COMPLETELY delete public lab tables and chop shops.

[JoKenpo]

+1

[Tylerwalk]

I think this idea if done right could be very good and could create a lot of unique rp opportunity's. Big +1 from me!

[Ritchie Stones]

i think people just want their freedom back, for being able to make drugs when and where they want to, 
the idea of more public labs looked good on paper, but in reality its a PVP loop,
and before that part you also have to first go through +- 30 labs to find an active one....
its inconsistent and you are better off just doing a hunting job. or even a normal job,
for all the effort you have to put into drugs making, eventually to make a bit more then a regular job, at least you can get started right away.

where ppl have freedom they create a sense of destiny and purpose that they feel in control about, and you create a unique storyline.
now with the public labs only, it feels like most of our freedom is taken away and we are "indirectly" forced to participate into an RP scenario that is based of a specific group of people that enjoy only pvp, and leaves a solid grinding and RP base in the cold.

on top of that the meaning is taken away.
eclipse used to have mostly meaningful interactions, because you had to build up relationships with ppl in order to get to tables, and other materials, the longer you where in the game the better your connections grew over the years.
that is how you feel like somebody, because of the people you surround yourself with.
even as a solo crim you could still be someone who had many ppl around you.

also scaling is part of the past, back then we went from RV, to houses to.... better houses to bussiness.
you could reinvest your earnings into scaling your drug production, making relationships even more important 
and reason to sustain them over the long run, because that was your foundation to build upon.
there is no more reason to do any of this anymore because the smartest thing you can do is have a bf400
sit in a lab, dip and avoid the PVP that has little to do with RP, 

I genuinely struggle to understand where the developers had figured at one point, to prefer
PVP interactions over a grinding RP mindset. when it was the clapper mentality that they originally wanted to get rid off.
or maybe it is a very good idea simply gone the wrong direction.
because it seems like the only group of people now that are having fun are the clappers hehe.
and the rest of us, the grinders and RP'rs have been pushed to the background with very little meaning.

i have been in a pvp gang for sometime to see if it was something for me, it looks cool, but its very demanding, it expects a lot from you, and you have to specifically like pvp a lot to keep up with it. and...

please just give our freedom back XD

 

[Quietthecutie]

41 minutes ago, Ritchie Stones said:

I genuinely struggle to understand where the developers had figured at one point, to prefer
PVP interactions over a grinding RP mindset. when it was the clapper mentality that they originally wanted to get rid off.

Because development direction will always be about trying to please the maximum amount of people possible for the broadest appeal, whilst also spending the least amount of money. basic economics.

This is at the end of the day, a business, and the more people active on the server, the more money on average being spent, the more money and security for the server.

As i said, for better and worse, a large amount of the player base enjoys and engages with the current lab system, whilst keeping the economy in check. people dont make fat stacks as fast or as easy as they used to, which both keeps them on the server grinding for longer, and incentivises bitcoin where possible to speed up the process.

The long and the short of it is, whilst theres probably a lot of changes that staff could make which would make labs more enjoyable, profitable and easier and we can collectively say "yes please." they would also make labs way more profitable and viable to a much broader part of the community, which would be counter productive to the grind which keeps servers like this going.

 

[Ritchie Stones]

1 hour ago, Quietthecutie said:

Because development direction will always be about trying to please the maximum amount of people possible for the broadest appeal, whilst also spending the least amount of money. basic economics.

This is at the end of the day, a business, and the more people active on the server, the more money on average being spent, the more money and security for the server.

As i said, for better and worse, a large amount of the player base enjoys and engages with the current lab system, whilst keeping the economy in check. people dont make fat stacks as fast or as easy as they used to, which both keeps them on the server grinding for longer, and incentivises bitcoin where possible to speed up the process.

The long and the short of it is, whilst theres probably a lot of changes that staff could make which would make labs more enjoyable, profitable and easier and we can collectively say "yes please." they would also make labs way more profitable and viable to a much broader part of the community, which would be counter productive to the grind which keeps servers like this going.

