Bank 'roleplay'

[kenichis]

Changes need to be made about the Bank being used as a place for people to hang out, it just doesn't make sense.

Quite recently I tried getting in contact with a pretty big sized gang. I saw one of their members on the street and asked to speak to their leader etc. the usual questions. When he hit the leader up I was expecting for us to meet at their neighborhood or maybe Strawberry where it makes sense for african-american gangs to convene at, seeing as story wise its a low income neighborhood and even has a drug drop off to symbolize it. Instead, they wanted me to meet at the Bank.

Its quite baffling that a known gang would go about recruiting people, in a Bank, just because its a NCZ and everyone is always there. Some changes should be made to stop people from just hanging out, trying to sell 'water pistols', doing borderline NRP like jumping on top of peoples cars and injuring themselves while jumping around using a BMX at Bank.

When was the last time you saw someone jumping on top of peoples cars with a bike and gang members talking about recruitment and gun sales at a Bank. This isn't a branch we're about, its the bank in a downtown area. If a NCZ is supposed to symbolize a heavily guarded area I doubt these people would be allowed to assemble and do these things at a bank.

I think a good solution should be to add a new NCZ where it makes sense for people to hang out at, make new rules that combats these type of behaviour in 'heavily guarded areas' and actually enforce it.

Keep in mind I'm not personally attacking any gangs or people(s) that do these things. The gang I talked about earlier has one of the best gang RPs imo so its not that I don't think they're good roleplayers its just that the Bank is just such a common meetup point people think its normal to convene at one. Cheers.

[SaltyPython]

Not to offend anyone, but I think it's just that people are not actually inclined to RP, rather just prevent being robbed and win as much as possible. 

As far as I've been a part of this server, I've noticed that people just tend to not roleplay as much as they should. I think the fact this is a voice RP server is a big reason why a lot of the server population is less inclined to RP more realistically. And unfortunately, the scripted stuff that is in-game seems to promote this non-RP ruleplay/"gotta win every scenario" mentality, as well as the server rules. I've fallen prey to this kind of mentality here as well, being a seasoned SAMP veteran. 

Bottom line is, people don't wanna be robbed or engaged in the same old "hands hands hands" roleplay over and damn over.

There needs to be a serious revamp of multiple things to address your points. Adding another NCZ would not get to the root of the problem imo.

[kenichis]

2 hours ago, SaltyPython said:

Not to offend anyone, but I think it's just that people are not actually inclined to RP, rather just prevent being robbed and win as much as possible. 

As far as I've been a part of this server, I've noticed that people just tend to not roleplay as much as they should. I think the fact this is a voice RP server is a big reason why a lot of the server population is less inclined to RP more realistically. And unfortunately, the scripted stuff that is in-game seems to promote this non-RP ruleplay/"gotta win every scenario" mentality, as well as the server rules. I've fallen prey to this kind of mentality here as well, being a seasoned SAMP veteran. 

Bottom line is, people don't wanna be robbed or engaged in the same old "hands hands hands" roleplay over and damn over.

There needs to be a serious revamp of multiple things to address your points. Adding another NCZ would not get to the root of the problem imo.

While I was banned I tried roleplaying on other servers besides Eclipse because Eclipse was my 1st RP server. I noticed that there was an unfamiliar rule in some other servers that we cannot 'chain rob' someone. By chain robbing it basically means we cannot spam "hands hands" to every person we see and take their things. There is a limit to how much value one can rob and if one is to do chain robberies they must show excellent roleplay otherwise might be warned or later punished.

Seeing as you think the cause of this problem is people too afraid to leave Bank because they will get robbed then maybe stopping people from conducting very low RP robberies can be another plausible solution. While the some people might not agree with the rule it should be effective in stopping people from just robbing anyone they see and only shouting "hands." It should also promote civilian roleplay since the only thing 'civilians' really do right now are stand outside the Bank unless they have a job like LSC or DCC.

