Gang on Gang Imbalance

[Bala]

This is a genuine question that has puzzled me for months, not just about the Illegal Factions now but the Illegal Factions before this and I ask
Why do the only two official illegal factions on the server with like 95 members between them not fight one another and instead, pick on the smaller factions? 

I mean look at those screenshots. It's like 8 Seaweed against like 14 Triads and 19 Zetas. That says more about Seaweed than it does about either of the illegal factions. Imagine if it was those 19 Zetas standing across from those 14 Triads, now that would be a screenshot worth looking at. Real easy to talk tough, when you've got a 20+ man advantage.

I don't like Seaweed as a faction and I don't dislike either the Zetas or the Triads so this thread isn't made through bias, but if you are running a gang then surely the goal is get to top spot and fight to stay there?

Triads v. Zetas would be a lot more interesting as a bystander than big groups robbing small groups all the time. That way, gangs like Seaweed have the chance to grow a little and then these 95 people are too busy worrying about the other big gang coming to pop them that they aren't robbing civilians for hotdogs or playing chase me daddy with Police.

[Will215]

What's the point of warring when we can control the criminal part of the city together without any bother? The two gangs warring would only cause a loss of money for each side. Plus, the two gangs have mutual respect for each other. Why burn a relationship that has been formed over the course of months because a couple people in the city want to see a big war?

[Malcolm Carter]

It's interesting that as someone with a cop character you mention that you would like to see big gang wars as a bystander - I believe one of the many reasons why these gang wars are rarer now is because of the incredibly heavy police presence, which basically stops them from being possible. Hence, you see gangs allying because it's just too dangerous to be out on the streets fighting wars due to the huge financial and time cost (100k fines, 6 hours in prison etc.). As has been said in kind of similar threads, the server is currently unbalanced too heavily in favour of the police, and this forces gangs to cooperate to keep a lower profile.

I can only see this criminal status quo continuing/strengthening until criminals are given more freedom to take chances and make big moves.

Edited August 7, 2019 by Malcolm Carter

[SlickyRicky]

Some body has to stand up to them. Looks like only Seaweed has the guts though. To be honest the gang system reminds me of a dictatorship. The smaller gangs don’t realize they could probably overthrow the ones on top they just need coordination. Idk I find the gang rp and economy interesting. One day I think something like that will happen and I want to be in town for it lol.

[JayGamble]

20 minutes ago, GOAT said:

This is a genuine question that has puzzled me for months, not just about the Illegal Factions now but the Illegal Factions before this and I ask
Why do the only two official illegal factions on the server with like 95 members between them not fight one another and instead, pick on the smaller factions? 

I mean look at those screenshots. It's like 8 Seaweed against like 14 Triads and 19 Zetas. That says more about Seaweed than it does about either of the illegal factions. Imagine if it was those 19 Zetas standing across from those 14 Triads, now that would be a screenshot worth looking at. Real easy to talk tough, when you've got a 20+ man advantage.

I don't like Seaweed as a faction and I don't dislike either the Zetas or the Triads so this thread isn't made through bias, but if you are running a gang then surely the goal is get to top spot and fight to stay there?

Triads v. Zetas would be a lot more interesting as a bystander than big groups robbing small groups all the time. That way, gangs like Seaweed have the chance to grow a little and then these 95 people are too busy worrying about the other big gang coming to pop them that they aren't robbing civilians for hotdogs or playing chase me daddy with Police.

There is some major ignorance on your part; Both "The Wanted" & "The Rooks" exist, with massive numbers, and we have zero issues among st each other due to arrangements created between the two groups. Taking things out of context, and trying to address a problem that doesn't really exist, from the entire opposite side of the spectrum is confusing, to say the least.
 

1 minute ago, SlickyRicky said:

Some body has to stand up to them. Looks like only Seaweed has the guts though. To be honest the gang system reminds me of a dictatorship. The smaller gangs don’t realize they could probably overthrow the ones on top they just need coordination. Idk I find the gang rp and economy interesting. One day I think something like that will happen and I want to be in town for it lol.

The entire city has tried, it didn't work out that way. We have not been the majority, and still come out on top.

Edited August 7, 2019 by JayGamble

[Msato]

Why fight for the top when you can both sit there comfortably as a team. 

People moan about gang wars happening as is, can you imagine if the two largest factions were to be clashing heads 24/7. 

I'd also like to make it clear, both Triads and Zetas don't rob smaller groups, we have other ways of managing them. 

It's not like our two factions just were given their members and awarded their place, we all worked hard for it and have earned mutual respect for each other. 

