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Revelt

Current State of Eclipse Roleplay

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2 minutes ago, UrbanAwsomeman said:

So your evidence wasn't valid then? If it was valid even with OOC corruption permission he/she would get in trouble.

I got arrested for paying ticket inside mission row, detective give a command towards another officer to arrest me because i've been told to leave mission row meanwhile i dont have anything on me and i dont use a mask, i just pay my ticket there. does it make sense ? i got all the evidence and reported it, just because it was petty i guess, they dont accept it kekw 😄

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2 minutes ago, Revelt said:

I got arrested for paying ticket inside mission row, detective give a command towards another officer to arrest me because i've been told to leave mission row meanwhile i dont have anything on me and i dont use a mask, i just pay my ticket there. does it make sense ? i got all the evidence and reported it, just because it was petty i guess, they dont accept it kekw 😄

So you weren't searched because you were a gang member, you were searched because you disobeyed law enforcement instruction. 🙂

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30 minutes ago, UrbanAwsomeman said:

No one gets searched because they are a convicted felon or a gang leader. If they are being searched on that reason alone that needs to be taken to IA

I am unable to speak on the current actions of PD, but this has been done in the past, although it isn't standard operating procedure for GOB.

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2 hours ago, alexalex303 said:

So you weren't searched because you were a gang member, you were searched because you disobeyed law enforcement instruction. 🙂

HAHAH I remember when u wanted to give me failure to comply Cz you said “shut up” but my character was still talking trying to get a supervisor., imo that law is abused a lot but that’s not the topic of discussion rn 

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23 hours ago, krooks365 said:

I do want to say that Revelt when you were in FSO you always gave the best of RP that you could to every situation so you are right in saying that. When I say what I say it is broad strokes over the whole of the criminal community and not aimed at any single individual or group.

I also want to say I understand what you are saying Bobby. I just think there is a fundamental misunderstanding as to how criminal rp is supposed to work (from pretty much everyone) and its either a willful misunderstanding or just misinformed.

The video that you share - yes that would fly in Mexico. That would never ever ever EVER fly in the United States. We may have seedy areas and places the cops know not to go (or are bribed to leave alone) ((there should be more availability for that sort of bribery and corruption rp imo - IRL criminals who which cops are a little more weak for the cash versus the cops that would just knock em out and drag em in for trying)) If any group or cartel tried to pull that on American soil they would all be dead or imprisoned very quick. We understand that Los Santos is not Los Angeles but it certainly is intended to be an American city. A group trying to operate like that in America would not last very long. That is why our largest gangs here either are street gangs or operate off the radar or primarily in prison systems.

Again I use FSO & Triads as examples because its my experience it is not to paint them as some sort of moral champion or anything. I don't use factions that I have not been a part of because its simple - I don't know them. We had plenty of issues with cops at the beginning and then we adjusted. We worked on a system that we found worked IRL for the Yakuza which included a lot of community work and playing towards an attitude of 'see all the good that we do now turn a blind eye to the bad, better we handle the bad then you risk your cop lives' this was intentional rp that slowed down our PD interactions GREATLY. The only intentional RP that I saw other groups do like this was for example Rooks going under the radar, LFM towards the end dropping colors and going under the radar. Going under the radar isn't a permanent solution but it gives you the time to think up how you can rply get to where you want to be. FSO couldn't just put up a huge sign outside the noodle house and be like 'We are a chinese syndicate and the cops let us be because we are rply stronger than them and we take care of the criminals for them' Our goal was to be left alone by cops so we strategized how to get there and rply worked our way towards that goal. Did I still get pulled over by Steel a lot? Yes, till I stopped letting him catch me lacking. We had a meeting EVERY single week at the same time where we had most of our members packing. And our meeting got raided once maybe two times. A criminal organization is never going to reach 0 conflict with PD but it can be greatly mitigated through RP action.

Anyway's that was long winded and as I get to the end of it I see that my main point is this: PD are an IC problem that have IC methods to address that are successful when used.

What PD is not: the reason criminal rp is in such a tumultuous state.

What is? The crackdown and over management of the types of RP that criminals can engage in. Why is there such a crackdown though? because historically and up until present criminals cannot be trusted to manage themselves to play in a way that is fair to other players (other criminals included). 