 

i see your point, but real evidence of this what I call freedom is, for example, private chops, you can see how much that spark of freedom is appreciated by everyone, not everyone can afford it or dares to take the risk or has no good location for it, but you can see how much appreciation there is for such thing like a private chop, 

what personally about the labs bothers me most is the "inconsistency" I don't feel like passing by at least 20 labs to find a spot that I feel is more safe to cook, and then still be unlucky, I want to be able to log on, and have the security that my desire will be fulfilled, and with 6 active labs between +30 labs rotating, I sometimes log in and think, okay none of the labs that I feel are safe enough for me is available, so.... i log out, I don't mind the public labs to much, except for its inconsistency, lack of meaningful interaction, and not being able to scale dreams up, I think... both options public labs, and tabels open on the map + growing weed everywhere, sounds like a idea that can get everyone's needs met, or at least if the server would try it out for a month or 2 and see what happens

[Quietthecutie]

20 minutes ago, Ritchie Stones said:

i see your point, but real evidence of this what I call freedom is, for example, private chops, you can see how much that spark of freedom is appreciated by everyone, not everyone can afford it or dares to take the risk or has no good location for it, but you can see how much appreciation there is for such thing like a private chop, 

what personally about the labs bothers me most is the "inconsistency" I don't feel like passing by at least 20 labs to find a spot that I feel is more safe to cook, and then still be unlucky, I want to be able to log on, and have the security that my desire will be fulfilled, and with 6 active labs between +30 labs rotating, I sometimes log in and think, okay none of the labs that I feel are safe enough for me is available, so.... i log out, I don't mind the public labs to much, except for its inconsistency, lack of meaningful interaction, and not being able to scale dreams up, I think... both options public labs, and tabels open on the map + growing weed everywhere, sounds like a idea that can get everyone's needs met, or at least if the server would try it out for a month or 2 and see what happens

yeah, i try to keep an open mind when it comes to development direction. whilst i dont always agree with it, and whilst some parts of it...kills me... and sometimes it feels like the suggestion section is like pissing on a brick wall...i can appriciate a different perspective. i have that comfort of being able to criticise because i dont have to think of the bigger picture.

[Ritchie Stones]

3 hours ago, Quietthecutie said:

yeah, i try to keep an open mind when it comes to development direction. whilst i dont always agree with it, and whilst some parts of it...kills me... and sometimes it feels like the suggestion section is like pissing on a brick wall...i can appriciate a different perspective. i have that comfort of being able to criticise because i dont have to think of the bigger picture.

Yeah i mostly read your comments because you have a deeper mind aswell,we go back n forth also pretty easy, i like that, 

i try to observe the server as a constant process as if its never a finished product, 

i hope something can be done soon that lean more towards personal labs

[Blazendary]

+1

[CharlesXiao]

I f/w this heavy. +1

[Puzzling]

I think this is a great idea! Getting benefits for cooking on your turf would be crazy. It would also allow different gangs to interact with their area of the city more often. You would also see gangs in their turfs instead of only when they are throwing a block party or resupplying to go up north.

It would probably make the server feel more alive since people would be around more!

 

I don't think getting rid of the public labs is a good idea, keep the public labs, but allow everyone to cook anywhere they see fit!

Edited December 23, 2024 by Puzzling

[Eliza]

+1 for the alternative to cooking on your turf, I think that’s a great idea and would give territories more value, encouraging better RP and natural conflicts.

But I’m not sure about removing public chop shops. Private setups are a big investment, especially for newer players. Public chops give them a chance to engage in that part of the game without needing tons of cash upfront.

It feels like a solid risk vs. reward system, if someone’s willing to take the risk of using a public full setup for higher pay, they should have that option. The safer route with a car jack already exists for less money. Removing public chops could hurt smaller groups and new players more than it helps.

I think the turf based system you suggested is great, but public chops still serve a purpose.

[Bala]

Yeah, I don't think so.

The way I see it, we're at a point in the server's life cycle where people need to be directed towards as many other people as possible to keep things sustainable in terms of interactions and things.

