DrBeelz

I have read through this post and the main reason I believe and through experience the reason crim RP isn't the best is the amount of gangs that over the course of 30 days somehow gets 20-40 members. and the lack of RP that they are willing to go through as they are forced to for the reason I'm about to talk about. now I know why gangs do this and it is simply because of the economy to have a lab you need close to 2 million and that will get you 48 tables and a place to do it in. Getting that money is hard to do now once you get there it is fine as long as you know how to operate a drug lab however getting to that point is quite difficult. The next best way is through banks and that is why banks are chained so often and are quite boring as crims will use the meta and just use bf400 or shinobis and quite easily escape, maybe 1 will get caught if you are unlucky. I've done quite a few banks and never got caught and that's with a car as I liked the challenge but if you run a 6-man crew each will only get like 25k it's not worth it. and so really you are left with the rest of what a crim can do which is roadworkers, or a high risk - low reward setup e.g., chop shops or running public labs. which unless you are an 8-man crew it is dangerous and 100% always turns into a robbery/shootout as that's all people do. that is low RP and I've never seen a random not be approached and it be none hostile as let's be honest it because everyone is struggling because it is hard to make money. and that's what I'm getting at with my first statement the gangs that have numbers always were hostile and never really engaged with RP because all they wanted was the easy robbery and to reiterate it is because of money as it is hard to come by. also, crims are very limited in creating RP due to how realistic the server is in relation to branching out to the legal side. you want a business to create RP sorry you have a felony record; you want to host a public event sorry police will shut it down because if you have a felony charge that is within a month you won't get PD or SD support and so you really can't publicise it as they will find where its hosted and shut it down. so safe to say giving RP to the community as a crim is impossible unless you don't do crime for a month which is boring as a crim main. I really did try and do business with most gangs in the city but every time they find a way to be hostile and it ends up ruined. while in a gang I saw close to 15 different gangs disband some lasted 1 month some last 3 months and that because all they did was shoot anyone and so reports finally caught up to them as if you engage in PVP every day you are bound to make mistakes, all RP I've seen in gangs is only kept to the gang and no other gangs. I know it happens but not enough but even then, most alliances break down as all it takes for 1 member to shoot the wrong person and then it's a war. Just to point out all my points are what I've seen over a year of playing crim and no gang in particular I am referencing. I have had the pleasure to work with some gangs that have kept a really good RP standard and I respect that, but I got to admit I think the biggest issue is money and the lack of RP that comes with it for certain gangs to make a quick buck. this is why I have moved to be a PD main now as it so much less stressful but as I was a crim main for a long time, I understand both sides and I think hopefully this can limit the amount of LEO vs crim debates that happen because I think a lot of energy is going into tackling the wrong issues not everything LEO's do is perfect and I also support some points against some things said against LEO's but that is not what I think is the biggest issue to fix the current crim issue.

the biggest issue is official gangs are no longer reliant on others to get their imports in and so they have no need to keep alliances, there is official gangs in the city right now that are making actual rp impossible for gangs that are smaller. for example one of the faction gangs I wont say who is stopping us from using a car wash that is not scripted but we use /me's to rp getting all the gang members cars washed, you know something different from being a clapper and guess what every time we go there they say you cant come here leave or die and if we don't leave they kill us. its what crim rp has come to and if you talk to them to understand why, they are a broken record and say the same thing over and over like all they know is ive got more members do as we say or we will have dm rights as you didnt comply its sloppy rp. You try and do something other than start unnecessary beef and kill people and you just get shot down for doing so. Even if you try and meet other gangs instead of going to meetings in good faith they just bring all heavy weapons showing they have no interest in forming deals. this might be different from a big gang to big gang as wars are not going to end well for either side but god forbid you are a smaller gang meeting up with a big gang you are just an easy target to get all their weapons and shave their head just because you have more members and you can boast about it on youtube or in the forums. its bad rp and its what crim rp is right now. you try and run a chop you get raided by big gangs you try and do a bank you get 15k in charges and 5 hours if you dont have 1.3 million guess what you cant have a property. once youve got a property you need 400-500k in tables and that if all you drops dont get comped. like damn ive have a gang try and start beef because they killed our members at labs thats the escalation that some people take as enough to start wars.

Honestly after I joined PD it was so freeing I didn't have to worry about money everything was good, I love chases and it opened up more avenues for me to get creative with RP. With my criminal character I also create good RP with people but it is more difficult to occur as everyone in other gangs always want to stay in their own gangs and not RP with other gangs and very little want to create new RP. and as said gang will attack and rob you for petty reasons and currently im dealing with that exact thing on a daily basis these are just a few reasons I created a PD character as late at night when I just want to chill and have fun I log on to my PD character. I wouldn't go full time PD as I have a gang to manage and its no easy task but as I said PD is my escape.

