Changes to Air 1 (Helicopters) Possible Opening of the Underground Passages

[DrBeelz]

So I've noticed a trend every time I've got into a chase which is only 7 times with the law enforcement in this city and the most recent 3 chases made me want to suggest changes to Air 1 or open up the underground tunnels and not have them blocked off. As mentioned before in the last 3 chases I only got caught because I ran out of fuel I drive an Issi Sport and it is extremely good on all 3 chases with the car I have lost sight of the cops 10+ times but because of Air 1 they always seem to find me I've tried using bridges to lose sight of Air 1 but I can never seem to lose Air 1 and therefore I feel I shouldn't have to lose just because of a fuel tank, multiple times I had enough distance to refuel but as of the NRP rule I cant do that so its just a matter of time before I'm caught from running out of fuel. I was talking to an officer IC and he told me that an Air 1 fuel tank is better than every car in the city and so I know I cant just wait it out and so here are my suggested changes. please can the underground of the city be reopened as all the small tunnels in the city are too small and it is easy for Air1 to track where I will be in the tunnels or a change to the Fuel tank of Air 1 as out driving the police many times just isn't good enough as ill eventually run out of fuel I feel law enforcement can make unlimited mistakes while driving and I only have to make one and if the chase takes an hour till my tank runs empty and I haven't made a single mistake which is no easy task I shouldn't feel like it's just all heading one way anyway like all my good driving don't lead anywhere its not like my fuel tank can beat the law enforcement vehicles as they can break off individually to refuel and re-join the chase. thank you for taking the time to read this I love chases and racing in general but I would just like to see possible ways to escape and be rewarded for good driving  

[Viiperz]

-1, but for a couple of reasons.

For starters I'll address my main issues with the tunnel system and the clip that everyone has probably seen by now:

https://streamable.com/mo676s

This clip is from myself, a member of the LSPD faction, and quite frankly the fact that anyone can just be shot down and scriptly injured before they even know they're being shot at is ridiculous. If you watch the footage closely you will see that not only do you not hear a single shot until I'm down and everything re-syncs, but that my health bar also appears full until the final shot is taken.

 

Now, before the "this was a buff to PD and isn't fair comments start" I'd also like to share another piece of footage from that pursuit that should make people see this in a different light:

https://streamable.com/hqftpv

In this clip, while the driver of the Jugular is able to see the tunnels correctly, all I am able to see is the evading vehicle. At this point, I could have used the bug to my advantage and gave accurate callouts on the direction of travel thus ensuring successful apprehension of the suspect vehicle. 

Now, both of the issue demonstrated can work both ways and in my opinion, use of the tunnels should be seen as borderline bug abuse - because of the issues demonstrated above.

 

As for reducing the size of AIR-1's fuel tank, I'm not really sure what to tell you other than is is very much possibly to lose a helicopter without resorting to the tunnels. This is something that I myself and countless other before and after will continue to do on a near daily basis. There are an absolute multitude of factors that come into play when you are trying to successfully evade. I'd recommend maybe taking a different approach or getting more creative with the ways you are attempting your escape, it can be done.

[DrBeelz]

Ah I see the reason maybe why the tunnels were blocked off if this problem persists I get it but if this bug can be fixed I would love if the tunnels to be opened again.  Although there is only 3 exits out the tunnels it can give a chance for the evading party to lose Air 1 temporarily as I do struggle losing Air 1 I might just be bad at doing so but I do feel like its extremely hard, just want to know everyone's thoughts on this. I watch NoPixel all the time as its the biggest RP server going and there's a lot more tactics both sides that go into a chase and one of the strategies is for the evading party to survive long enough before Air 1 runs out of fuel and then so it becomes a race to then take more risky driving to lose the cops before Air 1 returns after refuelling like it creates more tension for both sides instead of the police not having to worry too much as if they lose the suspect they can just use Air 1 for the entire chase and don't have that pressure that if they lose the evading party when Air 1 needs to refuel they will lose the evading party so I think it can make chase scenarios better for everyone as a whole. when I look at things in the game I don't just side with one group I like to submit suggestions to improve everyone RP. 

 

Edited January 2, 2022 by Victor Thompson

[Dirty Mike]

What if the Tunnels were to be reopened with the hardfast rule that they are to be used for escaping only and any use of weapons would need to stop once entering the in the tunnels and not resume until you exit ?

