Gas Usage is far too high

[Jleoni]

The patch note says realistic, if you want to make it more realistic allow cars to travel hundreds of miles on a single tank, as opposed to <10 miles that some cars are able to travel now.  This is a very anti-fun, anti-realism, anti-civ/crim, pro PD/SD, pro-VIP, pro gas station owner change, and quite a few of us struggle to understand why it was implemented?

Edited December 23, 2020 by Jleoni

[IAmTurtle]

It’s was implemented so cars would not be driving for hours straight with out having to refuel

[CarryOut]

I get where you're both coming from.

IAmTurtle, isn't that how it is in real life. People are able to drive cars for for hours straight without having to refuel them. 
I think the change is good ultimately, and I have no complaints over gas tanks being shrunk or enlarged to fit certain vehicles. 
I also think a big change should be gas prices, but I've never personally owned a gas station so I'm not sure what the prices are right now. They used to be $5 to import per liter, but they may have increased. I also understand that unless the gas prices were increased scriptly to be ordered, then it's an IC issue. 

So overall I think +/-1 for this post, just because I don't feel like it's been around long enough to have a solid opinion on. 

If you drive a BF400 and run from cops, expect to have to refuel before them for obvious reasons.

 

[Charlotte Valmont]

+1

 

I agree - it isn't realistic at all and constantly needing to refuel slices through otherwise good RP. I hope they consider changing it back or doing something different. 

[SLEEKMUFC]

I understand the intention behind this fuel system update and that different vehicles having different fuel tank sizes makes sense. I also appreciate the devs working on new changes to keep the server feeling fresh and I like most of the other changes that were made. However, I feel the new fuel system in it’s current state needs changing.

The only reasoning I’ve heard for this change being implemented is because it’s ‘realistic’ but in it’s current state, with how fast fuel burns, it’s the complete opposite and a bad experience, especially for non-VIPs. Therefore, I am going to suggest either changing the rate at which fuel is used to a much slower rate, increasing the fuel tank sizes in vehicles, or reverting this change altogether.

I don’t think it’s even a pro-gas station owner change because as far as I understand, the fuel still costs the same but the vehicles just hold a lot less. This means you might pay a few hundred dollars to refuel to 100% which just leads to having to refuel much more regularly without actually spending any more on fuel than before the change. The rate at which fuel is used, and therefore the frequency at which you are now forced to refuel, is the huge issue here and in my opinion, makes the server a lot less enjoyable.

Out of curiosity and in reply to what @IAmTurtle said above, can you elaborate on what the problem is with “cars driving for hours straight without having to refuel”? Is trying to prevent that a good enough reason to justify introducing this huge disruption to many RP scenarios and practically making VIP an essential part of playing on the server to avoid it becoming a refuelling simulator?

Hopefully we can get back to doing more roleplaying and less refuelling soon.

[Ash]

Something to keep in mind is that driving non stop for hours IRL is sometimes days IC. I could drive around for 10-20 IRL hours in my vehicle with the old system which is 40-80 hours In-character which I don't think was realistic for the car. Refueling is something i did once a week if that as a mild inconvenience and now it makes sense, if i wish to lap the state a few times I should be expected to make pit stops especially in small-tank vehicles.
I think the new system adds a new layer of choice in what car to buy and whilst it sure can be annoying for the ones it badly affects, overall from the cars I've personally tested I don't think there's anything unreasonable. A main one i've seen is the quad bike that lasts 30 mins IRL which would be 2 hours IC, its awful sure, but for what quad bikes should be used for I think that makes sense.

As for the pro-gas station owner comment, the current gas prices is absolutely an issue as they've banded together into an oligopoly. BUT this is 100% an in-character issue that people have been speaking up about ICly and is irrelevant to this change.

[Charlotte Valmont]

10 minutes ago, SLEEKMUFC said:

Is trying to prevent that a good enough reason to justify introducing this huge disruption to many RP scenarios and practically making VIP an essential part of playing on the server to avoid it becoming a refuelling simulator?