As I said I'm not against it, just think can it be done and is it an easy change to do? I don't know as I know nothing about coding a server so rewriting the whole faction loadout might be a lot of work but going back to what I said I'm not against it but is there something better that we can improve like spending more time focusing making DOC a better place to be and the reduce time suggestion I made.

This is my perspective from a Crim and PD side as I play both on two different characters. My view on this is that PD aren't really supposed to be beaten. Now for the the longest time I thought that needed to change but the way I see it is that if the LEO's were the same as any other person no-one would fear PD they would just kill them on sight and be done with it. This would be bad as I don't think criminals should run a city and if LEO's were the same as any other person that's what would happen. I know the criminal life is expensive and hard to earn money and having Ak's and body armour is only if you are going to war as its so expensive and crippling if you lose it. I know its not hard to make money in PD it is so fun and the hours fly by thanks to criminals giving us RP and so at the end of the week the money just rolls in so I'm personally not against having LEO's pay for their belonging but I don't think that would solve much. I am yet to be downed as an officer and I only have used a 50. and most of my time I've still got 50% health left so it wouldn't break the bank. but as I said previous what would it solve. As when I'm evading on my crim when I'm facing 3-4+ hours in DOC I'm not thinking at least that cop I killed has to pay for their items. now the biggest thing is this would require a change only the developers can do as you have to get rid of the faction loadout and so it is really worth changing that other than more important things. I don't disagree with your statement I think crim RP helps LEO'S have fun RP and being locked away for 3-4+ hours isn't good. However, if you see something that needs to change just saying it needs to change wont solve anything the best thing to do is have a suggestion on how to make it better. Here is a thread about making suggestions about DOC and I think it is the best place for suggestions. What I would love is have DOC guards have control to reduce times in prison for doing RP jobs around the prison and so it would actually make your time quicker and supply RP to everyone involved.

Would you change your mind on this change if the rules specify you cannot rob LEO's in public or on traffic stops as if they evade to then lure them into a not so public area then backup would already be called if not already and then most likely the crims would be outnumbered, would that change your mind on the topic?

so I've seen this post suggestion has gone massively off topic so I would like to return to it, I now understand that from 6 months of posting this thread that tunnels would not be able to be opened but my point with Air-1 stands I'm not going to state realism as that's not the way to go on a game where the whole point is to have fun as if not what's the point of gaming if your not having fun. Limiting the fuel tank is good for the server and for fun and fairness. as I've since had the pleasure of being in PD I love chases and feel the pressure not to crash, to not lose the driver and if he out drives me I congratulate them but I do feel like I'm cheating when I lose them multiple times but the chase lasts 30-40 minutes as I have constant updates where they are. Let me put this in an analogy, me and my friend are racing the garbage track it is super competitive its down to the second to last corner I take the corner badly but don't worry instead of him gaining distance I get a unfair advantage and get a boost to catch back up and take the last corner better than him and win the race. that's how I feel with Air-1 giving me 1 hr long comms as if it wasn't for that boost(air-1) I wouldn't have caught up and won the race(I would've lost the suspect and he would've got away) I hope that made sense and what are your thoughts on that, the main part of this post is to limit the fuel tank for better tactics for LEO'S and fun for both sides. LEO's will still be powerful as they should be in the server but having this change will reward good driving and fair play for all.

+1 As a person with both a crim and cop character I think this would be a good idea, I get that concerns arise with cops would be able to be robbed and that they might get hunted but rules are already implement that would stop that so I'm not worried about that as stated the current rules do specify that LEO'S or people cant be robbed in public places even if taken to an alleyway as Melody Frey said the risk would not be worth it Another thing I agree on is that there could even be extreme IC punishments for people in possession of LEO firearms/body armour and I support this as it would make people cautious with the risk of carrying a technically free AR or shotgun and will make a risk to reward in using the firepower to get a upper hand in the consequence of being caught and going in for serious time. it would make people think more about their actions. my one question is would having body armour and AR's robbable from LEO's take away from imported items and decrease the feature just a thought.

+1

As you can see hitting money trucks is something that is already implemented into the game since it launched, I remember when I first bought the game on release date I would love to see money trucks and as it is already implemented into the game I think this is do-able. there's 2 ways I see how this could work in ECRP one you have a simple copy and paste from the already implemented design having NPC'S do the job with a decent payout as it will alert the law enforcement to the location so it wont be easy or not be too hard or this be a specialist job for PD and SD where to make it fair there only be a set number of law enforcement that can provide backup initially and if an attack happens then more can be provided. I think because this option is high risk as you have going up against PD or SD the payout should be the same as banks due to the nature as likely the Law enforcement having all the armour and weapons to ensure the money gets to its destination safely. if you agree or disagree just reply with -1 or +1 and and a brief reason to why.

