LEO Equipment Shop

[Harley]

Henlo Eclipse Roleplay Fanatics

During the last 6 months I've spent some time in other communities and servers and have gathered quite a few ideas that I think ECRP would benefit from by implementing a similar feature, one of these that really stuck with me was LEO's purchasing their own equipment and vehicles. This post is dedicated to the equipment side.

Today's suggestion is fairly simple, and would replace the current /fl system that LEOs currently use.

Today's Use Case

Currently, today LEOs do the following:

• Clock on
• /fl
• Choose equipment they want to use
• Do a couple /me's to RP getting the equipment.
• Out on the streets in 30 seconds, with potentially no RP

The cons to this system are:

• LEOs get free and unlimited use of whichever equipment they want at any time
• LEO equipment can be replenished whenever they like, and a few bad apples could effectively give themselves unlimited equipment
• LEOs have no sense of ownership or responsibility over the wellbeing of their equipment.

Suggested Change

• Add a shop (Similar to DOC's shop script) where LEOs can purchase equipment in each of their station's locker room and/or armoury

Benefits to this are:

• LEOs have a sense of ownership and responsibility of their equipment - Adding further roleplay to LEOs, having to ensure the upkeep of their equipment and weapons.
  • Cleaning Weapons - Currently LEOs don't get to use this script. Their weapons never get to the stage of needing cleaning because they're deleted/spawned whenever they log on/off.
    • Cleaning Weapons RP actually gets a real use-case. LEOs will have to clean their own weapons, making everything feel much more realistic AND adding balance, etc.
       
• LEOs no longer have unlimited supply of all equipment:
  • LEOs would be expected to purchase their equipment from the shop, and actually carry them with them.
  • Heavies could actually be put in their weapons rack in their cruisers (Potentially an additional inventory slot(s) in the glovebox UI that is locked to only be available to LEOs or people in front seat)
  • Other equipment (Spikes, Extra Armour, etc) could be actually stored in the trunk of an LEO's cruiser. LEOs would be expected to collect their equipment and pack up their cruisers before heading out. Preventing LEOs logging on, clocking on, spawning a cruiser and getting out on the streets within 30 seconds.
     
• LEO equipment & weapons would have an actual value, and could be re-introduced to the server's sandbox, adding more variety to the weapons used/found on the server, and adding a "Black Market" to the criminal world.
   
• A new law/charge could be added to the Penal Code "Possession of a Police Issued Firearm" - Any criminal found in possession of a firearm issued for police (Aquired in any way) would be charged with this charge. It would be double the time and fine to its regular counterpart - This would counteract the incentive criminals would naturally see to hunting police for their equipment.
   
• LEOs would have to plan their shift accordingly - Expect to be on shift for 8 hours straight? Should probably buy more ammo, more taser cartridges and extra armour vests, for this shift. 
   
• And lastly, one I think other LEOs may agree with me here, an actual use for their money and salary:
  • I've had my fair share of experience being an LEO in ECRP and one thing I have heard over and over again is "I have no use for my money so I'll just save for X super, etc" - if LEOs actually have to spend their money on equipment, ammo, armour, etc, they will not have the sense of uselessness for their money, they'll have a use for their salary, while still earning an income to use on personal items, such as a house, cars, etc. while also not all being millionaires due to having no expenses.
     
  • LEO equipment would be less costly than Gun Store & Illegal prices for their counterparts - This suggestion is not to wipe the pockets of LEOs completely clean. They should still expect their salary to be mostly personal money, but it's then their discretion if they'd like to spend more personal money on having more fun on duty, or to save the money to buy personal items such as vehicles, houses, etc.
     
  • This also addresses a consistent bit of negative feedback the community has had for years - PD get free X, Y and Z. If I had a penny every time I heard someone complain about this in #General I'd be able to buy a Comet Retro - This addition sounds like a Win-Win for both sides of the argument.

 

Apologies for the lengthy post for such a small development, but I wanted to highlight the thought process around why I made this suggestion, to hopefully clear up any assumptions people may have, and to highlight that this is coming from the viewpoint of improving LEO RP and not just a criminal wanting cops to be "Less OP".

I'd love to hear feedback, thoughts and concerns on this so feel free to comment!

[Jett_J]

Tbh I like getting free equipment just like irl.