Another great point. I have VIP and I can say for certain that I consume fuel now faster than non-VIP's did before the change. I genuinely cannot imagine the hell it must be for non-VIP players right now. 

 

Also - I think its important to reflect on what "realistic" means on ECRP. The way I see it, its sort of an uncanny valley surrealism experience. There is certainly elements of realism here but also major elements of fantasy. There has to be a balance between both as well as something to work for. Gas, food, housing, are all over the top expensive in a way that oddly makes sense in the grind culture of ECRP. Using half, if not more, a tank of gas to go from the city to paleto doesn't make sense. 

[Oli]

+1 - You're trying to add "realism" into the server but I dont think VIP is realistic either yet it affects A LOT of IC things like taxes + fuel consumption.

 

9 hours ago, IAmTurtle said:

It’s was implemented so cars would not be driving for hours straight with out having to refuel

Dont see a problem there as you can easily drive your car for hours straight IRL without the need to refuel if you have a full tank.

 

6 minutes ago, DrPathetic said:

Something to keep in mind is that driving non stop for hours IRL is sometimes days IC. I could drive around for 10-20 IRL hours in my vehicle with the old system which is 40-80 hours In-character which I don't think was realistic for the car. Refueling is something i did once a week if that as a mild inconvenience and now it makes sense, if i wish to lap the state a few times I should be expected to make pit stops especially in small-tank vehicles.
I think the new system adds a new layer of choice in what car to buy and whilst it sure can be annoying for the ones it badly affects, overall from the cars I've personally tested I don't think there's anything unreasonable. A main one i've seen is the quad bike that lasts 30 mins IRL which would be 2 hours IC, its awful sure, but for what quad bikes should be used for I think that makes sense.

That's simply because you RP as a DOC guard. If you're a crim, you're driving most of the time, moving from an RP situation to another, responding to back up calls, attending meetings and generally just using the vehicle 90% of the time while logged in. Same applies to all legal jobs when compared to crim life, which makes it that crims PAY more than legals, even tho legals get paid more (putting in mind risk factors).

[Ash]

2 minutes ago, Oli said:

That's simply because you RP as a DOC guard. If you're a crim, you're driving most of the time, moving from an RP situation to another, responding to back up calls, attending meetings and generally just using the vehicle 90% of the time while logged in. Same applies to all legal jobs when compared to crim life, which makes it that crims PAY more than legals, even tho legals get paid more (putting in mind risk factors).

Yeah i do understand that for sure, it's a money sink to an already struggling criminal side. But from another point of view, why not start using vehicles that are more efficient in this regard instead of going for the sports or super fast vehicles that would have smaller tanks and efficiency and aim for attrition instead of just instantly complaining about a new system and giving it a try at some alternative solutions for more than a few hours like is being done in this thread? 

[SLEEKMUFC]

43 minutes ago, DrPathetic said:

Yeah i do understand that for sure, it's a money sink to an already struggling criminal side. But from another point of view, why not start using vehicles that are more efficient in this regard instead of going for the sports or super fast vehicles that would have smaller tanks and efficiency and aim for attrition instead of just instantly complaining about a new system and giving it a try at some alternative solutions for more than a few hours like is being done in this thread? 

Do you not see a huge problem in forcing players to use a specific type of vehicle to accommodate the changes though? The Blazer vehicle now goes from 100% to 0% fuel in roughly 10 minutes for non-VIP users. The Bifta isn’t much different, going from 100% to 0% fuel in roughly 30 minutes of driving for non-VIP users. So already, there’s two vehicles that have been made practically unusable for non-VIP users due to the change. There is the realistic element of having different vehicles with different fuel tank sizes. I don’t think anyone is rubbishing that idea, it is the absurd change in size of fuel tanks that is clearly the issue for many people and that is what I am suggesting gets adjusted.