[Tripcee]

1 minute ago, CallumMontie said:

I'd also like to make it clear, both Triads and Zetas don't rob smaller groups, we have other ways of managing them. 

[SlickyRicky]

Maybe if a few more gangs get faction status and they aren’t the only ones controlling the guns you might actually have some strife between the “official” gangs. Right now it’s definitely in both their best interests to get along.  That’s for sure.

[Wolokai142]

11 minutes ago, Tripcee said:

He means groups that reach a certain threshold of power and numbers, like Rooks, Wanted, etc. Seaweed didn't want to be managed, now seaweed is gone. If you're a group like, 4-5 deep you're probably gonna end up in some crosshairs regardless.

[Skippy]

2 minutes ago, Wolokai said:

He means groups that reach a certain threshold of power and numbers, like Rooks, Wanted, etc. Seaweed didn't want to be managed, now seaweed is gone. If you're a group like, 4-5 deep you're probably gonna end up in some crosshairs regardless.

seaweed isnt gone, they still very much around

 

[Riderz]

I mean between 1918-1980's Mafia's joined forces to start a criminal syndicate by the name of the Commission; who ran the criminal underworld for the entirety of that time. Any new blood would have to pay the fee or cease to exist by the will of the Commission.  

[diplodorkk]

There’s a reason both gangs are at where they are now. You wouldn’t be making this post months ago! 

[Msato]

12 minutes ago, SlickyRicky said:

Maybe if a few more gangs get faction status and they aren’t the only ones controlling the guns you might actually have some strife between the “official” gangs. Right now it’s definitely in both their best interests to get along.  That’s for sure.

If people want official status, then they should put in the grind like we did and follow the procedure.

Gangs arent gonna get official if they run around chain robbing all day putting in little to no OOC effort. 

People make it out like official should be easy to get but the system is in place to reward those that make the effort and survive the short life cycle of most gangs. 

Triads started out the same as everyone else, at one point we warred with zetas, time moved on and our rp/overall gang progressed leading to better things. 

Instead of complaining on the forums about "only two gangs have official" perhaps that energy could be better spent posting content on your faction forum etc and contribute positively to the community. 

[Pistol Pete]

I personally think it's a non-issue. I'm in Triads so maybe I'm a bit biased but let me give my thoughts.

I think it's easy to underestimate the amount of members within other, non-official gangs since they're not displayed within the panel. The official gangs are just the ones that have existed for a while and kept up a high standard of roleplay. I often see Seaweed, Rooks and Wanted with more numbers in town than the Triads!

Why aren't we at each others necks? There's a lot of reasons but the main one is probably that it makes more sense financially. I don't think this is far from reality either. If two large gangs could make more cash by remaining peaceful and helping each other out, I'm betting they'd at least consider it! Another reason which I think is very important is the fact that lots of the Zetas and Triads leadership have been IC friends for a long time, before formation of either gang.

We've already been told OOC that "PD have been getting completely overwhelmed by constant code-1s" and essentially asked to calm down with the current Triads & Zetas v Seaweed war. I think that's more of an IC issue but could you imagine the two biggest gangs fighting each other? Pandemonium!

There's nothing stopping these "smaller" gangs that we "pick on" getting more organised, growing and/or working together in an attempt to become the next big gang!

[DGanja]

At the end of the day, its about feelings and friendships made. People don't want to war their friends, and definitely don't want to lose all the loot stored in their homes so they do in fact pick on the smaller groups. Wars lead to personal tensions, OOC drama, and much butthurt from all parties. What's a way around that? "Allies"

 

No leader wants to lose members, but inevitably will lose members VS a group the size of the Zetiads as it becomes impossible to log in and attempt any sort of activity without having a swarm of 20-30 on one guy. That is Non-RP, no gang will roll around 30 deep in north america weapons blazing without the ATF or national guard being involved. 

Edited August 8, 2019 by DGanja

[JayGamble]

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This is how The Triads and Los Zetas started. Through diplomacy, and RP we have become quite good friends, and they are now one of the strongest gangs in the city. Perhaps when gangs learn how to be diplomatic, versus mindlessly shooting people all day, they will also grow into large organizations as some that exist on the server today.

[Tripcee]

I think if there were more things to do as a criminal the gang tensions would ease, right now there is only a limited amount of labs and 1 spot to chop, we need more ways to make money instead of trying to cram 100 People into 5 labs and 1 chopshop

[MrUntouchable215]

 

1 hour ago, GOAT said:

 

I mean look at those screenshots. It's like 8 Seaweed against like 14 Triads and 19 Zetas. That says more about Seaweed than it does about either of the illegal factions. Imagine if it was those 19 Zetas standing across from those 14 Triads, now that would be a screenshot worth looking at. Real easy to talk tough, when you've got a 20+ man advantage.