-1

[Mikazuki Ueno]

-1

Appreciate the thought and time that went into this, bI don’t think this direction aligns with what we should be prioritizing right now. There are larger system-level improvements and community balance issues that I believe deserve more immediate focus, especially when dev time is limited. While the roleplay angle is interesting, introducing individual purchasing and tracking systems for standard equipment feels like a lot of complexity for marginal gain.

 

[Harley]

2 minutes ago, Mikazuki Ueno said:

-1

Appreciate the thought and time that went into this, bI don’t think this direction aligns with what we should be prioritizing right now. There are larger system-level improvements and community balance issues that I believe deserve more immediate focus, especially when dev time is limited. While the roleplay angle is interesting, introducing individual purchasing and tracking systems for standard equipment feels like a lot of complexity for marginal gain.

 

Appreciate your viewpoint here. I believe an easy way around this would be to recycle the current shop script. It'll essentially be a copy/paste of the DOC shop script, but just implemented into each LEO HQ, such as Sandy, Paleto, Mission Row, etc. Obviously just replacing the items for sale with LEO equipment. Tracking systems would simply just be LEO Faction leaders are the scripted owners of these stores (Just like DOC) - They'll be able to see via shop logs who purchases what to see if someone's bought something they shouldn't

[Trevor Zelias]

This is a +1 from me being both Leo and Crim now.

 

Sadly I know many PD and SD will be posting -1 because they want their stuff on silver spoons. But real LEOs will post a +1.

 

Also an idea making this a real thing on all factions MD, PD and mechanics could use a system where they need to get their stuff and dont have unlimited stocks. Many other communities I have played have it for mechanics not sure if MD. As this could bring some trucker x faction RP within the new levels. Which also could bring the "Illegal Items" into use as well for the cartel or something similar. 

 

 

Again +1 on the post itself just my own idea after. But as stated PD/SD most likely will -1 this.

 

 

[alexalex303]

-1 unless we remove ALL OOC corruption rules and cops can randomly charge you, arrest you and steal your things, since they are now paying for their equipment, they should use it the same way as crims do (doing whatever they want with it).

obviously there can be IC repercussions but no more OOC enforcement.

[Victor Einhart]

This would immediately create a hostile pvp environment because of the nature of the server.

Right now LSPD is overly tolerant of people being nearby to a scene, for example at Legion. With this change, there would be zero tolerance for people interfering as there would be a game play incentive for people to try and down an officer and steal all their equipment. Officers would be forced away from a laid back attitude and be vigilant and aggressive towards absolutely everyone. There would be zero tolerance towards people trying to insert themselves into a scene or even be near a scene.

This would invalidate the direction LSPD is trying to go in for the worse in my opinion, because people would then have a game play incentive to pvp with LSPD even if only to drain their bank account.

I for one would advocate for an extremely hostile and intolerant stance towards people not involved in a scene if this change was implemented. You would not enjoy it, and I would not enjoy it.

[AtlasOLimbo]

18 minutes ago, Trevor Zelias said:

Sadly I know many PD and SD will be posting -1 because they want their stuff on silver spoons. But real LEOs will post a +1.

-1 As someone who's been around since COVID days as both LEO and crim. This change would drastically reduce motivation on LEO's side and as stated above, LEOs would be even more vicious than they are now.

This may sound good on paper, but would fall flat on its face in execution.

[Bala]

It's not GMOD.

Well thought out suggestion but no.

[Shimo]

No. This would mean that LSEMS would also have to pay for their equipment which makes absolutely no sense.

 

Government organizations are funded by the government. Potential repercussions for repeatedly abusing equipment? That already gets handled IC through Internal Affairs for each department.

[Requiem]

As was already mentioned by Einhart above, this would not end well for law enforcement, and especially not for criminals. The same way that criminals get upset about losing assets and items when they die or lose a situation, law enforcement would likely adopt a similar attitude. I can tell you for certain that if law enforcement was at risk of losing things they had to pay for, they will care about those items significantly more, which means going WAY harder on crims than anyone does now to ensure their equipment stays secure. Police would become far more hostile and less laid back and you can bet there would be significantly more search warrants and raids if police equipment gets lost or stolen. 

[MrSilky]

Are you suggesting this is paid for out of their personal wallet, or the faction treasury?