Cooking in Apartments was one of the most damaging additions to the server because not only was it a license to print money, you put people away in different dimensions in almost complete security.

I don't foresee a return to ECRP from 2019 where the city was where every individual was situated but then everyone went to the County to do illegal shit, so the split will likely remain for a good while yet as we have factions like Bayview and SD doing well in the North.

All that to say, there are obviously issues with the public labs. I think there is perhaps too little of them and the rotation isn't big enough. I think the accessibility to the weed for example isn't sufficent. 

I get it might not be fun for the person on the end of the gun, but it might still be fun for the person behind it to hold someone at gunpoint. I think sometimes people are uncomfortable with the idea of losing situations and want to play things their way.

I think if we had more players, I could perhaps support individual enterprises again but we don't and I don't see that we will again at this juncture, so its a no from me.

[Smoke1]

+1

I came into this thinking what not another one. Then i actually read it and the reply's for and against, what a wild idea but with your's and everyone's positives responses i think this would be great!! You can already do this with chop shops and gang's / people do this sometimes. I think it would bring a use back to buy/sell tables and also create rp for some of the lower tier groups that have the ability to import tables but no one uses them. I think with some more conversation and figuring out some logistics this would be a great addition. Maybe leave 1 or 2 static chop/cook labs and the rest can be anywhere. This would create people searching for them. I think pd/sd with a heli could easily find them so that's the only issue i can foresee. And maybe make it so you can't cook inside

[Salvador Rivera]

+1

I have been waiting for a long time for something to be changed in the entire drug business/system. I believe that there is a need for private labs to grow and make weed. Why? Because all I see in these places is people shooting, robbing and trolling/ max toxic. The idea is  cool, but people misunderstand. It seems that many have forgotten what type of server we play on.

Public labs attracts more and more people every day who are only looking for PVP.  

I agree with what you say DontSniffSugar for the fact that territories should be used. I would like to see how gangs or organizations fight for them.  At least there would be some reason for those wars. Because for now, everyone is shooting and robbing for no reason. Because they are bored.

[OBESE]

How about we dont remove the current system and keep all the labs and the rotations, but add as an extra to one of the faction tiers to be able to make their own labs with imported tables, same as with chop shop, in one of their territories. More territories you have, more labs you can make. In this way the new players still have access and options to cook. Hopefully it would push back the bigger organisations to roll the labs therefore remove some of the PVP or at least make it more enjoyable by having fair chance to win the fights as it wouldn't be 10people rolling vs 3-4 holding or other way around.

This would be the balance, at least on the paper, for crims and LEO's. Crims engaging more with their turf and have better presence there and LEO's having freedom to roam and actually find crime in these crim areas.

[Linden_Thuynsma]

On 12/21/2024 at 2:32 AM, Bala said:

I think if we had more players, I could perhaps support individual enterprises again but we don't and I don't see that we will again at this juncture, so its a no from me.

I alone know at least 25 people who have left the server since the way the new labs situation is, if you are not in a big gang that can either push or hold labs well,then there is no point in going there as its not interaction that happen there its 10-20seconds of demands and frisks or a fight if you have the man or fire-power to fight back there is always one gang that rules the labs and usually they get disband after a few months of reign, also if you are not a big shooter you are not getting in those big gangs, i get what you are saying but the last year has not brought more players then lost players, this idea would makes so much more sense, as you would find gangs in their actual territories, and would make the turf system make sense, usually gangs would be found in their "hood" not somewhere in a mountain or a bushy area but they are a street gang, makes no role play sense that you would never be found in your turf yet you claim and maintain turf PS. turf wars would be just as engaging as the labs

I personally +1 this

Edited December 22, 2024 by Linden_Thuynsma

[Demonmit1]

On 12/20/2024 at 3:58 PM, DontSniffSugar said:

But I’m not sure about removing public chop shops. Private setups are a big investment, especially for newer players. Public chops give them a chance to engage in that part of the game without needing tons of cash upfront.

