Remove OOC permission for kidnapping

[kushsauce]

The reason why I bring this up is simple. When a criminal gets arrested by a cop, no matter the reason, they must play out the RP of being arrested, processed, and taken to prison. Yet if it's flipped around and the criminal wants to kidnap a cop, they must ask permission. Make it balanced on both sides. Force the cops to continue RP of being kidnapped like they force you to when you get arrested. 1/200 times the cops will approve of a kidnapping. Yet 200/200 times a criminal has to RP out the process of getting arrested. I just feel like police officers are too protected by the rules of the server. It's like they can't get touched, yet criminals get thrown around like garbage. All I'm asking is for more of a balance. If cops can force you to play out the process of getting arrested, criminals should also have the power to force cops to play out kidnap RP.

Example:

You have some unpaid tickets on your record. You're driving your vehicle to your house or the parking garage to park it up and get out of town for the night. You get pulled over a a cop, he arrests you and you have to go to work, pick up your children from school, or any OOC reason, you don't have much time to spare. Yet you have to continue RP of the process of getting arrested and sent to prison. If you log off, you get reported for logging, if you say in OOC you need to go ASAP to handle some OOC business, the cops take it as a joke and prolong the process of you getting arrested just to waste your time.

I find this super one-sided because you have to ASK for PERMISSION to kidnap a cop (extended RP). Make it so it's balanced is all I'm asking. If cops are able to ERP arresting you, criminals should be able to ERP with cops without having to ask for permission every 10 seconds to do something to them.

[Riderz]

+1 NEEDS TO BE DONE

[PopTarts]

I don't really agree with this at all Kidnapping an Officer is a very serious offense in which any logical criminal would avoid along with the amount of Officers who would have to respond to the situation would allow the city to be in a rampage. As for when you have to go oocly any Officer I know will allow you to be /prison'd on the spot if you have to go.

[Riderz]

11 minutes ago, poptarts said:

I don't really agree with this at all Kidnapping an Officer is a very serious offense in which any logical criminal would avoid along with the amount of Officers who would have to respond to the situation would allow the city to be in a rampage. As for when you have to go oocly any Officer I know will allow you to be /prison'd on the spot if you have to go.

This is an RP server, your actions have consequences and if you dislike the punishments given of your actions perhaps another line of RP. (Referencing Jail time, it would only be fair) 

[kenichis]

 

52 minutes ago, kushsauce said:

If you say in OOC you need to go ASAP to handle some OOC business, the cops take it as a joke and prolong the process of you getting arrested just to waste your time.

 

Honestly I wouldn't say thats the case. Most police officers I met are actually very nice ooc and I think they would understand. The person on the receiving end has to also be held responsible that when they log out they gotta hand theirselfs in when they log back in otherwise if that kind of habit isn't shown then the cops probably won't trust you too. But I think what you said about the cops gonna prolong the time needed for an arrest intentionally wouldn't be true.

[alexalex303]

There is a very big difference in your example.

The cop arresting you is doing his job, he doesn't have any choice about it. He sees you being wanted/doing something, he has to arrest you.

You are making the choice of robbing someone / speeding or kidnapping a cop.

Basically you want to force the cop to be kidnapped because of his job. 

I'd say if the cop was being corrupt, you should be able to do it. But not just for doing his/her job.

[Riderz]

1 minute ago, alexalex303 said:

There is a very big difference in your example.

The cop arresting you is doing his job, he doesn't have any choice about it. He sees you being wanted/doing something, he has to arrest you.

You are making the choice of robbing someone / speeding or kidnapping a cop.

Basically you want to force the cop to be kidnapped because of his job. 

I'd say if the cop was being corrupt, you should be able to do it. But not just for doing his/her job.

Regardless of OOC reason(s) behind it; that's the roleplay they agree to when becoming a cop. If we must deal with the punishment of being a criminal. The Police must meet their devils as well. Which includes kidnapping, torture etc. Roleplay is not a one way street, both sides must meet their devils.

[Daniel_Underwood]

+1

[padpilot]

mega +1
 

Edited July 3, 2019 by padpilot

[KeistuoliZ]

+1

[Jonaseriksen07]

+1

[Morrison]

+1 here, nobody should be untouchable 

[Msato]

+1 to this in some aspects, 

You've based this on kidnapping cops only, it would be good to allow any form of kidnapping within reason of course.

I agree that as of recent cops are becoming too protected on the server, they should expect even consequences for targeting criminals instead of passing it off as "Doing their job." Technically criminals who aren't rogue and operate under a faction "Work for an organisation."

Perhaps allow kidnapping but have a limit that can be carried out: e.g. if you and a group of players kidnaps someone then the people directly involved cannot do it for X Number of days? 

[Sabrina Alexander]

I agree to disagree on this. I play both cop and crim so I see where you all are coming at in the sense of kidnapping a cop and being the cop that is kidnapped. 
But out of all the comments here, the only two that I would fully agree with is @CallumMontie and @alexalex303.

Callum, I agree with the fact you saying if this does go through that the people involved have a cooldown and aren't allowed to kidnap another person for said amount of time/days. And if they do and are caught doing so they should be punished by whatever means the staff thinks they should have for not following the rules.

