PD ARMOR NERF / TWEAKS

[Emptee]

Today I had a video shown to me of rooks fighting PD. Officer Coral is being executed in this video. This video made me realize how over-the-top and unfair police body armor is. I am unaware of how much AP is exactly used here, but no matter what, this is simply unfair. I get that PD is meant to be a force to be reckoned with and is meant to have some sort of advantage, but in my opinion, their ability to call backup from every department is already a huge advantage in itself. I still believe PD should be limited to a maximum of 100 AP. This means that a criminal who spends $40.000 on armor has a 1 to 1 chance of beating ONE cop. This is only fair, as there'd be multiple cops at the scene either way.

Here's the video: The time stamp is 11:52, and there are 3+ pump shots to the head + 2 people shooting her in the head with Pistol .50's. 

 

[Harley]

+111111111111

IMO these should be the values for PD Kevlar

Active SWAT/SED: 100AP
Passive SWAT/SED: 75AP
Normal GOB Officer: 50AP
Under shirt "Undercover": 25AP

There is absolutely zero reason a cop should take 3 Shotgun shots to the face and be barely limping. 

[Osizzle]

+1

[Silent]

+1, I feel like the script armour that is used for bomb defusal RP should remain at 200AP, however is in NO CIRCUMSTANCES to be used to patrol or in gunfights as I've seen 200AP used in scenarios in BOTH PD and SD. 

[ShawnsBeard]

Huge and also very massive +1.  I was a similar situation 2-3 nights ago where LITERALLY 10+ (total count was 14 but may have been less from desync) headshots to a police officer with a .50 was not enough to even injure them.  It is incredibly ridiculous at some points.  I am heavily hoping that the gun update that is being worked on sort of addresses this sort of thing, as its super unrealistic and gives an almost insurmountable advantage to LEO.

[dRose22]

+1 200ap is crazy when pd 2/3 of the server as backup, would like to include that /fl should have a 30 seconds timer to prevent cops form using it midfight like found earlier this week taking over 5 headshots

Edited February 3, 2023 by dRose22

[Yeager]

massive +1 

[sNo0BbZz]

25 minutes ago, Harley said:

Active SWAT/SED: 100AP
Passive SWAT/SED: 75AP
Normal GOB Officer: 50AP
Under shirt "Undercover": 25AP

This

[Oli]

Colossal elephantine enormous gargantuan ginormous humongous immense massive +1

[alexalex303]

I feel that every person in this thread is glossing over the fact that in the same video you see a small group of people fight and wipe law enforcement. Clearly the armor didn't help as much as the comments in the thread would lead you to believe.

[Kommand]

I thought headshots bypassed AP? I've seen clips where officers have went down with AP still intact. Here it looks like (especially with the pump) that AP absorbs even point blank headshot damage, which is absurdly unrealistic. 

Of course it is possible that Coral is just built different...

[ShawnsBeard]

3 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

I feel that every person in this thread is glossing over the fact that in the same video you see a small group of people fight and wipe law enforcement. Clearly the armor didn't help as much as the comments in the thread would lead you to believe.

Another problem that is caused by the massive amount of armor that 200 AP provides is that LEO forces on the server tend to be super uncoordinated and rely very heavily on their weapon/armor advantages rather than tactics themselves.  There have been reports in the past where PD loses a fight and the members of the faction literally state in /f chat that it was the first fight they have lost in months during their time with PD.  I do think PD should have advantages, but I do not think they should have unobtainable advantages such as 200 AP.   At least lower max PD armor to 100 AP, or supply crims with the ability to import 200 AP armor to be able to match the weaponry/armor advantage.  Obviously, the part of Crim RP that is hindered is that they need to purchase said armor, which is a disadvantage in itself.

[XxTheIrishGuyxX]

-1. I mostly agree with OP's suggestion. But I have a different way of going about it.

Instead of changing the base armour stats I would suggest that the headshot modifiers get changed. Yes, people should not be eating headshots for days. You'll see my clip below I get shot in the head first, and it removes a smidge of health and armour. It should remove at least 25%-50%, so 2-3 headshots no matter the gun = downed.

PD is not superhuman, and we usually lose the fight from my experience. Criminals have the advantage to plan, PD has the health advantage. We see a cop eating bullets in the above clip, however lets see the flip side of the coin. Four criminals with pistols smoke four cops. Link. In my experience this is what happens, cops get ambushed. 

If I may speak freely, in my over two years in PD, I can count on one hand the amount of gun fights I have been in. In my opinion there are bigger issues on the server. I would suggest Devs focus on more pressing issues, I.E gun, drugs, clothing, etc?

