PD, can you please quit the corruption?

[Catstify]

26 minutes ago, padpilot said:

isnt that mixing? 

Did you read what I said? Yes, it's mixing to punish IC for something OOC. 

[Nightranger]

24 minutes ago, Kyle White Raven said:

I can happily go through this with you, but I fear that most of these issues are IC. 

For example, stacking charges. Both PD and SD have very strict rules against stacking charges. In essence, we have charges that can be stacked and make sense (If you shoot three officers you will get x3 Attempted Murder of a Gov. Employee) VS Blanket charges (If you flee from the police you escape then you get into another chase in 30 mins you will get x1 charge of felony evasion not x2, the exception to this is if it's clearly a different situation).

When you talk about people stacking charges I think you mean Officers/Deputies giving you charges like Face Concealment or Possession of a Blade, which aren't charges given out very often. To make this clear, although these charges might be added because the officer or deputy doesn't like you IC'ly, it is important to make clear that this isn't ''stacking'' or even corruption.

If you do a bunch of crimes and you remain calm, show regret and cooperate then law enforcement might go easy on you and forgo a few of these petty charges. However, if IC'ly you are causing issues, resisting and you've committed a serious crime then they might include all possible charges. I wouldn't consider this stacking, but simply giving you charges for crimes you've committed. If any of the charges given are wrongly given , especially in a malicious manor, not only do I agree that is wrong, but I encourage you to IA and forum report it.

The second and final part of my argument relies on consistency. What I mean by this is that it seems like the standard of RP expected from Law Enforcement is x10 that expected from civilians and criminal factions. To an extend I agree with this, I think law enforcement in RP servers should be a staple of roleplay, mainly due to the powers given to us. However, there is a distinction to be made between roleplay standard and IC'ly adapting to IC environments.

A good example of this was your report. In my view, it seemed like a lot of what you complained about was the behaviour of SD and how someone stacked charges. However, I don't think you considered why this was the case. You can not expect as a criminal to want leniency when you interfere in pursuits by following pursuit lines, not pulling over when you see and hear lights and sirens, circling around scenes and blocking police vehicles. If you want PD/SD to have chill traffic stops without 3-4 other units showing up then don't literally immediately talk on the radio as soon as you get pulled over and have your buddies circle the area and park their cars in the middle of the street four meters behind the traffic stop. This might not apply entirely to you, but this is an overall issue brought up.

When you say you want things to improve it has to be a two way street. One that I want to see happen. I think both sides can improve, but this can only come about with a fair conversation and not forum threads that are essentially hit pieces on SD/PD disguised as ''constructive criticism''. 

By stacking charges....
 I was charged with attempted murder on a government official, A part that was deemed invalidRP by an admin, So I shouldn't have been charged for it...
Knife charge - Was added on just because they wanted to keep me in for longer, It had nothing to do with the crime, Wasn't used in any threatening circumstances, Just had it on me.
Assault with a deadly weapon - Apparantly I was consistently ramming officers with my vehicle, which I didn't, But I was charged for it
Armed Robbery - There was no proof I even did this, and there was others wearing the exact same outfits (Until I showed my video on the report)

I can understand the Interfering with justice, felony invasion etc... And let me get this straight, If I do a crime, or anyone does a crime, It's fair game to go to jail, and no ones asking for "Leniency" - But when BS charges are added on, and no allowance to RP charges, and pure denial to even be told your charges, because they know they added some BS charges on, That isn't on! - Again, I do a crime, do the time... But I just listed 4 charges up there, that shouldn't be there - The officer offered to "Compensate" the day after but that was only the fines, what about the 4 hours + I lost due to him abusing this fact? As said in the report, I'd rather deal with people breaking NRP constantly and Low-key metagaming than deal with officers who stack charges, putting you in a position that you can't rp any of it, and can't even play with your friends, all because he had a bad day?

And your response, No offense, Is exactly why people don't trust the IA report process - It is a two way street, and believe me, When I'm in jail I try and RP with the guards (Strip dances when changing etc) just to make it fun - But it's hard to RP with an officer who won't listen to reason, or give you chance to explain why some stuff has been done?

A RL Scenario - Your walking down the street, See an old lady get mugged and a kid knocked over, you intervene and beat the shit out of the guy who done it, He clearly needs to learn some respect, Police turn up and arrest you for assault - You broke the law, But the officers in RL would give you a lesser sentence due to the circumstances, Or let you off - Here, You get charges stacked without being told...
 