[Asiantator]

IIRC Tunnels were closed off due to the fact upon leaving the tunnels, players and vehicles can become invisible, thus rendering an advantage. I do not know if this has been corrected or not.

 

As a Pilot however, I cannot give you an exact statistic but I would have to say it is close to damn near 50% of chases with Issi Sports we lose the suspect. There are a multitude of ways that evaders are able to get away without resorting to the underground.

[alexalex303]

The tunnels were some of the buggiest places in the server. The fact that they were finally closed after years is great for everyone. 

Bugs aside, how often would people drive on rail tracks in LA? Or see them bring a high performance motorbike in a subway system?

Not very often. It's much more realistic this way.

[Destuin]

7 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

The tunnels were some of the buggiest places in the server. The fact that they were finally closed after years is great for everyone. 

Bugs aside, how often would people drive on rail tracks in LA? Or see them bring a high performance motorbike in a subway system?

Not very often. It's much more realistic this way.

You can't just pick and choose when you want to follow realism or not! Oh look its convenient for you with your argument here, but you are opposed to the 100's of police restrictions which are involved around realistic practices. 

The only problem I see with air-1 these days is it used to be an exclusive list of people who could pilot it, so it was often not available. Now days it seems like there are way too many trained pilots and they are able to get it out basically all times. I will often see on the department radio that both choppers are currently active xD. The tunnel's should stay shut for sure, dev's said they were working on making it less laggy, but who knows. 

[alexalex303]

32 minutes ago, Destuin said:

You can't just pick and choose when you want to follow realism or not! Oh look its convenient for you with your argument here, but you are opposed to the 100's of police restrictions which are involved around realistic practices. 

The only problem I see with air-1 these days is it used to be an exclusive list of people who could pilot it, so it was often not available. Now days it seems like there are way too many trained pilots and they are able to get it out basically all times. I will often see on the department radio that both choppers are currently active xD. The tunnel's should stay shut for sure, dev's said they were working on making it less laggy, but who knows. 

It was my understanding that the whole server is moving in a more realistic direction. The issue is that law enforcement is realistically overpowered. Not a single gang will successfully fight police in a realistic setting. A lot of concessions are made daily for the purposes of the game. I am not a stranger to indulging NonRP for gameplay, however, the tunnels were literally people taking advantage of desync and literally just used for evading (bar the one gang that sat there sometimes).

If we're going to talk about the "realistic" suggestions that would bring a huge amount of unrealistic roleplay such as being able to loot law enforcement heavy weapons or sniper rifles, then yeah, I am selective about that, and I hope that you can see why.

The tunnel system brought nothing of value and shouldn't come back.

[Harveyyy]

Bridges bridges bridges! Just lose ground units and go underneath a bridge and outsmart AIR-1. I personally done it many times and it works, just have to be smart about it and find the right timing. 

[Sico]

On 2/9/2022 at 2:02 PM, alexalex303 said:

Bugs aside, how often would people drive on rail tracks in LA? Or see them bring a high performance motorbike in a subway system?

Not very often. It's much more realistic this way.

Speaking realistically, I don't think PD in LA would be driving sport bikes like Shinobi, or even high speed cars such as the 8f drafter. I do understand that the tunnels are full of bugs but then we might need to remove some other stuff to make it fair for the felony evaders aswell. Personally I think that 80% of the felony evasions people get caught cus of PD's super fast cars that can keep up most of the times and if they lose u then you have a guaranteed Air-1 above you.

[Jett_J]

I think someone asked about refueling during pursuits and I believe a Senior Mod clarified if you have lost the cops, you can refuel. 

Apparently this rule was created because back then you could refuel while sitting in your car.

That refueling during a pursuit rule is out-of-date. I'm not a staff member though so feel free to correct me

Edited March 18, 2022 by Jett_J

[Freclan]

On 2/9/2022 at 1:12 PM, Destuin said:

Now days it seems like there are way too many trained pilots and they are able to get it out basically all times.

working as intended then

[xMysticZx]

I don't know where I stand for this suggestion, I've read reasons for both sides and to be honest I support both.