Ok as I stated I don't want this to be about talking about how people handled IA IC situations. have you got an opinion on the suggestion as it will help with getting peoples opinions both positive and negative to push the suggested rule change if accepted

I'm sorry that's just how I feel on all my experiences and I've talked to others and they say the same thing and talk about what has happened to them, this isn't to explain a case that happened IC but about a suggestion about a change to a DM rule. In every reply I've tried to go back to what my suggestion is but also answer peoples questions to be honest I was vague with the court case not expecting for someone to find it as it was not to be talked about in detail but as it got brought up which I didn't know someone could do. It was never to slander anyone but as the case was shown I had to explain my side of things to make no confusion.

yes that's true but if he makes up the story then he lied about suspecting it so its not RS and none of that should have happened so it should have got accepted it was a clear case but got denied so that's why I don't like IC reports as personally it hasn't worked for me as he made up the suspicion. that's a corrupt cop which I used this to get a court case so it supplied me with RP so that's why I didn't report OOC'ly Anyway I don't want to make this about that just about the suggestion.

Yes I submitted it but it then got denied I then followed it up but they were just repeating what the charge was after I kept showing them the footage of them lying about it but I found myself talking to a broken record as nothing I said changed them just repeating the charge. Ok here's an example (I'm not going to name any names) I had a high ranking PD officer arrest me under what he said RS to which was completely fabricated and I let him blabber on trying to convince me of something I didn't do and saying he saw me with a sultan that was speeding of which I also had dashcam of the sultan he was on about but it was so far away from me so he lied about me racing it after I let him run his mouth he arrested me I told him not to search my vehicle which he needed PC and he said ill find the PC (that's admitting he didn't have PC and not to his knowledge yet I have dashcam of the lies that he said to disprove what he said so I know he had no real PC or RS) while searching my car he said it doesn't matter as I will find something illegal in there. he then locked me away for no reason because I guess he was mad he didn't find anything I then submitted that to the court and showed all of his comments disproven by the dashcam so he lied about the reason he had RS and him admitting he didn't have RS or PC. the reason my court case got denied was apparently I admitted to racing the sultan after I said "I could have been nice" as the officer was being a douche during the whole encounter and I said "because he being a douche I'm not going to comply with him" (this was me saying I'm not giving you permission to search my car) that's apparently admitting to racing with the sultan and the case got dismissed. if any of that made sense and your answer is that it made no sense that's what I felt like and that's why I think its corrupt but I don't know if the person that dismissed that was corrupt or just didn't understand the law of RS and PC so I didn't report it. Lastly with IA reports I don't want people to be terminated or suspended I just want a rule change that stops players shooting at people or their vehicle when they don't have a weapon (I don't want them shooting to be that escalation) and cops at unarmed suspects should be treated the same I think that is doable and doesn't effect anyone negatively.

What is see there is 5 out of 19 only got accepted and I don't know what happened so this doesn't mean anything to me unless I have context on every report so I wont go into that, I can only go off my experiences I've had for example two times where I've reported high command of either PD or SD and with undeniable evidence with one of them admitting the charge was false that they placed on me the charge didn't go to court??? Now I don't trust the court system in eclipse as I believe after that it is biased and corrupt and my character cant change that. I've also been shot at my officers for nothing and reported it and had dashcam to show for a IA report when I posed no threat and guess what they thrown it away I do think reporting in game is corrupt and this is why I'm suggesting this rule change as honest as I can be I don't believe any of these IC reports work for IA, Court etc. I hope to be on this server a long time and hopefully I can progress my crim and cop character and tbh I made my cop character as I want there to be at least one cop where if they see me they know that I will be fair and as I've been a crim I know what it feels like when cops are lazy and just end chases or shoot at people or no reason.