Until gangs can operate without this OOC toxicity, this ridiculous NEED to win and push any rival out of the city, and this mindset that you have to be the biggest, the baddest, the top gang in the city it wont change. (again that is not pointed at any one gang but at us all)

  • Why is there such a toxic report mentality every time there is a war? Don't pretend its righteous anger - its because reporting the other side and them getting punished feeds into the ridiculous need to win. There is this ridiculous pride I see some people tout when they go "haha look I got so and so banned"
  • Why is there always a huge war after someone gets official? we always say that its "rp led us here" - no, its because another gang on top threatens our ability to be the biggest, baddest, top gang and that threatens our ability to win. Doesn't matter if we've been allies for the past X amount of time, or that they helped us in the last war - now they are a threat! So the only answer is that they have to be pushed out of the city so that we can loudly say 'SEE! X gang won and X gang LOST"

Sometimes we just need to take a look in a mirror and remind ourselves 'its a freaking game' and move on. If this is how you enjoy playing games with toxicity like this let me recommend RUST. This is supposed to be roleplay - storytelling that is accessible for everyone. How is it in the best interest of the server to lose a whole gang work of criminal rpers because we felt some need to push them out? We are all on the same boat here trying to help create a server that is fun for us all but our actions actively damage the diversity of role players, the quality of immersion and stories that can be told, and our leeway to work with staff to improve things. We are simple too focused on winning. Well I have bad news - in roleplay games there are no winners. The story takes first seat to us all. 

No one wants to confront that tho - its easier to go on and on about PD v Crim. 

---

Actual Suggestions: 

  • (y'all gon hate this one) I personally think that an answer to this is smaller gangs but more gangs. Most servers cap criminal activities at less than 10 people involved. Imagine if we did 20. Imagine how many different groups there would be. Imagine dynamic RP that would flow from all those groups and relations and such.
  • Limit the amount of large cartels/syndicates. Street gangs needed. The official gangs already work under a 'cartel' no city needs 5+ cartels/syndicates. Its also very weird to reconcile ICly. For example why is FSO working for a Hispanic cartel but has ties to a huge Chinese syndicate. Would they not just use those closer connections? I think that either all criminal organizations should have to be rply "smaller" than LFB OR  allow groups to RP "cartel connections" with a group of their choosing. [ex. Irish w/ the IRA, FSO w/ the Triads, LFM/Aztecas w/ Mexican Cartel] to make more RP sense. Any city with 5 cartels is going to have national guard levels of policing that's just ridiculous. 

 

The most well written and most true response to any of these kind of threads. Impressive work and honestly preaching the truth. Hopefully people look and read through your reply and see some kind of mindset change.

Edited by ClankH
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To be honest, in my opinion when it comes to criminal organizations, just let any players create their own groups..... freeroam of group creation or don't whatever it may be. If a triad has control over a hispanic drug cartel, let them.... If one criminal group wants to organize 10 criminal groups, let them.

I never liked this "It's not realistic" mentally when it relates to theoretical matters. Whose not to say an Asian cartel does not have control over a Hispanic organization or vice versa. Whose to say, we can't have 20 large syndicate organizations, why only 5? or 10? Why do we need to have street gangs? Why not let every player create their own type of organization with free rein, its life and its realistic. If gangs want to mexican cartel the street of Los Santos, who's to say it's not realistic. 

And I disagree, parts of the United States is like parts of Mexico or other horrific places in other parts of the world. Chicago, Seattle, Baltimore, etc. 

Lets stop limiting the way players on this server can roleplay and stop whining about "its not realistic to arrest him" or "its not realistic to rob a cop". Let chaos roam free, and you shall see activity bloom. 

If criminals want to RP underground and lowkey, cool.

If criminals want to outright slaughter people during the day, drive bys, raids on areas, etc, ok cool....

This isn't a PD v Criminal comment mentality, but more so for us as a community to stop limiting roleplay and calling essentially everything and anything "unrealistic".

I get there's balance to be made, but sometimes the goal for a balance just goes too far....to the point it makes no sense...

Bottom-line again.. as I have said and will keep saying.. If server rules are followed, no meta-gaming, no power-gaming, not VDM or DM, or what have you. Then players should roleplay what they want as long as it's "PHYSICALLY REALISTIC".

