Private labs being completely murdered.

[Clank]

Private labs did PERMANENT irreversible damage to the economy of  the server. For no reason NO reason should you AFKing in a room for multiple hours in a day on a roleplay server print as much money as private labs did. RP should be the main focus of the server, player interaction. With the amount of money that cooking at private labs pumped in the economy, it should have required constant human interaction with multiple people. Sitting in a locked room all day is not the way.

 

I have a couple of questions for you, What story arc/story line does your character that has your lab need to be printing this much money? Where is this money going to go? How is this money going to progress your characters story?

[John Nut]

7 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

Yes, I agree, the setup is involved, but once its setup and you have the ingredients? You're effectively cut off from everyone, for hours, just spawning money. It's not good. 

I am in favor of having materials spawn at the public labs, this isn't about introducing more risk or making crim harder, it's about promoting interactions. I believe 2019 public labs were some of the best vehicles for criminal interaction, and they should come back.

This I can agree more on.  Yes you do sometimes get cut off after setting up the lab. But not always, it depends on what your play style is. If you want to buy materials from other players like weed or ordering lysergic. Then you still RP interact with people. Or you go plant and pick plants in lab which also oppertunities to RP. 

I understand and I can somewhat agree with what the intentions and goals are, but I dissagree with how its being done.  This new private lab "nerf" is not how to do it in my opinion. 

Edited March 15, 2023 by John Nut

[Oli]

Private labs: 0 interaction, afk multitasking, 1% risk, and most importantly and the reason you're making this report, its easy money.

You say the big gangs will smoke you if you go solo, that is correct, and it makes perfect sense.

Maybe dont go solo? Gang up? And no, you dont need to be fully geared to go hold down a lab.

As someone who played the server back when there was no such a thing as private labs, I can guarantee you its way better than private labs meta. The fact @PhenomenalX is +ing public labs and nerfing private labs is enough proof its better.

[Fupii]

7 minutes ago, John Nut said:

You need connections, weeks and months and more to build up cash. Then to use your connections to be able to buy or order this. More RP than most of people running labs will ever do

You can still incorporate these "connections" with this new change. For example, Gang A and Gang B can have a meeting and agree to hold X lab together everyday from 2pm to 4pm. If you come at this discussion with a closed mind and think about the bad side of the update than you're not going to like the change. But think about how much MORE rp can be had with the change that would have been left out if we would've continued with the private labs. 

With that being said, I do think we should allow players to refund the tables. There's no question that there was a lot of money spent on buying the properties along with the materials needed to start cooking in them. This money is now basically gone as private labs aren't worth anymore. 

[PapiTheSaint]

I think removing/nerfing private labs is fine but with a big IF clause attached to it.. Something like Removing private labs is a good idea for RP IF all the other ways of making money are brought up to scratch to not be a complete waste of time (ATMs, Stores etc..)

Removing/Nerfing them so hard right now is a bad idea as there is no fair, viable and fun alternative. In my opinion, go back on these changes to make private labs viable while the developers fix ATMs and Stores etc, whilst this is being done, visit the rules of public labs and make sure it is fair and in line with what the community as a whole want. While yes big gangs should be able to more easily access these public labs but for small groups of 5-10 players encountering 30-40+ very rich and very heavily armed individuals at a public lab make it just not viable at all.

TL;DR - If you want to remove private labs, bring ALL OF THE OTHER money making methods for smaller crims/solo players to a much better level (Considering the current economy right now) and revisit the rules for public labs, then go ahead and do it. I dont think there would be any more complaints from crims if this statement is thoroughly and decisively considered.

[Salvador Rivera]

11 minutes ago, John Nut said:

You been a leader of gangs before. This is just nonsense, joke of the century. You know its more than spawning money inside properties xD.  You dont just get a lab delivered to your lap. You need connections, weeks and months and more to build up cash. Then to use your connections to be able to buy or order this. More RP than most of people running labs will ever do :). 

Just like John is saying to buy a property you need at least 1.5-3mill , than you need to find Connections so you bring your self into a Criminal RP , also this is taking a lot of time , 

After then you need to spend like 500-1mill to buy all things for your lab , its like 1 year of hard work and than you maybe start getting profit . 

After than you need to spend a lot of hours in Public lab to grind up 250-1000 plants what can take a week - and after week you go in your lab and start cooking what also taking a lot of times , in the end Criminal don't get more than PD guy . 

10mill what Alex saying , yes if he setup everything and after 1year of hard grinding he made 10mill ''PROFIT'' but ofc its easy to say when you have Store for 20mill and super car maybe ,and you don't care about anything els . Than yea you would like this idea so the poor people stay where they are and Rich people go up day by day ... 