[Cyrus Raven]

6 minutes ago, Nightranger said:

By stacking charges....
 I was charged with attempted murder on a government official, A part that was deemed invalidRP by an admin, So I shouldn't have been charged for it...
Knife charge - Was added on just because they wanted to keep me in for longer, It had nothing to do with the crime, Wasn't used in any threatening circumstances, Just had it on me.
Assault with a deadly weapon - Apparantly I was consistently ramming officers with my vehicle, which I didn't, But I was charged for it
Armed Robbery - There was no proof I even did this, and there was others wearing the exact same outfits (Until I showed my video on the report)

I can understand the Interfering with justice, felony invasion etc... And let me get this straight, If I do a crime, or anyone does a crime, It's fair game to go to jail, and no ones asking for "Leniency" - But when BS charges are added on, and no allowance to RP charges, and pure denial to even be told your charges, because they know they added some BS charges on, That isn't on! - Again, I do a crime, do the time... But I just listed 4 charges up there, that shouldn't be there - The officer offered to "Compensate" the day after but that was only the fines, what about the 4 hours + I lost due to him abusing this fact? As said in the report, I'd rather deal with people breaking NRP constantly and Low-key metagaming than deal with officers who stack charges, putting you in a position that you can't rp any of it, and can't even play with your friends, all because he had a bad day?

And your response, No offense, Is exactly why people don't trust the IA report process - It is a two way street, and believe me, When I'm in jail I try and RP with the guards (Strip dances when changing etc) just to make it fun - But it's hard to RP with an officer who won't listen to reason, or give you chance to explain why some stuff has been done?

A RL Scenario - Your walking down the street, See an old lady get mugged and a kid knocked over, you intervene and beat the shit out of the guy who done it, He clearly needs to learn some respect, Police turn up and arrest you for assault - You broke the law, But the officers in RL would give you a lesser sentence due to the circumstances, Or let you off - Here, You get charges stacked without being told...
 

Ok I'll try and tackle these one at a time.

Attempted Murder on a government official - In your case, shouldn't have been added, since the shootout was voided because of NRP, unless there was any other instance where you purposely rammed an officer in such a way that could be constituted as attempted murder (which from what I can see didn't happen). OOC IA and try and get it removed.

Assault with a Deadly Weapon: Assaulting another person with a so-called "deadly weapon" which could include a gun, melee weapon, or a vehicle.

In your case, the moment you blocked any vehicle and caused them to crash into you or you desync ram another officer you are liable for a assault with a deadly weapon charge. On one of the people you reported, it looked like you rammed them, IC'ly this would translate into this charge. Again, OOC IA with your video and try and get it removed.

Knife Charge: Assuming everything you've said is true and you did not at any point RP your knife being longer than 4'' then this charge shouldn't have been applied. OOC IA report and get it removed.

Armed Robbery: IC'ly Officers and Deputies have the power to charge and arrest anyone if they witness them committing a crime. From what I could tell people saw you leaving the area of the robbery and then you proceeded to help your friends who were being chased. All of these factors put together give enough reason for law enforcement to charge you with armed robbery.

 

As for IA, as mentioned in this thread I can not speak for them, in fact what I said above is entirely my own personal views. I have a thread up from a few months ago about a justice system, I think that civilians should be able to bring in a lawyer and RP that if they want. However, as of now the only recourse you have is IA when there is a clear disagreement between the Officer/Deputy and the person being arrested. I take the same approach I do on normal OOC reports, if you want change to happen you have to report it, just make sure you are doing reports where clear violations can be observed and try and leave out the bits you might have included because you were angry or something, this allows IA reports to be completed faster. 

 

[MrSilky]

OOC Punishments in PD are exactly that, OOC. There is no IC element whatsoever.

Example: Suspension for Poor RP standard, OOC toxicity towards other factions, the list goes on. 

Suspending someone OOCly isn't an IC punishment for an OOC action, it's an OOC punishment where the person in question is being blocked from roleplaying with the faction for the set amount of time due to their actions. ICly nothing changes.

@Catstify

[MohammedAli]

Riot outside City Hall!

[Flucifial]

There are definitely issues that need addressing with PD atm from what I'm gathering here.

 

If it really is as bad as being described here, there needs to be some change.

 

+1

[Catstify]

@MrSilky

OOC discharges are a thing so I'm going to have to disagree. Also, the comment was aimed at every faction, not just PD so I apologise if it came off that way but I'm not as familiar with other faction rules so my example is leaning towards PD. 

There seem to be a few faction rules for all factions that ride the grey area line or are blatantly mixing. If it's an OOC punishment then surely there's a better way than Discharging or Suspending people which ultimately is dragging it IC. 

[MrSilky]

1 minute ago, Catstify said:

@MrSilky

OOC discharges are a thing so I'm going to have to disagree. Also, the comment was aimed at every faction, not just PD so I apologise if it came off that way but I'm not as familiar with other faction rules so my example is leaning towards PD. 