First of all I personally do not think the tunnels should be re-opened UNLESS the bugs that remain there can be fixed, however that being said I support the fact that air 1 just seems Impossible to evade from, like I cant recall the amount of chases I've been In that's lasted for 10, 20 mins, after BF set ups, losing cruisers, yet the Heli seems impossible to shake off no matter what Bridge I go under, or mini tunnels, or anything. Now I am not saying remove helis or anything mad like that, Its a realistic tool police use IRL to fight and stop crime, however I agree with others In the fact that before hand, where only a certain amount of police officers could use heli's was fair, or that they would only really get air 1 out for major scenarios.

I do disagree with police getting Air 1 out for every little thing. An example of this off the top of my head Is when I got pulled over weeks ago for something as silly as unpaid tickets. I had 5 or 6 cruisers pull up behind me, a police sports shinobi, a BF400, and Air 1. Now the sound of that to my ears doesn't seem fair what so ever, Its limiting our overall choices and RP freedom as crims and It very much ALWAYS ending up In the police's favor ... We In DOC for hours on end. I'm not even going to touch on Police being able to obtain vehicles such as supers / sports cars or sports bikes. 

I enjoyed chases back In the day where we actually stood a fair chance of escaping custody successfully, which by the way Is a big enough challenge alone when you have Shinobi's and Bf400's and other sports related vehicles. And I know many more would agree with me on this. I believe It was better back In the day where you rarely saw Air 1, due to the fact that limited police could take it out or was trained. As it really does not make sense that the majority of PD can take out a Heli.   

[RAttlesnake7473]

-1 although the tunnels were nice in the past, it's so easy to just gain a bit of space from ground units, then go under multiple stacking bridges or offramps where air-1 is unable to see you either on foot or vehicle.

[ArcAngel]

This really isn't a viable option at the moment. I wouldn't be apposed really if there was a fix for the underground invisibility bug. 
You also have to consider realism, you can imagine if trains were actually running?

The simple solution is to be better at evading. I fly the helicopter 7/10 times when its up. There are about 4-5 people i could name that i genuinely know will be able to evade from me. They drive the following vehicles; Jugular, Issi Sport, Hakuchou Drag, BF400, Shinobi.

They aren't the best performative vehicles, its the driver.

[ArcAngel]

On 3/18/2022 at 9:59 PM, xMysticZx said:

I do disagree with police getting Air 1 out for every little thing. An example of this off the top of my head Is when I got pulled over weeks ago for something as silly as unpaid tickets. I had 5 or 6 cruisers pull up behind me, a police sports shinobi, a BF400, and Air 1. Now the sound of that to my ears doesn't seem fair what so ever, Its limiting our overall choices and RP freedom as crims and It very much ALWAYS ending up In the police's favor ... We In DOC for hours on end. I'm not even going to touch on Police being able to obtain vehicles such as supers / sports cars or sports bikes. 

There is IC protocol for this. In real life 9/10 times there is an air unit on standby, it just cost a lot of money to take off. There is only so many time someone can blame police officers for not getting away. There are IC choices and decisions made and the outcome depends upon the person.
I'm a HUGE advocate for making this game fair for ALL parties. Contrary to popular belief, criminals do get away in real life. I try to remind everyone i play with about this fact.
There are also IC protocols to prevent the 5-6 cruisers on a misdemeanour etc.

[Praetorian]

+1 Nerf heli fuel tanks.

[Jorden Sperry]

On 3/18/2022 at 9:12 AM, Sico said:

Speaking realistically, I don't think PD in LA would be driving sport bikes like Shinobi, or even high speed cars such as the 8f drafter. I do understand that the tunnels are full of bugs but then we might need to remove some other stuff to make it fair for the felony evaders aswell. Personally I think that 80% of the felony evasions people get caught cus of PD's super-fast cars that can keep up most of the times and if they lose u then you have a guaranteed Air-1 above you.

well said, if we are going off realism, have you guys ever seen a police sports car in your area in real life before? More than likely the answer is no, although it's possible, I don't think any of us ever seen one, or multiple in our lifetimes. I am heavy on getting rid of the police shinobi, I've never been pulled over by a sports bike a day in my life, pretty sure the department near me doesn't have one as well. It's quite overpowering, if you ask me. Most units I've seen at a normal traffic stop was 3, I could see if you were wanted and such and PD has decided to go all out and get everything they got in their arsenal to arrest you, but that's about it. I believe there should be some limit for these traffic stops, there should be a fair number of units that can respond to a traffic stop or chase depending on the level of the situation to make it somewhat fairer.  30 units on a chase is so overkill tbh. Even if we may be going off realism, we must take into account what's fair and enjoyable for other parties. PD obviously has more players than criminals so, all of the high-speed vehicles and buffs are useless in my opinion, gonna be challenging to getaway as is, that is just my take though, big +1.