[kawalis]

huge +1 as a person that's been an leo and a criminal. 

[HobGoblin]

Just so you have the correct information. The armour in this video is only 150. Standard cops are limited to 100 while swat and gnd have access to 150 (unsure if swat can use 200 as I am not apart of swat).

 

I think its best to see what the gun update brings to gunfights but I’m not against having everyone limited to 100. At least then tactics mean more rather than who can take the most shots before death. 

[Herbo]

-1

Its been said in multiple threads before, cops aren’t difficult kill. Most of the members from Division 6 will say the same thing as they’ll kill 10+ cops all on one scene.

Its a simple reason why the armor is like that, shooting PD shouldn’t be viable or a thing you want to do. It’s like this so people don’t just go around shooting PD/SD every situation. 

Sure I agree maybe bump it down a little bit, but with crims in 99% of situations having the “tactical advantage” they want to have high AP so it’s not just shootouts 24/7.

That’s all, the armor isn’t bad as everyone makes it out to be and moans about, quit shooting cops and actually roleplay for once.

[GregoV1]

Criminals already have better weaponry then majority of PD and SWAT/SED at times. In what world is it realistic for a gang that is usually filled with street thugs to possess not only better weaponry, but the same or better armor than a heavily funded law enforcement agency? I read these threads over and over again, with the simple notion from criminals is #NerfPD. As someone who is in SWAT and gets in A LOT of shootouts with gangs, PD armor does not need to be nerfed. In the last 6 months of me being in SWAT, I utilized my 200 AP armor 3 times in shootouts: 

• 1st - Being against Deroses at Burgershot (2022),
• 2nd - Shootout with 9iners in front of Arcadius (2023),
• 3rd - Intercepted a Div 6 and RS shootout at scrapyard (2023)

Out of these 3 shootouts, I only survived the Deroses, the 9iners and Div 6 ones I got shredded and died easily. PD rarely utilizes this armor, and it has to be RP'd to be put on. As for our generic 150 AP armor, same deal here, you can and will get melted by criminals if they actually coordinate and have proper weapons to support it. I have seen criminals with Special Carbines w/ silencers and grips on them with 100 AP armor. Why would it make sense to have us have a max armor of 100 AP, and have worse weaponry?

This reply might not mean anything to anyone, but if you don't believe me, join PD or SD, get into some shootouts, and you will realize we aren't "OP." PD/SD is restricted by heavy IC policies which ultimately helps criminals, when on the flip side, criminals can do anything they realistically want. So we may have good armor, but we lose the freedom that criminals have with fights/shootouts, which is for the better.

TLDR; If you have the numbers, are coordinated, and are just better are shooting people (Which crims are usually better at fighting than PD/SD), then fighting cops shouldn't be a problem and you have pretty high chances of winning and if you don't believe it, join PD/SD and try it for yourself

[Emptee]

6 minutes ago, GregoV1 said:

Criminals already have better weaponry then majority of PD and SWAT/SED at times. In what world is it realistic for a gang that is usually filled with street thugs to possess not only better weaponry, but the same or better armor than a heavily funded law enforcement agency? I read these threads over and over again, with the simple notion from criminals is #NerfPD. As someone who is in SWAT and gets in A LOT of shootouts with gangs, PD armor does not need to be nerfed. In the last 6 months of me being in SWAT, I utilized my 200 AP armor 3 times in shootouts: 

• 1st - Being against Deroses at Burgershot (2022),
• 2nd - Shootout with 9iners in front of Arcadius (2023),
• 3rd - Intercepted a Div 6 and RS shootout at scrapyard (2023)

Out of these 3 shootouts, I only survived the Deroses, the 9iners and Div 6 ones I got shredded and died easily. PD rarely utilizes this armor, and it has to be RP'd to be put on. As for our generic 150 AP armor, same deal here, you can and will get melted by criminals if they actually coordinate and have proper weapons to support it. I have seen criminals with Special Carbines w/ silencers and grips on them with 100 AP armor. Why would it make sense to have us have a max armor of 100 AP, and have worse weaponry?

This reply might not mean anything to anyone, but if you don't believe me, join PD or SD, get into some shootouts, and you will realize we aren't "OP." PD/SD is restricted by heavy IC policies which ultimately helps criminals, when on the flip side, criminals can do anything they realistically want. So we may have good armor, but we lose the freedom that criminals have with fights/shootouts, which is for the better.

