PD, can you please quit the corruption?

[Bala]

1 hour ago, MrUntouchable215 said:

This is going to come off real toxic but that's not my intention at all, on God but these are the ones I've found, so ignore the memey portion of it. I'm fully prepared to be cussed out and told I have downs and that I should whip and naenae myself back to Africa

I'm not an angel by any means, in fact as far as OOC conduct goes, i'm on very thin ice. But I don't think any cop looks at that video that you posted and thinks that it's acceptable, at all. Even though it's in-character, there's no place for stuff like that in my book. As for his position or place in the faction, it's not my call and selfishly, I just worry about myself and what i'm doing.

On the subject of Reefer, you don't have to worry about Internal Affairs if you report Reefer, because IC and OOC he just answers to Ballin. The concerns raised about IA and how they handle reports isn't present with Reefer. Like any of us, if you submit evidence of wrongdoing and it's legit, then people get punished. Reefer did something that broke an OOC rule and got punished for, I believe by Ballin, OOC. It's pretty simple. 

This might be off topic but indulge me in a Dr. Phil moment.

I can't understand why we don't get the faction leaders of each faction that matters together, in one place and discuss issues OOC, like adults, with the higher administration and how best to resolve them. Instead, we make threads like this or we report each other and we draw the battle lines throughout our factions, every time a situation happens that one side thinks is bullshit.

Lets be honest, no one ever really learns anything from those outcomes and nothing really ever changes, does it? How many of these threads do you see on the forums every week? PD complaining about criminals. Criminals complaining about PD. Criminals complaining about Criminals.

You can't fix every single problem, but we could save a lot of time spent pissed off if we took responsibility and worked together to not only improve faction relations but also the roleplay standard, which frankly across the board isn't good enough. I come on Eclipse to enjoy myself, not to forum report people or feel like i'm wasting my time.

[MrUntouchable215]

3 minutes ago, Azphelle said:

To be honest, the amount of complaining about PD is just coming from criminals that are mad they got caught. 

They want better RP but will not think twice about a few DM, VDM and NONRP punishments for the sake of their own 'RP'. 

"Police aren't doing the jobs the way I want them to" is also what I'm hearing. 

PD are not here as NPC game mechanics, they're people who want to RP and develop their own characters. If they are confronted with a troublesome suspect, they may add extra charges that they weren't going to give. Not made up charges, but ones they were going to let slide but then you piss them off and they add it due to that! 

Gangs get to do whatever they want and PD end up getting judged because they're in a position of power. If you feel they have too much power, then you need to maybe think about real life scenarios and understand how much power REAL police have. Then maybe you'd realise PD aren't actually all that bad. 

Someone got 8 hours for murdering officers plus other charges. What's wrong with that? You MURDERED police officers! Face the consequences. People complaining they want realism only when it suits them. 

If anything, PD on this server need MORE power. Gangs rule literal streets, most laws are broken tenfold over the course of a day etc. If this was IRL there'd be martial law set in place and every officer would be carrying a heavy. 

But noooo "PD are big meanies because they interrupt and ruin my fun crime time by punishing me waaaah". 

What crawled up your ass and died? The original post stated that both Crim and Government factions have their issues and that still rings to be true. The only thing this post is aimed at is less corruption and more black and white and I genuinely don't see an issue with that. I'm sure people are upset that they got caught but that is not the purpose of this discussion and if you want to be hyper aggressive, especially with that last sentence, you're proving our point. I know criminals have issues, I'm aware of some of the major rule breaks and I'm aware some things can be seen as nonRP, no one is debating or excusing that in any type of way, shape or form. I have zero issues with being caught and I mean shit, most of the time I turn myself in when I'm wanted. PD doesn't need more power, it needs more organization and actual police work. I've seen video after video with you guys running around like vermin while in a shootout, getting exterminated. Focus less time on corruption and more time on being a unified entity.

[MrUntouchable215]

11 minutes ago, GOAT said:

I'm not an angel by any means, in fact as far as OOC conduct goes, i'm on very thin ice. But I don't think any cop looks at that video that you posted and thinks that it's acceptable, at all. Even though it's in-character, there's no place for stuff like that in my book. As for his position or place in the faction, it's not my call and selfishly, I just worry about myself and what i'm doing.

On the subject of Reefer, you don't have to worry about Internal Affairs if you report Reefer, because IC and OOC he just answers to Ballin. The concerns raised about IA and how they handle reports isn't present with Reefer. Like any of us, if you submit evidence of wrongdoing and it's legit, then people get punished. Reefer did something that broke an OOC rule and got punished for, I believe by Ballin, OOC. It's pretty simple. 

