Private labs being completely murdered.

[OBESE]

Read through majority of the comments under this thread and to be fair it seemed that the only people that think that public labs "bring" more RP are those who prefer aggressive aka clapping RP, because for them it brings the experience, the interactions that they strive for, what brings them the most fun from being on the server, so I can totally understand how last couple of years have not been the greatest for these people as the amount of people cooking in public labs, compared to the amount back in 2019 and 2020 is non-existent. 

I've always hated wars and shootouts and and all that non-sense, but I still tried to work around the "meta" and find ways how I can fulfil my wishes and get the experience I personally strive for, but the how the server was built and the environment that it had created was never in favour of that.

When the private labs were introduced they finally gave me an option to be able to sustain myself financially and on top of that have rest of the time to roleplay and create the RP environment that satisfies me. If I have to spend 3hrs in a locked lab and then have 3-4hrs open for a good RP that I and others can enjoy, because we choose to make that RP, then I will always choose it over spending those 6-7hrs on my knees, or being humiliated, laughed on, pushed to do RP I dislike, deal with kids that should not be on the server, people that knows 100% how to ruleplay, but have no idea how to roleplay.

A good system was made for private labs as you needed a lot of safety additions to be able to cook unnoticed. When people figured out how everything works then it became a safe environment, same as any other workplace that follows some health and safety rules in order to not have accidents. If you feel that there really is a massive problem with private labs then just limit the cooking times in private labs and in that way you will limit the money "printing" and time spend behind locked doors. By simply adding that after X amount of hours cooking the building would start to smell and would need proper ventilation. For example if your lab is fit with vents then you could cook for 3hours in total (timer would hit as soon as first drug is put in to cook and add up even if you do 3x1h cooking) after what you would have to wait 20hours for the building to be fully ventilated or PD would be notified by neighbours or people around. Without vents it could be done only for 1-1.5hrs + the smoke coming from the building which would be a good indicator for PD.

Those who enjoy public labs, go do public labs and rob, clap each other until you sick of it. But don't push people into RP they don't want to do. I believe my suggestion of how to balance the use of private labs to still allow people to have access to different type of RP while still limiting the low risk benefits.

[JohnnydaHo]

The idea that the drug business is simply sitting in a house making money without any RP is nonsense. To just get in to a position to have a lab an enormous amount of RP and cash is invested. RP is involved when getting ingredients, particularly plants, as the labs serve as a means of making connections and even recruiting. I can guarantee you that there is far more RP involved in cooking 250 coke than there is in arranging to have a gas station or store restocked and then go to bed while the money comes in. Private labs are essential to maintaining turfs which in turn affects shipment weight availability. The whole illegal import system is intricately related to the drug business and trying to force factions into public labs will only lead to shootouts and an inability to maintain their turfs to facilitate shipments. 

[Smoke1]

Put more tables to make marijuana at public

[vGJake]

Ngl, since this update I've seen more people around the city now.

[pooria]

+1 this update is not making any sense since everything is so expensive being able to make a decent amount of cash is reasonable not everyone had a chance to stack up guns for a daily fight up north over few drugs that you cant cook in property's and its not just that you can chose not to go up there and not cook because official gangs all need to take care of their turf some more than other and guns being super rare and super expensive around the city wont make it easier to make a deal with other gangs to do that for you. my point is if the idea is to make more interactions in the labs lowering the gun prices is reasonable and gives more opportunities for interaction to everyone. 

[John Nut]

Another idea is to perhaps add private labs as one of the official tiers bonuses for official factions.  Remove all this stupid minigames and have it like cooking in private was before this new update. This way the whole gang "shares" it and it doesnt spawn money, but rather help with the drug turfs but to many members to feed money as too many gang members are in rotation for it. This would make a little more sense. And perhaps adding a timer/blocker so you can only cook "this amount" within 24 hours or 48 hours

[John Vayro]

I've spent two years on Eclipse. And have had a little fun on here. I've met people here and for the last 2 years have been evolving my character. I have been grinding countless hours as a lone wolf on purpose and not done what the majority of players do and that is joining a gang.