TLDR; If you have the numbers, are coordinated, and are just better are shooting people (Which crims are usually better at fighting than PD/SD), then fighting cops shouldn't be a problem and you have pretty high chances of winning and if you don't believe it, join PD/SD and try it for yourself

First, you've got to take into consideration that we're limited to our backup. This means that we can only call on backup from anyone within our own organization or from another group if we're doing a scenario together; if we aren't, then we can only do it ourselves. At peak times, this limits us to about 10–15 people. When we reach peak times, there will be 50+ cops online, with most having 100-200 AP, and we'd simply stand no chance whatsoever.

For every 100 AP we use, we have to pay 40.000 dollars solely for the armor. You mention that you've seen criminals have a special carbine with silencers and 100 AP. Yes, you probably have, but these guys have spent an insane amount of money solely on this one loadout. They're risking so much money by running with this, so I don't see how that's anything to compare to. I'd only say it's fair that you balance it out and fight with equal force. This loadout would take hours of grinding to achieve.

When you talk about weapons, man, I won't even start on what you guys have. PD currently has the strongest guns out of anything on the server. I'm currently seeing PD use Bullpup MK2s, Carbine MK2s, Marksman Rifles, and Special Carbines; these are all standard loadouts, so it's surprising to me that you can say crims have better guns. We have to put in multiple hours of grinding to get one gun as good as what you guys have.

Another small thing I'd like to add is how insanely desyncy the PD armor is. I have multiple POVs where cops have been shot point blank with a shotgun and only a couple of the pellets have registered, or the shots haven't registered at all.

[DoubleA]

This thread has the armor value tweaks that I had listed as well as Harley:

I would like to add though I counted the amount of shots. It was 3 Pump shotgun shots, and 12 .50 shots point blank in this situation. This needs to change, doesnt matter HOW many people say its not a problem, it is.

[Charlie Mchoe]

Ey mane easily solution is to give crims access too 200 AP.

At least we gotta pay for it. The whole point on cops being op is that they have an endless armoury with them at all times. Cops have the same or better guns as criminals I don’t really see how you can argue the point cops aren’t overpowered, I believe they should have the advantage over criminals but not by a massive margin.

[Omer_708002]

+1

[las]

+1

[LucasJHughes]

+1 I have experienced both sides of this, and by the way the armor in the video was only 150AP, not the 200 AP that I see SWAT/SED roll around with on Active Deployments (Whenever there is a Shootout). Just Decrease values slightly and see how it feels, It should not take me 6 or more Pump Shotgun Shots to Kill a SED Member, 200 AP cannot even be obtained by criminal's, and yes sometimes D6 can outnumber PD/SD however a large amount of the time that is not the case, It is not irregular to see 20-30 PD online (on busy days, Friday, Saturday, Sunday) at once and then also being able to call backup from SD and not to mention the OOC Pager that SWAT/SED is allowed to use when there is PvP. Primarily if people with 200AP and the best weaponry are dying to an even fight then it is simply a skill issue, and also the claims that criminals shouldn't go around with good weaponry is just nonsense this is a game and it's meant to be fun not a PD/SD wins all scenario which 90% of the time they do, Saying crims have better weaponry to begin with is just simply not true, the vast majority only have .50's to use or the occasional heavy weapon due to the price of these item's, recently I have been told that SWAT has Carbine MK2's and new weapons that criminals have not even had the chance to touch yet so I fail to understand how criminals have better weaponry than any LEO.

Edited February 3, 2023 by LucasJHughes

[alexalex303]

In regards to the fact that you pay for the armor, that is because you own the armor. The fact of the matter is that as a criminal you can do whatever you want to do with your assets. The car that you drive will more often than not appreciate in value tremendously (see Hakuchou Drag, Comet Retro), the interiors that you own can quite literally turn into a money printer, the weapons that you own can be re-sold for profit or used to rob others for their assets. Contrast that to what can a cop do with his assets? He can't even pull it out whenever he feels like, because there's an in-character rule telling him when he's allowed to do so.

That is why you pay for the armor and he gets it for free.

The notion that law enforcement has a huge advantage in terms of weapon selection has not been true for years. If we're talking about the new player that just scored a .50 at x10 the cost from a player that made profit selling his asset, sure, they will have an advantage over him. However, this thread is populated by extremely old players that have, and have used way better weapons than what law enforcement has available to them.

A good number of people in this thread should remember how very recently 3-5 special carbines with full attachments were used to wipe law enforcement, and their armor didn't seem to help very much. Pretty much everyone in this thread should acknowledge the machine pistol, and how it quite literally melts anything in front of it, a criminal-roleplay exclusive weapon.

The only tangible weapon that criminals do not regularly have access to is a sniper rifle, and even several of those were sold to criminal roleplayers. I think it's time to put to rest the notion that you are out-armed by law enforcement.

[pasha9]

Massive +1