The idea is that a private chop and tables would all be rebalanced on their costs, since there would be no free option available. 150k import on a toolbox is already so prohibitively expensive, it would need to be reduced massively, like $30k-50k.

 

On 12/20/2024 at 4:32 PM, Bala said:

Cooking in Apartments was one of the most damaging additions to the server because not only was it a license to print money, you put people away in different dimensions in almost complete security.

Yeah, being in your own private dimension locked away printing money was poor for the server. But the current way labs work is also less that ideal in the best of circumstances. 

Completely removing public tables and chops, and letting players place them anywhere on the over world map (not in a property) would be a significant change in how things work, and I think it would be for the better.

[Aezeryst]

i for sure +1 this, i dont ever really do labs simply because its a pvp zone with 0 rp. it reduces the rp value of the server and provides nothing but toxicity in the community, we have gotten to a point where player reports are the front page of ecrp which is a horrible look for anything. i also have known people leaving due to the toxicity that has come with public pvp zones (labs) but it also does not bring in players. Most crims also have just switched to playing as full legals as the crim community has become nothing but toxic.

going back on the topic of rp, rply it makes no sense for gangs to fight over a lab, it would make more sense for people to set up their own labs (even if it was in an accessible public location like chopping) as it provides more rp for people to actually play drug manufacturers or dealers etc. Walter and Jesse werent defending your local flower shop screamin "retard" at you every 3 seconds.

its also as @Linden_Thuynsma said, you aint gonna get new players if all that happens is ecrp encourages pvp and toxicity

Edited December 22, 2024 by Aezeryst

[Bala]

19 hours ago, Aezeryst said:

i for sure +1 this, i dont ever really do labs simply because its a pvp zone with 0 rp. it reduces the rp value of the server and provides nothing but toxicity in the community, we have gotten to a point where player reports are the front page of ecrp which is a horrible look for anything. i also have known people leaving due to the toxicity that has come with public pvp zones (labs) but it also does not bring in players. Most crims also have just switched to playing as full legals as the crim community has become nothing but toxic.

going back on the topic of rp, rply it makes no sense for gangs to fight over a lab, it would make more sense for people to set up their own labs (even if it was in an accessible public location like chopping) as it provides more rp for people to actually play drug manufacturers or dealers etc. Walter and Jesse werent defending your local flower shop screamin "retard" at you every 3 seconds.

its also as @Linden_Thuynsma said, you aint gonna get new players if all that happens is ecrp encourages pvp and toxicity

Any toxicity in the community or frequency of reports in the community is not down to public labs or any other script feature to be complete honest. It's down to care-bearing and hand holding people in the community that are unable to accept negative situations and it's also down to a lack of alternative things to do so people will always pick the lowest hanging fruit.

You get robbed at a public lab, because it's one of the only places you can be robbed. But, while you are being held at gunpoint, you're being role-played with. Just like if you were being arrested. But because that situation is a negative one, certain players don't want to do it because they don't want to lose.

This community was founded and populated on public drug labs and while I would go so far as to agree, they're in need of some tweaking, a return to private labs isn't really in the best interests of server activity. We need people interacting more, not groups of people hiding in safety printing money.

There probably should be a few more active labs and we probably should have more places where marijuana grows so it's not quite such a bottleneck, especially for small groups and solos. The intention was always a big rotation, so that people could go in, do what they need to and move on.

That being said, it's a wild statement say that while people have left over the labs (and I agree, some people will have), they haven't brought in players because you're playing on a server that in part got big on that premise. But hey, whatever supports the narrative you're trying to tell I guess.

[alexalex303]

On 12/22/2024 at 1:19 PM, Aezeryst said:

i for sure +1 this, i dont ever really do labs simply because its a pvp zone with 0 rp. it reduces the rp value of the server and provides nothing but toxicity in the community, we have gotten to a point where player reports are the front page of ecrp which is a horrible look for anything. i also have known people leaving due to the toxicity that has come with public pvp zones (labs) but it also does not bring in players. Most crims also have just switched to playing as full legals as the crim community has become nothing but toxic.

going to labs in the current environment is the equivalent of flagging for pvp in an mmo, you're signaling to everyone else that you want to fight, and even if you run a large number of cars will chase you all over the map for a few plants and a .50

but that being said, shootouts are a big part of gta and as long as you understand what labs are, if you're not interested in that content, you can just ignore them. I don't see what harm they do as you're not forced to interact with them.

