Gang on Gang Imbalance

[JayGamble]

.

Edited August 8, 2019 by JayGamble

[WeeMeme]

How dare two gangs with mutual friendships get along! 

[Marca]

Simple: there's no reason to. From a gameplay perspective, all official gangs are exactly the same to each other, only difference is their RP. Both have access to laptops and importing guns, ammo and mods. That's it. 

However if we give more responsibility and functions to official gangs, but they could fight for control for different things, they would have a gameplay and RP reason to fight. Until war is a beneficial option, alliances like these will remain. 

[padpilot]

Its all RP dude, Seaweed should have brought the balance in their favour first, Its all RP at the end of the day, both of those factions have had to RP to get to that position. What are they going to do now, just be like "nah fuck all that RP and history bro, lets just shoot each other and have a war"?


 

[TurbineT]

It’s called power and stability . It’s how criminal organisations work and prosper. And the taxes , well that’s how the system works , to show power and authority. There’s no bias here. Look at the PD, if the triads and zetas were to go to war and have to fend off the PD, where would we stand ? It’s compromise and diplomacy, it’s how criminal organisations have worked for years and will continue too , plus the taxes will not stop. It shows who’s in charge and to respect them rules. 

- Frank Manocchio  

[Draugas]

10 hours ago, CallumMontie said:

Why fight for the top when you can both sit there comfortably as a team. 

People moan about gang wars happening as is, can you imagine if the two largest factions were to be clashing heads 24/7. 

I'd also like to make it clear, both Triads and Zetas don't rob smaller groups, we have other ways of managing them. 

It's not like our two factions just were given their members and awarded their place, we all worked hard for it and have earned mutual respect for each other. 

Why fight for the top when you can both sit there comfortably as a team.  - Loooool so maybe one or the other drop their faction and join one another and become one ? Comfortably as a team lool

[Msato]

8 minutes ago, Draugas said:

Why fight for the top when you can both sit there comfortably as a team.  - Loooool so maybe one or the other drop their faction and join one another and become one ? Comfortably as a team lool

Why on earth would we merge our factions, do you have any concept of how business mergers. Work irl? - they're 90% terrible. 

Both factions have unique aspects to them that keeps them from being one entity. People aren't forced to join us and stay, they chose the one that suits them best and still interact happily with the other.

Sister gangs exist irl - I don't see the issue with this being the case here. Once there was 5 official illegal factions only 3 got along. Now there's 2 remaining and they are 2/3 that got along. 

[Draugas]

1 minute ago, CallumMontie said:

Why on earth would we merge our factions, do you have any concept of how business mergers. Work irl? - they're 90% terrible. 

Both factions have unique aspects to them that keeps them from being one entity. People aren't forced to join us and stay, they chose the one that suits them best and still interact happily with the other.

Sister gangs exist irl - I don't see the issue with this being the case here. Once there was 5 official illegal factions only 3 got along. Now there's 2 remaining and they are 2/3 that got along. 

Yeah..- Nah the factions are decent its the way u expressed yourself man  but yeah all good bro.

[Cyrus Raven]

+1/-1 

 

I think it's a bit hypocritical to criticize the RP of gangs when defending PD and their RP reasons for essentially being superior. Both have their own merits and both are adapting to situations in-character. 

Having said this, I do not like that the only two official gangs on the server are allied. However, my reason for disliking it isn't because of the RP, but because I think there shouldn't be such a big barrier to entry to becoming an official gang, especially considering the advantage official gangs have. 

If a group of players wants to create a gang, have a faction chat and be able to use the same perks official gangs have right now, then they should be able to do this, maybe by paying X amount to create the gang slot, as it stands becoming official gives you a ton of advantages which I don't see any reason to keep behind a script.

In that regard, my proposal would be to somehow allow groups access to the perks official gangs get (either by allowing them to create an official gang themselves on the F4 menu or by making the ability to recruit, import weapons, etc... publicly available to anyone who has enough money to dish out.)