As you said you don't have a crim alt I want you to understand the reason why these vehicles are only used in a chase if possible and its quite simple, with 8 cop cars on average in a pursuit it is extremely difficult to evade and ill explain why. If you are evading you have to take every corner perfectly and have good racing lines to gain distance on the vehicles, doing this greatly increases the chances of crashing it only takes one mistake and we are out as we are swarmed within seconds if the engine stalls and police they do the same but guess what if they crash and stall it doesn't matter the next 7 cars will take over and I don't think only police characters realise or even appreciate that. I'm starting my PD character soon if I get through academy so I'm putting my assumptions to the test of being in a pursuit is easy especially with air-1 its free information. But to get back onto the topic of the suggestion, I don't want to use real life examples as its a RP server I want everyone to have fun if I am lucky enough to make it into PD I'm going to feel shitty if I am ordered to shoot a guy or his tires that hasn't given me any reason to believe he has a gun and just wants to felony evade as it bring both party's something fun to do (I don't use the real life example of the dangers of a felony evasion as felony evasion is pure fun for the server). of course my character will follow through with the order as that what my character would do but do I want to follow that order no. Every life is important and if an officer opens fire on a vehicle or tires when the evader doesn't have any weapons I would see that officer as not caring for the crims life and that's why I believe this would make sense for it to be implemented into the server. My problem with IA reports IC is that 9/10 it ends as a biased review and honestly it isn't enough for cops to take seriously and to be honest is pointless as it never stop cops from doing the same thing over and over again and the only thing that will stop this is a OOC rule. the reason I'm suggesting this is because this has happened to me many times over my 8-9 months playing everyday and if I have no weapon and get shot at I'm going to OOC report them as in my opinion there's no reasonable escalation. I don't want to OOC report people, I've only done it once but this suggestion will stop this type of gung ho behaviour on shooting people.

I do see your points but I do have a different opinion on two things, Yes in real life felony evading is very serious as the risk to human life is high but if we use the real life argument we have to then abide by all of it so if that is the case I expect after 10-20 minutes in a chase I will see all ground units pull away and have air1 follow me until I stop somewhere and a ambush is set as in real life they do this as a chase brings great danger to the public and lets the suspect thinks he's got away so lets do that. However, I understand that doesn't happen as players that have cop character don't really care for other players life as they aren't going to die its a video game they'll just respawn at the hospital they are not worried for other players safety so I don't like the cherry picking of the real life argument. So to get to my second point yes cops do not know if crims have a gun till they get out however lets be honest if you go to the extreme of what could happen then pistols and tasers might as well be removed as at any moment I could pull out a gun so why risk it, and the reason is because for the sake of escalation the cops have to react and escalate from what the criminal is doing. There's a reason they have full body armour all the time to give them that small window to react to the crims escalation. I never shoot at cops, one because they have full body armour and two they have class 2's a pistol really doesn't stand a chance. and so with this new rule I suggest it will make escalation not go to the extreme when its not necessary I want fun for both sides and some cops actually pm me saying sorry that the chase ended before it started and they were looking forward to the chase but they had to follow orders. also if you're felony evading chances are they out number you so if you hold one hostage then they can swap to their class 2's and have so hostage negotiation RP and that's good too as it bring more adrenaline to the situation and proper escalation is then naturally occurring and is as a result of what the crim is doing and not what they could do.

Ok so to my knowledge the PD and SD have a rule that if they give warnings like "stop or ill shoot" they are then authorised to shoot at tires as that's what they aim for, what I'm trying to get at in my original post is that I think that it should be classed as DM as they escalate a situation to the extreme and there is a chance that a stray bullet does hit someone's head and their excuse is that they aim for the tires and that potential situation can be completely avoided if this rule is in place, if they just use a taser as it is an extremely efficient tool and does not escalate the situation and so to stop that from potentially happening it would be added to the DM rule and encourage more RP. Doing this would also allow more RP as if they have a taser out I can realistically resist the arrest with /me and /do but with a class 2 you cant do that without breaching FRP and so it just stops RP entirely and so I think this change would help. I'm only saying this new rule will only apply to crimes that do not involve weapons.

So I've had this done many times to me from SD and PD both high command and lower ranks but it seems that when you just do a simple felony evade or other small crimes not involving a weapon, the moment your vehicle stalls they get out and immediately pull out their class 2 rifles and if you just get the engine running before they aim it at you they will shoot at your tires and of course then proceed to arrest you as 9/10 you cant get away but that's not the point. The point I'm making is that they immediately escalate from a fun felony evade or small crime to shooting at you. I've heard all their excuses and its been the same every time "I gave you a warning" or "I aimed for your tires" which if one bullet does kill me what are they going to say "I didn't mean to"? can that pass off as not DMing. in my opinion it is not enough escalation and using weapons should be classed as DM in my opinion or at least NRP as it kills the chase as if I did the same to someone I wouldn't have that protection as they seem to get away with those two excuses it seems they have an exception to the rule and I think for fun RP and to stop unnecessary escalation this would benefit the RP between cops and crims. in conclusion if you are felony evading or doing small crimes with no weapons they should not be able to shoot you or your vehicle that sounds sane right? ive tried to take this IC'ly to find a work around but no one is willing to help as it will effect them so my only hope is that a rule is to stop them as its crazy they can shoot at you when you have no weapons.

Jacks Story More In Depth ((from the beginning))

good to see the ballas making a return