 

Suggestion:

  1. Freedom of group creation
  2. Script will require player to have 3000XP before invitation.
    1. If invited under 3k XP, script will prohibit it.
    2. Create a Server Rule prohibiting the abuse of character creation for mass recruitment. (This would make sense...)
  3. Any groups with a certain amount of members (20+) have ability to..
    1. Arms Traffic/Smuggle
    2. Drug Traffic/Smuggle
    3. etc. Any criminal scripted perks, let them have it.
  4. Instead of putting a limit on "realism", put a limit on their member count.
    1. Under 15 members, can't do anything, but create/join a group.
    2. 15+ members can take over turfs.
    3. 30+ members can drug traffic.
    4. 40+ members can arms traffic.
  5. Turfs
    1. Put a timer on when a turf can be taken
      1. Only 3 turfs on the map (small/large) will be able to be fought for say every...72 hours...from the time of capture.
      2. There needs to be an IC/RP reason for the gang to be attacking the other group or capturing their  turf, not just because they want more land.
        1. IC Beef, etc. 
        2. Ex: cheating girls, punched a homie in the face, talking smack... , etc.
      3. This will prevent the server from becoming an ongoing DM server.
    2. Benefits of having a turf
      1. Groups created will be disbanded within 14 days of creation, if they do not have a turf.
      2. If group has no turf, their disbandment timer will start for the 14 days...
        1. No turf in 14 days = Group is deleted, and all members removed.

This chaos will give more activity into the server for everyone, not just those who are within "official" criminal groups... This will give PD, SD, DOC, JUDICIAL, a HUGE run lol.

This chaos will also give a reason to have a "National Guard", and I don't mean an "admin" faction, I mean full out roleplay enlistment, military training and drills for anyone on the server to join and partake in.....

 

Edited by Percival
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I agree with lower the gang cap. Back when i played arma when a rule clearly was broken the players always have to speak first about the situation if it was possible, the player that broke the rule had a chance to pay for the item that was  lost. Cause it's mainly why people report is to get their stuff back or try to get someone in trouble so they don't have to see them again it's not for education purpose. I think something that should be a thing. It would be also less reports and people get to talk to each other and educate each other. It worked on arma don't know if it works here maybe stupid thing to say.  

Edited by aadamftw
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3 hours ago, aadamftw said:

I agree with lower the gang cap. Back when i played arma when a rule clearly was broken the players always have to speak first about the situation if it was possible, the player that broke the rule had a chance to pay for the item that was  lost. Cause it's mainly why people report is to get their stuff back or try to get someone in trouble so they don't have to see them again it's not for education purpose. I think something that should be a thing. It would be also less reports and people get to talk to each other and educate each other. It worked on arma don't know if it works here maybe stupid thing to say.  

 

I see your point, but I have to respectfully disagree. We should not lower the gang cap or department cap. Everything needs to be dealt with IC and through IC ramifications...

I.e LSPD won't hire more people if they can't afford. 

Gangs should be able to have as many people as they choose if they want to build an empire if they can handle it.

Lets stop with the OOC limitations onto roleplay, and just let whatever happen, happen... 

Only then will we truly have an immersive... full out VIRTUAL WORLD of LIFE.

If we disable the Nametags to use ALT HOLD, we mind as well remove some OOC limitations on roleplay.... if not..... what was the actual point of making the ALT HOLD on Nametags???????? I understand its to make a "perception" of realism... but if its possible... to make things on the server more realistic... why limit the roleplay???? Why say, 1 gang can't take control of 6 criminal organizations? Why say, a gang needs to be official to arms traffic? Why say, we can't have planes when it can be made possible.

No faction cap per OOC means

If they can afford it IC, let them. Want to lower gang's membership, LEO's should attack their finances, take their money, and assets, make them smaller..... 

LSPD Wants more funding for more officers? Gov raise taxes... sell things, etc... make money in general ...

Gang wants to build empire??? Take control of different revenue streams.... 

Everything I've mentioned is 100% possible to do on the server with this player base and the resources currently in this community.

CAMPAIGN: STOP LIMITING ROLEPLAY

 

Edited by Percival
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Please explain your decision to "nay" @alexalex303 🙂

Why can't "flashlights" be purchasable at the stores by every and all players?