About 2 weeks ago I spent everything I had setting something up and wanted to bring a new criminal faction to the server.

So two years of saving and planning and grinding and when I finally managed to get everything setup. It gets nerfed.

The private labs were probably my favourite part of the server and it just got killed off. I've basically slaved over a game for two years, for nothing.

Players are the people that keep this server alive, along with the hundreds of other ones out there.

Did you not think about maybe asking the very players what they may have thought on your updates or changes?

Maybe putting it to a vote?

 

[Jett_J]

Chilling and grilling meth with the homies outside is a lot better than inside alone

[Payn]

On 3/15/2023 at 6:34 PM, Bala said:

In terms of private labs, just stick a fork in it, get rid of it and try not to piss more people off in the process. Let them trade in their lab equipment for the import price or like 75% of it. Yes, some lab owners will have made a lot more than their investment but the damage is already done. They've still got properties that won't have a function anymore but having a system that the devs will let you use but don't really want you to use doesn't make any sense to me

Huge +1 to this, like at least if youre slowly moving towards what seems like getting rid of private labs, do your damage and lets people get some if not most of their investment back. Its worse slowly deteriorating crims main source of income whilst everything else stays the same. I know there is arguments of "oh just go to the public lab its fine" but in reality if you go there even in small groups of say 5 with each a .50, if there are actual gangs there, its pointless going really, you get robbed or killed which is why private labs are a big thing because at least you can enjoy the game rather than try to do something and get instantly robbed or killed. If there are going to be changes as such only dedicated towards the downfall of criminal RP, surely there has to be a substitute for other sources of income. Some people in this thread are saying its just spawning money but its not, you have to work towards it and put a large risky investment into equipment and ingredients to even think about getting started oh and the property to accomodate this. Then after all of this you have to be consistent and then you have to actually sell it without getting robbed. Whilst this all goes on, legal factions is just fill out a form and off you go your salary clock is ticking and the money is rolling in. Although compared to the drug labs legals may not as earn as much, if you take in the risk and reward into account that explains it all. There is a large amount of risk to running a lab in comparison to driving a taxi or working an LEO. 

[vGJake]

Na, keep private labs tf? I know a few people who still enjoy cooking in their private labs and having fun with it.

[Requiem]

On 3/18/2023 at 6:50 PM, Payn said:

Huge +1 to this, like at least if youre slowly moving towards what seems like getting rid of private labs, do your damage and lets people get some if not most of their investment back. Its worse slowly deteriorating crims main source of income whilst everything else stays the same. I know there is arguments of "oh just go to the public lab its fine" but in reality if you go there even in small groups of say 5 with each a .50, if there are actual gangs there, its pointless going really, you get robbed or killed which is why private labs are a big thing because at least you can enjoy the game rather than try to do something and get instantly robbed or killed. If there are going to be changes as such only dedicated towards the downfall of criminal RP, surely there has to be a substitute for other sources of income. Some people in this thread are saying its just spawning money but its not, you have to work towards it and put a large risky investment into equipment and ingredients to even think about getting started oh and the property to accomodate this. Then after all of this you have to be consistent and then you have to actually sell it without getting robbed. Whilst this all goes on, legal factions is just fill out a form and off you go your salary clock is ticking and the money is rolling in. Although compared to the drug labs legals may not as earn as much, if you take in the risk and reward into account that explains it all. There is a large amount of risk to running a lab in comparison to driving a taxi or working an LEO. 

Im confused as to why you are comparing a legal characters money source and a crims source. They do completely different things and it has no relevance to the topic - that being private drug labs. Legal characters are low risk, low reward for their payout, crims are high risk high reward. I dont see how thats a problem? Its not like a LEO main is gonna clock off shift with their salary and go buy a AK and go contest the lab...the way legal characters make money has no impact on a crim what-so-ever. So balance here shouldn't even be brought up.

