Archive Please

[Riderz]

Not needed

Edited January 28, 2020 by Tezhl
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[Brixton]

As a Police Officer myself, I would not mind having this, but I also dont mind how it is now. I will support this.

[HaminLord]

Sorry but what randoms traces are you talking about? 

I've never seen anyone "abuse" or "conduct random traces" in the LSPD, there is no benefit to it nor is it allowed. And quite surprisingly, I'm rather inclined to -1 this suggestion, the reason being to it is that RPly San Andreas is a police state, meaning that it wouldn't be that far fetched to imagine the government would have some sort of logs as to who bought what phone with what number. Even with this information, there is nothing I or almost any other member of the LSPD can do, we can text or call you sure, but at the end of the day the only people who can do anything with your number are members of IB, who have their own set protocols and procedures which to what I've heard, are taken seriously and strictly.

On the other hand, I'd be totally down for something such as burner phones and whatnot, ones you could perhaps order through imports or simply buy from certain locations for a higher price than that of a standard phone which would have its own number, one that is not visible on the MDC while searching one's name.

 

[JakeInnit_]

This would be nice, would allow criminals to effectively use burner phones. +1

[smutty]

Tracing a line is not something taken lightly by PD. There is an internal process and certain conditions need to be met before it's even considered. 

With that said, without any previous interaction with PD, I agree, they shouldn't have your number in the MDC. 

[Marca]

I sadly cannot agree with this. First of all, 911 calls display the callers name. While the character may not say their name during a 911 call, it's safe to assume the government in the background does keep track of phone numbers and whom it belongs to. But the biggest and most valuable tool gang members have are the very powerful radios that seem to have infinite range. There are IC ways to establish a secure communication line to keep PD off of you or minimize the chances they can get to you. Heck, there's also a way to use other peoples phone numbers so nothing gets tracked to you at all.

But like it was said before, tracing is very limited and has a lot of regulations. 90% of the PD don't have any use for the phone numbers at all, it only comes in handy when you have to call the person to notify them of something or get more information. I have also never heard of anyone abusing this system either, so I see no reason why such information would be removed from the MDC.

[alexalex303]

You call 911, you call everyone, you use the phone actively, and you want the police to not have access to it? We're roleplaying in the US, not Somalia.

Keep your phone off or risk it. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

[ArcAngel]

+1 I've had multiple occasions where an officer or someone from the DOC has used MDC to obtain my number..

[MohammedAli]

Might as well start suggesting to remove the MDC as a whole at this rate.

-1

You phone the police/medic but not expect us to have contact back.

Turn your phone off if you don't want LSPD tracing it or phoning you. 

[HaminLord]

1 hour ago, SkuLLar said:

+1, police have alot of things they can metagame about, using the MDC either have more strict rules about it or better have the feature removed,

First of all, there already are strict policies and rules regarding this.

Second of all, sure, I have your number, what can I do with it? Text you for that Dukes you put on High-End? If you remove the feature, not only will it affect tracing which happens rarely than you'd expect, but a large part of the LSPD's tasks, including but not limited to finding stolen vehicles and contacting the owner(s), finding stolen firearms and contacting the owners and etcetera.

19 minutes ago, arcangel said:

+1 I've had multiple occasions where an officer or someone from the DOC has used MDC to obtain my number..

If you truly have, file an IA report regarding the number, if its from unkown, you're more than welcome to ask a staff member so you may file an OOC IA report or even a forum report for not conducting faction duties. I find it hard to believe someone would do this without a valid cause, and I'm also sure that if you take action against it by looking for whoever did it and making sure you forward it to his superiors he will be punished accordingly.

[ArcAngel]

Just now, HaminLord said:

If you truly have, file an IA report regarding the number, if its from unkown, you're more than welcome to ask a staff member so you may file an OOC IA report or even a forum report for not conducting faction duties. I find it hard to believe someone would do this without a valid cause, and I'm also sure that if you take action against it by looking for whoever did it and making sure you forward it to his superiors he will be punished accordingly.

This was a while ago on an old character that is now CK'd.
It was a DOC officer who openly admitted to obtaining my number so he could 'ask me on a date'.
As it was a while ago, i don't have proof of this, also, pretty sure it was over VOIP and I dont have shadowplay or anything since my CPU sucks and i dont have much memory.

[MohammedAli]

4 minutes ago, arcangel said:

This was a while ago on an old character that is now CK'd.
It was a DOC officer who openly admitted to obtaining my number so he could 'ask me on a date'.
As it was a while ago, i don't have proof of this, also, pretty sure it was over VOIP and I dont have shadowplay or anything since my CPU sucks and i dont have much memory.

Sounds like someone abusing the resources he has as an Officer.

Also sounds like an IC issue which can be dealt with through an Internal Affairs report.

Don't see why we should remove the feature from MDC because of this.

[Chrisy]

I think this suggestion is good as in certain circumstances phone numbers would not be obtainable. 