I also think it’s kind of unfair to say “instantly complaining” when I and others are taking our time to put together suggestions for the good of the future of this server and are certainly not dismissing the new system’s concept, just suggesting alterations that could be made to it. It takes very little time to feel the difference that the fuel system update brings and I think many other players share the same feelings that we are putting across in this thread. If you don’t want suggestions from the community then close the community suggestions section?

Edited December 21, 2020 by SLEEKMUFC

[CalvinKlein]

+1 to an altercation, IRL you drive huge distances before having to refuel on a full tank 

[Ash]

3 minutes ago, SLEEKMUFC said:

Do you not see a huge problem in forcing players to use a specific type of vehicle to accommodate the changes though? The Blazer vehicle now goes from 100% to 0% fuel in roughly 10 minutes for non-VIP users. The Bifta isn’t much different, going from 100% to 0% fuel in roughly 30 minutes of driving for non-VIP users. So already, there’s two vehicles that have been made practically unusable for non-VIP users due to the change. There is the realistic element of having different vehicles with different fuel tank sizes. I don’t think anyone is rubbishing that idea, it is the absurd change in size of fuel tanks that is clearly the issue for many people and that is what I am suggesting gets adjusted.

I also think it’s kind of unfair to say “instantly complaining” when I and others are taking our time to put together suggestions for the good of the future of this server and are certainly not dismissing the new system’s concept, just suggesting alterations that could be made to it. It takes very little time to feel the difference that the fuel system update brings and I think many other players share the same feelings that we are putting across in this thread. If you don’t want suggestions from the community then close the community suggestions section?

My wording could have been better on that, I agree but I was mainly referring to the initial post that was basically "change it back, it's rubbish" with no real suggestions like you mention such as "increase it for X vehicle as its unusable". I totally agree with that kind of point you make about the bifta. 
Making a list of vehicles that are the extremes of how they're affected by this change would be infinitely more useful than the initial post of this suggestion. 

[Vez]

+1 this change was clearly another pd buff, they get spawn in cars with double gas in the first place, none of them hardly even pay for gas they just spawn another car, my bf400 can only be driven for like 10 minutes straight now until i run out of gas, so If I try to run from pd I only get around 10 minutes to try and lose them before I run out of gas while they aren't even close to running out of gas, good stuff guys. I would understand this change on the drag, due to how op it is compared to everything else on the server but every vehicle is an overstep and annoying. 

Edited December 21, 2020 by Vez

[Oli]

9 hours ago, DrPathetic said:

Yeah i do understand that for sure, it's a money sink to an already struggling criminal side. But from another point of view, why not start using vehicles that are more efficient in this regard instead of going for the sports or super fast vehicles that would have smaller tanks and efficiency and aim for attrition instead of just instantly complaining about a new system and giving it a try at some alternative solutions for more than a few hours like is being done in this thread? 

The type of vehicles the server is forcing us to use gives us no chance of evading cops / opps. And if one chooses not to, he'll run out of gas in 10mins, again giving him no chance of evading.

[pepijn26]

+1 IRL you are easily able to drive 1200+KM with a good fuel economy. for some reason cars use to much fuel.

[bunko]

Big +1 for the same obvious reasons

[Denza]

or since we have a mileage system, script cars to have an MPG

[Bala]

Each vehicle now has a fuel tank size comparable to their real-life counterpart where as before that was not the case.
Each vehicle also has it's own individual MPG from their real-life counterpart. 

I know this as I was one of the people that provided the information for the tank size and the MPG.
That being said, the issue isn't necessary tank size or MPG, it's the frequency of when the fuel consumption is called in the script.

I'm not a developer, so don't take my word for it, but I would imagine that the fuel consumption will be addressed if it's unbalanced. There are just a number of bigger issues that take priority.

The values may change but the thought process behind the system won't. The more fuel efficient and bigger the tank on a vehicle, the less time between refuelling. The maths might need revisiting but the logic is solid.

[CaesarSeizure]

1 hour ago, Denza said:

since we have a mileage system, script cars to have an MPG

I believe that was the intention and it sort of does have that, just some vehicles are not really efficient. But those same vehicles are not exactly vehicles you would be using for long trips to begin with.