Edited August 8, 2019 by Kyle White Raven

[Brawnkoh]

1 hour ago, Kyle White Raven said:

+1/-1 

 

I think it's a bit hypocritical to criticize the RP of gangs when defending PD and their RP reasons for essentially being superior. Both have their own merits and both are adapting to situations in-character. 

Having said this, I do not like that the only two official gangs on the server are allied. However, my reason for disliking it isn't because of the RP, but because I think there shouldn't be such a big barrier to entry to becoming an official gang, especially considering the advantage official gangs have. 

If a group of players wants to create a gang, have a faction chat and be able to use the same perks official gangs have right now, then they should be able to do this, maybe by paying X amount to create the gang slot, as it stands becoming official gives you a ton of advantages which I don't see any reason to keep behind a script.

In that regard, my proposal would be to somehow allow groups access to the perks official gangs get (either by allowing them to create an official gang themselves on the F4 menu or by making the ability to recruit, import weapons, etc... publicly available to anyone who has enough money to dish out.)

The gangs that are official, have become so for a reason. It's a goal to achieve, and work for. Look at groups like The Wanted that have been around for months and still are not official. I personally don't see a point in adding an easy pathway to heavy weaponry, treasury, and faction chat. You want the gangs with access to heavies to respect their position, and make sure it's something they don't want to lose. Otherwise, the server becomes overly choatic. I want to see people earn it, not buy it.

Just my opinion. Take it with a grain of salt.

[Javed11]

As someone who was involved in both the Vice vs Zeta/Irish/Clowns as a Vice char, and the war between Irish/Wanted + Small Gangs vs Clowns/Zetas, there are still plenty of wars and drama between big factions, right now It would be idiotic for Zetas and Triads to go to war in both an RP stand point and a financial standpoint. 

While I do agree getting official is pretty difficult, I personally prefer it that way so it will be more rewarding when people eventually accomplish this. 

You also bring up the point of Seaweed being "Picked on" by these two larger gangs, however there are many chances to not go to war in RP on this servers, gangs dont go to war with no reasoning. As our gang has done the same in the past, this is their fight against the two large gangs, and good luck to them

 

-Mojo

[Cyrus Raven]

36 minutes ago, Brawnkoh said:

The gangs that are official, have become so for a reason. It's a goal to achieve, and work for. Look at groups like The Wanted that have been around for months and still are not official. I personally don't see a point in adding an easy pathway to heavy weaponry, treasury, and faction chat. You want the gangs with access to heavies to respect their position, and make sure it's something they don't want to lose. Otherwise, the server becomes overly choatic. I want to see people earn it, not buy it.

Just my opinion. Take it with a grain of salt.

I agree with you to an extent. I think it is great that gangs who have put in the effort get recognized, but I would personally prefer to see this in a non-script way. 

 

I just don't really like how if you have a large group of people (AKA Rooks, Wanted ''Insert any group created with a healthy number of people'') you are automatically disadvantaged by a script. It isn't the fact that Zetas or Triads have an RP control on the import market or something along those lines, it just a script that tells them ''hey you are superior and somehow this laptop will only work with you and no one else''. 

Giving recognition and praise where it is due is fine by me, brand them as the top gangs on the server or even keep them as ''official gangs'', but take the script limits away from other gangs who want to take a shot and being in the top.

[Nubbsauce]

I know in the rest of the city's eyes, that gangs allying doesn't seem fun/fair/whatever but when all you get are AKs with only a few hundred bullets to distribute between those 95 people, losing them to a gang fight is fine. You can get those back the longer the gangs fight. However, it is when Police get involved when it becomes not worth it. Not only are we losing our weapons, but 100s of thousands of dollars and 6+ REAL hours of our time because we got shot by a 50 cal sniper or mowed down by a cop with a carbine. Cops are extremely overpowered in the equipment they have and can use AT WILL and FOR FREE. I'm sorry, but kevlar will not effectively stop an AK47 bullet. So when it takes a cop about 30 AK rounds to get downed....there is a problem.

"Kevlar is a high strength fiber which happens to be really good at stopping slow, soft, fat bullets. Usually these come in the form of pistol and SMG bullets, such as the .45 ACP and 9mm Parabellum ammunition types."