Why can't players buy the different firearms other than the ones we have now? i.e. revolver, AP pistol, Ceramic Pistol.

  • Because its not realistic, because revolver acts like a sniper (reduce damage tho?), ceramic pistols are illegal irl (put in arms traffic)?

Why can't players buy say a Musket? acts like a sniper.. players will kill each others... (cant they just be punished for DMing, if rule was broken, why not have?)

Why must a player in a cop faction have to portray the expected "police officer" demeanor?

Why can't players freely buy planes and helicopters?

  • They will use it to kill people
    • Ban for VDM (?)
  • They will crash the planes into buildings.
    • Ban for VDM (?)
  • Their games may crash mid-flight.
    • Script it so, if pilot crashes, plane is automatically teleported to the Los Santos International Airport Hangars with the passengers still inside.
    • This solution will prevent planes raining onto the streets
    • This solution will prevent people dying or explosions on the streets.
    • This solution will give players more to do on the server
    • This solution will allow the establishment for a division in government
      • Federal Aviation Administration
        • Trains and licenses pilots
        • Manages and enforces flight regulations
        • Secures travel for all flights.
  • Fun fact: Aircrafts are better synced in-game.
  • Players  in aircrafts in the sky, can see every detail and motion and person/vehicle on the ground in real-time.
  • BUT...… NO.... WE CAN'T HAVE IT.....

 

We as a community need to stop telling ourselves, we can't do it, we can't do it. and START asking the question... 

  • WHAT CAN WE DO TO MAKE THIS A POSSIBILITY?
  • HOW CAN WE MITIGATE PROBLEMS AND RISKS FROM OCCURING?
Edited by Percival
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1 hour ago, Percival said:

Please explain your decision to "nay" @alexalex303 🙂

Why can't "flashlights" be purchasable at the stores by every and all players?

Why can't players buy the different firearms other than the ones we have now? i.e. revolver, AP pistol, Ceramic Pistol.

  • Because its not realistic, because revolver acts like a sniper (reduce damage tho?), ceramic pistols are illegal irl (put in arms traffic)?

Why can't players buy say a Musket? acts like a sniper.. players will kill each others... (cant they just be punished for DMing, if rule was broken, why not have?)

Why must a player in a cop faction have to portray the expected "police officer" demeanor?

Why can't players freely buy planes and helicopters?

  • They will use it to kill people
    • Ban for VDM (?)
  • They will crash the planes into buildings.
    • Ban for VDM (?)
  • Their games may crash mid-flight.
    • Script it so, if pilot crashes, plane is automatically teleported to the Los Santos International Airport Hangars with the passengers still inside.
    • This solution will prevent planes raining onto the streets
    • This solution will prevent people dying or explosions on the streets.
    • This solution will give players more to do on the server
    • This solution will allow the establishment for a division in government
      • Federal Aviation Administration
        • Trains and licenses pilots
        • Manages and enforces flight regulations
        • Secures travel for all flights.
  • Fun fact: Aircrafts are better synced in-game.
  • Players  in aircrafts in the sky, can see every detail and motion and person/vehicle on the ground in real-time.
  • BUT...… NO.... WE CAN'T HAVE IT.....

 

We as a community need to stop telling ourselves, we can't do it, we can't do it. and START asking the question... 

  • WHAT CAN WE DO TO MAKE THIS A POSSIBILITY?
  • HOW CAN WE MITIGATE PROBLEMS AND RISKS FROM OCCURING?

I think it will be too much chaos. I know damn well everyone is going to be flying their airplanes, just like everyone be carrying a gun. If there were heavy weapon licenses, everyone will have a micro on their hip. The best way to mitigate problems and risks is to simply just not allow it or have it.

I agree that rules should definitely be loosened up. For example, the robbery rule, it should be more about not robbing your average citizen doing their day-to-day job. It shouldn't apply to rival gang members. If someone is talking shit, you should be able to rob them anywhere or if someone is wearing your colors, you should be able to rob them. 

Same thing with the death match rule, it should be more about not killing a random person on the street. However, if someone stole your car, you should be able to shoot them...not shout demands that they are clearly going to ignore.