If you are suggesting the treasury, all this does is add a few extra mundane and monotonous steps for LEOs to reach the same goal and equipment loadout as, simply put, PD & SD will always have the funding they need to do their faction duties effectively. What may surprise you and many others is that the majority of PD & SD members enjoy law enforcement roleplay, not PvP, and the server requires law enforcement presence to support both criminal and legal civilian roleplay. 

If you are suggesting the equipment is paid for from their personal wallet then I don't think you grasp the concept of ownership. The difference between gov factions equipment and criminal/civilian player equipment is that one owns the equipment and can use that equipment to gain more equipment for future use/profits - the other does not and simply uses the equipment to conduct their faction duties and goes home with a sense of achievement but no "loot".

It would make zero logical sense for gov faction members to purchase items they cannot own so that they can conduct their faction duties and earn a maximum of $8,000/hour (before tax). While on the flip side, criminal/civ members do pay for their equipment, but they own it personally, can use it to gain more equipment to own, while also using said equipment to make substantially more money per hour than gov faction members can.

The suggestion is well thought out, but I do not think it makes any sense in a serious RP server.

 

[Harley]

I'd like to reflect on my original post and refer to the fact that I in no way suggested this as a "PD Nerf" or a "Crim Buff" - Simply just a change in how equipment is treated and handled in ECRP to be less "Spawn whatever you want whenever you want" and more "Buy what you'd like to take out today, and treat your equipment as if it were you own" which is much more similar to how Law Enforcement agencies expect their officers to treat their equipment. I'll now address some of your comments to hopefully clear up how this would go.

1 hour ago, Victor Einhart said:

game play incentive to pvp with LSPD

I also saw this as an issue at first. If you made cops bootable then why shouldn't I go smoke that random cop on the sidewalk for his gun? But then I looked at the bigger picture. Police never leave themselves vulnerable, especially with a firearm in their hands that they could lose. So simply put, if your weapon is unracked, you should be less leniant with criminals. If you've got a whole scene with heavy weaponry out and vulnerable to be stolen, you should be on high alert. Someone looks like a threat, they should be dealt with.

Then you look at the server rules. The rules do not allow me to randomly PvP some guy in his car at LifeInvader because he has a gun. There has to be escalation. Nothing would be different here. If I, a solo crim, want your carbine but have no reason to fight you, I should not get away with fighting you for just wanting that gun. It would be DM, Non-RP, etc etc.

Then finally, script wise. If I see Mr Einhart sat in his car alone in Grove Street, I assume because he's a big shooty shooty police man he probably has a carbine on him. I shoot him dead and get into his vehicle, I reach for his gun and OH NO his gun is locked in a weapon rack. I've killed a cop for nothing. I'm now wanted for Murder of a Gov and I got nothing out of it.

 

1 hour ago, Shimo said:

No. This would mean that LSEMS would also have to pay for their equipment which makes absolutely no sense.

This post was all about LEO, not LSEMS. I agree LSEMS shouldn't be buying their ambulances.

50 minutes ago, Requiem said:

bet there would be significantly more search warrants and raids if police equipment gets lost or stolen. 

Good! I mentioned above that illegally owning a Police issued weapon would come with much larger consequences. If someone's seen to have a police issued weapons, they're a cop killer or affiliated with one. Cops would 100% raid them at even the slightest chance of this being true. This would be one of many reasons crimes shouldn't be hunting cops for their guns, and if they do, they face the dire consequences.

47 minutes ago, MrSilky said:

Are you suggesting this is paid for out of their personal wallet, or the faction treasury?

Personal wallet. You're right, if it's treasury it means nothing. LEO factions will always have whatever they want/need because they are vital for the server.

In regards of ownership of their weapons, I don't think you've grasped the exact concept I've tried to explain here with ownership, so let me give you an example.

> Phillipe_Sanchez is Ass. Chief of police

> Phillipe Sanchez clocks on shift and heads to the armoury, accessing the shop

> Phillipe plans on going for a 9 hour shift, so preps for the worst. He buys:

Rifle w/ 8 Magazines
Pistol .50 w/ 10 Magazines
Taser w/ 8 Cartridges
and a parachute in case he drives like shit (As per usual)

> Each of these weapons are now registered under Phillipe_Sanchez. Therefore everything to do with the weapon is on him. 2 weeks later he logs on and checks out his weapons, they're in pretty bad wear, he's been using each of them for 2 weeks straight, so they're in need of a bit of a clean.