[Bala]

I think OP that you are expecting for things to be different, or perhaps more realistic. I've not long been involved with criminal role-play myself but I had the same kind of expectations, that factions would act a certain way and it took some getting used to. 

We have a criminal system in this server where almost every criminal faction does things that would finish them in real life. I'm going to choose my words carefully here because I don't want to insult someone by accident but they hang in the same places, have their criminal discussions out in the open, they don't actively try to avoid law enforcement and they are openly displaying assets that would lead to quick prosecutions in real life.

I don't think that it is much of a surprise that a faction wants to meet you at arguably besides a police department, the worst place to commit a crime on the entire server.

I think it's just something that has developed naturally over time and has become the way things are done, all in all. You just have to kind of figure out the IC rules yourself.

- - - 

As for the Bank itself,

I feel like Bank No-Crime Zone should be restricted to the interior of the bank building. From a realism standpoint, banks don't give a shit what you do outside their premises. I also think that having one of the biggest areas where people meet in the server have restrictions on what role-play can be there is limiting.

No crime zones get abused. People park their vehicles in them, knowing they can't be robbed. People go there to hide from other factions/people because they can't be killed. People also openly discuss and transact criminal deals in those locations as well. The simple fact is that, the no-crime zone at the Bank doesn't work.

If people are dancing on cars, or doing any of the other non roleplay shit that you see there, they should get admin jailed with the quickness and I guarantee people would stop. But unless you report it or an admin sits there, it just continues.

Bank is a total nightmare. As a cop, I try to avoid it because at times, it's like a zoo. Just an excuse for people to scream and shout and non roleplay to shit.

[alexalex303]

6 hours ago, GOAT said:

As for the Bank itself,

I feel like Bank No-Crime Zone should be restricted to the interior of the bank building. From a realism standpoint, banks don't give a shit what you do outside their premises. I also think that having one of the biggest areas where people meet in the server have restrictions on what role-play can be there is limiting.

This is one of the better ideas I have heard to stop the No Crime Zone abuses. Definitively in favor of this.

[Azphelle]

Realistically, people walking around with masks and unlicensed firearms outside a bank would be EXTREMELY suspicious. Because so many people do it, it's considered normal and are shocked when asked to identify by police. NCZ areas should not be seen as safe havens exempt from law enforcement, which I feel many people see it as. "Why are you bothering me? I'm not doing anything!"....you're wearing a mask outside of a Bank, identify yourself so we can confirm there is nothing suspicious going on. 

If people want better role play, they need to start bettering their own and the bank being a meeting point is just not a good place for it. 

[SaltyPython]

35 minutes ago, Azphelle said:

Realistically, people walking around with masks and unlicensed firearms outside a bank would be EXTREMELY suspicious. Because so many people do it, it's considered normal and are shocked when asked to identify by police. NCZ areas should not be seen as safe havens exempt from law enforcement, which I feel many people see it as. "Why are you bothering me? I'm not doing anything!"....you're wearing a mask outside of a Bank, identify yourself so we can confirm there is nothing suspicious going on. 

If people want better role play, they need to start bettering their own and the bank being a meeting point is just not a good place for it. 

While I do agree with you, we have to start considering WHY people aren't bettering their own roleplay to begin with. I feel like the way the server currently is, it breeds roleplayers that really don't roleplay all that much. I think there's some seriously valiant efforts from factions to try to improve the standard, as seen with the Zetas/Triads/Wanted/PD/etc's threads, but most of the time, this roleplay is just for the sake of posting some screenshots on the forums. This isn't the usual; the usual is "hitting up drug labs, rob people there, unless we're allies, then move on."