But this suggestion would be better and make more sense if we had the option to own more than one phone for example; a burner phone. This way we could have a separate phone strictly for criminal activities, sneaking around whatever you would want the phone for. This would allow phones to be destroyed after one use/job/it gets compromised by PD. 

Yes, there is an option to get a new phone number now but this option will completely wipe your contacts, your number and it creates difficulty to keep in contact with players if you were to delete your phone every couple of days which is where burner phones fall under. 

 

Quote

Might as well start suggesting to remove the MDC as a whole at this rate.

Great idea also, nice to see when suggestions are made which would "disadvantage" PD in the slightest are taken so negatively even though throughout the last year PD have had nothing but benefits due to the increase of civilian RP which in the end hurts criminals to create as it results in negatives towards the criminals. This and another suggestion about searching IDs and you're saying to remove the whole MDC as if they are big changes. IDs have no reason to be searched whatsoever, you either identify the person or don't and miss out or if you and need to carry out detective roleplay you have their ID in which you can make use of the lovely /ldo feature which was recently added. If it carries on throughout a long period of time I'm sure a member of staff within the faction would be more than happy to take two seconds out of their time to search an ID and unix for you guys to continue your roleplay.

Edited September 9, 2019 by Chrisy

[obama]

+1 , people will not need to turn their phone off when they are wanted but they can be traced if they call someone or text him .

Edited September 10, 2019 by obama

[alexalex303]

nevermind.

Edited September 10, 2019 by alexalex303

[Hazel]

Let me shine some light onto tracing, why making us manually keep track of phone is unfeasible and the “traces every 5 seconds” allegation

 

Members of the Investigations Bureau are held to strict regulations when it comes to tracing anyone, gang member or otherwise. Those restrictions rely heavily on us knowing that the phone number belongs to a certain person.

 

As for obtaining phone numbers IC and keeping a database for it, I don’t see it as feasible, because:

• As a Detective, absolutely every single high profile criminal just immediately knows I’m a Detective, even if I’m just patrolling in an unmarked cruiser without a kevlar vest. I get that information circles around, but it’s also random civilians, who know what unmarked cruisers look like on GTA, just yelling “hello Detective” as they run a red light past me.

• We can’t be certain of the truthfulness of numbers obtained from a criminal, which would clash with our internal protocols and we could find a farmer John Doe somewhere instead of Jin Koi or any other criminal we were after, which again, clashes with our regulations.

• The LSPD already has a very large amount of paperwork and things to keep track of. I personally can spend an entire day shifting through paperwork without a single chance of actually playing the game and I’m not in a very high position where the paperwork just piles up more. There are already some non-optional paperwork bits, such as firearm revoke requests, that are forgotten because there’s so much else to keep track of ontop as well. Having to keep track of every phone number and actively updating them with maybe accurate information isn’t realistic from a workload perspective.

 

As for gang members being traced every 5 seconds, like it was mentioned and refered to in an earlier reply, that can only be done by less than five people, it’s not done as often as you think and is actively done by three at most with it’s own set of restrictions and requirements to have been met before it’s even allowed.

 

So no, I don’t think us having phone numbers is unrealistic and should be yeeted out just like that.

 I do believe that something like burner phones, with restrictions such as cost per phone call minute / message or a set amount of prepaid messages before it gets locked could be added, restricted like that mostly to reduce the inevitable abuse and constant overusage.

Edited September 10, 2019 by Hazel

[ruekatu]

-1     

So this is an RP server correct?  Thus we want this to be a real life as possible, and yes I will obviously admit there are such things as burner phones however, everything that you do in real life is monitored, it is logged. Something simple as a phone number is registered to an owner.. in real life you buy a phone, you get a number.. that is your number, they can find that out. because its your number. 

There are only a certain amount of people that can use the tracking, if those certain people are found to have misused it they will get instant bollocking, they would most likely be fired and banned from the server for breaking rules. Yes anyone on PD can get your number and call you but as said that is something they can do in real life anyway, yet it doesn't mean we can track them.. just means that we can call you. and in some cases that helps us. When there is a stolen car, we can call the owner and tell them we have it, or ask if the person thats driving has person.

Now if you had suggested something like blocking part of the number unless obtained through a warrant then that would be something id personally +1.. Yet all i ever see on the suggestions are just things being removed. Not improved.

[Riderz]

Loving some of the suggestion posted, the main point of this thread is to expand how these operations are conducted and benefit both sides, and at least addressing the issue. 

Edited September 10, 2019 by Tezhl

[Xoza]

-1

• That's what radios are for, an untraceable form of communication. You can destroy your phone to remove the number or leave it off. There are plenty that don't use phones at all and always have it off.
• You can essentially 'create' your own burner phone already. Buy Phone > Make Call > Destroy Phone. A company wouldn't sell you a cheap phone, a phone is still a phone.
• Acquiring numbers from MDC is only for official use only and should not be saved.
  • Getting and giving out a number from the MDC without permission is a breach of privacy and anyone involved should face consequences, especially officers.
• Don't need to trace your number to find you, You sport the same colors, drive the same vehicles and wear the same clothing and you make a name for yourself that makes you easy to identify.