Same thing with placing charges on someone. Obviously, you shouldn't place charges on someone randomly in the MDC. However, if you know Jimmy is a big-time criminal who drives the same car everyday, wears the same clothes everyday, has a distinct voice and you see a man evade from you driving the same car that Jimmy drives, the same clothes that Jimmy wears, and sounds exactly like Jimmy, and you even check to see that the registered owner is Jimmy. Only to find out that the driver is wearing a mask, so it clearly isn't Jimmy. Maybe the DOJ will help with this, but that rule should be loosened up as well.

Some of the rules are way too strict that you have to be very conscious about what you do, even if it makes sense RPly.

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1 minute ago, tylxrrr said:

I think it will be too much chaos. I know damn well everyone is going to be flying their airplanes, just like everyone be carrying a gun. If there were heavy weapon licenses, everyone will have a micro on their hip. The best way to mitigate problems and risks is to simply just not allow it or have it.

I agree that rules should definitely be loosened up. For example, the robbery rule, it should be more about not robbing your average citizen doing their day-to-day job. It shouldn't apply to rival gang members. If someone is talking shit, you should be able to rob them anywhere or if someone is wearing your colors, you should be able to rob them. 

Same thing with the death match rule, it should be more about not killing a random person on the street. However, if someone stole your car, you should be able to shoot them...not shout demands that they are clearly going to ignore.

Same thing with placing charges on someone. Obviously, you shouldn't place charges on someone randomly in the MDC. However, if you know Jimmy is a big-time criminal who drives the same car everyday, wears the same clothes everyday, has a distinct voice and you see a man evade from you driving the same car that Jimmy drives, the same clothes that Jimmy wears, and sounds exactly like Jimmy, and you even check to see that the registered owner is Jimmy. Only to find out that the driver is wearing a mask, so it clearly isn't Jimmy. Maybe the DOJ will help with this, but that rule should be loosened up as well.

Some of the rules are way too strict that you have to be very conscious about what you do, even if it makes sense RPly.

Thats a very basic way of thinking, to have it to not to have it? What people don't think of or don't care to think of is how we can control the chaos by implementing it. 

The FAA can regulate how many flights can bein the skies at one time.

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1 hour ago, Percival said:

Please explain your decision to "nay" @alexalex303 🙂

Why can't "flashlights" be purchasable at the stores by every and all players?

Why can't players buy the different firearms other than the ones we have now? i.e. revolver, AP pistol, Ceramic Pistol.

  • Because its not realistic, because revolver acts like a sniper (reduce damage tho?), ceramic pistols are illegal irl (put in arms traffic)?

Why can't players buy say a Musket? acts like a sniper.. players will kill each others... (cant they just be punished for DMing, if rule was broken, why not have?)

Why must a player in a cop faction have to portray the expected "police officer" demeanor?

Why can't players freely buy planes and helicopters?

  • They will use it to kill people
    • Ban for VDM (?)
  • They will crash the planes into buildings.
    • Ban for VDM (?)
  • Their games may crash mid-flight.
    • Script it so, if pilot crashes, plane is automatically teleported to the Los Santos International Airport Hangars with the passengers still inside.
    • This solution will prevent planes raining onto the streets
    • This solution will prevent people dying or explosions on the streets.
    • This solution will give players more to do on the server
    • This solution will allow the establishment for a division in government
      • Federal Aviation Administration
        • Trains and licenses pilots
        • Manages and enforces flight regulations
        • Secures travel for all flights.
  • Fun fact: Aircrafts are better synced in-game.
  • Players  in aircrafts in the sky, can see every detail and motion and person/vehicle on the ground in real-time.
  • BUT...… NO.... WE CAN'T HAVE IT.....

 

We as a community need to stop telling ourselves, we can't do it, we can't do it. and START asking the question... 

  • WHAT CAN WE DO TO MAKE THIS A POSSIBILITY?
  • HOW CAN WE MITIGATE PROBLEMS AND RISKS FROM OCCURING?

Damn, I would honestly love to have planes on the server.
I've been thinking of making a proposition about having a restricted Air-Show faction, just for experienced players and all that, to do, well, AirShows.
I didn't do it yet because I wasn't sure what the devs/staff thinks about planes on the server, but I guess now I know.
I think bringing planes on the server, even though a really hard task for the devs (because the solutions you propose might be possiblem but it's hard as hell to implement them), would have an awesome outcome, honestly.