I think some things that would benefit the server heavily would be:

• A complete revamp of the drugs system. Remove dropoffs, make it so you have to sell to other people in order to profit. Make drugs something desirable that would bring some advantage. Promote interaction.
• Obviously, make drug labs portable rather than static locations. This has been suggested quite a few times.
• Make fancy cars less obtainable, encouraging street gangs to not go around in Comets or whatever.
• Add a judicial system. Already suggested a bunch of times, but it would reduce false arrests, or give people an actual opportunity to fight against their charges in some way.
• Allow gangs to actually attack each other without having to rob each other all the time. If someone comes up to a gang and starts talking shit IRL, you bet your ass they're getting their ass kicked. However here, if you do that, it's DM. You have to start robbing them first, and even then, if they comply with everything, you can't damage them. This makes no damn sense. A rule that would address this would be a cooldown of how many hours your gang/you can interact with the other gang. If you interact with them before this cooldown, rule break. If you barely interact with them before attacking them, rule break. This would prevent repeat attacks, as well as actual random deathmatching.
• Most importantly: REWARD GOOD ROLEPLAY. As it stands, there's no real reason to take the time to roleplay stuff. People have too much to lose currently if they get attacked. Put a limit on how much people can rob from someone, reduce chain robberies, whatever is decided, a new rule NEEDS to be added to address this kind of roleplay. It's the most prevalent roleplay around, and it seriously starts getting old fast.

I realize a lot of what I suggested requires script support. However, the truth is, without a solid script foundation, people aren't encouraged to actually better their roleplay, as they're already being rewarded for their shite roleplay. Change things up!

[Drizzy.]

I don't agree with removing the bank ncz to the inside only. I find that drastic, you can resize it so it's only in the immediate area and interior. Just make the size of the NCZ smaller if it's such a issue and see how it does rather than just remove it from the exterior altogether. 

[Chebbidy]

I was caught by a police officer a few weeks back for (admittedly) running into the bank with a .50 on my waist. Usually this is a regular thing for people to do when they run in and get their salary / deposit money etc. Nonetheless I had a bag on to conceal it but it was well spotted by the officer. 

Fair play to the cop that detained me and removed my firearms from my person, as well as confiscating my mask. Couldn't really argue. I was caught red handed.

Maybe PD have a specific role to play in helping make NCZs better? It doesn't always have to be OOC changes. I agree with what people stated above in regards to players wanting to roleplay.

Imo people standing on cars and behaving irrationally can be seen as breach of the peace. We can probably start there.

[Bala]

@Chebbidy I think PD could take a more active role in policing a high traffic area like the Bank for sure but the no crime zone removes the need for that (or at least it's supposed to) which is why I felt scaling back the bank NCZ to the bank interior itself would be a good idea.

We have a situation at the moment with the Bank and Zetas where you can murder someone on one side of Clinton Avenue and on the other side, you can't even punch them lmao.

[Aldarine]

Personally I would be a big advocate for reducing the size of the bank NCZ to just include the interior and front corner sidewalk where the entrances are as realistically that is where exterior security cameras would be located and visualizing. Honestly speaking however, and I have a feeling this will be met with negativity, my biggest suggestion would be to add another NCZ (preferably a soft NCZ only scriptly enabled during certain hours). A big issue in the server is that there is no place for people to hang out and have civilian rp without having to constantly move their camera around, be cautious of vehicles, etc. The win mentality in the server is so high that it creates this sense of nowhere being "safe" (big hats off to our larger gangs that frown on this mentality and partake in some awesome RP). In real life I walk places, chat outside, spend time in the clothing store, etc. but in the server if I walk down one street people are shocked (looking at you @CBullet haha) and people walk into clothing stores with their hands raised to let you know they come in peace. I know there was a suggestion a bit ago about the pier becoming a place to hang out and honestly I feel that something like that along with not having the bank NCZ be around the whole entire block, would start to disperse people to different areas and possibly lessen some "monkey see, monkey do" actions at the bank. As stated before I'm well aware that people do not like the idea of another NCZ because of abuse but at the same time something needs to be done to counterbalance the win and rob rob rob mentalities people do unfortunately have.

