or aiming just like IRL . Everyone is different

This group of people who clap these PD down are good by shooting,

I would like to suggest :  bring some rules where you need to think about your life when you are doing shoot outs not just randomly pushing and don't giving a shit about movement .

 

Cover Rush 

Any way +1 to change something with these Vests , because its just a plate carrier not some heavy armor plate , there is no logical explanation for this 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2023 by Salvador Rivera

[SkyeFuryy]

Myself and a fellow Rook member recently attempted to kill Coral.

I counted 12 shots to her neck/head (the majority being to the head) at close distance (literally standing behind her) with a .50. She wasn't even limping after the 12 confirmed shots.

This is why the armor is currently an issue. Criminals should have access to the same AP or the AP of cops should be lowered to a more realistic setting. 

[Alannn]

+1!

[Payn]

13 hours ago, Harley said:

+111111111111

IMO these should be the values for PD Kevlar

Active SWAT/SED: 100AP
Passive SWAT/SED: 75AP
Normal GOB Officer: 50AP
Under shirt "Undercover": 25AP

There is absolutely zero reason a cop should take 3 Shotgun shots to the face and be barely limping. 

+2 !!!

[MrSilky]

Whenever I get domed, it bypasses my armour and I’m rolling on the floor after 3-4 shots of a .50! The only logical conclusion here is that Coral is built different.

Jokes aside, best thing I think to do will be to await the upcoming weapon changes, and feedback how that works and feels. The issue, in my opinion, isn’t the level of armour - it’s the consistency of damage.

[Bala]

If the people complaining about the armour really care about balance, they won't mind cops having more reasons to shoot first right? Like those, you run and we tell you to stop and you don't so we put shots into your back kinda situations. You know like in real life?

I don't think that would go down very well would it?

So, the reason why we have the armour is because unlike you, cops are reactive. We need x to happen for us to do y. You have the advantage right up until the moment you open fire because it's your choice when the shooting starts. If you execute it right, it doesn't matter if it's 20 or 200. 

Also, if you want the armour amounts lowered, then cops are going to compensate and pull out the bigger guns (that you dont like us using) more to offset the risk.

I don't think that would go down very well would it?

Maybe, just maybe. Leave this as it is.

-1.

[TheCactus]

4 hours ago, Rowze said:

 

A 4 stacked helicopter with sniper rifles can take out the entire server if they want to

Same goes for a full stacked insurgent or TARV shooting but can we do it or did you see it happen? Me neither.

In the video shared above https://streamable.com/hvfed0 you can see how he dies after 8 shots (some of which sound like silenced SMG which was trash last time I tried it). The real problem is the headshot did almost the same damage as a bodyshot.

If kevlar get nerfed you will still say no to law enforcement having attachments. I understand you want to take but you hate to give but balance is supposed to be balanced for everyone.

Edited February 3, 2023 by TheCactus

[SkyeFuryy]

Quote

If the people complaining about the armour really care about balance, they won't mind cops having more reasons to shoot first right? Like those, you run and we tell you to stop and you don't so we put shots into your back kinda situations. You know like in real life?

There is a rule on the server for this called FearRP, so this is not an issue on debate here. 

Quote

Also, if you want the armour amounts lowered, then cops are going to compensate and pull out the bigger guns (that you dont like us using) more to offset the risk.

This is the issue. Cops already have the advantage, they have unlimited ressources not being capped actively. This discussion is to bring the "playing field" to a more fair and even one. PD/SD will always have the advantage due to their script. Criminals have to financially balance their ressources. So bringing the armor to a realistic or lower standard will not have any perverse effect on your risk factor. It may however make cops think twice about being the "hero cop" which if you think about it, will lower the amount of shootouts happening. And if you feel this will give criminals too much of an advantage, I think the W attitude needs to change. You win some, you lose some. 

At the end of the day, I don't wear armor on my crim. Why? Because I can't afford to lose it! And that is the advantage PD/SD have. And whilst it is a reasonable advantage, it doesn't mean cops should have exclusive access to higher AP. Give criminals the same AP, most of us won't wear it anyway, because when we die, we don't get to respawn a new one.

[pasha9]

12 hours ago, GregoV1 said:

the 9iners and Div 6 ones I got shredded and died easily

Ye cause you never cared about positioning yourself, nobody in PD/SD does, they come to the scene and hop out mid of the street with no cover, gets sprayed by bunch of people still tanks 50 shots then they go "armor didn't save me wtf we need 100 more AP (300AP)" and that's the only reason cops lose 1 fight out of 100+. They don't care cause there is nothing to lose for em "I can get whatever I want anyway who cares if I die" boom dies. wakes up at MD runs to mission row spawns a new car get new guns out goes back to patrolling

Edited February 3, 2023 by pasha9

[Requiem]

19 minutes ago, pasha9 said:

Ye cause you never cared about positioning yourself, nobody in PD/SD does, they come to the scene and hop out mid of the street with no cover, gets sprayed by bunch of people still tanks 50 shots then they go "armor didn't save me wtf we need 100 more AP (300AP)" and thats the only reason cops lose 1 fight out of 100+

Thats because as already stated multiple times, crims have the advantage of setting up wherever they want. A group crims can setup on rooftops, overpasses, parking structures etc when cops don't expect it and start shooting. So the option is either get sprayed down in the vehicle and be killed or get out and defend themselves. 