 

2 hours ago, Percival said:

CAMPAIGN: STOP LIMITING ROLEPLAY

I also fully agree with this.

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1 minute ago, Percival said:

Thats a very basic way of thinking, to have it to not to have it? What people don't think of or don't care to think of is how we can control the chaos by implementing it. 

The FAA can regulate how many flights can bein the skies at one time.

Okay, let's say there were airplanes. How many would be up in the air? The map isn't going to be able to have many planes in the skies. Imagine the amount of crashes that would happen each day. Imagine if a plane crashes into the pier, killing people who are fishing, just because they code 0ed. Sure the same can happen with a car, but in GTA the planes will explode on impact. I just don't see it being feasible. It would definitely be cool to have, but in our environment, I don't see it being a good idea.

Since you brought up the FAA, I don't know how true this quote is, but it seems about right. "On a normal day, at any given moment, FlightRadar24 would be tracking anywhere between 8,000 to 20,000 planes mid-flight, which is a lot more than it's following now." This is worldwide. Now imagine just how many planes would be in the sky around Los Angeles...since Los Santos is based on Los Angeles.

 

Link: https://www.traveltalkmag.com.au/news/how-many-planes-are-in-the-air-right-now

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There has to be regulation of rp. There is no way to have /no/ regulation. However regulation of RP can only be loosened up when players can be trusted to play fairly. We are not at that place yet. 

Also Los Santos is relatively small there is NO need for people to be having these huge gangs it's unrealistic, it leads to alot of these issues. Imagine if there were more smaller gangs there would be so much more vibrant RP vs the same big gangs fighting all the time. 

No gang needs to be an empire ruling the entire city. That mindset needs to stop imo. At least the empire style we've seen in the past with flooding of cars and people getting robbed cause they wore a color. 

What your calling for Percival would be such a drastic change and I fear it would return to a wild west wasteland of people killing, robbing, etc anyone. And the staff have obviously by script and rule changes moved us away from that. 

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1 hour ago, krooks365 said:

There has to be regulation of rp. There is no way to have /no/ regulation. However regulation of RP can only be loosened up when players can be trusted to play fairly. We are not at that place yet. 

Also Los Santos is relatively small there is NO need for people to be having these huge gangs it's unrealistic, it leads to alot of these issues. Imagine if there were more smaller gangs there would be so much more vibrant RP vs the same big gangs fighting all the time. 

No gang needs to be an empire ruling the entire city. That mindset needs to stop imo. At least the empire style we've seen in the past with flooding of cars and people getting robbed cause they wore a color. 

What your calling for Percival would be such a drastic change and I fear it would return to a wild west wasteland of people killing, robbing, etc anyone. And the staff have obviously by script and rule changes moved us away from that. 

You’re missing the part where those “big gangs” actually start out small and do tons of rp to add to their story leading the a point where they are huge., all earned ICly and can be dealt with ICly., I don’t think adding more restrictions is the solution., let’s even take zetas as an example., they provided a lot of rp to the crim scene and even tho the rules were different in 2019 and a lot of people would say that was one of the best times on ECRP., they barely had any restrictions., so yeah idt more restrictions is the solution, restrictions are the problem, if gangs are allowed to compete and grow conflicts based on not wanting x gang to grow for example., it would not be valid., that allows gangs to reach that point because the rules are forcing all gangs to be too friendly to each other (even in terms of rp I’m not talking about shootouts or “action rp” )       and not letting gangs do their rp organically since the start caused a lot of issues as a lot of RP and IC interactions was impeded by the OOC restrictions. If gang a b c for instance fight as competitors then as gang a is standing strongest they decide to stop the fighting and achieve certain terms (zetas did taxes) and that made sense and situations like that provided more RP.

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11 minutes ago, CalvinKlein said:

You’re missing the part where those “big gangs” actually start out small and do tons of rp to add to their story leading the a point where they are huge

I am not missing this part. I am stating that at some point groups should naturally limit themselves to a smaller number for greater more varied rp for the good of all. That is my point. Not that it should be a rule that is limited and enforced by staff but that gangs could operate smaller for better overall story and play for all on their own.