There seem to be a few faction rules for all factions that ride the grey area line or are blatantly mixing. If it's an OOC punishment then surely there's a better way than Discharging or Suspending people which ultimately is dragging it IC. 

OOC removals will always be a thing from all factions. Official and non official gangs do it more than you would think. OOC removals are actually more common in gangs than it is in PD. 

[Bala]

4 hours ago, Catstify said:

@GOAT I disagree with you. You have derailed on to the topic of ooc toxicity and defense of Mick whilst also trying to drag gangs down. No one is criticising or attempting to pit PD Vs Crims as this server is so fond of doing. The main issue was PD corruption at high levels. 

I agree with @CallumMontie that PD should implement a rule disallowing high ranking PD members from being corrupt, as LSC and Bayview currently hold those policies. 

My issue with corruption is that instead of keeping as much IC as possible, they give IC punishments for OOC issues. So if someone breaks an OOC PD rule such as ooc toxicity or misrepresenting the faction ooc, they receive an IC punishment as a result. If no one finds out IC or reports it IC then why are the officers receiving IC punishment for it? The same goes for gang rp as well though I'm not as familiar with their rules. In my opinion, there is too much mixing within the current rules for factions when mixing is something that's punishable. Yes, there should be consequences to ooc rule breaks (such as ooc toxicity) but they should not extend IG as much as they do. 

k.

Lieutenant Shadow - not corrupt.
Lieutenant Sanchez - Probably annoying for zetas, but not corrupt.
Lieutenant Adams - not corrupt.
Captain C. Shelby - not corrupt.
Captain Hamilton - not corrupt.
Commander Bacon - not corrupt.
Deputy Chief York - not corrupt.
Deputy Chief Blake - not corrupt.
Assistant Chief Donnelly - likes christmas too much for november, but not corrupt.
Chief Reefer - got punished ONCE for using the sniper, not corrupt.
Commissioner Freeman - not corrupt.
Commissioner Carter - not corrupt.

What i'm trying to get at, is that you didn't see graphite on the roof because it's not there.

Maybe Palmer and Reefer RP was too much for some of you. But the KGB PD is a circle of accountability. I have bosses, those bosses have bosses and those bosses have bosses. Ultimately the PD isn't lead by Reefer, it's lead by Ballin.

The same Ballin that is ultimately responsible for all of us. So if corruption still isn't allowed and those people above are still in their positions, then surely we should trust the person that is responsible for all factions ultimately to decide what is legit and what isn't, no? 

I know i'd be more comfortable taking the word of someone that doesn't have any agenda.

You completely misunderstood my point about other factions. PD is held to a high standard but the factions that WE have to deal with, don't share the same passion for fixing THEIR faction issues that they are come on the forums with about PD. Again, I hold my hands up and say PD needs work, but who from the other factions is doing the same?

I'll gladly sit here reading people criticising my faction, even the cheap shots, because some of the criticism is correct. But I cannot and will not in good faith, agree with anyone that says Reefer is corrupt or the PD is corrupt, because Reefer shot a sniper on a mountain two weeks ago.

Edited November 20, 2019 by GOAT

[djnugget]

 

Tenpenny is the blue print for los santos cops. nuff said

[Bala]

2 minutes ago, djnugget said:

Tenpenny is the blue print for los santos cops. nuff said

Carl Johnson was a criminal.

[MrUntouchable215]

21 minutes ago, GOAT said:

k.

Lieutenant Shadow - not corrupt.
Lieutenant Sanchez - Probably annoying for zetas, but not corrupt.
Lieutenant Adams - not corrupt.
Captain C. Shelby - not corrupt.
Captain Hamilton - not corrupt.
Commander Bacon - not corrupt.
Deputy Chief York - not corrupt.
Deputy Chief Blake - not corrupt.
Assistant Chief Donnelly - likes christmas too much for november, but not corrupt.
Chief Reefer - got punished ONCE for using the sniper, not corrupt.
Commissioner Freeman - not corrupt.
Commissioner Carter - not corrupt.

What i'm trying to get at, is that you didn't see graphite on the roof because it's not there.

Maybe Palmer and Reefer RP was too much for some of you. But the KGB PD is a circle of accountability. I have bosses, those bosses have bosses and those bosses have bosses. Ultimately the PD isn't lead by Reefer, it's lead by Ballin.

The same Ballin that is ultimately responsible for all of us. So if corruption still isn't allowed and those people above are still in their positions, then surely we should trust the person that is responsible for all factions ultimately to decide what is legit and what isn't, no? 

I know i'd be more comfortable taking the word of someone that doesn't have any agenda.

