Racism

[Steve Atkins]

This is to much. I don’t see how this could be enforced fairly. Start demanding videos of of people’s skin tone to see if they’re allowed to say a certain word? Going to be reports every time someone says something someone else might be offended by? No more gangs allowed to form based on one racial group? All black gangs ok, but all white gangs not? Jesus please no, it’s already a soup sandwich. There is a lot of forum lawyering going on anyway. We don’t need this extra level of bureaucracy. 

 

Edited October 20, 2019 by Steve Atkins

[Cyrus Raven]

6 minutes ago, Steve Atkins said:

This is to much. I don’t see how this could be enforced fairly. Start demanding videos of of people’s skin tone to see if they’re allowed to say a certain word? Going to be reports every time someone says something someone else might be offended by? Jesus please no.  There is a lot of forum lawyering going on anyway. We don’t need this extra level of bureaucracy. 

 

''This is to much. I don’t see how this could be enforced fairly.''

- No use of racial slurs

There you go, a simple rule that isn't hard to enforce.

 

[Steve Atkins]

How would you enforce the new rule? It’s one thing to say there is a new rule. It’s another thing to enforce the rule in a fair and equitable manner. 

Edited October 20, 2019 by Steve Atkins

[Cyrus Raven]

51 minutes ago, GWXCORE said:

Dope. Off to report most of WCA, Triads, and Zetas and a bunch of Rooks too And remember, if you see someone say it you have to report. Not reporting a rule breach gets punished too.

You say that in a sarcastic tone, but you realise that's literally how any rule works right ? You make one and enforce it, pretty simple. If you or your group fails to abide by the rules set out by the server then that is obviously punishable.

 

[alexalex303]

29 minutes ago, Kyle White Raven said:

You say that in a sarcastic tone, but you realise that's literally how any rule works right ? You make one and enforce it, pretty simple. If you or your group fails to abide by the rules set out by the server then that is obviously punishable.

It's very interesting how the person that is in a faction with IC rules against racism doesn't mind OOC rules against racism.

Perhaps you should consider how this rule might affect the rest of the community and their roleplay.

[alexalex303]

20 hours ago, Kyle White Raven said:

You missed the entire point of my analogy. The topic of racism affects a lot of people IRL, whether it's because you are an immigrant or black, etc... Having our players take these serious topics lightly by using these terms in a way that does not enhance RP is essentially a big fuck you to the entire anti-racism movement. 

When you have some random guy yelling nigger at bank or casually using it when it doesn't fit his character this IS NOT separating ''IC and OOC'', it's dumb kids using the leniency this server happily provides on racism and using it to be edgy or just for the sake of saying it. The irresponsible use of these terms is why I would like to see a rule against it.

Same applies for sexism, like that post that got quite a bit of attention a few months ago mentioned. You see players thirsting and OOC'ly asking players using a female model if they are girls IRL, throwing out random insults based solely on the fact that they are women or portraying one. Now you tell me if you seriously think any of these players have an IC reason to do this ? Personally, I think it's quite clear that the answer is no, they see a girl they act like morons and then they keep on going because this community can't be bothered to notice that the privileges they've granted aren't being used for their intended purposes, but as an excuse to abuse it and the exact same thing applies to racism.  

This whole thing where we say that racism and sexual harassment of women is unrealistic is untenable.

Why do we have movements like black lives matter and countless movements against women being treated unfairly if it's not an issue in real-life?

We could say that it happens more in-game, and that might even be true, but I don't believe it's to the degree where its unrealistic.

I don't like how you dismiss certain things out of hand as "not fitting his character", what do you really know about his character? did you read his character story? did you spend time with the character then he randomly shouts the n word?

[Cyrus Raven]

6 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

It's very interesting how the person that is in a faction with IC rules against racism doesn't mind OOC rules against racism.

Perhaps you should consider how this rule might affect the rest of the community and their roleplay.

It wouldn't make a difference, I've RP'ed countless characters from hood gang, to business man to doctor, in no situation did I ever feel like using racial slurs enhanced the role-play.

 

 

4 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

This whole thing where we say that racism and sexual harassment of women is unrealistic is untenable.

Why do we have movements like black lives matter and countless movements against women being treated unfairly if it's not an issue in real-life?

We could say that it happens more in-game, and that might even be true, but I don't believe it's to the degree where its unrealistic.

I don't like how you dismiss certain things out of hand as "not fitting his character", what do you really know about his character? did you read his character story? did you spend time with the character then he randomly shouts the n word?