>Phillipe cleans the weapons and maintains them, as it's his responsibility to keep his weapons in good condition.

Because Phillipe has looked after his weapons and has been smart with how he acts on shift, he's not lost his weapons, and he's not let them get damaged, therefore he's not had to spend any money on his equipment for a whole 2 weeks! He's been able to gain his salary every day, with no expenses to himself for this whole 2 weeks.

55 minutes ago, MrSilky said:

goes home with a sense of achievement but no "loot".

Because Mr Sanchez has been careful and smart with his decisions, he's gone home with 2 weeks of salary with ZERO expenses, giving him $500,000 in a salary. That is his "loot"

 

Now, lets look at Mr Jaxon Nash. He's the same rank, he takes out the same equipment as Mr Sanchez because he's a big fan and loves to copy what he does. However, Mr Nash is a bit of a W cop. He went into a Fleeca bank alone, and in doing so got smoked, laid on his back, "clapped". He wakes up at pillbox, confused, dizzy, and weaponless (sadge). He limps his way back to Mission Row, and does the walk of shame back to the weaponry, purchasing all of his equipment once again, shame on him.

He does the same amount of hours as Mr Sanchez, but because he made dumb decisions, he goes home with a salary of $250,000, because the rest of it he's had to spend on equipment, because he was very silly and lost all his shit.

 

Of course, all of this was fictional, and not reflective of the actual player, but I hope you can see my point here. This incentivises police to be smart, to look after their stuff, and they go home with "loot" (an untapped salary with no expenses) if they're smart.

1 hour ago, MrSilky said:

but I do not think it makes any sense in a serious RP server.

While I appreciate this point, I actually disagree entirely. Police having unlimited weapons, ammo, armour and spikes with the flick of a wrist seems to make less sense to me in a serious RP environment.

 

I appreciate everyone who's given input on here. And honestly before I experienced this exact idea elsewhere I had the same ideology, yet experiencing buying equipment, cruisers, etc elsewhere has completely changed my mind, and I think it would yours too.

[Shimo]

36 minutes ago, Harley said:

This post was all about LEO, not LSEMS. I agree LSEMS shouldn't be buying their ambulances.

LSEMS and LEOs are all government factions. You can't expect one government faction to pay for their equipment and not the others.

[Harley]

1 minute ago, Shimo said:

LSEMS and LEOs are all government factions. You can't expect one government faction to pay for their equipment and not the others.

Okay but LSEMS don't have equipment to purchase. You have /cpr and an ambulance. This thread is talking about buying equipment and weapons

[PrexDal]

Oh absolutely, spawning all your gear from a magical /fl menu with zero effort is the pinnacle of immersive RP. Nothing gets me into character like materializing a full loadout from thin air, followed by two obligatory "grabs equipment from locker" /me’s that have all the emotional depth of a DMV line.

Because of course, real officers just walk into a station, think really hard about what they want, and boom — fully equipped cruiser, weapon rack included. Totally authentic.

Why bother with actual logistics, responsibility, or inventory management when you can just respawn a new shotgun every time you log in? And the best part — there's zero consequence for losing or misusing anything. Accountability? Immersion? Nah, who needs that when /fl gives you infinite freebies like a law enforcement loot crate.

Honestly, the idea of LEOs needing to maintain, purchase, or even remember their gear sounds dangerously close to roleplay. Let’s not go overboard now.

 

(also I wasn't spamming Hector2Finger, I was stating my opinion. I thought I had the free will to speak, Stop deleting my comments. thank you)

[Demonmit1]

Quote

I think all due respect to you or any one else wanting this to be a thing.
The perception by the same people wanting this, of PD and SD is that we're try hards and we'll do anything to 'win' a situation.

Fuck the "realism" argument for a minute. Fuck the "it's a game" argument as well.

Let me ask you, with all seriousness and honesty, do you think that PD and SD would be more or less likely to try and do anything to win a situation, if those are the stakes?

Combine that mentality with a faction that doesn't have limitations on the amount of people it can hire, combine that with a faction that has access to some pretty high powered vehicles and weapons and combine that with a faction that gets shot at on a daily basis and trains against that. 

Are you REALLY sure that is the sort of Police Department you want to encourage?