Also, this should be about the RP opps and the fun while playing and immersing yourself in your character and its development. If you think about nothing but money like this is runescape and you are just looking for the best meta money making method and go grind that for 10 hours, then maybe you are playing the wrong game. 

As for the actual OP, I agree with what others have said. Just yeet the private labs and allow those with the investment to refund a part of it. Its unhealthy for the server and the players alike. 

Edited March 20, 2023 by Bill Breacher

[Payn]

1 hour ago, Bill Breacher said:

Im confused as to why you are comparing a legal characters money source and a crims source. They do completely different things and it has no relevance to the topic - that being private drug labs. Legal characters are low risk, low reward for their payout, crims are high risk high reward. I dont see how thats a problem? Its not like a LEO main is gonna clock off shift with their salary and go buy a AK and go contest the lab...the way legal characters make money has no impact on a crim what-so-ever. So balance here shouldn't even be brought up.

Also, this should be about the RP opps and the fun while playing and immersing yourself in your character and its development. If you think about nothing but money like this is runescape and you are just looking for the best meta money making method and go grind that for 10 hours, then maybe you are playing the wrong game. 

As for the actual OP, I agree with what others have said. Just yeet the private labs and allow those with the investment to refund a part of it. Its unhealthy for the server and the players alike. 

At the end of the day, the cops and crims are gonna cross paths. Im not saying its cops vs crims but with crims main source of income pretty much removed, those without huge stashes wont stand a chance against LEO's because they simply cannot afford to put up a fight as a lot of the time that is what situations result in - Most of the time LEO coming out on time meaning more losses from crims. 

Also in regards to saying the money should not be a focus, why ask for pay rises in legal jobs when it doesnt matter. It should be all about the RP right!

Also its not about meta money making, its about the normal way of making money, its been that way for a long time and to just make such a large change in such a short amount of time its kinda unnecessary. If legal factions had their pay drastically reduced im sure there would be a huge uproar from your side.

[Requiem]

5 minutes ago, Payn said:

At the end of the day, the cops and crims are gonna cross paths. Im not saying its cops vs crims but with crims main source of income pretty much removed, those without huge stashes wont stand a chance against LEO's because they simply cannot afford to put up a fight as a lot of the time that is what situations result in - Most of the time LEO coming out on time meaning more losses from crims. 

Crims goal shouldn't be to fight LEO's. Thats one your not going to gain anything from and you won't win long term (and sometimes short term).

6 minutes ago, Payn said:

Also in regards to saying the money should not be a focus, why ask for pay rises in legal jobs when it doesnt matter. It should be all about the RP right!

I could care less about the money I make on LEO. I play LEO for the RP opps and the job I do on it. I didn't ask for a pay raise, but if someone wants to suggest it, I don't have an issue supporting it.

7 minutes ago, Payn said:

Also its not about meta money making, its about the normal way of making money, its been that way for a long time and to just make such a large change in such a short amount of time its kinda unnecessary. If legal factions had their pay drastically reduced im sure there would be a huge uproar from your side.

Its not like there was a massive nerf to crims all of the sudden. You say it was a large change, but while private labs were nerfed, public labs were buffed to compensate. Then to go over the top, ALL other sources of crim money making was buffed so there is still a chance for smaller groups or solos. I think the issue here is the change affected what people were comfortable with. Just because the money making method/meta was changed, doesn't mean its bad. You just need to adapt to the change and find what works. 

[Payn]

13 minutes ago, Bill Breacher said:

Crims goal shouldn't be to fight LEO's. Thats one your not going to gain anything from and you won't win long term (and sometimes short term).

I never said fight, i said go against in terms of like pursuits, or for instance PD rolling into a certain lab that seems to be in their patrol route, sometimes the only way out is a fight in order to reduce the likelyhood of you losing stuff.