It keeps getting brought up over and over and over: LEO's are reactive. They cannot act first. They have to be shot at to start shooting back. Especially in a situation where something else is already happening and LEOs cannot react quickly, such as a pursuit situation, or maybe just a traffic stop, LEOs are at a severe disadvantage. The armor is there to compensate for that risk. 

Why is this even a discussion to begin with. It feels like the clapper mentality is coming out and all anyone wants to PVP constantly. This is an RP server and should be treated as such. Not everything needs to be about shooting and killing. As previously stated, crims should be avoiding getting into fights with cops, not finding more reasons to get into shootouts with them. 

In real life, if someone kills a cop, they will be on FBI most wanted list and there would be an endless investigation and manhunt to find them and they would end up with prison for life. There is no investigative capability to that degree in the server due to script and player limitations, so people can get away with it more freely. 

As for the backup rules for crim being brought up, yes, PD or SD can contact one another for backup, or even PD units ask for other PD units to respond, but the good majority of the time, the response time is not fast enough to actually help. If one PD unit gets caught out and shot at over by terminal docks for example, and the other units are in normal areas of the city, by the time they get there, that cop is probably already dead and the crims long gone, so they just get away with it. Response time for PD coming to SD or vice versa is even worse. By the time any backup arrives, its too late most often. So more often than not, crims can easily outnumber LEOs in any instance. 

Edited February 3, 2023 by Bill Breacher

[Jett_J]

13 hours ago, Kommand said:

I thought headshots bypassed AP? I've seen clips where officers have went down with AP still intact. Here it looks like (especially with the pump) that AP absorbs even point blank headshot damage, which is absurdly unrealistic. 

Of course it is possible that Coral is just built different...

Probably something to do with the /down animation and I think the damage inputs are very bugged in general. People getting one shotted in their car after being hit on the arm. It's like headshots register sometimes and you might get shot in one part of your body but it gets registered on a different part. 

[SkyeFuryy]

Quote

Why is this even a discussion to begin with. It feels like the clapper mentality is coming out and all anyone wants to PVP constantly. This is an RP server and should be treated as such.

Because it shouldn't take 3 shotgun rounds and two other people with .50's to bring down a single person at point blank. It's not realistic therefore it creates a huge disadvantage that should not exist. 

[pasha9]

1 hour ago, Bill Breacher said:

Why is this even a discussion to begin with. It feels like the clapper mentality is coming out and all anyone wants to PVP constantly. This is an RP server and should be treated as such.

PVP is a part of the game. and we never said "nerf PD so we can smoke them every day" its not like we're gonna be the ones chasing LEOs around and killing them after they get nerfed. its just not realistic to pump someone in the face 3 times and he still runs around like nothing happened.

[ShawnsBeard]

At the end of the day, I think this suggestion primarily boils down to how headshots do not seem to bypass armor (sometimes).  We have seen previously how one shot headshots affected the server, and I wouldn't want that back either - but there certainly should not be someone able to tank 3 pump shotgun headshots and 8 .50 headshots point blank on their knees as shown in the video.  There has to be some sort of bug or something that is affecting these situations somehow, as it is not only Coral that has this 'built different' attribute.

Imagine a scenario where you take a police officer hostage, and the cops refuse to negotiate or follow your demands and instead decide to push your location further or attempt to shoot you.  Ideally, you would kill the hostage at this point, but that is legitimately not possible with interactions such as these and the following injured animation barring some sort of granted alt RP, which is a big reason why most crim factions just simply do not do hostage situations at all.

[alexalex303]

15 minutes ago, SkyeFuryy said:

Because it shouldn't take 3 shotgun rounds and two other people with .50's to bring down a single person at point blank. It's not realistic therefore it creates a huge disadvantage that should not exist. 

It's not realistic to have a shootout on the beachfront of a major city in which they face little police resistance because there's not that many of them online. The realism can only be realism up to a certain point, and pushing for hyper-realism on one side while we still have shootouts in Del Perro in broad daylight, feels one-sided.

There's a situation very recently where a large number of people drove to the Santa Monica Pier and executed a person there in broad daylight after holding twelve other people hostage. If that level of crime was happening in real-life, the national guard would be patrolling the streets with way heavier armor.

Talking about realism in the context of the current daily law enforcement wipes by groups of people running around with fake swat helmets is disingenuous and disappointing to see.

[ShawnsBeard]

@alexalex303 just a quick question because I'm a little confused with your responses... Are you saying that there isn't a problem with a motionless police officer on their knees taking 3 pump shots and 8~ .50 shots to the face before being injured, let alone fully killed?