I've been a part of two LARGE gangs that have gone through those process to grow slowly - I after much deliberation and looking on my history in the server and in gangs. I had MORE fun, had MORE rp, had MORE freedom, when both of these gangs were in the 20-30 range. Once 30+ became a thing it was not as rich experience for me. That is where my statements are founded.

Again I say: the freedom you seek is only achievable when criminal players can come to a play style and agreement of how to play that is fair to all players. The regulation is attempts to balance not to restrict and are purely reactionary to how criminal players behave. Not any specific one player but the community as a whole. If we want less restriction we have to behave in a way that warrants it - demanding it while we misbehave will never be successful.

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2 hours ago, tylxrrr said:

Okay, let's say there were airplanes. How many would be up in the air? The map isn't going to be able to have many planes in the skies. Imagine the amount of crashes that would happen each day. Imagine if a plane crashes into the pier, killing people who are fishing, just because they code 0ed. Sure the same can happen with a car, but in GTA the planes will explode on impact. I just don't see it being feasible. It would definitely be cool to have, but in our environment, I don't see it being a good idea.

Since you brought up the FAA, I don't know how true this quote is, but it seems about right. "On a normal day, at any given moment, FlightRadar24 would be tracking anywhere between 8,000 to 20,000 planes mid-flight, which is a lot more than it's following now." This is worldwide. Now imagine just how many planes would be in the sky around Los Angeles...since Los Santos is based on Los Angeles.

 

Link: https://www.traveltalkmag.com.au/news/how-many-planes-are-in-the-air-right-now

If you read the suggestions fully you would see that I brought up the issues and risks involved, i.e vdm and code 0’d and yet again you bring up the same reason others do... and yet again turn towards irl to the server when we all know its not. Obviously air traffic will not allow the same number of a drastic number of planes in the sky at a time. Obviously the faa can train pilots to fly a certain way with radio calls and etc, obviously we wouldnt just let everyone fly a plane and flight school and licensing can become a thing which i presume could be very strict in terms of following ic regulations.

that same mindset is like saying, we gotta start driving 50km everywhere because irl in “los angeles” theres heavy traffic so everyone drives very slow... irl we should drive like traffic jams because los angeles has the worst in united states.

no disrespect and I thank you for bringing up these counter-reasons as it just goes to show exactly what I and many others are up against.

IRL cops are construction workers, uber drivers, politicians, attorneys, yet we can only join two gov factions ??? Seriously.... tbh i hate this mindset. If we do it for one thing we should do it for all, and should not be picking and choosing. Want an immersive gameplay? Find out ways to mitigate ooc problems.. dont just say nah players on ecrp misbehave we cant have nice things... so what... what about the other players who dedicate commitment and time and efforts??? They good they just join a faction and rp good ok ... like what!!!!

 

i completet understand it if ooc problems cannot be mitigate at all... no matter what.... BUT if it can why are we still using the same excuses!?!!? Excuses after excuses after excuses after excuses

Edited by Percival
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Hi, this is an interesting discussion. There are crims defending criminal gameplay and cops defending cop gameplay. Depends which side of the fence you are on. Would be interesting to hear from people who play a good amount of time on both sides of the fence.. I haven't really tried to much crim on the server but the little I did try I found that the cops roll up and the fact is, you will be in prison regardless of anything you say or have actually done. You will probably lose all of your possessions and any cash you had on you. When you get released, you'll go to the MRPD and they won't be able to find your stuff. At the end of the day, you lose EVERYTHING if you play crim, cops lose nothing.  As a crim you need to grind out 18 or 20k to get a gun, you need a car with fuel in it, when you get caught, you lose it all, car is impounded, lose 2-4 hrs of game play time in the prison. Being a cop is easy,  IMO the crim would not mind being unsuccesful in his crime if he can actually escape and not be in prison. That's the part that hurts in addition to the crippling fines. It takes hours and maybe days to get the money needed for guns and enough to pay fines if you are caught but 10 mins of a cops day that has cost him nothing. No wonder everyone wants to be a cop. Being a crim is not fun but essential so cops have something to do.