You completely misunderstood my point about other factions. PD is held to a high standard but the factions that WE have to deal with, don't share the same passion for fixing THEIR faction issues that they are come on the forums with about PD. Again, I hold my hands up and say PD needs work, but who from the other factions is doing the same?

I'll gladly sit here reading people criticising my faction, even the cheap shots, because some of the criticism is correct. But I cannot and will not in good faith, agree with anyone that says Reefer is corrupt or the PD is corrupt, because Reefer shot a sniper on a mountain two weeks ago.

Yo my man, I just want to touch on how you said reefer isn't corrupt? He dragged me up to a mountain with palmer to execute me after I called an officer a bitch? That' by definition corrupt. It's also corrupt to watch your corrupt detective (Palmer) do anything he desires in the passenger of your vehicle? I explained this all in my starting post and as I said, I could provide evidence if needed. If that isn't corrupt, what the hell is? 

Edited November 20, 2019 by MrUntouchable215

[Catstify]

@GOAT I have no agenda at all. I really didn't need a list of people who were corrupt and who weren't because I honestly have no need for it. You missed my entire point. 

 

I'm not arguing for one side or the other but my only example is PD since I was never a member of a gang for very long so I'm not familiar with their rules as I am with PDs. As I said to Phillipe, my argument applies to the entirety of ECRP and my intent was not to make it look like I was targeting one faction. 

 

My entire point is there should be more things dealt with IC as opposed to OOC and I've always said that, even before the kick. I have argued with PD side and Crim side when the dumb OOC arguments kick off. I'm not on one side or the other at all. I'm arguing for fair, balance and fun roleplay. 

Edited November 20, 2019 by Catstify
Forgot a line oops.

[MrUntouchable215]

This is going to come off real toxic but that's not my intention at all, on God but these are the ones I've found, so ignore the memey portion of it. I'm fully prepared to be cussed out and told I have downs and that I should whip and naenae myself back to Africa

 

Palmer very recently:

 

Dishonorable discharge, reinstated, Dishonorable discharged, reinstated.

[SamuelGunn]

2 hours ago, MrSilky said:

OOC Punishments in PD are exactly that, OOC. There is no IC element whatsoever.

Example: Suspension for Poor RP standard, OOC toxicity towards other factions, the list goes on. 

Suspending someone OOCly isn't an IC punishment for an OOC action, it's an OOC punishment where the person in question is being blocked from roleplaying with the faction for the set amount of time due to their actions. ICly nothing changes.

@Catstify

I respect you Sanchez, but that's where you're wrong. OOC punishment equal as IC punishment since it's basicly throws you out of the faction forever. In this case I got thrown out for discussing situation that was not in a PD favour. One of the reasons was "hate towards other faction" if you havent even noticed there's people from PD who has quite high rank and bashing others in this discussion for no reason while it's just a discussion that really needs to be adressed in the first place even as we can see most of the people are unhappy about chiefs actions, rather than PD adressing them people are being silenced and insulted and that is the reason why I joined this discussion in the first place while I knew possibility of it backfiring me IC but I wasn't expecting it to actually happen since this was just a DISCUSSION without insulting anyone and I really hoped that PD is reasonable faction. 

Thing is that Everyone takes this game too serious, even now you have high ranks almost insulting other people in this discussion the same high rank police officers are bashing other people ooc on my FTP's and I'm not even joking, that's why PD has no respect from Criminals nor Civilians because PD tries to hide everything from everyone and bend the rules and even now I see high PD command making points that chief only took a sniper rifle and nothing else. Hell no, he was baiting criminals, breaking fear rp, DM'ing and we all know everyone else in that certain situation would have been banned for long time. As I said adress the problem rather than trying to defend it. Looking from IRL side I know everyone fucks up, I fuck up at my work, my co-workers fucks up at work even my boss fucks up we're just human, but we adress the situation to make sure this will never happen again rather than hiding and being defensive about that but in this particular situation PD is just being hypocritial towards Chief actions and are in denial that even something bad was done there.

All in all, this is just a game where PD = Criminals, without one both of sides wont have fun, but I realised that the fun part for both factions is wining a situation not the experience part and that's why we have 4+ hours jail time.

Edited November 20, 2019 by SamuelGunn

[Cyrus Raven]

41 minutes ago, MrUntouchable215 said:

This is going to come off real toxic but that's not my intention at all, on God but these are the ones I've found, so ignore the memey portion of it. I'm fully prepared to be cussed out and told I have downs and that I should whip and naenae myself back to Africa

Palmer:
https://plays.tv/video/5ca137fd8d1a226575/palmer-exe-has-gone-corrupt-?from=user

Palmer: Recently 

Palmer very recently:

 

Dishonorable discharge, reinstated, Dishonorable discharged, reinstated.

