A new logging off standard.

[Aldarine]

Okay, OP lets take this apart with each point listed in your post since edit.

1. "this was aimed and directed at gang leaders, legal faction leaders and other in authoritive positions, as a way to directly change the culture of the server"

Many who have commented on this post are members of factions, including a High Command member. You think that faction members can change the culture of the server? How do those two things correlate? Faction members have much higher standards of RP yet the culture of the server is very play to win, cops vs robbers, and a load of /do s?. Faction members are a small subset of players in the server and have very minimal impact on server wide behaviors. I completely fail to see how 1 medic, 2 cops, 5 zetas, 3 triads, etc. scattered around the city and logging off out of sight would have ANY form of impact on the culture surrounding the 100+ players actively playing.

2. "Main argument against "hold the right to log off in a timely fashion due to IRL" Please keep in mind that this is a game. Please refrain from making this your counter argument as IRL always comes first,anyone who knows me will say The Rebels understand that well. I ask that you think about the RP change without IRL very obviously taking priority over any video game."

The biggest counterargument to your suggestion is IRL and will always be IRL considering that your suggestion in and of itself is regarding something that crosses the line from in game to irl (logging off). By setting policy in place that dictates under what circumstances/allowed or forbidden locations/etc. we can log out, would inherently be infringing on our ability to cross that line. Nothing should infringe on our ability to exit the game and cross back into the real world (aside from the combat logging rule because that's concerning the aftermath of an active RP scenario).

3. "Just go off duty 10 minutes early, leave work 10 minutes early or anything."

Again, the perfect counter to this has to do with IRL. How many times have you started playing a game and got so consumed in it that you lost track of time? That is something that has happened to so many of us. As a member of LSEMS there have been many shifts where I have answered non-stop calls and next thing I know I'm sitting in my chair yawning uncontrollably and realize it's 2am. At this point all I want to do is end my duty and throw myself in my bed. Having any form of policy in place that dictates the circumstances under which I can log off, yet again, infringes on my ability to do this. Most people can't just "go off duty 10 minutes early" or "prioritize the logging out process more" because they really don't have a set time for when they're getting off. We don't work in designated time shifts - some shifts can be 10 minutes, others can be 10 hours. Also, I highly doubt most people log into the server thinking, "okay, I'm going to RP for 2 hours, no more! my cut off time is 10pm!" Also yes, many people can make it to the parking lot as they have to go because they may have 2 minutes to spare before dinner time and it sure as hell beats the long drive up north (should the person reside in Paleto), getting out of their car, walking up to the front door of their house, and going through a menu to park before logging off.

Personally, I drive home most of the time after I go off duty because I don't live too far from my work but I can't count the number of times I've said bye to somebody, turned a corner/left the hospital/etc. and logged - also let it be known that I'm one of the heaviest roleplayers you will meet on this server so I'm not just a slacker. When I'm done with RP, I'm done and that can be for a multitude of reasons. I find no need to have to get in my car, drive home, risk somebody following me home/waiting at my house and forcing me into more RP by robbing me, all before I want to go for the day/night. When I get offline and for whatever reason is and should always be my decision and nothing should dictate that considering this is a game. The only thing that should ever impact a player's ability to log is already defined in combat logging rules.

I do not understand where you fail to see that this suggestion inherently infringes on the OOC lives of individuals playing this game who are not actively committing IC crimes. You are suggesting something that will blatantly set rules/guidelines/protocols for the circumstances under which faction members can log off. IRL emergencies come up, people lose track of time, people get tired, people don't want to potentially be forced to stay online for extra time (in the event that we get robbed). We are talking about dictating how people who bust their butts in their factions can log out of a game which is honestly ridiculous in my opinion. 

Now, as stated in my first response, bite the bullet and train yourself to ignore the disconnect just as everybody else does. There are so many more things that are immersion breaking than a silly dis/reconnect. 

[Jellay]

Hey @padpilot,

I don't usually react to forum threads but since you adressed 'Faction Leaders' I felt obliged. 
First and foremost I completely try to motivate and promote better and more realistic RP, since this makes RP more fun for everyone involved. In my eyes this should or could be something decided by the players themselves to do, to increase their own RP. I don't personally feel that this is 'terrible' or 'bad' RP but just the reality of gaming in general. Therefore I don't feel that this should be a responsibility of a Faction Leader. Doesn't really feel right to ask my employees to stop working earlier to go home and log out there. Some of my employees just have a character to work at Weazel, and thats the sole purpose of their character. They just log out and log in at Weazel to get on duty, since they like working for Weazel. 