Well it might be realistic in terms of degree, but how this sexism and racism is portrayed on the server is unrealistic. I acknowledge that these things happen IRL, I just don't think that this server has the roleplay standard to convey these things in a way that makes it clear they are playing a character. In other words, OOC and IC mix and people choose to say these terms out of edginess or just having the freedom to do so as opposed to saying them because it makes RP sense.

I hope you realise this discussion is pointless. If you're point of view is that these things should be said because people choose to say it then there isn't much I can do to convince you. All I wanted to point out is that from a content creator point of view and in comparison to most other RP communities in a multitude of other games they have rules against this and in some cases the RP standard is x10 higher than what we find here. The most comparable situation I can think of is back in the day when I played GMOD and all you would hear is some kids running around yelling Nigger and Faggot, sure you can claim they did it because they were playing a character and they might have even been dressed as gang members, but it's pretty obvious the only reason they said it was to fit a stereotype and to be edgy, not to ''enhance roleplay''.

[alexalex303]

1 minute ago, Kyle White Raven said:

Well it might be realistic in terms of degree, but how this sexism and racism is portrayed on the server is unrealistic. I acknowledge that these things happen IRL, I just don't think that this server has the roleplay standard to convey these things in a way that makes it clear they are playing a character. In other words, OOC and IC mix and people choose to say these terms out of edginess or just having the freedom to do so as opposed to saying them because it makes RP sense.

I hope you realise this discussion is pointless. If you're point of view is that these things should be said because people choose to say it then there isn't much I can do to convince you. All I wanted to point out is that from a content creator point of view and in comparison to most other RP communities in a multitude of other games they have rules against this and in some cases the RP standard is x10 higher than what we find here. The most comparable situation I can think of is back in the day when I played GMOD and all you would hear is some kids running around yelling Nigger and Faggot, sure you can claim they did it because they were playing a character and they might have even been dressed as gang members, but it's pretty obvious the only reason they said it was to fit a stereotype and to be edgy, not to ''enhance roleplay''.

I think that it's mostly some kind of social correctness pressure clouding your view. There are many times in which a couple of dudes will act obviously thirsty towards an attractive girl, and it's the same here. It's more exaggerated because it's the internet, but so is everything else. Realistically in Los Angeles you wouldn't have this many cops shot every day, however cops get shot, and they get shot here, just more exaggerated. There's also plenty of people in real-life that say provocative things for attention, maybe not in a public place like the bank, but definitively over the internet (as in, real internet: twitter and such).

If you just remember that everything on the server is exaggerated compared to real-life, I think you will find that the racism/sexism fits into that quite well.

I don't think discussion is ever pointless, however, I can acknowledge that I'm probably in the minority there and most people would like a quick and easy shut, even if more discussion could bring a better outcome. I don't really see the relevance of your ending paragraph, unless you wish to suggest that making a rule against racism would increase our RP standard 10 times over.

[Cyrus Raven]

23 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

I don't really see the relevance of your ending paragraph, unless you wish to suggest that making a rule against racism would increase our RP standard 10 times over.

I think decreasing the use of racial slurs that in my view are used in a non-RP manner would by proxy increase the quality of RP. However, as I've said before my bigger point was that it isn't needed.

[HongKongBrewey]

Forgive me, I'm new and perhaps my social standing isn't solid enough to be a part of these kinds of discussions yet, but I think the original point wasn't "Should IC racism be allowed?" but "should racism for racism's sake be allowed?"

The OP literally said that he was in jail with somebody who said nothing but the N-word. That doesn't sound like RP, that sounds like typical GTA Online edgy tween behavior. If you're trying to facilitate roleplay and all the other guy says to you is "nigger" over and over I'm sure you can understand why that's unhelpful, they're stonewalling RP.

Contrast that with a gangbanger who tosses the occasional "nigga" into his speech as he argues with the cops, or is shooting the shit with his friends, and that's obviously not a big deal.

Carpet-bombing the issue with "ban racism" is not a great solution to the problem, even if I, admittedly, would prefer it. In the same vein applying the logic of "it's just IC, man." doesn't help either because there's obviously a problem here and that argument only perpetuates it.

Basically, if you can't play a racist character without shutting down RP by chaining off racial slurs and refusing to respond to people who're trying to engage you in a more fun interaction, then you shouldn't be playing a racist character at all and there should be accountability for doing so. 

[Steve Atkins]

10 minutes ago, HongKongBrewey said:

The OP literally said that he was in jail with somebody who said nothing but the N-word. That doesn't sound like RP, that sounds like typical GTA Online edgy tween behavior. If you're trying to facilitate roleplay and all the other guy says to you is "nigger" over and over I'm sure you can understand why that's unhelpful, they're stonewalling RP.