So sure, getting shot by a pistol and surviving makes sense. However: 

"Unfortunately, Kevlar cannot as effectively stop rifle rounds, which are the opposite of slow, soft, fat handgun ammunition. "

What can stop an ak47 round is armor plates like military wear. But as far as I'm concerned no regular officer is wearing plates, just Kevlar.

Personally, I only like when gangs have alliances when there is good RP involved with it. Pointless wars to flex is pointless and only gets police involved, who have been known by many as "The largest gang." Gang on Gang warfare, or the lack of it, isn't the problem. Its the involvement of PD while gangs are hashing it out. Also, there needs to be more criminal related content added to the game. Right now there isn't a whole lot to do, and the risk is way too high. A few years back there were terfs. Savages and Syndicate owned a lot of them, while smaller factions had a few. However, when Savages or Syndicate wanted turf from one another...their fights were brutal. SO brutal the police would wait for the gunfire to stop before rolling up. Those fights happened because Turf allowed you to import items and owning 3 turfs gave you a ware house. There would be several times, massive orders of guns and ammo would be purchased and you would see a convoy of 3-4 Semi Trucks escorted by cars FULL of gang members making sure those trucks got to the warehouse safely. Sometimes other gangs would try to intercept the convoy and some of the best tactics I've seen in a while would take place stopping them or trying to. If we had turfs, smaller gangs and larger gangs could RPLY take the turfs and have a reason to defend it or fight over it.

 I'm sorry, but PD should not dictate how criminals run their factions when they themselves haven't the slightest clue how much politics is actually involved in it.

Edited August 8, 2019 by Nubbsauce

[shinx17]

1 hour ago, Kyle White Raven said:

I agree with you to an extent. I think it is great that gangs who have put in the effort get recognized, but I would personally prefer to see this in a non-script way. 

 

I just don't really like how if you have a large group of people (AKA Rooks, Wanted ''Insert any group created with a healthy number of people'') you are automatically disadvantaged by a script. It isn't the fact that Zetas or Triads have an RP control on the import market or something along those lines, it just a script that tells them ''hey you are superior and somehow this laptop will only work with you and no one else''. 

Giving recognition and praise where it is due is fine by me, brand them as the top gangs on the server or even keep them as ''official gangs'', but take the script limits away from other gangs who want to take a shot and being in the top.

Let me put you on game. Official does NOT give you that many advantages. Yes, the laptop is dope and we can put a monopoly on heavy guns but keep in mind, Zetas were much higher in numbers before we had official (Our cap is 60 members) before official, we were almost peaking 100 members and we were just as organized and put together as today. Heavy weapons were never an issue for us back then either because before official, there were territories and warehouses and every gang could access them depending on how strong you were. Los Zetas never had the opportunity to own a warehouse back then but we used to buy heavy weapons by the weight even still, even when they were shut down. There are older players that still have access to a mountain of weapons and just like us, you have to RPly find them. Before LFB became official before, we met with them and set up a line of heavy weapons, before Irish was official, we did the same thing with them.

There's a reason why official is so hard to get and it's because people tend to think they can't maintain without it and that's just false. I also want to point out that having a monopoly on heavy weapons are a required thing. The staff team removed territories for a reason. I think people have this notion that it's "unfair" but fail to realize that these gangs didnt just invite their friends from another server and got really selfish with everything official has to offer. Keep in mind that official factions house players of ECRP and lots of them. The council was a MUCH scarier group before official. Please stop thinking becoming Official is the finish line, it's seriously not. You have to have your shit in order before you get the F4 menu. 

[alexalex303]

46 minutes ago, Nubbsauce said:

I know in the rest of the city's eyes, that gangs allying doesn't seem fun/fair/whatever but when all you get are AKs with only a few hundred bullets to distribute between those 95 people, losing them to a gang fight is fine. You can get those back the longer the gangs fight. However, it is when Police get involved when it becomes not worth it. Not only are we losing our weapons, but 100s of thousands of dollars and 6+ REAL hours of our time because we got shot by a 50 cal sniper or mowed down by a cop with a carbine. Cops are extremely overpowered in the equipment they have and can use AT WILL and FOR FREE. I'm sorry, but kevlar will not effectively stop an AK47 bullet. So when it takes a cop about 30 AK rounds to get downed....there is a problem.