There are plenty of good alternatives, and before people bring PD more into this, the cruiser consumption is about average. I think just like any meta vehicles, it will take time for people to find what is good and what is not. I mean the F620 was on the server forever, till eventually people really discovered it.

[CalvinKlein]

9 hours ago, Solomun said:

Big brother complains about the play-to-win mentality and yet manipulate gas usage on certain cars, further limiting the meta of cars being allowed to in criminal RP, nice stuff guys.

Not sure if it’s true but apparently drags use gas x4 times faster - even tho irl it’s basically a Hayabusa and can go between 150 to 275 MILES on a full tank depending on condition , and I doubt you can travel for that long on it in Ec so it’s a rub on the chin when ur thinking about the “realism” this added 

Edited December 22, 2020 by CalvinKlein

[Yputi]

18 hours ago, DrPathetic said:

I could drive around for 10-20 IRL hours in my vehicle with the old system which is 40-80 hours In-character which I don't think was realistic for the car.

So if I drive 80km/h... does that mean I technically drive 320km/h IC? or 20 OOC? Sometimes you can't really convert such things imo. 
It depends how you see it... You base your point on time. But if you base the same point on distance.... yea... it's not relevant anymore at all.

I am not against the system though. Not at all. In general, everything seems fine (exept the bikes with like over 300 liters of capacity), but if my car now pumps 2+ liters in the air when driving from Paleto parking to Bayview... I, personally, would love to see some adjustment in the consumption honestly. What would be even better is to have it also depend on your speed. Driving faster = consuming more, both making it actually even more realistic and also guide people more in the direction of more realistic driving.

[Dylan Ortiz]

+1, I haven't been able to play until today (Still lag issues), After driving and testing it out, I'm not sure what they were thinking this far from realistic at all.

Below is a video of me driving a round trip from HE in the city to Paleto and back, As you can see if I didn't have VIP I would not of even made the round trip. The drive itself took 7 minutes and 14 seconds, If you were to add that to @DrPathetic Method, it would be 28 minutes and 56 seconds, Or 12 miles IG and OOC before needing to refuel your tank. That would cost you $1,400 for a 7 minute drive, Yes the prices are IG but even at the price before the spike it would still cost you around $800.

The VSTR works out to around 0.12 miles per 1% of fuel with a maximum of 12 miles to one tank of fuel without VIP.

Here below is the cars Fuel mileage IRL 

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=36748

As you can see the car has a average of 321 miles per tank of fuel with 45% highway and 55% city driving, That is 26 times smaller then the 12 miles given IG with this car.

Here is the video below

 

[Kjaer]

I am 100% for the recent gas changes, all vehicles should have different sizes tank

However, the next step is to tweak and make sure each vehicle has a proper KM per Litre fuel efficiency that reflects closely to what its irl counterpart would likely be. This change does not make any sense if we aren't going to set independent KMpL variables for each vehicle. For now we can likely get away with each category using a general KM per L until each vehicle is tweaked. But a vehicle with 14.5 litres at a kmpl of 33km per litre, shouldnt be running out in 40 minutes of IC riding, just doesnt make sense. (The BF400 aka KTM adventure390, if all the claims are true, I myself do not own a BF400)

Edited December 22, 2020 by Kjaer

[CaesarSeizure]

I think that at the current time the goal will be to find the correct scaling for RL into Game, the numbers are there, it is just something to tweak around with. We obviously do not want real world MPG, as that would basically remove refueling due to the scale, but making it that 1 mile IRL is 4-5 miles IG, would be something to look at and balance accordingly.

[Charlotte Valmont]

1 hour ago, Dylan Ortiz said:

+1, I haven't been able to play until today (Still lag issues), After driving and testing it out, I'm not sure what they were thinking this far from realistic at all.

Daaaaamn, Dylan Ortiz coming in like a lawyer.

 

+1