Carpet-bombing the issue with "ban racism" is not a great solution to the problem, even if I, admittedly, would prefer it. In the same vein applying the logic of "it's just IC, man." doesn't help either because there's obviously a problem here and that argument only perpetuates it.

Basically, if you can't play a racist character without shutting down RP by chaining off racial slurs and refusing to respond to people who're trying to engage you in a more fun interaction, then you shouldn't be playing a racist character at all and there should be accountability for doing so. 

Like I asked Kyle earlier (and he hasn’t responded), and now that you have mentioned it (“there should be accountability”) how would you make people accountable? How would these non racist RP rules be enforced? 

 

I dont think you realistcly enforce this evenly across the board. If you’re mature and can handle it, then RP it. 

 

If you get some player who is relentlessly repeating the N word with a hard R, isn’t there already a means to report that person for NRP or Bad RP? Record it report it appropriately.

 

IMO we don’t need more Admin intervention when there are means to resolve issue already. 

Edited October 20, 2019 by Steve Atkins

[HongKongBrewey]

I'm not sure what methods there are to resolve such an issue without some kind of staff intervention. Recording and reporting are obviously things that need to happen, but doesn't that already include staff intervention? I mean, who are the reports going to if not the people that run the place?

The OP posted about it, surely that should be enough for an admin to want to dig deeper and find the guy verbally spamming the N-word to sort it out. I've seen people with "staff" in their titles responding in this thread. 

If that's not how things work here then I apologize, I'm still learning.

[Steve Atkins]

There are rules already governing bad RP or Non RP. It is not reasonable to expect staff to dig through data ( there has to be a plethora of logs and data to dig through to find one specific incident) to find some idiot. 

 

People just need to report players for bad RP and non RP and handle through a process that already exists  

 

Edited October 20, 2019 by Steve Atkins

[CaesarSeizure]

There already is a rule about excessive racial slurs, yet somehow we do not seem to have reports regarding this (or if we do they are very few).

So either people are not reporting it OR the situation is exaggerated in this suggestion thread.

If you feel someone is saying something wrong too much, report it, but a person yelling out "nigger" a few times is not a reason to report that person or to start persecuting every single person. The rules are already in place, and honestly, i think very few people actually sit there yelling racial slurs without any kind of context or RP.

[aXoL]

I don't understand why it is allowed here?! its against the twitch TOS too which makes problem for streamers.

How can N word generate rp!? you can't say that everything that being said here is IC and we should not get offended ooc'ly. so why do people get mad at each other on the ic wars in the forum!? nothing about it is ic in my opinion. Some people just spam the N word and think they are funny or something or tough!@?!@

Just go to the bank and talk to people like 15 minutes, everyone is saying N word with no fear of its mean even if their character is white they don't care and even if they sound like a 10 y/o kid they would say it.

It's embrassing in "my opinion" to have such thing in a community like this. This is not allowed in any other famous and popular server.

some people don't like it at all, there is no point to say it. if you are a black man and new to the server and you just face people who spam the n word over and over you would get offended in my opinion. Its not a fun thing, its not a casual thing. It doesn't generate rp. At least make a rule that only black characters can say these stuff.

Edited October 21, 2019 by aXoL

[Phantas]

Wanna stop someone from saying the n word? Point a gun at them make the demand. If you ain't willing to go to jail over it do you really care?

[Marca]

Did anyone here feel offended by any games Rockstar has made so far? Because honestly, they're one of the few companies that have the balls to stereotype people, use racism, hate speech and I don't know what else in their games. What about movies that feature those things also? I find it funny and amusing, yet I never felt offended. Look at Lamar for example when he calls Franklin "nigga" in about every single sentence he makes. Why? Because that's his character. Same in movies and other games, so why would it be any different here? RP is basically acting, yet actors IRL don't feel offended if racist remarks are made towards them. 

About people saying "but twitch doesn't allow that word", then why are you allowed to stream GTA? I guess Lamar managed to get a lot of people banned from twitch then if that's the case. Also if you're streaming, you can ask people to hold back a bit with certain topics or remove yourself from the RP situation if possible.

As said before, if insults are OOC driven, you can report those people already. But I wonder why would someone buy a game like GTA to begin with, if they'll take such things personal.