Pretty disgusting, especially the second video.

 

Sorry that a few bad apples have given you a bad impression of law enforcement, I wish this wasn't the case.

[Flucifial]

45 minutes ago, MrUntouchable215 said:

This is going to come off real toxic but that's not my intention at all, on God but these are the ones I've found, so ignore the memey portion of it. I'm fully prepared to be cussed out and told I have downs and that I should whip and naenae myself back to Africa

Palmer:
https://plays.tv/video/5ca137fd8d1a226575/palmer-exe-has-gone-corrupt-?from=user

Palmer: Recently 

Palmer very recently:

 

Dishonorable discharge, reinstated, Dishonorable discharged, reinstated.

Not apart of the suggestion but dude you're hilarious lol... not in a bad way.

 

 

[Xoza]

3 hours ago, MohammedAli said:

Riot outside City Hall!

Why? Stop Mixing!

----

1. Just because you don't like something, or something seems a little out of the ordinary for your every day officer, or you feel like you're being oppressed, doesn't mean it's corruption.
2. Charge stacking exists in real life, be glad we cut down on it. There are also a ton of charges you don't get charged for that you could be charged for. I did some research on a single crime committed in the city, simply being involved in the murder of couple officers, you could see 8 hours in jail, and you didn't even have to pull the trigger.

----

14 hours ago, Nightranger said:

1. How about consistently tailing someone and pulling them over every 20 seconds to give them a ticket for going 5km/h over the limit?
2. The lack of RP'ing charges given
3. The lack of telling people their charges
4. The consistency of stacking charges for the sake of it
5. The lack of RP at a traffic stop
6. The current attitude of shoot first, dont ask later...

There is a lot wrong, as the main faction representing the server, the quality of RP is literally zero

1. If you're breaking the law, they can pull you over. 5 over is speeding. While most wouldn't bother, even IRL, it's still a speed LIMIT.
2. No idea what you mean "The lack of RP'ing charges given". I'm not going to get on the MDC and /me 'adds charge <name>" for everything..
3. I have seen this a few times myself. Law enforcement is not required to tell you what you are going to jail for until you're there. We're not going to stand there, in the middle of the street and tell you a story. You're going to be detained, moved then charged which they have the right. Once we get to wherever we're going, then we'll discuss. This gives every player the opportunity to continue roleplay and potentially reduce those charges.
4. Statement 2 from above.
5. Traffic stop RP, really doesn't have a lot of RP potential, please explain where it can be improved.
6. I have never seen a situation where an officer fires first without first having justification to do so. Using a vehicle as a weapon, is justification.

----

True, the Chief made a snap decision to fire at an unknown, potentially dangerous individual in a hostile area. While I may have done things a little different, I don't see it being much different, even in a RL situation.

----

IA reports happen and people do get punished for even the dumbest things. So it goes both ways. Just because you file an IA report and you don't hear anything about it, doesn't mean nothing has happened. IA is internal, in addition they're not going to tell you any further details about it. Unless it falls under OOC corruption or absolute and/or consistent policy violations, you'll never "take an officer's job", in the end, it's usually the officer's fault that they would loose it.

Edited November 20, 2019 by Xoza

[Nightranger]

4 hours ago, Kyle White Raven said:

Ok I'll try and tackle these one at a time.

Attempted Murder on a government official - In your case, shouldn't have been added, since the shootout was voided because of NRP, unless there was any other instance where you purposely rammed an officer in such a way that could be constituted as attempted murder (which from what I can see didn't happen). OOC IA and try and get it removed.

Assault with a Deadly Weapon: Assaulting another person with a so-called "deadly weapon" which could include a gun, melee weapon, or a vehicle.

In your case, the moment you blocked any vehicle and caused them to crash into you or you desync ram another officer you are liable for a assault with a deadly weapon charge. On one of the people you reported, it looked like you rammed them, IC'ly this would translate into this charge. Again, OOC IA with your video and try and get it removed.

Knife Charge: Assuming everything you've said is true and you did not at any point RP your knife being longer than 4'' then this charge shouldn't have been applied. OOC IA report and get it removed.

Armed Robbery: IC'ly Officers and Deputies have the power to charge and arrest anyone if they witness them committing a crime. From what I could tell people saw you leaving the area of the robbery and then you proceeded to help your friends who were being chased. All of these factors put together give enough reason for law enforcement to charge you with armed robbery.