Overall, give people the ability to disperse and I believe they will. Decrease the size of the NCZ and people will also scatter.

[Xoza]

• If we remove NCZs, people will a abuse it.
• If we increase NCZs, people will a abuse it.
• If we reduce NCZs, people will a abuse it.

It all comes down to quality of role-play. Things like NonRP should be more enforced. I believe there should be a large list of descriptions and setting descriptions for our world. Maybe in a wiki or in game /lookaround or /investigate, command. 

True, police don't police the bank as much because violent crime is minimal due to the NCZ. Unfortunately every time police do increase presence at the bank, people complain about it for some stupid reason. Since police are not committing crimes, they have the ability to perform any of their policing duties in an NCZ.

Edited November 14, 2019 by Xoza

[Azphelle]

2 hours ago, Xoza said:

• True, police don't police the bank as much because violent crime is minimal due to the NCZ. Unfortunately every time police do increase presence at the bank, people complain about it for some stupid reason. Since police are not committing crimes, they have the ability to perform any of their policing duties in an NCZ.

This right here.
Then when police try to as you say, it ends up in OOC insults and unnecessary anger towards officers.  An NCZ isn't a 'pause' button for all roleplayers, it's considered an area where there are cameras to prevent crime from happening.  Realistically, it's not going to prevent all crime all of the time, which is why police presence in a 'camera zone' is important, the same as having security guards.  Standing outside the bank, causing mayhem, jumping on cars, putting down speakers (how are they plugged in? Do they run on batteries?) and using it as an excuse to hang out because 'it's safe' just doesn't make good roleplay.  The law is still the law and when I have people down-rating my roleplay and being offensive in /b just because they got caught and don't like the law, it makes me wonder if zones like the Bank are just a breeding ground for bad habits.

[Xoza]

Hey, I wouldn't mind seeing adaptive NCZ's... would get people to move around more.

Example, Bank Interior is always an NCZ, but exterior is an NCZ only during open hours. On top of that, the doors into the bank are locked/barred during closed hours and the ATMs in the back should be used for large transactions. (would have to think of something to prevent people camping inside)

Other areas could have other things, and temporary benefits, like the pier could be an NCZ between bank closing to midnight or maybe only on Saturdays. Tequilala could be based on occupancy.

This could all get a little too complicated though...

[Rubsmeister]

3 hours ago, GOAT said:

@Chebbidy I think PD could take a more active role in policing a high traffic area like the Bank for sure but the no crime zone removes the need for that (or at least it's supposed to) which is why I felt scaling back the bank NCZ to the bank interior itself would be a good idea.

We have a situation at the moment with the Bank and Zetas where you can murder someone on one side of Clinton Avenue and on the other side, you can't even punch them lmao.

The NCZ shouldn't span to the parking lot, absolutely, the size is enormous and pointless. I would go even further (and a lot of people are going to disagree with me on this, which is fine) and say there shouldn't be any NCZ's at all. As mentioned before, it is like a place where you can freely AFK or be a dickhead without any repercussions. The reason people argue for NCZ's and say they promote RP is because "you wouldn't realistically commit a crime there" because of either armed guards or CCTV. How about instead that deterrent is real rather than fake. Instead, I think in certain areas (Like bank or in PD) it should just be a very bad idea to commit crime. If you're going to rob someone at Mission Row, you're most likely going to get arrested by one of the 10 cops that are there. If you're going to walk around with a gun at the bank, a silent alarm might go off and you'll be arrested. This way people wont go AFK and just do dumb shit in NCZ but at the same time you have to think twice about where you commit a crime. Maybe I want to break someone out of PD. Is that a very bad idea? Yes, absolutely. But don't make it impossible for that reason, just make it impossibly hard. Station cadets outside as guards and not just AFK behind the desk, etc. This way people will also stop hanging out at the bank and make their own communities just like what LSC once was and what the Wanted Gas Station is or the Los Zantos behind bank. Yes these areas are relatively safe but peole still have to watch their back and be mindful of what they say.