[padpilot]

7 minutes ago, Marca said:

Did anyone here feel offended by any games Rockstar has made so far? Because honestly, they're one of the few companies that have the balls to stereotype people, use racism, hate speech and I don't know what else in their games. What about movies that feature those things also? I find it funny and amusing, yet I never felt offended. Look at Lamar for example when he calls Franklin "nigga" in about every single sentence he makes. Why? Because that's his character. Same in movies and other games, so why would it be any different here? RP is basically acting, yet actors IRL don't feel offended if racist remarks are made towards them. 

RP is basically acting , you are correct. However, i think the argument is centered around how many are actually "acting" vs how many are using the RP to just throw insults around, when their character does not need to at that time. 

I think you over-estimate the level and number of players who are actually "acting".

 

[Flucifial]

JUST DEAL WITH IT. 

[Xoza]

+/-1

Hmm, I'm all for freedom of speech, however If it's done with malicious intent, only to be 'offensive' ICly but OOCly as well through overuse and not using it properly in a complete sentence, would it be considered Non-RP or OOC insults? I just don't see it being used 4+ times in a sentence being realistic myself. Even the "F" word and it's rough, slang descriptions can only be used 3 times in a legitimate sentence (RIP George Carlin). 

[ThatOneZoey]

hate to burst everyones bubble but... it already kinda is against the rules.

6. Advertising and Public Chat

It is prohibited to advertise or discuss other GTA V multiplayer communities on any ECLIPSE platform including self created content promoted on ECLIPSE platforms.

All players must be able to communicate in English and IC chat must be English only.

Foreign language in-character must be done as such: “[Language] English Text”

Other languages may be used in private only if everyone who can see has agreed to it.

PLAYERS MAY USE OFFENSIVE LANGUAGE IN IC CHAT FOR ROLEPLAY BUT NOT EXCESSIVELY.

Players must not threaten other players or use offensive language in OOC chat or OOC context.

Global announcements must only contain realistic IC content and must not be offensive IC/OOC.

Global announcements cannot be used to advertise illegal merchandise or activities.

 

If you sincerely believe that its driven by some sort of OOC hatred then do go ahead and make a report and cite this rule.

Though ive never done it myself, and i get called a tranny nearly every day cause i sound like a 13 year old boy with strep throat.

 

Sorry for the 2 month necro but if it wasnt open for discussion then the topic would be archived, and this one really stood out to me because its a suggestion that has already been implemented, as seen above.

Edited January 16, 2020 by ThatOneZoey
Removed bulleted list in the rules for formating and readability.

[eradicati0n]

Big -1.

There are already rules against excessive use of offensive language. Being in an RP environment means people can play whatever character they like, with whatever attitude they like. I've spent almost 240 hours on the server since October, and instances where people are just screaming racial slurs/offensive in clear violation of the rules seem few and far between, even at the hell that is bank.

 

Instances like the one OP mentioned should have been reported for violation of Rule 6. Restricting people from saying certain words or phrases is a slippery slope. All those arguing about "privilege" and such make the topic seem ridiculous. If they're OOC insults or excessive IC offensive language they can be reported, apart from that, all's fair in love and war.

[Martin Tulip]

-1 as an Aussie I will relish the day someone calls me skippy or a bogan. 

 

Repeated hard R as an insult can be a bit much but I'd hope the character it's directed to comes down with the full force of a pistol whip and takes that fools belongings. 

 

Just like the real world actions have consequences so dealing with it IC is the way to go. 

 

In terms of the general server rules if it's unprovoked RP harrasment there's rules to deal with that already. 

 

I.e. Someone's playing a girl there is no RP to suggest they are trans or bi but another character repeatedly calls them that. Even after /do commands showing they are not trans or bi. 

 

I think the same goes with someone being followed all day and insulted with somewhat racist remarks. 

 

I generally don't engage in RP with characters that are not fun to RP with but that's just me. 

[dawpi]

A lot of things are said In-Character and we should keep them In-Character since some of us go an extra mile to become something we are not. Yes, racism might sound disgusting even if it's In-Character, however, I believe it's part of what our character are. I would like to keep everything what's done In-Character to an In-Character level and completely ignore the Out-Of-Character side, unless, the racist behavior is OOCly and that's a different talk.

[Puzzling]

Greetings, this has been added to our rules!

7. IC and OOC Interactions

Usage of ethnic and/or LGBT+ related slurs is considered disgusting roleplay and all parties involved must give prior OOC consent before it can be done.
- In addition, it must make roleplay sense for your character to want to use any racial slurs In Character.
- Racism Out of Character is strictly forbidden and can result in a permanent ban.

 

Locked and Archived.