Alex, I agree with you on the fact you saying "cops being kidnapped for just doing their job". Like I understand why criminals would want to kidnap a cop because it seems like the cops are just after you and only you. But that isn't the case a lot of us are just trying to do our jobs and keep the city safe. But I have seen some cops being kidnapped just because they are doing their job, I luckily haven't had to experience that yet on my PD character. But the ones who have had that issue I had noticed it was just because they were doing their job either trying to protect a civilian, conducting a traffic stop or just giving a person a warning on their driving skills. I like how you said  "if the cops are corrupt then they shouldn't have to approve kidnap roleplay', I fully agree with that if the criminals know that cop is corrupt and was just trying to go after then or their gang then I am all for that. But if the cop is just doing their job and not trying to do anything to harm themselves or anyone else then I fully stand on they need to be approved.

But my only issue with not having cops approve kidnapping is when there are only 3-5 cops on-duty and you want to plan to kidnap a cop, it sucks because there are times we don't have the manpower to even save that cop. I know for a fact just recently there were only 4 cops on-duty and someone decided to kidnap a cop and there weren't any units to handle the kidnapping because 2 of the cops were only Cadets and as a Cadet, we can't leave the station unless allowed by a higher up. So I would say if you want to make it where PD doesn't have to approve kidnapping it can only be when there is a certain amount of PD on-duty so that it is fair for both the criminals that want to kidnap the cop and for the cops that are trying to save their college. I mean fair as in so the criminals can have their fun roleplaying the kidnapping and seeing where it goes and for PD the chance that we can save our college instead of just letting him die. Because realistically in the police force there are a certain amount of people on-duty during the day or night in case a hostage situation were to happen, but this is only a game if we are being honest and we aren't going to force people to stay awake in case of a hostage situation... It is not fair to them because they might have work in the morning or kids to drop off or kids to pick up, so if we go through with this I stand by PD isn't allowed to approve kidnapping if there is a good amount of PD units to be able to answer that call and help try to save the officer.

We have all had those times we needed to go OOC or had situations out of the game that we needed to hurry to and being pulled over and arrested sucks. When I play my PD character if someone tells me that they need to go OOC then I am all for just jailing them on the spot after frisking them and getting their license and charges added, there are a lot of cops that are just like me in that sense if you haven't met one like that I am sorry but there are a lot of us that are very nice in situations like that. But I will apologize for those in PD that make you go through the whole process because I understand from the criminal standpoint it SUCKS big time.

Basically, these are the only things I agree with on this whole post is, PD doesn't have to approve kidnapping if there is a certain amount of PD to answer the call to make it fair for PD. Then after the kidnapping, those involved that kidnapped the officer is not allowed to kidnap again(basically has a cooldown on when you can do it again, just like jailbreaks). If there aren't enough units on-duty to make it fair for PD then they are allowed to deny kidnapping just so that it is fair and not onesided.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Sabrina Alexander
fixing a mess up

[Yputi]

I never got kidnapped on duty. I just get the 'hands up' stuff thrown at me. 
Maybe with some strict rules, I am fine with it, but its hard for me to tell as I never really experienced the current system.

I believe in the past, the only rule that was there was that you can only kindnap someone if you were with 4 or more, but that changed. Maybe something similair with a store (although that is script restricted)? Where there need to be a minimum of cops around before there is permission to kidnap? Or only official gangs can? This might encourage some more detailed RP as well as it requires more than just robbing on the spot or holding someone gunpoint.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Yputi

[Brandon Powers]

+1 Strongly agree.

[kushsauce]

Sabrina makes valid points. The only fault that I see in that is if you were to ATTEMPT to kidnap a cop, he tells you OOC reason ((only 3 PD on duty)), you would have to pause RP and the cop would have to let it go. If we target a specific person (the cop that put you in jail), they definitely won't let it go. Probably call for Tac1 SWAT right after the crims leave, giving description and so on a so forth. We should have GUIDELINES for kidnapping rather than PERMISSION for kidnapping. Some suggestions of guidelines would be:

1. All OFF-DUTY officers must be ON-CALL for situations like this. So when PD gets informed of one of their own being taken, they must all go to PD and clock in to go handle the situation since that is what it would be like IRL.

2. Let's say there's the rare chance where only one cop is in town whether he's on/off duty, we should make it so that if he gives an OOC reason of not having cops, show evidence that there is only said number of cops in town.

3. As for the criminal side, they should do their research and plan out the kidnapping. Let's make it so that crims must check faction page to see how many cops are online, on AND off duty, doesn't matter. Then the criminals must have a plan for said cop/person kidnapped. If the criminal has no plan and is just driving around, that is poor RP. 

We're not trying to create a system where criminals pull up to a cop patrolling the streets and kidnap him out of nowhere, just cause. We want to build RP with a few people, come up with a master plan for the kidnapping and what to do with the person being kidnapped, and play it out like that. If admins want to promote "smart criminal" actions, we need more power when it comes to doing things to people. Create some kind of CHECKBOOK/GUIDELINES for criminals to follow to carry out a kidnapping. ASKING FOR PERMISSION IS NOT IT.