"Kevlar is a high strength fiber which happens to be really good at stopping slow, soft, fat bullets. Usually these come in the form of pistol and SMG bullets, such as the .45 ACP and 9mm Parabellum ammunition types."

So sure, getting shot by a pistol and surviving makes sense. However: 

"Unfortunately, Kevlar cannot as effectively stop rifle rounds, which are the opposite of slow, soft, fat handgun ammunition. "

What can stop an ak47 round is armor plates like military wear. But as far as I'm concerned no regular officer is wearing plates, just Kevlar.

Personally, I only like when gangs have alliances when there is good RP involved with it. Pointless wars to flex is pointless and only gets police involved, who have been known by many as "The largest gang." Gang on Gang warfare, or the lack of it, isn't the problem. Its the involvement of PD while gangs are hashing it out. Also, there needs to be more criminal related content added to the game. Right now there isn't a whole lot to do, and the risk is way too high. A few years back there were terfs. Savages and Syndicate owned a lot of them, while smaller factions had a few. However, when Savages or Syndicate wanted turf from one another...their fights were brutal. SO brutal the police would wait for the gunfire to stop before rolling up. Those fights happened because Turf allowed you to import items and owning 3 turfs gave you a ware house. There would be several times, massive orders of guns and ammo would be purchased and you would see a convoy of 3-4 Semi Trucks escorted by cars FULL of gang members making sure those trucks got to the warehouse safely. Sometimes other gangs would try to intercept the convoy and some of the best tactics I've seen in a while would take place stopping them or trying to. If we had turfs, smaller gangs and larger gangs could RPLY take the turfs and have a reason to defend it or fight over it.

 I'm sorry, but PD should not dictate how criminals run their factions when they themselves haven't the slightest clue how much politics is actually involved in it.

I don't want to turn this into a gang vs PD thread, but inevitably it gets brought up, in every gang thread.

The armor is not realistic, the fact that no gangs have .50 cals is not realistic, it's not realistic on purpose, it's meant to deter you from shooting cops. The armor doesn't help that much, just look at the rooks thread, where they pose with dead cop corpses on cruisers. The .50 cal that you speak of, only ~6 people out of a faction of 100+ have access to it, and only when they're in full SWAT gear. It's there because after shooting cops, people even took on SWAT. SWAT should not be something you fight, but people did, and that's why .50 cals are there, for a very few select members.

It's true that realistically a cop would not be wearing armor plates, however with how criminally active Los Santos is, it probably sees more gunfire than Somalia in 1993. So if it helps your immersion, you can say that cops were issued plates in response to high crime rates. It shouldn't affect much, just don't get in extended shootouts with police.

On to the actual topic though.

I personally would like to see the turf system back, working just like the old days. Maybe limit it even more. Since there are only two official factions, make it 5 turfs, and the faction that controls 3 has access to a warehouse. The rest of the turfs can give smaller bonuses, like tax reduction? more % on selling drugs to NPC, etc. If more factions are made official, more turfs are added, but not enough for everyone. That way you can have wars for a reasonable goal, or they can share if they agree IC.

[Cyrus Raven]

36 minutes ago, shinx17 said:

Let me put you on game. Official does NOT give you that many advantages. Yes, the laptop is dope and we can put a monopoly on heavy guns but keep in mind, Zetas were much higher in numbers before we had official (Our cap is 60 members) before official, we were almost peaking 100 members and we were just as organized and put together as today. Heavy weapons were never an issue for us back then either because before official, there were territories and warehouses and every gang could access them depending on how strong you were. Los Zetas never had the opportunity to own a warehouse back then but we used to buy heavy weapons by the weight even still, even when they were shut down. There are older players that still have access to a mountain of weapons and just like us, you have to RPly find them. Before LFB became official before, we met with them and set up a line of heavy weapons, before Irish was official, we did the same thing with them.