If people would love to enrich their RP, this is defenitely something they could do. Yet, I don't feel that this is a responsibility of Faction Leaders. So -1 for me buddy!

 

Edited September 14, 2019 by Jelle079

[Jasmine]

9 hours ago, padpilot said:

Ok wow. Who ever puts games before IRL that is not what I am suggesting, I am suggesting heads of factions/groups or any collection of people should help to promote a higher standard with regards to logging off. 

 

Nodody is suggesting your ignore your IRL duties, why would you even think that's what I was suggesting. 

 

Very random mate. The fact you made this as your argument against my attempts to highten RP on the server is both annoying and just plain random bro lol

I don't quite get why this is only something required for factions?

And although, like many, I get your point, I think it's a choice of the player to go home to log off.
I rather enjoy RPing bedtime, but I think most normal people would find it a waste of time and rather boring going home just to log off....especially if it means less RP if you have to both start and end at your home, which may be out in Chumash or Paleto.

Yes, I'd like to see people not log off directly in public, but that's a tough one to enforce.

Edited September 14, 2019 by Jasmine

[padpilot]

7 hours ago, Nubbsauce said:

So I drive home all the time and park. But thats cause I don't want my beautiful car to get jacked lol. However... there are times when stuff pops up out of no where and I have to deal with it. That point, I just logout and bite the bullet on the car. 

I think you are in the minority of people who own a home and drive their to park up as a way of logging off. In my experiance the vast dont, i only ask that those who have their members ears nudge their members to take more care and thought into these things. 

[padpilot]

2 hours ago, Jasmine said:

I don't quite get why this is only something required for factions?

And although, like many, I get your point, I think it's a choice of the player to go home to log off.
I rather enjoy RPing bedtime, but I think most normal people would find it a waste of time and rather boring going home just to log off....especially if it means less RP if you have to both start and end at your home, which may be out in Chumash or Paleto.

Yes, I'd like to see people not log off directly in public, but that's a tough one to enforce.

true yeah quite a few people do live out in the stick, fair point. 

and aimed at factions as they are often quite visable ooc and IC, and often those who help to run and operate any faction have the attention of their members, i just ask them to nudge their members to take up such activities and to remember this is an RP server, going home COULD ((COULD, IM NOT FORCING THIS)) be something to do, try out, whatever. this is in now way a direct Rule or Policy in the strictest of terms. 

[CaesarSeizure]

I think the correct thing would be to just not log off in the middle of the street, like any spot that is out of direct sight should be good enough. I do think it is not the best when you log off right in front of someone because it might also cause some weird interactiosn when you do log back in.

Additionally, not everyone has housing. There is a limited amount of housing for an ever increasing population and the fact that house prices just go up and up as people just keep buying and reselling properties is not helping (but that is a whole other issue).

Personally, i just go out of sight and log off, almost all the time you will be in a spot where it will take less than a minute to log off out of sight (lets ignore IRL emergencies as they are rare so should not be something we base anything on), but i just go out of sight and log off. When i come back, im almost always out of sight for people so when i do start doing something im usually just "showing up".

[Yputi]

I mostly just find a spot where no one would see me if I can't drive home. The thing is, making my way home can also initiate RP situations where I don't have the time for, so I prefer logging off somewhere hidden instead of getting in other RP situations where I don't have time for.

Its always good to have faction leaders promote RP, but I think this is something hard to control.

Edited September 16, 2019 by Yputi

[padpilot]

3 hours ago, CaesarSeizure said:

I think the correct thing would be to just not log off in the middle of the street, like any spot that is out of direct sight should be good enough. I do think it is not the best when you log off right in front of someone because it might also cause some weird interactiosn when you do log back in.

Additionally, not everyone has housing. There is a limited amount of housing for an ever increasing population and the fact that house prices just go up and up as people just keep buying and reselling properties is not helping (but that is a whole other issue).

Personally, i just go out of sight and log off, almost all the time you will be in a spot where it will take less than a minute to log off out of sight (lets ignore IRL emergencies as they are rare so should not be something we base anything on), but i just go out of sight and log off. When i come back, im almost always out of sight for people so when i do start doing something im usually just "showing up".

Yeah for sure going out of sight is a lot better and I'm sure it's in the New Player Guides somewhere. I feel like a dick if I log off right in front of other people (of course, not if I have IRL things to do, just in case someone argues that).

[padpilot]

2 hours ago, Yputi said:

I mostly just find a spot where no one would see me if I can't drive home. The thing is, making my way home can also initiate RP situations where I don't have the time for, so I prefer logging off somewhere hidden instead of getting in other RP situations where I don't have time for.

Its always good to have faction leaders promote RP, but I think this is something hard to control.