[Purely]

+1

I love this idea. The idea that gangs can remain on their turfs to cook drugs sounds great! I think that continuing to disable tables from being placed 'INSIDE' is also important, to stop people spending a few hours a day in a different dimension, as Bala said, as that adds nothing to the server and is a way for them to print money. 

I don't think there should be an advantage to cooking on your 'own' turf, but I don't think there should be a disadvantage either. The reason I say that is because if you want to do a joined cook - perhaps with friends from another faction - then while you're getting 1 drug every 2 minutes (for example) they're getting 1 every 5. From a realism standpoint, it doesn't make sense why it would take someone else longer, or less time, to cook because you're one block over from your turf. 

More places to find and pick plants, or a script and perhaps more equipment you can import to grow your own would be great too. But keeping SOME of the current labs open for quick manufacturing may be beneficial to some and wouldn't bother me if they remained open if this change was implemented, but I'd prefer player-to-player deals if people want quick drugs, like finding a gang member to buy weed off at O-Block etc. 

 

[Clank]

6 hours ago, alexalex303 said:

going to labs in the current environment is the equivalent of flagging for pvp in an mmo, you're signaling to everyone else that you want to fight

the problem is people want fights but then report when they lose soley to get their gear refunded and not because a rule was broken.

Edited December 23, 2024 by Clank

[DoubleA]

With FM 2.0 and cooking being a huge thing for turfs, a few of us made a few interesting ideas for tables and making them worth while:

with the illegal faction tier system, why not add the ability to add tables on exteriors of your gangs turfs, and every tier you get, you have the ability to add 2 more tables(or whatever number) - so for example rooks being tier 7, we could place 14 tables down on our turf. This would be a way that we can balance a few things, 1: so we don’t have people that cook and make 20-30 million in a month, and 2:  reward people who DO want to RP with the ability to not be forced to PVP for our drugs, which is what the current system does.  
 

I think this would also bring more involvement from the smaller factions that may have been pushed away from cooking due to the PVP aspect of things associated to public labs and give them incentive to keep going forward, while also helping them still maintain turfs
 

this would also be applicable to cooking inside of your warehouse, both would work for this. Removing all of the labs I don’t think is a great idea, as it’s been a staple of the server for a long time and it’s a faster but more dangerous alternative. The biggest issue is like I said above, having someone sitting in a lab tabbed out not doing anything but printing money. The current table script makes it very interactive so there’s less of that nowadays. 
 

there would need to be rules put in place for this obviously, but just spitballing the idea out there

[CharlesXiao]

2 minutes ago, DoubleA said:

with the illegal faction tier system, why not add the ability to add tables on exteriors of your gangs turfs, and every tier you get, you have the ability to add 2 more tables(or whatever number) - so for example rooks being tier 7, we could place 14 tables down on our turf. This would be a way that we can balance a few things, 1: so we don’t have people that cook and make 20-30 million in a month, and 2:  reward people who DO want to RP with the ability to not be forced to PVP for our drugs, which is what the current system does.

Massive +1

[Daxu]

Giant +1

I think public labs should stay around while this new system would be tried out. As much as we may argue it's best to keep new players out of labs and chopping, there's something to be said for balancing the experience, as its really some of the only ways new crims can get a start.

If there were positive reactions to a "place anywhere" system, removing the preset tables and lowering the startup cost for players would be a definite next-step. Maybe developing a system where you buy the lab components (beakers, burners, etc.) and chemicals from humane labs/imports, a folding table from the general store, etc. then combine them in the inventory to get a functional drug table? Maybe that's too much but something similar might be a cool way to balance the startup costs with complexity.