There's a reason why official is so hard to get and it's because people tend to think they can't maintain without it and that's just false. I also want to point out that having a monopoly on heavy weapons are a required thing. The staff team removed territories for a reason. I think people have this notion that it's "unfair" but fail to realize that these gangs didnt just invite their friends from another server and got really selfish with everything official has to offer. Keep in mind that official factions house players of ECRP and lots of them. The council was a MUCH scarier group before official. Please stop thinking becoming Official is the finish line, it's seriously not. You have to have your shit in order before you get the F4 menu. 

I agree with most of what you said. But my argument is that the power dynamics between gangs should be exclusively done RP'ly and not script-wise. In other words, yes gangs who have been through a lot and have dedicated a lot of time and money should be at the top, but this should be achieved through RP, having little to no perks or advantages from being in the F4 menu. 

I don't see why we can't have other gangs that have their own faction chat, treasury, etc.. Or why these things aren't just available to everyone. At the end of the day these are mechanics that say nothing about the quality of RP and serve as an advantage. I would love to see this shifting to advantages gotten via excellent roleplay and not just because X gang has access to a script that gives them an advantage.


That's why I made a suggestion with regards to turfs a month or so ago.
 

 

Edited August 8, 2019 by Kyle White Raven

[gohena]

I addressed this point a while back on a post i made on criminal life vs pd life

[Brawnkoh]

20 minutes ago, Kyle White Raven said:

I agree with most of what you said. But my argument is that the power dynamics between gangs should be exclusively done RP'ly and not script-wise. In other words, yes gangs who have been through a lot and have dedicated a lot of time and money should be at the top, but this should be achieved through RP, having little to no perks or advantages from being in the F4 menu. 

I don't see why we can't have other gangs that have their own faction chat, treasury, etc.. Or why these things aren't just available to everyone. At the end of the day these are mechanics that say nothing about the quality of RP and serve as an advantage. I would love to see this shifting to advantages gotten via excellent roleplay and not just because X gang has access to a script that gives them an advantage.


That's why I made a suggestion with regards to turfs a month or so ago.
 

 

I get where you're coming from, and here is my counter. Just for reference, I am not in any official faction.

Police, Weazel, DCC, SD, DOC, etc all have a script advantage. There are scripts in place that allow them to do whatever specific job they have to do on top of the standard Treasury and script based wages. In my opinion, it doesn't make sense to take away a gangs official script advantage, yet keep advantages for "government factions".

If I were to decide I wanted to start a legal business today and work it into an official legal faction, those already established have a much easier time than I. It's a long grind, and I'm at a disadvantage due to no treasury or scripts to help maintain payments, jobs, etc. I think looking at the big picture, in my opinion, it's either all okay, or none of it is okay. 

If we want to argue regarding factions in general, I think there's some merit. But I don't believe taking away only illegal factions script advantage is right.

[Tripcee]

1 minute ago, Brawnkoh said:

I get where you're coming from, and here is my counter. Just for reference, I am not in any official faction.

Police, Weazel, DCC, SD, DOC, etc all have a script advantage. There are scripts in place that allow them to do whatever specific job they have to do on top of the standard Treasury and script based wages. In my opinion, it doesn't make sense to take away a gangs official script advantage, yet keep advantages for "government factions".

If I were to decide I wanted to start a legal business today and work it into an official legal faction, those already established have a much easier time than I. It's a long grind, and I'm at a disadvantage due to no treasury or scripts to help maintain payments, jobs, etc. I think looking at the big picture, in my opinion, it's either all okay, or none of it is okay. 

I think anyone should be able to create a faction and have the advantiges of using a faction bank/chat and all of that, maybe as you get bigger you gain contacts which allow you to get gun imports, but everyone should have access to create a faction that gets a faction bank and all that jazz

[Brawnkoh]

2 minutes ago, Tripcee said:

I think anyone should be able to create a faction and have the advantiges of using a faction bank/chat and all of that, maybe as you get bigger you gain contacts which allow you to get gun imports, but everyone should have access to create a faction that gets a faction bank and all that jazz

To my knowledge, the system used to be much more like this. I don't know the specifics exactly, but I know there were many more factions. However, that was before my time. So I can't really speak on it. I'm not sure what worked, and what didn't work, that caused the change.