Edited June 29, 2022 by Jorden Sperry

[Requiem]

On 6/28/2022 at 11:19 PM, Jorden Sperry said:

well said, if we are going off realism, have you guys ever seen a police sports car in your area in real life before? More than likely the answer is no, although it's possible, I don't think any of us ever seen one, or multiple in our lifetimes. I am heavy on getting rid of the police shinobi, I've never been pulled over by a sports bike a day in my life, pretty sure the department near me doesn't have one as well. It's quite overpowering, if you ask me. Most units I've seen at a normal traffic stop was 3, I could see if you were wanted and such and PD has decided to go all out and get everything they got in their arsenal to arrest you, but that's about it. I believe there should be some limit for these traffic stops, there should be a fair number of units that can respond to a traffic stop or chase depending on the level of the situation to make it somewhat fairer.  30 units on a chase is so overkill tbh. Even if we may be going off realism, we must take into account what's fair and enjoyable for other parties. PD obviously has more players than criminals so, all of the high-speed vehicles and buffs are useless in my opinion, gonna be challenging to getaway as is, that is just my take though, big +1.

If you would like one side to go off realism, then the other side should to for consistency. You ever see an entire city of people ignore all traffic lights/laws, all drive sports cars/bikes and consistently drive 200+ everywhere they go? More than likely the answer is no. Law enforcement is not a proactive faction, they are reactive. If every criminal they come up against is evading on a high speed motorcycle or sports car, PD works with the government to obtain one to deal with them, as they cannot just let the criminals do whatever they please. 

As for your comment regarding the number of units at a traffic stop or pursuit, that is all dictated by IC protocols within PD. If PD pulls someone over that tends to evade 90% of the time, then we make sure to get multiple backup units and the appropriate response vehicles to deal with it. As I said, its reactionary response. If someone that PD has never seen before gets pulled over and they have a fairly clean record, then no backup is asked for. 

I agree it should be fair for both sides as well. But do you think its fun for PD to see criminals drive by going 200+ in the city on drags/shinobis non-stop and have 0 chance to do anything about it? Deployment of the high speed resources is strictly limited for a reason. PD cannot just patrol around in a high speed car or bike for no reason.

Lastly, to your original point about realism...do you think it would be realistic for criminals to be stronger than law enforcement? Have the whole city run by gangs and PD would be powerless to stop them because they have less firepower, less resources, less equipment? Its not realistic in any sense to have criminals overtake the city and to just have it fall and burn because law enforcement cannot do anything about it.

[Thommy]

On 3/18/2022 at 8:12 PM, Sico said:

Speaking realistically, I don't think PD in LA would be driving sport bikes like Shinobi, or even high speed cars such as the 8f drafter. I do understand that the tunnels are full of bugs but then we might need to remove some other stuff to make it fair for the felony evaders aswell. Personally I think that 80% of the felony evasions people get caught cus of PD's super fast cars that can keep up most of the times and if they lose u then you have a guaranteed Air-1 above you.

On 6/29/2022 at 10:19 AM, Jorden Sperry said:

well said, if we are going off realism, have you guys ever seen a police sports car in your area in real life before? More than likely the answer is no, although it's possible, I don't think any of us ever seen one, or multiple in our lifetimes. I am heavy on getting rid of the police shinobi, I've never been pulled over by a sports bike a day in my life, pretty sure the department near me doesn't have one as well. It's quite overpowering, if you ask me. Most units I've seen at a normal traffic stop was 3, I could see if you were wanted and such and PD has decided to go all out and get everything they got in their arsenal to arrest you, but that's about it. I believe there should be some limit for these traffic stops, there should be a fair number of units that can respond to a traffic stop or chase depending on the level of the situation to make it somewhat fairer.  30 units on a chase is so overkill tbh. Even if we may be going off realism, we must take into account what's fair and enjoyable for other parties. PD obviously has more players than criminals so, all of the high-speed vehicles and buffs are useless in my opinion, gonna be challenging to getaway as is, that is just my take though, big +1.