RP wise, you should have a chance to talk your way out of it or be able to present a credible reason that deserves to be taken seriously. The cop can also be able to counter that based on what he has seen but that rarely happens as it is too one sided and pre-decided as I've seen many time when I watch people get pulled over. I would like to see the cop talk to the driver and engage in a good way to start with. It's not a us versus them situation it's a people to people one. This is also for non cop v crim stuff. Don't even get me started on the pier. There seems to be a very aggressive RP vibe on the pier and that can go in many different ways. I think there needs to be more civilain stuff outside of scripted jobs. The robbery rule change has certainly improved things in the city as not many people run away now when you approach them and I am more likely to help someone now. So there are positive changes but there needs to be more content for civilians.

I love cops and server staff are all lovely in the hope this doesn't get me banned.

Edited by MarmadukeJinx
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14 hours ago, krooks365 said:

I am not missing this part. I am stating that at some point groups should naturally limit themselves to a smaller number for greater more varied rp for the good of all. That is my point. Not that it should be a rule that is limited and enforced by staff but that gangs could operate smaller for better overall story and play for all on their own.

I've been a part of two LARGE gangs that have gone through those process to grow slowly - I after much deliberation and looking on my history in the server and in gangs. I had MORE fun, had MORE rp, had MORE freedom, when both of these gangs were in the 20-30 range. Once 30+ became a thing it was not as rich experience for me. That is where my statements are founded.

Again I say: the freedom you seek is only achievable when criminal players can come to a play style and agreement of how to play that is fair to all players. The regulation is attempts to balance not to restrict and are purely reactionary to how criminal players behave. Not any specific one player but the community as a whole. If we want less restriction we have to behave in a way that warrants it - demanding it while we misbehave will never be successful.

With all due respect, I completely understand that the rules are created to balance the server. However its pretty much shown how rules created to balance the server may also bring unwanted side-effects as well. 
 

it’s good that you enjoy a smaller criminal group, but why can’t someone else enjoy a criminal group with 100 members? If a 100 criminal org exists, they’ll be up a battle with lspd and sd, then it will cause a IC reaction by pd and sd to tackle the ic problems... i.e lspd making divisions etc... lspd increasing swat count etc... lol.. gov opening up enlistments and calling on duty reserves to deploy amidst security events or dangerous gang wars or etc... these rules we seem to tend to a certain player...but if we tend to a certain player who wants things small or wants things to be more ooc restricted, how can we grow as a server???? Fishing is fking boring..... everyone knows that.... its only fun thing is chatting with friends and picking up ladies at the pier... lol 😘

we keep saying how much the server misbehaves... I disagree.... for a long time now i’ve noticed how people who made crims then joined lspd act in no way.... immaturely... mind you these are the same people lspd/sd hates icly... same trouble makers icly... but on a different character they’re committed to learning and roleplaying. Ooc they chill people ... who knows how to roleplay....

Another message to management: Don’t give up on the players in ECRP so easily.... 

Edited by Percival
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3 minutes ago, Percival said:

With all due respect, I completely understand that the rules are created to balance the server. However its pretty much shown how rules created to balance the server may also bring unwanted side-effects as well. 
 

it’s good that you enjoy a smaller criminal group, but why can’t someone else enjoy a criminal group with 100 members? If a 100 criminal org exists, they’ll be up a battle with lspd and sd, then it will cause a IC reaction by pd and sd to tackle the ic problems... i.e lspd making divisions etc... lspd increasing swat count etc... lol.. gov opening up enlistments and calling on duty reserves to deploy amidst security events or dangerous gang wars or etc... these rules we seem to tend to a certain player...but if we tend to a certain player who wants things small or wants things to be more ooc restricted, how can we grow as a server???? Fishing is fking boring..... everyone knows that.... its only fun thing is chatting with friends and picking up ladies at the pier... lol 😘

I haven't been in that many wars, but from what i've seen wars just turns into forum wars. I've been killed unfairly so many times but i rather talk about it then make a report, that's why i haven't ever made a report because i rather talk about. I don't really care about losing stuff i'm not here for the gear. 

Edited by aadamftw
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3 minutes ago, aadamftw said:

I haven't been in that many wars, but from what i've seen wars just turns into forum wars. I've been killed unfairly so many times but i rather talk about it then make a report, that's why i haven't ever made a report because i rather talk about. I don't really care about losing stuff i'm not here for the gear. 

If server rule was violated I get it, thats not ic at all. But if not... why are we restricting it? Thats the problem. 
 

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