This might be off topic but indulge me in a Dr. Phil moment.

I can't understand why we don't get the faction leaders of each faction that matters together, in one place and discuss issues OOC, like adults, with the higher administration and how best to resolve them. Instead, we make threads like this or we report each other and we draw the battle lines throughout our factions, every time a situation happens that one side thinks is bullshit.

Lets be honest, no one ever really learns anything from those outcomes and nothing really ever changes, does it? How many of these threads do you see on the forums every week? PD complaining about criminals. Criminals complaining about PD. Criminals complaining about Criminals.

You can't fix every single problem, but we could save a lot of time spent pissed off if we took responsibility and worked together to not only improve faction relations but also the roleplay standard, which frankly across the board isn't good enough. I come on Eclipse to enjoy myself, not to forum report people or feel like i'm wasting my time.

I'm so sorry for the double post but my guy, I'm with you on that. Jay and I have personally went to PD and met with high command to discuss issues. Time and time again we've done this. I make these forum posts because while those meetings are awesome and usually comes to some great conclusions, it usually doesn't last long. If anyone remembers from way back when Zetas was first formed, I'm sure you remember when Zetas used to bomb on cops 24/7, all day and how we even got skipped for official because of it and after meeting with PD and discussing issues, we completely stopped doing what we were doing and had a major cease fire for quite a long time. It was at that time that PD mass recruited, started bringing people to DOC using helicopters and got completely beefed up and when that happened, PD decided to go ape shit on everyone. Suppression checks, corruption, swat patrolling, etc. People from our side are ALWAYS down to have a sit down and talk about this shit, even OOC. The hardest part is getting your high command to actually have that meeting. I know this because we've tried many times.

Edited November 20, 2019 by MrUntouchable215

[Azphelle]

My digs were only towards the countless masses of people I see on the forums and have dealt with ICly. 

The rants about the time they get, the no RP, the corruption. I did a traffic stop as I caught someone going 120, have them the appropriate ticket and have CORRUPTION shouted at me both ICly and in /b. 

Another time, mostly when asking an individual or two to remove their masks at a CRIME SCENE or another traffic stop, they pause RP to yell at me in /b about how corrupt PD is because we target masked individuals even if they're "doing nothing". 

Throwing around the word 'corruption' is getting incredibly overused and is becoming commonplace in arrests when people get pissed. They don't like that they have to legally remove their mask and identify themselves, CORRUPTION! They get charged for exactly what they did wrong, CORRUPTION! They get pulled over because their car was identified from a BOLO, CORRUPTION AND METAGAMING!

Police have to tread on thin ice when dealing with anybody now. Why isn't there enough RP during arrests, traffic stops etc? Because they turn into /b debates about different penal codes and how cops are corrupt and constantly profiling and picking on 'innocent' civilians. PD WANT to RP these scenarios but with 9 times out of 10 the person being detained has already radioed in their mates to come and kill us, with hands up I may add,they just want to get out of there. 

So yeah, my response can be seen as quite childish but once you understand what PD have to deal with every day, maybe you'd understand why! 

[MrUntouchable215]

2 minutes ago, Azphelle said:

My digs were only towards the countless masses of people I see on the forums and have dealt with ICly. 

The rants about the time they get, the no RP, the corruption. I did a traffic stop as I caught someone going 120, have them the appropriate ticket and have CORRUPTION shouted at me both ICly and in /b. 

Another time, mostly when asking an individual or two to remove their masks at a CRIME SCENE or another traffic stop, they pause RP to yell at me in /b about how corrupt PD is because we target masked individuals even if they're "doing nothing". 

Throwing around the word 'corruption' is getting incredibly overused and is becoming commonplace in arrests when people get pissed. They don't like that they have to legally remove their mask and identify themselves, CORRUPTION! They get charged for exactly what they did wrong, CORRUPTION! They get pulled over because their car was identified from a BOLO, CORRUPTION AND METAGAMING!

Police have to tread on thin ice when dealing with anybody now. Why isn't there enough RP during arrests, traffic stops etc? Because they turn into /b debates about different penal codes and how cops are corrupt and constantly profiling and picking on 'innocent' civilians. PD WANT to RP these scenarios but with 9 times out of 10 the person being detained has already radioed in their mates to come and kill us, with hands up I may add,they just want to get out of there. 