I don't like Seaweed as a faction and I don't dislike either the Zetas or the Triads so this thread isn't made through bias, but if you are running a gang then surely the goal is get to top spot and fight to stay there?

Triads v. Zetas would be a lot more interesting as a bystander than big groups robbing small groups all the time. That way, gangs like Seaweed have the chance to grow a little and then these 95 people are too busy worrying about the other big gang coming to pop them that they aren't robbing civilians for hotdogs or playing chase me daddy with Police.

Bro are you seriously going to sit here and tell me you missed the entire war with Zetas, Clowns, Traids vs the entire city? The irish war? Narcos, vice lords? You missed ALL of that? Anyone that remembers any of those wars wouldn't even think about saying anything remotely even close to what you said. Seaweed had their chance to grow, they had longer than most. All I'm saying is, learn your history. I get what you're saying here but log onto ECRP, go find a really old player and talk to him. You'll get your answers

Edit: I also want to point out that Los Zetas had far larger numbers before we were official. 

Edited August 8, 2019 by MrUntouchable215

[OBESE]

I mean just like the previous poster said - there have been wars and large ones. The last one, where we finally saw officials and mores specifically council to go against each other ended up to be a forum war, just like the previous one and it was won via forum and OOC methods. The biggest opposition to both, the only officials right now, was destroyed via OOC methods. Why? Because the server rules do not support "war" environment, which leads to the fact that the whole war is bunch of DM's, not from RP side, but from server rule side.

By the current server rules there is no such thing as "gang association" so you treat every individual as individual. Of course you could target the person, same as any other civilian in the city, but if you put a person at gun point who is part of your rival gang and suddenly 5 individuals, who happens to be part of the same gang as the person you have pulled a gun on, comes around the corner, then you're toasted because you do not have reason to open fire on them, although you know what they will do and that they are from the same gang so action will be taken, while they at the same time do have valid reason to open fire at you because you are pointing a gun at their friend/fellow gang member.

Then you get to the reality of what the war on the server is - financial war. The war will be won by those who have bigger financial stash and it goes money wise and weapon wise. The war on this server is like poker, where some players have 10k chips, some have 5k chips, some has 1k chips and some has only few hundreds. So those who has only few hundreds or even few thousands of chips can be bluffed with high stakes that makes them go all in. Of course there is possibility that they can play out their hand smart and even win the encounter, but the amount that the players with 10k chips will lose is nothing and in the end the high chip players will win because they will put high stakes until they get the winning hand.

To add to this comparison, then while there is no war, the high stake players charge the low stake players, have split monopoly on weapons and just are sitting there like dragons on gold becoming richer and making more chips for the time the poker starts.

[Balastas]

Obviously seaweeds are outnumbered and bullied, so lets play smart? Lets stop representing the gang if you're just chilling and put clothes/mask only when you're actually going to commit crime? No? okay then.

[Hootless]

I think its insane your trying to talk about what needs to be changed in criminal RP when you aren't a criminal. It is much more beneficial for us to be allied rather than to be at war, it is not our fault that other gangs cant hold it together long enough to get to where we are. 

[alexalex303]

-snipped after further clarification-

Edited August 8, 2019 by alexalex303

[JayGamble]

.

Edited August 8, 2019 by JayGamble

[shinx17]

3 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

As in, tax them, and if they refuse, then you rob them?

Correct. The point in the tax system is because being neutral is not beneficial. Neutral means we're not at war and we're not allied. That I have no say in your affairs, your fights or anything. If you're at a drug lab and we're neutral, we leave you to that and go on our way. Which means tons less money for us. We cant chop your cars, we cant make drugs if you're there, etc. The tax system was put in place to replace the funds we would get from robbing you for your assets and chopping your vehicles, with a sum of money that is by far unequal to what we would gain during war. Taking an Ak off of someone currently is around 40 grand a weapon, cars range from 3-10k and drugs can make you 100k+ a run. 20k from 5 members is light, 10k from 10 members is nothing, etc. It's not meant to be the "Big bad wolf" it's simply means to continue to make profits where there are none to be made. No one wants to fight the entire server 24/7.

When Zetas used to tax chopshop, we made around 400k or so every few weeks or so, now wanted runs the chop and that profit belongs to them. Official gangs are meant to provide the server with suitable gang Roleplay and there it is. Instead of us running around robbing everything in sight, day to day business continues and we stay out of your affairs.

[alexalex303]

-snipped after further clarification-

Edited August 8, 2019 by alexalex303