 

 

[John Nut]

Robbing houses is even less RP interactions then cooking 2bh.  I go to dealer buy a house location, go alone to house, rob it and im done. sell the stuff at Pawn and sell cash to dealers. No RP interactions needed. 
BUT cops can get notified and thats one RP scenario.  

Edited March 15, 2023 by John Nut

[Jerzy Mceden]

5 minutes ago, John Nut said:

Robbing houses is even less RP interactions then cooking 2bh.  I go to dealer buy a house location, go alone to house, rob it and im done. sell the stuff at Pawn and sell cash to dealers. No RP interactions needed. 
BUT cops can get notified and thats one RP scenario.  

It is only less interaction if you make it that way , house robberies give the opportunity to involve others.

[Oli]

19 minutes ago, John Nut said:

This I can agree more on.  Yes you do sometimes get cut off after setting up the lab. But not always, it depends on what your play style is. If you want to buy materials from other players like weed or ordering lysergic. Then you still RP interact with people. Or you go plant and pick plants in lab which also oppertunities to RP. 

I understand and I can somewhat agree with what the intentions and goals are, but I dissagree with how its being done.  This new private lab "nerf" is not how to do it in my opinion. 

Texting X for lysergic, transferring the money and picking up the drop isnt enough RP to be able to make all the money private labs provide.

This whole thread is solely made cuz you lost your main source of cash.

A valid suggestion would be to half the prices for heavies as money would be harder to get now.

I'm also against refunding people for the money they spent on their tables as they have already made quadruple that money from those tables.

 

[John Nut]

18 minutes ago, Fupii said:

You can still incorporate these "connections" with this new change. For example, Gang A and Gang B can have a meeting and agree to hold X lab together everyday from 2pm to 4pm. If you come at this discussion with a closed mind and think about the bad side of the update than you're not going to like the change. But think about how much MORE rp can be had with the change that would have been left out if we would've continued with the private labs. 

With that being said, I do think we should allow players to refund the tables. There's no question that there was a lot of money spent on buying the properties along with the materials needed to start cooking in them. This money is now basically gone as private labs aren't worth anymore. 

Gang A and Gang B is a good option  yes.

But personally I wouldnt count that as much more RP. As its Gang A and B waiting for Gang C and D to /s HANDS OR DIE and a shootout happens. 

[Oli]

7 minutes ago, John Nut said:

Robbing houses is even less RP interactions then cooking 2bh.  I go to dealer buy a house location, go alone to house, rob it and im done. sell the stuff at Pawn and sell cash to dealers. No RP interactions needed. 

You going solo is your decision, its not enforced on you.

[John Nut]

Just now, Oli said:

Texting X for lysergic, transferring the money and picking up the drop isnt enough RP to be able to make all the money private labs provide.

This whole thread is solely made cuz you lost your main source of cash.

A valid suggestion would be to half the prices for heavies as money would be harder to get now.

I'm also against refunding people for the money they spent on their tables as they have already made quadruple that money from those tables.

 

I havent cooked in months and Iv used house robberies, banks and chops to make money as im tired of cooking. Just because Im making a thread doesnt mean im butthurt for loosing my income. Which in this case isnt true. Iv chosen to not cook for the past few months as im boored of it.  That doesnt mean I  wont defend private labs. I simply strongly dissagree with this update  

[Oli]

Just now, John Nut said:

Gang A and Gang B is a good option  yes.

But personally I wouldnt count that as much more RP. As its Gang A and B waiting for Gang C and D to /s HANDS OR DIE and a shootout happens. 

How are you even comparing A WHOLE GANG, having relations with another WHOLE GANG, whether that be allying or choosing to become enemies, to being AFK in a different dimension while making mills?

Gang C and D wouldnt /s HANDS OR DIE without a reason and if they do, report them.

[HobGoblin]

@John Nut I assume you just missed the question and you aren't avoiding it because you have no answer, so I'll just ask you again.

You say "This new private lab "nerf" is not how to do it". What way would you do it?

[Oli]

Just now, John Nut said:

I havent cooked in months and Iv used house robberies, banks and chops to make money as im tired of cooking. Just because Im making a thread doesnt mean im butthurt for loosing my income. Which in this case isnt true. Iv chosen to not cook for the past few months as im boored of it.  That doesnt mean I  wont defend private labs. I simply strongly dissagree with this update  

I'm glad we all agree that its boring, now lets agree that its not healthier in any way.