 

As for IA, as mentioned in this thread I can not speak for them, in fact what I said above is entirely my own personal views. I have a thread up from a few months ago about a justice system, I think that civilians should be able to bring in a lawyer and RP that if they want. However, as of now the only recourse you have is IA when there is a clear disagreement between the Officer/Deputy and the person being arrested. I take the same approach I do on normal OOC reports, if you want change to happen you have to report it, just make sure you are doing reports where clear violations can be observed and try and leave out the bits you might have included because you were angry or something, this allows IA reports to be completed faster. 

 

Definately need a Justice system here, With such long jail times, Stacking charges etc... Other servers have it, and it works really well, If anything it brings RP and bridges the gap between PD and Criminals, you would see a lot less hate posts, considering the PG rule states others should be able to RP a response, Criminals are robbed of that the moment they are in cuffs...

I'm aware your not speaking for IA, and nor is this an IA report, but why should I waste my time filling in an IA, when in-game, asking to speak with a higher up over stuff, they are generally antagonising and rude (Only spoke with 2)... From those two interactions alone, and the fact all the officer will get is a "Warning"... I'm not going to get back 8 hours of my life (4 -6 Once charges are dropped), That time is gone, I could have been earning 5k every 15 minutes from the mine, that's an easy 100k over that time period (Possible not saying I would though)... Or been rp'ing... 

I may or may not get those charges dropped, and honestly I mean no offense, Your own take on that is biased, your looking at what I did wrong, not what the officer did wrong, then swinging it around to effectively say "Shit happens, you were involved"... Seeing someone leave a scene of a crime doesn't mean they were involved. And considering the guy they chased from the situation was arrested, from the same crime, he literally got evading that was it... 45 minutes in jail, My passenger got 15 minutes... Me, I got 8 hours....
That's why i'm pissed, that's why I know they stacked charges, and all PD will do, Is just blow it off...

Charge stacking needs to be a rule, or they need to incorporate a justice system - One bad day for an officer, could ruin 10 peoples experience here.
Same for other factions, except they can't "Jail" someone for multiple hours, They can't trace phones, they have to work and RP situations, PD just roll up, expect to put you in cuffs, and cart you to jail for a long ass time....

That is the fine line as to why people have not got much respect for PD these days, and why they expect RP to be 10x better than everyone else, every server, the police are the front of the server and should act / behave like so

[Nightranger]

4 minutes ago, Xoza said:

1. Charge stacking exists in real life, be glad we cut down on it. There are also a ton of charges you don't get charged for that you could be charged for. I did some research on a single crime committed in the city, simply being involved in the murder of couple officers, you could see 8 hours in jail, and you didn't even have to pull the trigger.

----

1. If you're breaking the law, they can pull you over. 5 over is speeding. While most wouldn't bother, even IRL, it's still a speed LIMIT.
2. No idea what you mean "The lack of RP'ing charges given". I'm not going to get on the MDC and /me 'adds charge <name>" for everything..
3. I have seen this a few times myself. Law enforcement is not required to tell you what you are going to jail for until your there. We're not going to stand there, in the middle of the street and tell you a story. You're going to be detained, moved then charged which they have the right. Once we get to wherever we're going, then we'll discuss. This gives every player the opportunity to continue roleplay and potentially reduce those charges.
4. Statement 2 from above.
5. Traffic stop RP, really doesn't have a lot of RP potential, please explain where it can be improved.
6. I have never seen a situation where an officer fires first without first having justification to do so. Using a vehicle as a weapon, is justification.

----

True, the Chief made a snap decision to fire at an unknown, potentially dangerous individual in a hostile area. While I may have done things a little different, I don't see it being much different, even in a RL situation.

----

IA reports happen and people do get punished for even the dumbest things. So it goes both ways. Just because you file an IA report and you don't hear anything about it, doesn't mean nothing has happened. IA is internal, in addition they're not going to tell you any further details about it. Unless it falls under OOC corruption or absolute and/or consistent policy violations, you'll never "take an officer's job", in the end, it's usually the officer's fault that they would loose it.

I got 8 hours for interfering with a chase... Here you are saying 8 hours is only possible for murdering a couple of officers...

1, Granted it's against the law, end of, but being tailed for 20 minutes and pulled over every time, that is just short of harrassment, you ticketed me once, go solve some real crimes?

2,4, 5 I was pulled over, not told why, all I got was license? - Heres your ticket...

3, So your not required to tell me what I am going jail for? Untill I am in jail? Like no officer ever has took me to jail then gave me a chance to rp the charges... So that contradicts you there

6, Was used loosely as a metaphor, I'll dumb it down... PD rarely ever ever want to give anyone a chance to RP there crimes or charges, Just outright cuffs/jail with a couple /me's /do's thrown in there aka (Shoot first not ask questions later)

In regards to IA reports, there's enough ex PD around that tells people IA is just basically ignored and at most you get a slap on the wrist... It's a complete waste of time, regardless if an officer loses his job or not, and some of it is criminal, but not followed up on, I havent yet seen an officer sent to prison for corruptness while on-duty...