[JohnnydaHo]

4 hours ago, Bill Breacher said:

Im confused as to why you are comparing a legal characters money source and a crims source. They do completely different things and it has no relevance to the topic - that being private drug labs. Legal characters are low risk, low reward for their payout, crims are high risk high reward. I dont see how thats a problem? Its not like a LEO main is gonna clock off shift with their salary and go buy a AK and go contest the lab...the way legal characters make money has no impact on a crim what-so-ever. So balance here shouldn't even be brought up.

Also, this should be about the RP opps and the fun while playing and immersing yourself in your character and its development. If you think about nothing but money like this is runescape and you are just looking for the best meta money making method and go grind that for 10 hours, then maybe you are playing the wrong game. 

As for the actual OP, I agree with what others have said. Just yeet the private labs and allow those with the investment to refund a part of it. Its unhealthy for the server and the players alike. 

The biggest complaint against the private labs was people making cash alone in a lab with no rp.  It is valid to compare the legal and crim sides on this. Store/gas station owners do not even need to be in the city and they are making cash. I have seen LEO's parked and tabbed out for extended periods....still making cash. So lets be honest and admit that the actual basis for this is the desire to solidify the server as a PVP server where gangs are in multiple shootouts per day

[Salvador Rivera]

48 minutes ago, JohnnydaHo said:

The biggest complaint against the private labs was people making cash alone in a lab with no rp.  It is valid to compare the legal and crim sides on this. Store/gas station owners do not even need to be in the city and they are making cash. I have seen LEO's parked and tabbed out for extended periods....still making cash. So lets be honest and admit that the actual basis for this is the desire to solidify the server as a PVP server where gangs are in multiple shootouts per day

Here is a point , last 2 years server been trying to fix RP people not we had a lot of DM/KOS reports for people going and shooting on every single corner , at least it was kind a fix , what I see now we going back into black hole again were shootout is normal thing . 

[Clank]

7 hours ago, Bill Breacher said:

Its not like a LEO main is gonna clock off shift with their salary and go buy a AK and go contest the lab...

i mean... 

[xMysticZx]

in my opinion, private labs are now completely useless. for the people saying bin off private labs, they have either 1 been grinding private labs for decades and have millions and dont care, or 2 want to fight more.

it will be harder for official gangs to keep up with drug turfs if the only decent way to cook is in a public lab, which will end up getting bum rushed by the ops... or pd/sd. 

there is now no decent way to make money for crims, now private labs are basically gone new ish players have no good way to make money / get guns other than the safest and boring option.. freelance. I guarantee any new group of players try cooking in a public lab they getting robbed every single time. which results in loss of motivation to play the server. 

most people are saying bin private labs and go full public, but that in my opinion will just cause more "clapping" mentalities, more reports, more bans 

Eventually with everything tuning into public ways to make money.. all your doing is making it IMPOSSIBLE for new players to make their own bread without being held up in a lab, money launder or public chop every 5 mins.

 

MAKE PRIVATE LABS HOW THEY USE TO BE

Edited March 20, 2023 by xMysticZx

[alexalex303]

18 minutes ago, xMysticZx said:

Eventually with everything tuning into public ways to make money.. all your doing is making it IMPOSSIBLE for new players to make their own bread without being held up in a lab, money launder or public chop every 5 mins.

Most other criminal activities were buffed to compensate; you do not need to be earning money every 5 minutes, the goal of being on the server should be interaction, not assets. 

[Mikazuki Ueno]

42 minutes ago, xMysticZx said:

in my opinion, private labs are now completely useless. for the people saying bin off private labs, they have either 1 been grinding private labs for decades and have millions and dont care, or 2 want to fight more.

 

I don't fall into either of these categories and I feel like I would be alright with private labs (as they exist today) can be removed. Other ways to make drugs in private (and maybe some of the pending drug update) could be more viable.