We are not the same kind of faction. Our roles and our objectives are completely different. So, why are we comparing?

I speak for myself when I say this but if we go that way, either I'm doing absolutely nothing to put myself in harm's way or I'm saying fuck the roleplay and making sure you have as little to no chance to do anything like that.  The problem with adding those kind of consequences to losing for PD/SD, is that our objectives and mentality inevitably changes.

Trust me, you might think you want it but you don't.

Quoted from @Bala on my previous recommendation for cops to have to spend money on their equipment and then be lootable. 

 

I responded to it then somewhat agreeing, and the core concept of his response then still makes sense. If LEO is expected to pay for their equipment, and become lootable, the mindset will change to encourage a play to win mentality cause now LEO has something to lose other than time and being excluded from the rp due to not.

 

Just for some added context, a death on my LEO costs 25k~ out of pocket. While it doesn't match that of someone with a heavy + AP, there are quite a few of us that still have a notable loss on death 

 

 

Edited July 22, 2025 by Demonmit1

[Harley]

I wholeheartedly agree that if the server became a PvP mentality against PD just to get their weapons (Which I have highlighted why this shouldn't happen) then the loot-able part of this suggestion isn't needed. The rest still makes sense, and I can tell you from experience, makes for a better environment. More RP, more ownership, more sensibility

[PrexDal]

1 minute ago, Demonmit1 said:

I responded to it then somewhat agreeing, and the core concept of his response then still makes sense. If LEO is expected to pay for their equipment, and become lootable, the mindset will change to encourage a play to win mentality cause now LEO has something to lose other than time and being excluded from the rp due to not.

 

The play to win mentality is already there, this just makes them think twice before hopping out on 5 dudes with heavies and armour solo.

[Eden_28]

+1
I strongly believe this will encourage more rp mentality for LEO's, whilst there is a claim that people rp to take guns out of their locker I have never once in my time playing crim or LEO seen another LEO roleplay changing/swapping their guns and most of the time they just do it without any form of rp. There are multiple reasons why I don't think this allows for a 'PVP mentality' and those are the following;
1. As a crim main I would never in my right mind want to fight a cop/leo just because of the drama and time following it, I'd personally only fight a cop if I had a reason to and it wouldnt be for a gun when I could get a shipment every day of the week for something most likely better and more suited to me and my gameplay. 
2. I have been on the LEO side of things before (SD and DOC) and I strongly believe that we need to roleplay more as a community, it's not just putting someone in cuffs after shooting their tires it's about details. There's so much that goes into being a cop in real life that we exclude from the game out of fear of the process being too unentertaining or realistic which is understandable however I feel as though BASIC tasks such as cleaning your gun, handing your gun in/out at the end of the day (Adding to Harley's point here) and having to maintain and take responsibility for that gun should be a basic necessity not a quick /me pulls out a Pump Shotgun from the boot, fully loading it and preparing it for combat.
And my final point I'd like to make
3. We always complain about PVP mentality however there is literally a rule against it now which makes it even less encouraging for this simple change to become about PVP, as a member of this community for many years I'd like to see more changes to make gameplay more about ROLEPLAY then for it to be about hot-keys and shouting at eachother.
With all that said I personally think the idea should be considered and thought about more thoroughly even if some of the point's Harley has made in this post get altered to better suit the community.

[Demonmit1]

54 minutes ago, PrexDal said:

 

The play to win mentality is already there, this just makes them think twice before hopping out on 5 dudes with heavies and armour solo.

At the end of the day, it's a videogame people play to have fun, and winning more often than losing is typically more fun for people. Law enforcement have a completely different goal and mindset due to not relying on asset based gameplay. 

 

So, what would be the end goal here to have law enforcement pay for their own equipment? To make it fair, that if crims have to pay for their stuff, Cop should too?

 

Let's talk about item ownership then. Civ/crims own their assets, their cars, their guns, etc. They can chose what they want to do with it, buy whatever they want, use whatever they want, and are unrestricted on what they can use as long as they can afford it. I can get a brand new character, go cook drugs for 2 hours, and buy a light machine gun and use it as I please.

Cops don't own their equipment, it's owned by the department, which regulates access and has strict rules on who can use what, when, where, and why. A cop doesn't have free will to use government equipment as they please, and "unlocking" access to better gear takes hundreds of hours, months of progression, training/certification, and getting accepted into specialty divisions.