[Cyrus Raven]

7 minutes ago, Nightranger said:

Definately need a Justice system here, With such long jail times, Stacking charges etc... Other servers have it, and it works really well, If anything it brings RP and bridges the gap between PD and Criminals, you would see a lot less hate posts, considering the PG rule states others should be able to RP a response, Criminals are robbed of that the moment they are in cuffs...

I'm aware your not speaking for IA, and nor is this an IA report, but why should I waste my time filling in an IA, when in-game, asking to speak with a higher up over stuff, they are generally antagonising and rude (Only spoke with 2)... From those two interactions alone, and the fact all the officer will get is a "Warning"... I'm not going to get back 8 hours of my life (4 -6 Once charges are dropped), That time is gone, I could have been earning 5k every 15 minutes from the mine, that's an easy 100k over that time period (Possible not saying I would though)... Or been rp'ing... 

I may or may not get those charges dropped, and honestly I mean no offense, Your own take on that is biased, your looking at what I did wrong, not what the officer did wrong, then swinging it around to effectively say "Shit happens, you were involved"... Seeing someone leave a scene of a crime doesn't mean they were involved. And considering the guy they chased from the situation was arrested, from the same crime, he literally got evading that was it... 45 minutes in jail, My passenger got 15 minutes... Me, I got 8 hours....
That's why i'm pissed, that's why I know they stacked charges, and all PD will do, Is just blow it off...

Charge stacking needs to be a rule, or they need to incorporate a justice system - One bad day for an officer, could ruin 10 peoples experience here.
Same for other factions, except they can't "Jail" someone for multiple hours, They can't trace phones, they have to work and RP situations, PD just roll up, expect to put you in cuffs, and cart you to jail for a long ass time....

That is the fine line as to why people have not got much respect for PD these days, and why they expect RP to be 10x better than everyone else, every server, the police are the front of the server and should act / behave like so

I don't mean to come off as confrontational, but I fear you are being bias here.

''I may or may not get those charges dropped, and honestly I mean no offense, Your own take on that is biased, your looking at what I did wrong, not what the officer did wrong, then swinging it around to effectively say "Shit happens, you were involved"...''

I gave you my opinion on the issue, admitting that I personally wouldn't have given you 3/4 charges you mentioned. How this is ''bias'' is beyond me, I explained my reasoning above, if you disagree with it there isn't much I can do for you there.

''That's why i'm pissed, that's why I know they stacked charges, and all PD will do, Is just blow it off...Charge stacking needs to be a rule, or they need to incorporate a justice system - One bad day for an officer, could ruin 10 peoples experience here.''

One thing you don't realize is that 80% of times you go to jail officers/deputies are going easy on you. In other words, you've committed a bunch of crimes and they could technically add a bunch more charges, but they don't. (This isn't with regards to charges that were in my opinion wrongfully added as was your case)

Example: Guy robs a gas station and flees, going off-road, incorrect lane of travel, speeding all while wearing a mask. 

Usually I would give them:

- Felony Evasion
- Armed Robbery
- Unlicensed Pistol

However, in this case I am GOING EASY on them, as I am forgoing other charges which technically should be added, like for example

- Felony Public Endangerment
- Face Concealment Misdemeanour
- Reckless Operation of a road or marine vehicle 
- Unlawful Assembly (if the crime was committed with 2+ people)
- Etc..


Whether or not I add these charges depends on what happens ICly and if I do choose to add them they are in no way stacking charges because guess what, that's what you CHOOSE to do IC'ly, if you don't want the charges play safer and smarter. 

I will refrain from commenting on matters regarding your case in the future, I tried to be charitable, but it is still clear that you are angry about what happened, which I fear is influencing your opinion in an irrational way.

[TheCactus]

2 hours ago, GOAT said:

k.

Lieutenant Shadow - not corrupt.
Lieutenant Sanchez - Probably annoying for zetas, but not corrupt.
Lieutenant Adams - not corrupt.
Captain C. Shelby - not corrupt.
Captain Hamilton - not corrupt.
Commander Bacon - not corrupt.
Deputy Chief York - not corrupt.
Deputy Chief Blake - not corrupt.
Assistant Chief Donnelly - likes christmas too much for november, but not corrupt.
Chief Reefer - got punished ONCE for using the sniper, not corrupt.
Commissioner Freeman - not corrupt.
Commissioner Carter - not corrupt.

What i'm trying to get at, is that you didn't see graphite on the roof because it's not there.