[money]

I disagree with having a certain number of cops online to allow kidnapping,

Kidnapping is a personal thing. You dont really kidnap just because he is a cop, you kidnap because maybe he provoked you verbally or otherwise..

Also police have more manpower then any gang, it comes with the territory, sometimes you have more people online sometimes you have less,

you cant say "if you try to kidnap us, there needs to be 20 cops online"

Thats like a criminal saying  "if you want to arrest me, there needs to be 20 gang members online either"

 

I dont agree with forcing people to elaborately plan a kidnapping, If you are a in a gang and lets say you go to the grocery store, there is a cop parked. the cop you wanted to kidnap in the first place. Then you would ofcourse kidnap where possible, Criminals are oppertunistic, thats why they are criminals.

Edited July 4, 2019 by money

[Wizzidy]

4 hours ago, money said:

I disagree with having a certain number of cops online to allow kidnapping,

Kidnapping is a personal thing. You dont really kidnap just because he is a cop, you kidnap because maybe he provoked you verbally or otherwise..

Also police have more manpower then any gang, it comes with the territory, sometimes you have more people online sometimes you have less,

you cant say "if you try to kidnap us, there needs to be 20 cops online"

Thats like a criminal saying  "if you want to arrest me, there needs to be 20 gang members online either"

 

I dont agree with forcing people to elaborately plan a kidnapping, If you are a in a gang and lets say you go to the grocery store, there is a cop parked. the cop you wanted to kidnap in the first place. Then you would ofcourse kidnap where possible, Criminals are oppertunistic, thats why they are criminals.

This is short sighted. You are saying "allow them to wait until its 2am and kidnap the 1 officer on duty because they know there are only 4 people..." Sorry but if we make an IRL comparison, if a city PD officer was taken there would most certainly be police, FBI, Sheriffs, Fire Department, SWAT... scrambling to find this person.... unlike criminals who often wouldnt know their boy got popped until the drugs didn't make it to the delivery...

You are equating numbers when you should be looking at the realism of organizations...  Also arresting somebody for something they CHOSE to do, is different then FORCING a person into extended RP.... at threat of rules.... for just "being a cop" I am not PD and I think this is a dumb idea from an OOC standpoint. Sure there should be decent reasons for resisting RP oocly, but I think server or not if I were told "I am going to kidnap you" and I was like "I got dinner with my girl in 20 minutes" then after that 20 minutes is up, rp is over or im out... sorry... life comes first, that's why ooc rules exist.

[Riderz]

24 minutes ago, Wizzidy said:

This is short sighted. You are saying "allow them to wait until its 2am and kidnap the 1 officer on duty because they know there are only 4 people..." Sorry but if we make an IRL comparison, if a city PD officer was taken there would most certainly be police, FBI, Sheriffs, Fire Department, SWAT... scrambling to find this person.... unlike criminals who often wouldnt know their boy got popped until the drugs didn't make it to the delivery...

You are equating numbers when you should be looking at the realism of organizations...  Also arresting somebody for something they CHOSE to do, is different then FORCING a person into extended RP.... at threat of rules.... for just "being a cop" I am not PD and I think this is a dumb idea from an OOC standpoint. Sure there should be decent reasons for resisting RP oocly, but I think server or not if I were told "I am going to kidnap you" and I was like "I got dinner with my girl in 20 minutes" then after that 20 minutes is up, rp is over or im out... sorry... life comes first, that's why ooc rules exist.

Don't do the RP if you can't do the time of RP; If we can do 10 hours in jail for it, you can at least roleplay to some standard

Edited July 4, 2019 by Tezhl

[Wizzidy]

10 hours ago, Tezhl said:

Don't do the RP if you can't do the time of RP; If we can do 10 hours in jail for it, you can at least roleplay to some standard

Did you just compare "whenever I want" 10 hours to a forced 3 hour ordeal? haha okay have it your way, we can do forced kidnappings, but we have to be able to pause whenever the person wants, and it can be stretched and scheduled over  5 days

Edited July 4, 2019 by Wizzidy

[Flucifial]

I don't know where in the rules it says you need permission, but I have to disagree.

 

Kidnapping police officers does not happen very often, and are in fact extremely rare in the U.S. I think in order to maintain realism, we must keep this rule in place. 

[Marca]

No thanks. As said above, it's not realistic and people would just keep doing it for the lols, with little to no IC reason. Heck I'd even argue that robbing a cop is failRP.

[Riderz]

1 hour ago, Flucifial said:

I don't know where in the rules it says you need permission, but I have to disagree.

 

Kidnapping police officers does not happen very often, and are in fact extremely rare in the U.S. I think in order to maintain realism, we must keep this rule in place. 

So can I report cops for speeding without lights for non-rp? Since cops don't do that IRL? 

[Flucifial]

24 minutes ago, Tezhl said:

So can I report cops for speeding without lights for non-rp? Since cops don't do that IRL? 

Sounds like an IC issue, you can't just say that ALL cops do not do that IRL. Some cops could be a little corrupt or disregard the traffic laws. So, to answer your question, no, as that would not be non-rp.