[John Nut]

25 minutes ago, HobGoblin said:

@John Nut I assume you just missed the question and you aren't avoiding it because you have no answer, so I'll just ask you again.

You say "This new private lab "nerf" is not how to do it". What way would you do it?

I dont know by pinpoint how to fix it, I only have ideas and opinions. My opinion is that this is the wrong way to nerf the lab. 
What I can think off that might be a better option is to perhaps

Raising the timer for the drugs, lowering the price slighlty perhaps. 
Keep the refilling timer add sinks back as its kinda nrp not having it. 

Make the drugs actually benefit you in surtain situations which makes people maybe want to sell it to players and not only NPC dealers. like health, speed and etc

Remove the water minigame or keep it if the heating system goes back to normal. 

Vents maybe randomly faulting and you have a timer to fix it or buy new one. making it more easier to get "comped" by PD or other players. (kind of like the cleaning) 

Making it so only 1 drug can go in table at once, making 1 guy needing to water, 1 to fill drugs back and 1 to clean? or something. this is already a team effort and brings interactions with more players. And yes not many but it does, and players in my opinion should be able to choose something that doesnt involve 20-30 people and between close trusted members of gang or whatever. 

Add small details that make you unable to cook alone on 50+ tables. But so a small group/crew can.   Like 1 water, 1 make sure everything is clean and another do something else. A group effort.  If you spend 3-5 million and you are smart enough to not get fucked by police and other crims, why should they now be punished.   with this new update I feel like they are just trying to remove it but stil have it as a thing. If they really dont want private labs on the server, jsut remove them and let us refund all the items. 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by John Nut

[Salvador Rivera]

3 minutes ago, John Nut said:

I dont know by pinpoint how to fix it, I only have ideas and opinions. My opinion is that this is the wrong way to nerf the lab. 
What I can think off being a better option is to perhaps

Raising the timer for the drugs, lowering the price slighlty perhaps. 
Keep the refilling timer add sinks back as its kinda nrp not having it. 

Make the drugs actually benefit you in surtain situations which makes people maybe want to sell it to players and not only NPC dealers. like health, speed and etc

Remove the water minigame or keep it if the heating system goes back to normal. 

Vents maybe randomly faulting and you have a timer to fix it. making it more easier to get "comped" by PD or other players. (kind of like the cleaning) 

Add small details that make you unable to cook alone on 50+ tables. But so a small group/crew can.   Like 1 water, 1 make sure everything is clean and another do something else. A group effort.  If you spend 3-5 million and you are smart enough to not get fucked by police and other crims, why should they now be punished.   with this new update I feel like they are just trying to remove it but stil have it as a thing. If they really dont want private labs on the server, jsut remove them and let us refund all the items. 

 

 

With simply words make it back , how it was 2 days ago , leave this new lab for people who love to run and shoot have more fun 

Edited March 15, 2023 by Salvador Rivera

[John Nut]

1 minute ago, Salvador Rivera said:

With simply words make back how it was 2 days ago , leave this new lab so people who low to run and shoot have more fun 

I can agree with points being said by every part. I understand how many feel its sitting inside property spawning cash. At some points yes it can be like that, specially if you are in an official faction where you can order it yourself or have contacts that will just fix it for you barely no RP interactions done etc.  

There is alot of people cooking on 50+ tables earning 90k an hour. Which is kinda lame. I never did it like this and I did it in a team effort where we was 2-3 people at all times doing it. This was basically only to tripple check nothing was missed and we didnt loose the lab. But adding more interactions that is not just there to delay and nerf us would be better. Like perhaps something of what I mentioned in the last post.  

If private labs would be removed completely, then add back north and sealabb. perhaps combine those labs into another big lab like the new one.   Put the public chop locations in different spots than in the middle of the labs. Change the materials slightly. to either old method or lower the price even more for materials so the loss isnt too big if lost.  Lower weapon prices and do small changes on the server in general balancing it a little more.  

[AtlasOLimbo]

The idea is to try and promote roleplay by not having people sit in private labs for fulltime shift lengths every day.

[David_Levine]

21 minutes ago, GregoV1 said:

Private labs are dead, and I wont be sitting down for 4+ hours constantly playing a minigame to refill bottles of water. Too many legal mains give their opinions on issues that don't affect them and those opinions have normal players in gangs who actually go through this sort of stuff, have their opinions and concerns over looked and suppressed. If the point of the lab buff was to bring more "roleplay," then this was a fail, only brought constant fighting and spam messages of "/s EVERYONE PUT THEIR HANDS UP OR BE SHOT."