Maybe Palmer and Reefer RP was too much for some of you. But the KGB PD is a circle of accountability. I have bosses, those bosses have bosses and those bosses have bosses. Ultimately the PD isn't lead by Reefer, it's lead by Ballin.

The same Ballin that is ultimately responsible for all of us. So if corruption still isn't allowed and those people above are still in their positions, then surely we should trust the person that is responsible for all factions ultimately to decide what is legit and what isn't, no? 

I know i'd be more comfortable taking the word of someone that doesn't have any agenda.

You completely misunderstood my point about other factions. PD is held to a high standard but the factions that WE have to deal with, don't share the same passion for fixing THEIR faction issues that they are come on the forums with about PD. Again, I hold my hands up and say PD needs work, but who from the other factions is doing the same?

I'll gladly sit here reading people criticising my faction, even the cheap shots, because some of the criticism is correct. But I cannot and will not in good faith, agree with anyone that says Reefer is corrupt or the PD is corrupt, because Reefer shot a sniper on a mountain two weeks ago.

The graphite quote and Donnelly Love you

[Xoza]

11 minutes ago, Nightranger said:

I got 8 hours for interfering with a chase... Here you are saying 8 hours is only possible for murdering a couple of officers...

1, Granted it's against the law, end of, but being tailed for 20 minutes and pulled over every time, that is just short of harrassment, you ticketed me once, go solve some real crimes?

2,4, 5 I was pulled over, not told why, all I got was license? - Heres your ticket...

3, So your not required to tell me what I am going jail for? Untill I am in jail? Like no officer ever has took me to jail then gave me a chance to rp the charges... So that contradicts you there

6, Was used loosely as a metaphor, I'll dumb it down... PD rarely ever ever want to give anyone a chance to RP there crimes or charges, Just outright cuffs/jail with a couple /me's /do's thrown in there aka (Shoot first not ask questions later)

In regards to IA reports, there's enough ex PD around that tells people IA is just basically ignored and at most you get a slap on the wrist... It's a complete waste of time, regardless if an officer loses his job or not, and some of it is criminal, but not followed up on, I havent yet seen an officer sent to prison for corruptness while on-duty...

I'll be honest, I reduced the hours quite a bit to keep it simple and account for a variety of circumstances. The fact you got 8 hours for interfering sounds like you may have had other things added or previous to your situation.

I've not seen that short of RP for a traffic stop, I can see how that's disappointing.

Until you are at the place of which you will be jailed/prisoned, your charges do not need to be read, because they could change. An officer should read you what you're being charged before jail/prisoning you.

Let's keep it simple then and avoid metaphors, because it caused some confusion there. With most officers, if you've committed a crime without reasonable doubt, you don't have much opportunity to argue it, even in a court. There are several ways to argue crimes, and even lie to get out of them (not going to tell you how ) you just have to pursue it. Most officers don't bother because, they either don't have the authority or they have solid evidence. Either way, even arguing it, in a justice system, could often take longer OOCly than just serving the jail time (depending on crime).

The reason you haven't seen an officer be sent to prison for being corrupt, is because its very rare. They would at minimum be discharged and that's depending if it's IC or OOC. Most corruption discharges are OOC. If proven ICly, they can be charged for the crime after the discharge.

----

In the end though, very little of this has to do with claims that a lot of PD is corrupt, even at the command level. It's more about roleplay quality.

[Victor Einhart]

The reason officers are in such a rush to get you off a scene is because if we take the time to have in-depth RP y'all call in the boys to kill us.

Edited November 20, 2019 by Victor Einhart

[Azphelle]

To be honest, the amount of complaining about PD is just coming from criminals that are mad they got caught. 

They want better RP but will not think twice about a few DM, VDM and NONRP punishments for the sake of their own 'RP'. 

"Police aren't doing the jobs the way I want them to" is also what I'm hearing. 

PD are not here as NPC game mechanics, they're people who want to RP and develop their own characters. If they are confronted with a troublesome suspect, they may add extra charges that they weren't going to give. Not made up charges, but ones they were going to let slide but then you piss them off and they add it due to that! 

Gangs get to do whatever they want and PD end up getting judged because they're in a position of power. If you feel they have too much power, then you need to maybe think about real life scenarios and understand how much power REAL police have. Then maybe you'd realise PD aren't actually all that bad. 

Someone got 8 hours for murdering officers plus other charges. What's wrong with that? You MURDERED police officers! Face the consequences. People complaining they want realism only when it suits them. 

If anything, PD on this server need MORE power. Gangs rule literal streets, most laws are broken tenfold over the course of a day etc. If this was IRL there'd be martial law set in place and every officer would be carrying a heavy. 

But noooo "PD are big meanies because they interrupt and ruin my fun crime time by punishing me waaaah".