[alexalex303]

16 minutes ago, Brawnkoh said:

To my knowledge, the system used to be much more like this. I don't know the specifics exactly, but I know there were many more factions. However, that was before my time. So I can't really speak on it. I'm not sure what worked, and what didn't work, that caused the change.

The roleplay standard for some of those factions was very mediocre, and it was relatively easy to abuse faction chat to metagame, with little recourse as you need evidence to report people.

Edited August 8, 2019 by alexalex303

[Tripcee]

3 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

The roleplay standard for some of those factions was very mediocre, and it was relatively easy to abuse faction chat to metagame, with little recourse as you need evidence to report people.

Well it could come in stages, like you get a bank, prove to not be a bunch of meta gamers then get the chat and so there is more of a progression to official faction, right now it's either your official and you get all the perks or your not and you don't

[Lucius.D]

Now im new to the server so take my opinion with a grain of salt, but its also a matter of scale and teritory. There isnt a scarcity of teritory to contest. 

In a broad sense you have 3 or so levels of teritory. 

Declared territory, implied territory, and Resource Nodes. 

Declared territory is anyplace a gang would consider a base of operations or a safe haven. Publicly known or not its a common meeting point and hangout. Large concentrations of members wont be contested. 

Implied territory is any region that is unlikely to be contested on a general basis. While vague and Flexable, a block or two around a declared territory location or an economic region usually suffice. A bikergang in Blane county. The Mob in a high class area. Hoodrats on Grove street. While maybe not defined to exact blocks the implications are clear:  you look like you belong, or you dont. 

Lastly Resource Nodes. Static locations that are public geneally immovable or vastly limited. The Chopshop or the farms. Places that dont have a name tied to them they can be fought over. Or owned places like gas stations or other businesses that can change hands. A Resource Node can be a direct or indirect territory location as well but not without much more substantial investment in defense and diplomacy to maintain that status. 

In the end, we dont have enough large groups to put serious pressure on the others to maintain territory! Noone is fighting for blocks or stressed on income. They found their niches and there is no reason to take more than they can handle. The city is big and pleanty more large groups can claim swaths of direct territory before butting up against another. 

And even then they dont need to compete. Sharing resources and taking taxes is much more profitable than maintaining a blockade of the nodes. All parties have reached an equilibrium. 

You want constant war? Join a DM server. This is all economics and game theory. Untill there is more pressure in the enviroment there is no need for conflict.  

And if your idea of pressure is 4 guys with a big chip on their shoulder and a bigger ego, then you're going to be an annoyance. 

Of course this is a gross simplification of months and years of history and economics but alliances and monopolies are just good strategy. To simply suggest they change a working strategy is ignorance bordering on insult.

[Nubbsauce]

3 hours ago, alexalex303 said:

I don't want to turn this into a gang vs PD thread, but inevitably it gets brought up, in every gang thread.

The armor is not realistic, the fact that no gangs have .50 cals is not realistic, it's not realistic on purpose, it's meant to deter you from shooting cops. The armor doesn't help that much, just look at the rooks thread, where they pose with dead cop corpses on cruisers. The .50 cal that you speak of, only ~6 people out of a faction of 100+ have access to it, and only when they're in full SWAT gear. It's there because after shooting cops, people even took on SWAT. SWAT should not be something you fight, but people did, and that's why .50 cals are there, for a very few select members.

It's true that realistically a cop would not be wearing armor plates, however with how criminally active Los Santos is, it probably sees more gunfire than Somalia in 1993. So if it helps your immersion, you can say that cops were issued plates in response to high crime rates. It shouldn't affect much, just don't get in extended shootouts with police.

On to the actual topic though.