[Rubsmeister]

I also like Xoza's idea, another way to make them less static.

[Chrisy]

How am I supposed to get bank thots if theres no one there though? 

[Azphelle]

1 hour ago, Xoza said:

Hey, I wouldn't mind seeing adaptive NCZ's... would get people to move around more.

Example, Bank Interior is always an NCZ, but exterior is an NCZ only during open hours. On top of that, the doors into the bank are locked/barred during closed hours and the ATMs in the back should be used for large transactions. (would have to think of something to prevent people camping inside)

Other areas could have other things, and temporary benefits, like the pier could be an NCZ between bank closing to midnight or maybe only on Saturdays. Tequilala could be based on occupancy.

This could all get a little too complicated though...

I like that.  The NCZ only being applicable during 8am - 11pm(or 10pm, I forgot!).  
The server and the players need an incentive to move on and find RP elsewhere.  There's enough people on the server for RP to be found!

[TonyRizzo]

8 hours ago, Xoza said:

Hey, I wouldn't mind seeing adaptive NCZ's... would get people to move around more.

Example, Bank Interior is always an NCZ, but exterior is an NCZ only during open hours. On top of that, the doors into the bank are locked/barred during closed hours and the ATMs in the back should be used for large transactions. (would have to think of something to prevent people camping inside)

Other areas could have other things, and temporary benefits, like the pier could be an NCZ between bank closing to midnight or maybe only on Saturdays. Tequilala could be based on occupancy.

This could all get a little too complicated though...

+1 to all of this, honestly I'd even just take people moving from the bank to Tequilala, at least hanging out at a bar makes sense

[Bala]

10 hours ago, Xoza said:

Hey, I wouldn't mind seeing adaptive NCZ's... would get people to move around more.

Example, Bank Interior is always an NCZ, but exterior is an NCZ only during open hours. On top of that, the doors into the bank are locked/barred during closed hours and the ATMs in the back should be used for large transactions. (would have to think of something to prevent people camping inside)

Other areas could have other things, and temporary benefits, like the pier could be an NCZ between bank closing to midnight or maybe only on Saturdays. Tequilala could be based on occupancy.

This could all get a little too complicated though...

I don't think barring/locking the doors would be a practical solution but I quite like the idea of no crime zones being adaptive to the time of day, that's a pretty slick idea.

[Skippy]

Make a new job: bank security

Their job is to stand outside and look for anything that might be suspicious they can search you and then call the cops if it is necessary, tell people to take masks off, basically just make more realistic and it gives another job opportunity to the citizens who wants something to do. They would have to go through a process to become a guard like training and all that 

[Drizzy.]

49 minutes ago, HDKSamurai said:

Make a new job: bank security

Their job is to stand outside and look for anything that might be suspicious they can search you and then call the cops if it is necessary, tell people to take masks off, basically just make more realistic and it gives another job opportunity to the citizens who wants something to do. They would have to go through a process to become a guard like training and all that 

Takes away from PD duties -1 

[Skippy]

20 minutes ago, DrizzyDre said:

Takes away from PD duties -1 

Not really, they don’t have the ability to arrest or anything they just alert the police when something illegal is being done

[Freclan]

1 hour ago, HDKSamurai said:

Make a new job: bank security

Their job is to stand outside and look for anything that might be suspicious they can search you and then call the cops if it is necessary, tell people to take masks off, basically just make more realistic and it gives another job opportunity to the citizens who wants something to do. They would have to go through a process to become a guard like training and all that 

I don't think anyone would enjoy doing that

[Skippy]

3 hours ago, Freclan said:

I don't think anyone would enjoy doing that

U never know. Before u played this game did u think anyone would enjoy doing nothing sitting at a bank all day?