Why would PD need fast vehicles if it were not for criminals' poor character portrayals? What kind of criminals drive super and exotic cars? Even if you are in a crime organization, you would not really be drifting sport cars around in the city. Most of the times, a criminal is poor, that is why they are a criminal. So they should correctly portray their character doing so, and not just buy the fastest car with the play-to-win mentality to escape from cops.

If it wasn't for the meta as mentioned, PD would not need sport vehicles.

 

Secondly, the Los Angeles Police Department, which is the police department in a city we are portraying, has at least two helicopters up at a time for 20 hours a day. They are not only for emergency responses, but are a part of routine patrol. So do not be surprised when there is a helicopter while you are escaping from police. An airship is available at the officers' disposal. Every time there is a pursuit, they request 'backup and airship'. 

If you are good enough, you can escape from police even if there is an air unit. Having been a part of the Air Support Division of multiple roleplay servers, I can say that I've lost people before, even those driving the slowest car.

 

 

[DrBeelz]

so I've seen this post suggestion has gone massively off topic so I would like to return to it, I now understand that from 6 months of posting this thread that tunnels would not be able to be opened but my point with Air-1 stands I'm not going to state realism as that's not the way to go on a game where the whole point is to have fun as if not what's the point of gaming if your not having fun. Limiting the fuel tank is good for the server and for fun and fairness. as I've since had the pleasure of being in PD I love chases and feel the pressure not to crash, to not lose the driver and if he out drives me I congratulate them but I do feel like I'm cheating when I lose them multiple times but the chase lasts 30-40 minutes as I have constant updates where they are. Let me put this in an analogy, me and my friend are racing the garbage track it is super competitive its down to the second to last corner I take the corner badly but don't worry instead of him gaining distance I get a unfair advantage and get a boost to catch back up and take the last corner better than him and win the race. that's how I feel with Air-1 giving me 1 hr long comms as if it wasn't for that boost(air-1) I wouldn't have caught up and won the race(I would've lost the suspect and he would've got away)

I hope that made sense and what are your thoughts on that, the main part of this post is to limit the fuel tank for better tactics for LEO'S and fun for both sides. LEO's will still be powerful as they should be in the server but having this change will reward good driving and fair play for all.

Edited June 30, 2022 by DrBeelz

[ArcAngel]

I wouldn't be apposed to increasing fuel usage. IRL fuel costs a lot along with maintenance of the vehicle. Perhaps making it's usage similar to that of a Kamacho.

[Freclan]

2 hours ago, arcangel said:

Perhaps making it's usage similar to that of a Kamacho.

I am absolutely opposed to this, IRL helis like the LAPD uses can fly for 3 hours. Having the tank of a Kamacho severely limits what an on shift AIR unit can do, you have to consider that not only is the helicopter providing aerial support for pursuits but they also conduct patrols of their own and with a limited fuel tank this will severly disadvantage the AIR unit. As a long standing member of ASD I know countless people that have the ability to lose the heli, it's really not difficult if you know what you are doing. If a chase continues for an hour plus then I simply put it down to the driver not taking advantage of where the heli cannot see, and there are multiple places within the city that the heli cannot see with multiple exits.

 

Instead of blaming PD for your inability to lose the AIR unit why don't you look at your own driving and do better, because I've seen people that can drive well, and they can lose PD.

[Jorden Sperry]

9 hours ago, Thommy said:

Why would PD need fast vehicles if it were not for criminals' poor character portrayals? What kind of criminals drive super and exotic cars? Even if you are in a crime organization, you would not really be drifting sport cars around in the city. Most of the times, a criminal is poor, that is why they are a criminal. So they should correctly portray their character doing so, and not just buy the fastest car with the play-to-win mentality to escape from cops.

If it wasn't for the meta as mentioned, PD would not need sport vehicles.

 

Secondly, the Los Angeles Police Department, which is the police department in a city we are portraying, has at least two helicopters up at a time for 20 hours a day. They are not only for emergency responses, but are a part of routine patrol. So do not be surprised when there is a helicopter while you are escaping from police. An airship is available at the officers' disposal. Every time there is a pursuit, they request 'backup and airship'. 