Just a nudge in the right direction "if I see you constantly logging off in and around LSC then you will be getting a word" - similar to what I say to the Rebels. If I see you logging off all the time at bank or the Zeta store then your going to be getting kicked for lazy RP, of course there are times this is unavoidable, but this should not the standard". 

Cheers for the input mate. 

[Phil McGee]

-1 Personally I go somewhere private enough like an alley or something to log off but if I had an emergency Id log in plain view without even considering it.  If you want to RP going home and getting into your bed then more power to you.

[Yputi]

1 hour ago, padpilot said:

Just a nudge in the right direction "if I see you constantly logging off in and around LSC then you will be getting a word" - similar to what I say to the Rebels. If I see you logging off all the time at bank or the Zeta store then your going to be getting kicked for lazy RP, of course there are times this is unavoidable, but this should not the standard". 

Cheers for the input mate. 

I know, thats why I said what I mostly do, if I have to. I just believe it's hard to decide for others when they can log off. There is also barely any way to keep track of when it was unavoidable or not. 
At the end, everyone is here to RP so people just need to be made aware it's better to drive home if they can imo. Which I pretty much always do.

[CaesarSeizure]

Ye i think it should be a standard we strive for, but not something we should be forcing people to do.

[MrUntouchable215]

My man, if I'm logging out, that means I'm done playing for the night, meaning im exhausted, meaning the last thing on my mind is RPing myself logging out. Half of the time, I do go into a laydown animation before I log but it's not really needed and if something comes up that's important, im hitting the f4 button. I apologize but you have me ****ed all the way up if you think ima drive home, risk police or any other RP interaction when my intention is to quite literally avoid that by logging out lol. I've had situations like that before and I had to straight up tell them "I can't do this right now, I have to go, admin jail me" like naw bro, I'm good on that homie

-1

However, I do agree that some RP situations could be improved but I wouldn't really say this is remotely even a priority. Perhaps I'll post a list of things when I'm not dead inside from the lack of coffee.

Edited September 16, 2019 by MrUntouchable215

[Aldarine]

2 hours ago, padpilot said:

Just a nudge in the right direction "if I see you constantly logging off in and around LSC then you will be getting a word" - similar to what I say to the Rebels. If I see you logging off all the time at bank or the Zeta store then your going to be getting kicked for lazy RP, of course there are times this is unavoidable, but this should not the standard". 

I don't think anybody should be threatened with disciplinary action or removal from a faction that they worked hard to get into over where they log out. Do it to the Rebels all you want - that's your group and your own prerogative. 

[padpilot]

1 hour ago, Yputi said:

I know, thats why I said what I mostly do, if I have to. I just believe it's hard to decide for others when they can log off. There is also barely any way to keep track of when it was unavoidable or not. 
At the end, everyone is here to RP so people just need to be made aware it's better to drive home if they can imo. Which I pretty much always do.

Yeah for sure. I'll should edit my post to now include "better" and the the "policy" in my original suggestion. Like I say, just a bit of a culture change in the way it's done is all 

 

Cheers

[padpilot]

6 minutes ago, Aldarine said:

I don't think anybody should be threatened with disciplinary action or removal from a faction that they worked hard to get into over where they log out. Do it to the Rebels all you want - that's your group and your own prerogative. 

It's not just a point of just logging out , all I'm saying is that people should be encouraged to put a slight bit more effort in if they have the time for it, that's all. 

And ofc I won't be kicking peeps from the rebels just for logging off in a random spot, with the amount of bugs, code 0, frustration, rage quits, general desync and other problems, and as other have pointed out it's a very hard thing to consider enforcing. 

But if they constantly log off right aroundfrom NCZ, leaving car safe and secure, then after a while yeah, I'd be having a word with them. 

 

You have to see, that I don't like leaving cars in no crime zone when I log for instance. If you park it normally somewhere near a house (even if you just RP renting a garage)) then your car may provide RP for others looking to boost cars when you are offline. 

A bit of thought by me, may increase your RP. I think this is more what I'm getting at tbf.

[Aldarine]

8 minutes ago, padpilot said:

It's not just a point of just logging out , all I'm saying is that people should be encouraged to put a slight bit more effort in if they have the time for it, that's all. 

And ofc I won't be kicking peeps from the rebels just for logging off in a random spot, with the amount of bugs, code 0, frustration, rage quits, general desync and other problems, and as other have pointed out it's a very hard thing to consider enforcing. 

But if they constantly log off right aroundfrom NCZ, leaving car safe and secure, then after a while yeah, I'd be having a word with them. 