I've been in SD for 8 months will over 1000 hours, and I still don't have permission to use a rifle without very specific circumstances, like a code 1 officers getting shot at or downed. Any idiot can go buy an AK from Lost for a few hours of making money.

 

That's what differentiates the gameplay loop of LEO vs Crim. Cops can't do whatever they want whenever they want with whatever gear they want to spawn in with their faction loadout 

 

So how do you balance it? As a crim/civ, make use of the systems already in place, like internal affairs and ooc roleplay feedback if you feel an officer has overstepped their role, broken the force continuum, or done something wrong, report it to internal affairs. While I've played characters that go after Leo IA and complain about corruption, IA is genuinely effective and the best way for you as a player to affect a LEO who has done you wrong or you don't like. People get held back on promotion for konths, have certifications removed, get suspended and are not even allowed to play, and are sometimes just straight up barred from joining special divisions that give you access to higher tier equipment. There is a lot in the original post about expecting lies to do all this extra work to prep to deploy, but 99% of crims are unwilling to hold themselves to the same standards, or even bother filling out a very simple IA report. 

Edited July 22, 2025 by Demonmit1

[CalvinKlein]

This is an amazing suggestion, big +1.

Many of the people disagreeing you'll find agreeing with anything to do with improving realism for "crims" but not the other way around, having 2 shot tazer was a good way to start, a system like this, maybe with vehicles too is amazing.

Rn you go 240, crash into a wall, drive /delcruiser, spawn a new one

[SquirtleSquad]

2 hours ago, Harley said:

Okay but LSEMS don't have equipment to purchase. You have /cpr and an ambulance. This thread is talking about buying equipment and weapons

Actually, LSEMS does have equipment to spawn, and equipment that we use on the daily. For example, many of us have a Pistol .50, we use fire extinguishers, flashlights, bolt cutters, radios. However, as this is more centered around LEO's this would most likely have to affect all GOV factions.

To add onto what others have said, unfortunately this would positively promote a more PVP mentality of looking for means to gain DM rights, as the intention most likely being to gain officer loot. Times in which you are not on, dubbed Demon Hours, there are a mass amount of Code 1's that are called in requiring joint efforts from PD and SD, and several of those times, LEO's are getting wiped clean. This would then cause those night players doing their faction duties to end up net negative due to having to either not make hours as they don't want to re-buy equipment, or just lose money due to having to re-buy said equipment.

Unfortunately, I just don't seem a world where this could work and balance out correctly.

[SirQubed]

3 hours ago, Harley said:

Now, lets look at Mr Jaxon Nash. He's the same rank, he takes out the same equipment as Mr Sanchez because he's a big fan and loves to copy what he does. However, Mr Nash is a bit of a W cop. He went into a Fleeca bank alone, and in doing so got smoked, laid on his back, "clapped". He wakes up at pillbox, confused, dizzy, and weaponless (sadge). He limps his way back to Mission Row, and does the walk of shame back to the weaponry, purchasing all of his equipment once again, shame on him.

I love a good fiction. Thanks for the mention in your novel. I've always wanted to be a W cop. Did you have a good sleep when you were dreaming of capping me  

[Jokl]

This is, and will always be a pvp/cop vs. crim/loot focused/meta focused server...

To even think that people will not shoot cops for their loot is just being naive..to the 4-5 units that can only play night shift (utc), cant roam around with anything else than a baton in fair of going in debt, since groups robs ATM's and small stores with heavies 7-10 people...

There is already groups that in the morning hrs, dont care at all, drives around with heavies on their back like its nothing, since they know they are 3 times as deep as cops. Add the option to loot cops into that, it wont be fun being a cop that cant afford to do your job anymore. 

At the end of the game its a video game, where people come to disconnect from the real world, to hang around with people they like and have fun. I do the RP of getting what I need when I clock on...do i find it fun after 2 years of being a cop? no..

Its always gona be an argument, where crims hate how "easy" it is to be a cop, since its free...been there guys. But also the same people play in a dumb way where they expect to take on a fight with LSPD, and win..that is absurd...shoot a cop down and get a gap to get away? Sure! To be able to kill the whole LSPD? come on...

 

You also have people that need the money they make for other RP opportunities, loan companies, store owners, dealership owners and so on. 

-1