 

Thought of some RP reasons it exists how it is.

Crime is well known to be rampant in San Andreas. The government and companies apply restrictions to prevent or reduce illicit use for liability reasons.

• Radio tower repeaters are privately owned, easy to install and unsecured. The state has their own that are secure though for government uses.
• Cell towers are owned and operated by the government and companies.
• Mobile companies must register a name when a phone is purchased, registering that information with the government.
• If you make a 911 call, the operator will not accept your call unless you identify yourself as the owner of that number.

I think fake identities would actually be a better first step.

Be glad it's only your phone number and license plates that are documented, registry of property and home ownership and addresses should definitely be documented as well and is far more realistic.

Edited September 10, 2019 by Xoza

[krooks365]

+1 to burner phones.

[thiggins19]

On 9/10/2019 at 3:45 AM, Hazel said:

 

Tracing protocols are strict, we are not allowed to trace every John Doe with an Unlicensed Firearm charge or Jane Doe with Reckless Operation. I get that from the criminal side, it might appear like we are just tracing anyone we fancy from the warrants list but that is definitely not the case.

One small question. The other day I witnessed someone ask for a specific person at a location that they shouldn't of been able to find her. Her phone was on, no charges, no warrants, nothing illegal on her. Can you explain to me how detectives managed to find her when she was the only one with a phone on? You say it's strict, but I've witnessed people get their phones traced when they aren't even wanted. Seems like your protocols aren't as strict as you're saying OR you guys just don't follow then.  

 

Some following points, cops don't immediately have someone's phone number. They would after they call 911 but even then it could be someone else's phone, can't really use that as a reliable source of information. 

 I get the IC frustrations but they're IC. The MDC needs reworked, that's a fact. You shouldn't be able to put in someone's player ID and know everything about them. We've had some issues pop up recently with police officers doing so, why are people against having to type names? I'm not ID 212 in real life. You wouldn't type 212 and get my real name and phone number. You'd be able to get some form of address and such, but you wouldn't be getting my personal phone number. Just seems odd Everytime I see a PD suggestion every PD member says, "-1" because makes things harder on them. You want people to stop accusing you of Metagaming? Take out the IDs on the MDC. Matter of fact my legal was wanted for a reckless driving and someone searched my name in the MDC and used it to call me on my phone to tell me they were coming to arrest me at my location. How did they know my location without a trace? Furthermore, it's simple as this, we strive for real life, yes we have limitations, but the MDC should be as real as possible.

Edited September 11, 2019 by thiggins19
Added extra content.

[krooks365]

22 minutes ago, thiggins19 said:

 I get the IC frustrations but they're IC. The MDC needs reworked, that's a fact. You shouldn't be able to put in someone's player ID and know everything about them. We've had some issues pop up recently with police officers doing so, why are people against having to type names? I'm not ID 212 in real life. You wouldn't type 212 and get my real name and phone number. You'd be able to get some form of address and such, but you wouldn't be getting my personal phone number. Just seems odd Everytime I see a PD suggestion every PD member says, "-1" because makes things harder on them. You want people to stop accusing you of Metagaming? Take out the IDs on the MDC. Matter of fact my legal was wanted for a reckless driving and someone searched my name in the MDC and used it to call me on my phone to tell me they were coming to arrest me at my location. How did they know my location without a trace? Furthermore, it's simple as this, we strive for real life, yes we have limitations, but the MDC should be as real as possible.

This paragraph right here. 

[Tomvd682]

On ‎9‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 4:54 PM, alexalex303 said:

You call 911, you call everyone, you use the phone actively, and you want the police to not have access to it? We're roleplaying in the US, not Somalia.

Keep your phone off or risk it. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Why can't I eat a cake if I have one bro...

[smutty]

4 hours ago, thiggins19 said:

One small question. The other day I witnessed someone ask for a specific person at a location that they shouldn't of been able to find her. Her phone was on, no charges, no warrants, nothing illegal on her. Can you explain to me how detectives managed to find her when she was the only one with a phone on? You say it's strict, but I've witnessed people get their phones traced when they aren't even wanted. Seems like your protocols aren't as strict as you're saying OR you guys just don't follow then.  

.

I sincerely hope you reported it then

[TheCactus]

Remove MDC from the MDC please

As for the "random traces" we don't have many detectives in the department at this moment and I can assure you that everytime we ask them if they can trace someone, they check the record and won't randomly trace if there aren't serious outstanding felonies on the individual's record (or reasons such as kidnapping).

You can't just remove stuff like this since they are quite vital in many situations but I would like to see a rework since the actual system is quite dull.