 

You have to see, that I don't like leaving cars in no crime zone when I log for instance. If you park it normally somewhere near a house (even if you just RP renting a garage)) then your car may provide RP for others looking to boost cars when you are offline. 

A bit of thought by me, may increase your RP. I think this is more what I'm getting at tbf.

Um... clearing something up... leaving your car in a NCZ does not leave it safe and secure. You risk getting it towed, which happens more often than you may think. Those cars are presently viewed as abandoned vehicles with no pay-to-park ticket and get removed at the owner's expense. This is also RP.

Aside from that... it's up to faction heads/faction management to dictate something like you're suggesting as it is targeted towards a very specific grouping of people who are already heavily monitored. Policies, processes, and guidelines for factions are discussed internally when we see a big issue and sorry but this is definitely not one of them.

Edited September 16, 2019 by Aldarine

[Chebbidy]

This is a crazy idea and will most likely never happen. I see where you're coming from but it's just unnecessary. Realism isn't always fun.

 

And regarding the idea of leaving your car outside NCZs when you log... why would I ever do that?????

Edited September 16, 2019 by Chebbidy

[Levi208]

-1  to this idea in it's current form, despite the fact that I see your point behind it. I just think of all things that could be improved about people's RP, this is like really far down that list.

However, this could be incentivized. Just spitballing here but.. Log off for 5 hours or more into a house that you own? You get a free food/water restore. This is just a basic example but  introducing small menial perks to incentivize RP might be a better solution than to enforce this on people based on principle alone.

[vacant]

-1 dont see why this is such a problem when you rarely see many people logging in anyway, the odd one or two people isnt gonna ruin your day of rping cause they just poofed in/out of existence. The main place you will see people logging in would be parking lot, and I think its obvious why they would be logging in there as opposed to going to their house running risk of getting caught up in a rp situation where they are unable to leave asap and could catch a punishment for combat logging/nrp etc. 

[padpilot]

4 hours ago, Levi208 said:

-1  to this idea in it's current form, despite the fact that I see your point behind it. I just think of all things that could be improved about people's RP, this is like really far down that list.

However, this could be incentivized. Just spitballing here but.. Log off for 5 hours or more into a house that you own? You get a free food/water restore. This is just a basic example but  introducing small menial perks to incentivize RP might be a better solution than to enforce this on people based on principle alone.

neat, yeah agreed something like that may tip the balance maybe. nice input

[padpilot]

On 9/13/2019 at 11:08 PM, Marca said:

This man speaks the truth. If crime wouldn't be so rampant to a point where it's pretty much nonRP, I'd be fine with driving home during the day. OP said that we should get people to escort us, walk with us or stay in lit areas. Having someone walk with you would just result in them being robbed and lets face it, criminals don't care if it's a brightly lit area at night or when it's daytime, you'll get robbed anyway. Not of IC reasons or for RP, but because of the "because I can" mentality. I guess a lot of this happens because there's no feeling that the city is alive. NPC's do a good job in making the city feel alive, but they're also horrible in most cases (also not possible in rage at this time). IRL you wouldn't rob someone if there are like 100 people around you. We can't replicate this in the server, because player count is too low and no NPC's.

That being said, unless more strict rules are added to promote more quality RP and require people to have a proper IC reasons to do things, I can't agree with these suggestions.

yeah this is true to be fair. For my suggestion to be even remotly become a reality many other aspects and levels of RP would have to be dramatically improved. 

 

Also, since making this suggestion i have on 4 seperate occasions , parked my car then waled roughly 1.5 miles, never been robbed. normally takes me around 15 minutes. 

[padpilot]

On 9/13/2019 at 11:50 PM, Aldarine said:

Okay, OP lets take this apart with each point listed in your post since edit.

1. "this was aimed and directed at gang leaders, legal faction leaders and other in authoritive positions, as a way to directly change the culture of the server"

Many who have commented on this post are members of factions, including a High Command member. You think that faction members can change the culture of the server? How do those two things correlate? Faction members have much higher standards of RP yet the culture of the server is very play to win, cops vs robbers, and a load of /do s?. Faction members are a small subset of players in the server and have very minimal impact on server wide behaviors. I completely fail to see how 1 medic, 2 cops, 5 zetas, 3 triads, etc. scattered around the city and logging off out of sight would have ANY form of impact on the culture surrounding the 100+ players actively playing.

2. "Main argument against "hold the right to log off in a timely fashion due to IRL" Please keep in mind that this is a game. Please refrain from making this your counter argument as IRL always comes first,anyone who knows me will say The Rebels understand that well. I ask that you think about the RP change without IRL very obviously taking priority over any video game."