So yeah, my response can be seen as quite childish but once you understand what PD have to deal with every day, maybe you'd understand why! 

I'm sorry but just because you deal with idiots daily, doesn't give you the excuse at all. Criminals have to deal with being reported or threatened to report after every single shootout we ever have. The same thing goes both ways. Just because you deal with some questionable people, doesn't give you the excuse to not look at your own issues and address them. I'm not asking for the highest level of RP, I'm asking for reasonable and less corrupted police work. The by the book, by the law stereotype. We don't have a court system, so by nature you have to be an upstanding person to make on the spot decisions about how long someone spends in prison and it isn't reasonable to ask for better or even more RP during those situations. I think detaining someone, bringing them to mission row and RPing there is great RP for starters. If you want to do more RP and avoid shootouts, work on properly reinforcing situations and dragging the RP to another location. There are plenty of options available to you. Majority of the time, police sit around at the same scene for ages, allowing themselves to get set up on and smoked like a philly blunt. If you know a situation is about to get hairy, get the fuck out of the situation.

[Azphelle]

By the book, by the law. 

You want NPC's with no personality. 

You want to see change in PD to suit you. Most of what you have already stated is in the end, complaining about PD not doing their job the way you want them to. Then throwing the word corruption around as a blanket statement. 

How officers RP is up to them, whether it is good or bad.  They are not just there as mild thorn in the side to criminals shenanigans. They owe criminals, gangs and their affiliates nothing. 

Both sides have seen corruption and it has made for some extremely interesting RP.  

ICly PD are sick of the same old shit,  OOCly a lot are sick of it too regarding gang stuff. They get reported if they do their job, they get reported for corruption if they don't. 

Holding PD at a higher standard of RP when most criminals can't tell the difference between IC and OOC, is wrong. PD are not meant to be the leading faction for ECRP, they should be held at the same level as everyone else. Which means WE want more RP and better quality from gangs and crims instead of the boring same old of getting shot at because someone radios in their gang with their hands up and 2 officers get gunned down by 5 people with heavies. 

"PD OP PLIS NERF" 

Let's talk about heavy weapons import then shall we? 

[Sineye]

Coming from someone with an outside view on all this that hasn't really been a part of either side actively here is my opinion and what I think I see and it is just that, opinion. It seems to me there are some things that definitely do need to be addressed as behavior that is not appropriate for people in those roles. Based on the videos given that type of behavior in my opinion would be unacceptable and if some reports like the chief taking someone to chilliad to execute them is true I say why is he chief. Police are not judge jury and executioner and for a chief to be acting this way is unacceptable. I also have seen personally a multitude of times criminals complaining ooc about lawfull orders to identify or taking of masks. If you really are familiar enough with the penal code and server rules you would not complain about it at all let alone in ooc during a situation.

As for using invalid corruption complaints as a crutch to potential change the topic or illegitimatize real complaints. Whether it is the true intention or not  feel that is happening all the same. When discussing specific actions of a specific person is not the time to discuss all these false reports as a distractor. If you are confident in your team as you appear to be, request or provide proof and address the issue instead of what appears to the outside as dodging the issue.

I feel like there should honestly be zero place on this server for people like Palmer that seem to so blatantly ignore rules of engagement and no place for people that show so blatant ad disrespectful racism to be part of a team that is suppose to protect this city. I also feel there shouldn't be a place for ooc complaining that cop are corrupt in a situation. That is not the time or the place.

I do agree some things appear to need change on both sides as clearly occ in a rp situation is not the proper time or place, as there is IA for that, and some acts by cops do need addressed. I hope that both sides can own up to and see those issues and in turn both sides compromise to find a solution that will only make the server more enjoyable for both parties.

[Lewis]

Hey guys! I've been following this thread for a while, and I think we can end it here. First of all, as Head of Legal Factions, I've not received any messages of valid concerns that leadership isn't working in a faction. It's not healthy as a community to point fingers at one faction, when in reality, the burden of improving the general quality of life isn't one faction's alone. Both sides have valid concerns and outstanding issues, and as a community, we should work towards fixing them together. So instead of picking up pitchforks and starting threads such as these, you should make attempts to hold constructive conversations with leadership of the faction and/or Legal Faction Management. 

Do keep in mind that a lot regulations and procedures that is being thrown around in the community is created and enforced by PD/SD/MD etc. themselves. 

Contact Details:

• Lewis#9962
• Archaeah#6920

Thank you all!
- Lewis