If you are good enough, you can escape from police even if there is an air unit. Having been a part of the Air Support Division of multiple roleplay servers, I can say that I've lost people before, even those driving the slowest car.

 

 

 

9 hours ago, Thommy said:

Why would PD need fast vehicles if it were not for criminals' poor character portrayals? What kind of criminals drive super and exotic cars? Even if you are in a crime organization, you would not really be drifting sport cars around in the city. Most of the times, a criminal is poor, that is why they are a criminal. So they should correctly portray their character doing so, and not just buy the fastest car with the play-to-win mentality to escape from cops.

If it wasn't for the meta as mentioned, PD would not need sport vehicles.

 

Secondly, the Los Angeles Police Department, which is the police department in a city we are portraying, has at least two helicopters up at a time for 20 hours a day. They are not only for emergency responses, but are a part of routine patrol. So do not be surprised when there is a helicopter while you are escaping from police. An airship is available at the officers' disposal. Every time there is a pursuit, they request 'backup and airship'. 

If you are good enough, you can escape from police even if there is an air unit. Having been a part of the Air Support Division of multiple roleplay servers, I can say that I've lost people before, even those driving the slowest car.

 

 

That doesn't quite make sense, if you are a criminal, you're going to prepare yourself for success. Not drive a car you can't get out of sticky situations in, the whole point is to not get caught, it's not really a play to win mentality. If your pointing out a play to win mentality, then PD shouldn't be set up to win 90% of rp senarios. Most criminals earn money for these expensive vehicles after a LONG time of grinding to obtain them. I'd say it's fair to drive vehicles with such performance, when most PD vehicles reach 200+ on straights. There's honestly no need for high speed vehicle when you have 30-40 units trying to catch one person, that's just me though.

Edited June 30, 2022 by Jorden Sperry

[Jorden Sperry]

10 hours ago, Bill Breacher said:

If you would like one side to go off realism, then the other side should to for consistency. You ever see an entire city of people ignore all traffic lights/laws, all drive sports cars/bikes and consistently drive 200+ everywhere they go? More than likely the answer is no. Law enforcement is not a proactive faction, they are reactive. If every criminal they come up against is evading on a high speed motorcycle or sports car, PD works with the government to obtain one to deal with them, as they cannot just let the criminals do whatever they please. 

As for your comment regarding the number of units at a traffic stop or pursuit, that is all dictated by IC protocols within PD. If PD pulls someone over that tends to evade 90% of the time, then we make sure to get multiple backup units and the appropriate response vehicles to deal with it. As I said, its reactionary response. If someone that PD has never seen before gets pulled over and they have a fairly clean record, then no backup is asked for. 

I agree it should be fair for both sides as well. But do you think its fun for PD to see criminals drive by going 200+ in the city on drags/shinobis non-stop and have 0 chance to do anything about it? Deployment of the high speed resources is strictly limited for a reason. PD cannot just patrol around in a high speed car or bike for no reason.

Lastly, to your original point about realism...do you think it would be realistic for criminals to be stronger than law enforcement? Have the whole city run by gangs and PD would be powerless to stop them because they have less firepower, less resources, less equipment? Its not realistic in any sense to have criminals overtake the city and to just have it fall and burn because law enforcement cannot do anything about it.

Although some of this is correct, the response is often overkill, this is the reason why people evade before they are even pulled over, to avoid getting chased by 30 other units. It's not fun evading from 40 vehicles with air one either my friend. Just believe there should be some type of nerf to make things more balanced. "PD cannot just patrol around in a high-speed car or bike for no reason." The number of drafters and such I see on the side of the road says otherwise my friend. "do you think it would be realistic for criminals to be stronger than law enforcement?" I don't but, it's not quite realistic to have access to all these sports bikes, performance cars, and such as a police department, taxes don't even cover those expenses. All we are saying is, there should be a set balance that makes traffic stops and evasions fun for both parties, not one sided. Crims passages have been nerfed immensely, while it keeps getting easier and easier for PD to catch crims, it cannot be fun to constantly know you're going to catch someone in a chase due to the accessibility your department has.