The biggest counterargument to your suggestion is IRL and will always be IRL considering that your suggestion in and of itself is regarding something that crosses the line from in game to irl (logging off). By setting policy in place that dictates under what circumstances/allowed or forbidden locations/etc. we can log out, would inherently be infringing on our ability to cross that line. Nothing should infringe on our ability to exit the game and cross back into the real world (aside from the combat logging rule because that's concerning the aftermath of an active RP scenario).

3. "Just go off duty 10 minutes early, leave work 10 minutes early or anything."

Again, the perfect counter to this has to do with IRL. How many times have you started playing a game and got so consumed in it that you lost track of time? That is something that has happened to so many of us. As a member of LSEMS there have been many shifts where I have answered non-stop calls and next thing I know I'm sitting in my chair yawning uncontrollably and realize it's 2am. At this point all I want to do is end my duty and throw myself in my bed. Having any form of policy in place that dictates the circumstances under which I can log off, yet again, infringes on my ability to do this. Most people can't just "go off duty 10 minutes early" or "prioritize the logging out process more" because they really don't have a set time for when they're getting off. We don't work in designated time shifts - some shifts can be 10 minutes, others can be 10 hours. Also, I highly doubt most people log into the server thinking, "okay, I'm going to RP for 2 hours, no more! my cut off time is 10pm!" Also yes, many people can make it to the parking lot as they have to go because they may have 2 minutes to spare before dinner time and it sure as hell beats the long drive up north (should the person reside in Paleto), getting out of their car, walking up to the front door of their house, and going through a menu to park before logging off.

Personally, I drive home most of the time after I go off duty because I don't live too far from my work but I can't count the number of times I've said bye to somebody, turned a corner/left the hospital/etc. and logged - also let it be known that I'm one of the heaviest roleplayers you will meet on this server so I'm not just a slacker. When I'm done with RP, I'm done and that can be for a multitude of reasons. I find no need to have to get in my car, drive home, risk somebody following me home/waiting at my house and forcing me into more RP by robbing me, all before I want to go for the day/night. When I get offline and for whatever reason is and should always be my decision and nothing should dictate that considering this is a game. The only thing that should ever impact a player's ability to log is already defined in combat logging rules.

I do not understand where you fail to see that this suggestion inherently infringes on the OOC lives of individuals playing this game who are not actively committing IC crimes. You are suggesting something that will blatantly set rules/guidelines/protocols for the circumstances under which faction members can log off. IRL emergencies come up, people lose track of time, people get tired, people don't want to potentially be forced to stay online for extra time (in the event that we get robbed). We are talking about dictating how people who bust their butts in their factions can log out of a game which is honestly ridiculous in my opinion. 

Now, as stated in my first response, bite the bullet and train yourself to ignore the disconnect just as everybody else does. There are so many more things that are immersion breaking than a silly dis/reconnect. 

i really realy do not think you understand my suggestion and i honestly cannot think of any other ways to make myself any more clear without repeating myself. 

[padpilot]

On 9/14/2019 at 2:47 AM, Jelle079 said:

Hey @padpilot,

I don't usually react to forum threads but since you adressed 'Faction Leaders' I felt obliged. 
First and foremost I completely try to motivate and promote better and more realistic RP, since this makes RP more fun for everyone involved. In my eyes this should or could be something decided by the players themselves to do, to increase their own RP. I don't personally feel that this is 'terrible' or 'bad' RP but just the reality of gaming in general. Therefore I don't feel that this should be a responsibility of a Faction Leader. Doesn't really feel right to ask my employees to stop working earlier to go home and log out there. Some of my employees just have a character to work at Weazel, and thats the sole purpose of their character. They just log out and log in at Weazel to get on duty, since they like working for Weazel. 

If people would love to enrich their RP, this is defenitely something they could do. Yet, I don't feel that this is a responsibility of Faction Leaders. So -1 for me buddy!

 

i have no doubt you promote better and more realsitc rp, was some of the reason it was aimed at you. You are right, it should be decided by the players themselves, no one is disbuting that. Ive been gaming for a while so i get where you are coming from, i think my original wording sounded more restrictive than was required. Yeah many people do only work for their faction and nothing else, this of course is aimed at players who are in an RP situation for allowing this however choose not to. I am ofcourse not suggesiong that anyone should focibly change the RP decisons of others. 

yeah, i mean , i tried at least, this suggestion from me is definently wrong as others have pointed out, as this is unlikly to change in the future, i just fear that because it may be viewed as unlikly, many deem this as we should not try. 

 

[Flucifial]

I don't understand why this is necessary, it's a game for RP scenarios... not everyone has time to roleplay going home and going to sleep. If they wanna log off where they want, I don't see why thats an issue.