I personally would like to see the turf system back, working just like the old days. Maybe limit it even more. Since there are only two official factions, make it 5 turfs, and the faction that controls 3 has access to a warehouse. The rest of the turfs can give smaller bonuses, like tax reduction? more % on selling drugs to NPC, etc. If more factions are made official, more turfs are added, but not enough for everyone. That way you can have wars for a reasonable goal, or they can share if they agree IC.

While I'm aware that .50 cals are very limited in who uses them, that doesn't take away from the fact that PD has access to a plethora of superior weaponry. Sure, you can say its because they are PD, and I get that. In GTA they should have more weaponry. But the issue lies in the equality of the items provided. For example, Armor. Criminals can order armor for an absurd amount...and it's not even comparable to PD armor... not even CLOSE. It is literally worthless to buy, because it does nothing for you.  When a group of gang members can get downed by 1 SWAT with a carbine, that is in NO WAY fair, especially if the gang members have high caliber assault rifles designed to penetrate. When cops show up, we either disengage and run, or die and spend hours in prison. On a side note, if you are shot twice in the head, you should be pronounced dead at the scene, not have a bandage slapped over the headshot and hauled off to prison. 

Another thing that needs to be mentioned is that you don't lose anything when you die as PD, to my knowledge. You don't pay for weapons if you lose them whilst on duty. You don't pay for armor that gets used up. You clock in, get armored up, get your weapons, and go out on the street. I think to add more dynamic to the PD and balance between gangs and PD, would be give PD something they can lose... Like if you lose a weapon, you get charged for it in your salary when you clock out. If you take out armor, you pay for it in salary when you take it out. It wont have to cost a lot since the department itself pays for majority of it, but you should have to pay a % if it is lost or used up.

As far as turfs go, I think there needs to be a good amount. Not just 5. There should be districts around the City, in blaine county/Sandy, and Paleto. Not only will this allow for more gangs to have more dynamic RP, but more RP Based on their turf's location. I do think you should NOT be able to order unless you ARE official, but I think ALL gangs should be able to take turf and at least utilize the warehouse for storage purposes.

But to back up alliances or business agreements between gangs, I'll say this. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

A lot of times, even during a gang war. Gangs would come together, and put differences aside for a few, and unite against the PD when, and if, their leaders were taken and could face a prison sentence. At the end of the day, gangs are linked by common ground and will come together when need be. While I prefer neutrality and not picking sides among gangs, every gang's true enemy is the Law. 

Edited August 8, 2019 by Nubbsauce

[Cyrus Raven]

2 hours ago, Brawnkoh said:

I get where you're coming from, and here is my counter. Just for reference, I am not in any official faction.

Police, Weazel, DCC, SD, DOC, etc all have a script advantage. There are scripts in place that allow them to do whatever specific job they have to do on top of the standard Treasury and script based wages. In my opinion, it doesn't make sense to take away a gangs official script advantage, yet keep advantages for "government factions".

If I were to decide I wanted to start a legal business today and work it into an official legal faction, those already established have a much easier time than I. It's a long grind, and I'm at a disadvantage due to no treasury or scripts to help maintain payments, jobs, etc. I think looking at the big picture, in my opinion, it's either all okay, or none of it is okay. 

If we want to argue regarding factions in general, I think there's some merit. But I don't believe taking away only illegal factions script advantage is right.

Well, in this case, I wouldn't want to remove the script at all, but make it something any group or individual can use or allow people to literally do /creategang, pay X amount of money to form it and then allow them to use the tools the official gangs are able to use. I have an issue with the disadvantage, not necessarily the script. Allowing all gangs access to these features would make those who are better equipped and generally better roleplayers stay at the top. While as of right now it seems than some groups thrive not only because of their numbers but also because they have an easier time recruiting and acquiring weapons that make them powerful. While other gangs are essentially forced to play on the exact same server but with none of these advantages.

 

To modify your analogy it's as if SD was supposed to uphold the law, detain/arrest suspects and do everything else PD those but with half or none of the tools available to PD. (No cuffing ability, can't add charges, can't drag people, no backup system, etc...)