[xMysticZx]

27 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

Most other criminal activities were buffed to compensate; you do not need to be earning money every 5 minutes, the goal of being on the server should be interaction, not assets. 

I agree by all means boost server interactions, but for criminals most of those interactions 7 times out of 10 include carrying guns and sometimes shooting, robbing, killing, or chasing someone. How would new players be able to get money to defend themselves against anyone if the only way to make decent money to get cars .. guns .. houses.. cash.. is by public means, they have 0 chance

Edited March 20, 2023 by xMysticZx

[AnakinB]

People like to see progression

[GregoV1]

24 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

Most other criminal activities were buffed to compensate; you do not need to be earning money every 5 minutes, the goal of being on the server should be interaction, not assets. 

Every “interaction” you speak of usually starts with “/s HANDS UP OR YOU WILL BE SHOT.” If you think that is considered roleplay, then I am truly awestruck with that mentality and train of thought, especially from someone who ran a criminal faction and has first hand experience at how gangs fight one another, like GBK vs Immortals. Take that constant conflict between those gangs, and add money and income into the equation, that means there is more frequent fighting, not just because fighting is fun, but because people need to make money so they can keep fighting. 
 

The whole private lab nerf benefited pre-established people with A LOT of money or people who didn’t really cook. The main nerf was towards people who spent a bunch of time grinding months, just to get to about 3 mil just to cook with everything, and even then, they are still negative their money and now have tables that it is just ridiculous to cook on. I personally have stopped cooking in my lab that took me months of grinding just to get a week of use from, and now will not be able to fight against people with tons of heavies and AP from their months of cooking and stashing. 

TLDR; This update brought WAY less roleplay and A LOT more fighting and shootouts because people need to fight to make money and it has already led to multiple DM and other nefarious rule breaks (I could count at least 20+ people that have been banned for stuff that happened at the new lab). At this point, remove private labs and just do refunds for how much that person spent on their equipment so they can at least have fun on the server rather then do construction work again just to get a gun.

[alexalex303]

1 hour ago, GregoV1 said:

-

I don't see why you're bringing GBK into this, I think it's much more relevant that you recently started cooking, and as such have a vested interest in labs staying active. I agree that some interactions are not ideal, but any interaction is better than being locked in a private virtual world.

All players I spoke to have admitted that the city feels more alive now than it did for months, because people are no longer locking themselves in virtual worlds. Look past your own assets, and what's best for the server.

[pooria]

1 hour ago, GregoV1 said:

Every “interaction” you speak of usually starts with “/s HANDS UP OR YOU WILL BE SHOT.” If you think that is considered roleplay, then I am truly awestruck with that mentality and train of thought, especially from someone who ran a criminal faction and has first hand experience at how gangs fight one another, like GBK vs Immortals. Take that constant conflict between those gangs, and add money and income into the equation, that means there is more frequent fighting, not just because fighting is fun, but because people need to make money so they can keep fighting. 
 

The whole private lab nerf benefited pre-established people with A LOT of money or people who didn’t really cook. The main nerf was towards people who spent a bunch of time grinding months, just to get to about 3 mil just to cook with everything, and even then, they are still negative their money and now have tables that it is just ridiculous to cook on. I personally have stopped cooking in my lab that took me months of grinding just to get a week of use from, and now will not be able to fight against people with tons of heavies and AP from their months of cooking and stashing. 

TLDR; This update brought WAY less roleplay and A LOT more fighting and shootouts because people need to fight to make money and it has already led to multiple DM and other nefarious rule breaks (I could count at least 20+ people that have been banned for stuff that happened at the new lab). At this point, remove private labs and just do refunds for how much that person spent on their equipment so they can at least have fun on the server rather then do construction work again just to get a gun.

if making money from other ways get balanced or prices go down this will be all fixed the interaction in the server right now is amazing. but not without a balanced income or prices its just pointless because soon enough even those guys with money you referring to will run out of money not the mention that its really demotivating for whom ever entering crime right now