Stuff like this should be up for a vote of what people really want on both sides before making major decisions like these, but what do I know, I just play the server and have seen what actually is happening on both sides, but I'm sure the owners who play for an average of 3 hours every month know the real problem and how to fix it.

Agreed. 

Many crims already are going to feel demotivated to even play the server after loosing millions of dollars worth of lab equipment that took months, if not years to gain. There is a lot of good RP that comes with having private labs, as stated from before. I honestly don't know where the "spending hours in a lab every day locked away from RP" is coming from, because I'm pretty sure marijuana plants don't just grow in houses and many Factions don't have the "weight" to just order Lysergic all day for everyone in their faction, so the whole spending hours in a lab all day just doesn't make any sense. Sure, they might spend a couple hours cooking the usual 250 if they have low amount of tables at the beginning of building their lab, but then they have to go and RP to get the marijuana plants, etc. again which takes time and RP. Private Labs are what help criminals in the balance of PD and crims, because right now, banks are risky and don't provide much money as you are mostly robbing it with many other players, so your cut cant sustain you financially and public labs, again are VERY risky to cook in as well, even if you have many people with you.

Private labs in themselves are realistic as well, as private labs are a REAL LIFE thing, so there's no question to if it's realistic or not for RP. If anything, public labs would be non-realistic, but that's a whole different conversation. I feel like staff should let the community decide, as this is a huge change to the server that impacts a lot of people that enjoy this community and the RP.

Edited March 15, 2023 by David_Levine

[Salvador Rivera]

Just now, AtlasOLimbo said:

The idea is to try and promote roleplay by not having people sit in private labs for fulltime shift lengths every day.

So you saying than we should bring more shootouts and robbery by forcing people go to public labs ? 

They will not easy way is to stop playing 

[Bala]

I agree with @alexalex303 in that private labs should just be yeeted from the server. Private Labs were introduced as a response to the violent interactions around public labs but the reality is, that kind of interaction is exactly the sort of interaction that the gangs wanted to be having, whether it's 2020 or 2023. 

The public labs and by extension the chop shop, were the Pier of Criminal RP. If you encountered the wrong faction, you got robbed or worse. But then also, you had factions that would tax you and let you use the facilities if you developed relationships with them. I know this because as a solo criminal, I had that kind of relationship with the likes of Triads and Wanted. If I wanted to chop a car or cook some LSD, I didn't get fucked with so long as I handed some of the money over. Cost of doing business and that whole risk/reward thing people like to mention.

If Division 6 and OTF want to clash over a lab, let them go at it. At least they're fighting for something that makes sense. They're not focusing their attention on cops, they're doing what they should be doing. The only thing maybe faction services should maybe say to factions is don't be so quick to shit on the small time groups/solo crims and try to work with them. Just so the public labs aren't a no-go for solos that are willing to work with the big fish.

As for this water bottle change, change that back. There is already too many instances of that "minigame" on things and it's not an enjoyable game mechanic to use. It's nothing to do with realism and it's just awkward to use. I'd rather take my chances with RNG like the bolt cutters than have to use that.

In terms of private labs, just stick a fork in it, get rid of it and try not to piss more people off in the process. Let them trade in their lab equipment for the import price or like 75% of it. Yes, some lab owners will have made a lot more than their investment but the damage is already done. They've still got properties that won't have a function anymore but having a system that the devs will let you use but don't really want you to use doesn't make any sense to me

If you are going to keep private labs though, why not add like Water Purification Tablets and like 15 Litre Jugs of Water to the 24/7s so they can purify the water (it wouldn't remove the salt but it's a game) and allow you to keep the tables cool in a more efficient way than just filling up bottles with sea water like a schlub.

 

[AtlasOLimbo]

House & property prices have been directly inflated by drug labs. This is extremely obvious when apartment value went down 100-200k when you were unable to cook in apartments, and now properties being actively sold and decreased in price due to lab nerfs. People don't seem to buy properties for their actual purpose, to roleplay in.

[Victor Einhart]

What would happen if two gangs simply said "we'll use these tables, you use those tables" instead of shooting at each other? I was at one of these labs yesterday and there were a bunch of tables there. Who says you can't come to some sort of arrangement? Why is it always "hands or die"?

[AtlasOLimbo]

2 minutes ago, Victor Einhart said:

What would happen if two gangs simply said "we'll use these tables, you use those tables" instead of shooting at each other? I was at one of these labs yesterday and there were a bunch of tables there. Who says you can't come to some sort of arrangement? Why is it always "hands or die"?

Greed, turfs, looking for a reason to shoot are the top three reasons I'm aware of.

Edited March 15, 2023 by AtlasOLimbo